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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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S

Stoney Mason

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
They need to muzzle Biden. That kind of talk about taxes is a surefire way to lose independents and undecideds.



Yea, he also said that Falwell and Roberts were "agents of intolerance" in 2000. Yet his Vice President pick in 2008 is cut from the same cloth.
Click to expand...


While I think Biden as usual is being over-contextualized to fit into a narrative by the media I'm constantly surprised that knowing this, he still falls into some of the traps. Some of that is inevitable for the VP which is an attack dog slot or when reporters ask questions off the cuff but I always wish he was a bit less freewheeling with some of his answers.

That being said, I think Biden should unleash the dogs of hell upon Palin in the debate.
 
3

3rdman

Member
lawblob said:
Amazingly, even Republican hack Glenn Beck isn't trying to pin the financial meltdown on the Dems. His CNN column blames Wall St. itself.

It is truly a mystifying day when even right wing radio blowhards can't find a reason to blame America's problems on libruls.
Click to expand...
They can't help themselves...
fc8hsw.jpg
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Cheebs said:
But the economy has FAR more traction than negative palin news, the economy being discussed helps 100x more.
Click to expand...
In so far as it further undermines another part of Palin's national introduction, I'm glad. If "I can see Russia from my house" becomes a meme for Palin stretching like mad to seem qualified, it will just further erode her favorability ratings. I'm fine with Palin news, as long as it's news about her lying or being stupid. :p
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Time Magazine claims McCain won the week (they annouce it on thursdays since the magazine goes out on fridays). They said Obama won on the economy but overall McCain had the better week. wtf they are insane. :lol
 
S

syllogism

Member
Cheebs said:
Time Magazine claims McCain won the week (they annouce it on thursdays since the magazine goes out on fridays). They said Obama won on the economy but overall McCain had the better week. wtf they are insane. :lol
Click to expand...
To be fair, it's Wednesday to Wednesday and Mccain was still doing pretty well last week.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
GhaleonEB said:
In so far as it further undermines another part of Palin's national introduction, I'm glad. If "I can see Russia from my house" becomes a meme for Palin stretching like mad to seem qualified, it will just further erode her favorability ratings. I'm fine with Palin news, as long as it's news about her lying or being stupid. :p
Click to expand...

With the unfolding economic mess, it really puts into perspective how silly Palin as a candidate is. When banks are failing and the Fed is in a tailspin, the hockey mom shtick starts to get very tiresome to all but the most die-hard Repub voters.

It also makes 'tough talk' about $100 million dollar earmarks looks small-beans when you are now looking at $100 BILLION dollar Fed bank write-offs.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Cheebs said:
Time Magazine claims McCain won the week (they annouce it on thursdays since the magazine goes out on fridays). They said Obama won on the economy but overall McCain had the better week. wtf they are insane. :lol
Click to expand...

I think it's all Ambinder and, yeah, totally ludicrous.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
Odrion said:
holy shit you can't be real
Click to expand...
I love it when Jay firmly states exactly what his viewpoint is and acknowledges its sometimes inevitable consequences. If nothing else, I respect his consistency in the face of certain disapproval. I doubt he converts many to the Libertarian cause, though. I also doubt that he is as forceful and inflexible in real life as on the interwebs, but anonymous obstinacy has its own rewards, I'm sure.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
In so far as it further undermines another part of Palin's national introduction, I'm glad. If "I can see Russia from my house" becomes a meme for Palin stretching like mad to seem qualified, it will just further erode her favorability ratings. I'm fine with Palin news, as long as it's news about her lying or being stupid. :p
Click to expand...

Agreed. The more she becomes a laughable or deceitful figure, the more that helps.
 
D

Deleted member 20415

Unconfirmed Member
JayDubya said:
Trolley problem. Runaway train coming down the line, you can switch the track, it'll kill 1 person instead of 5 people - you do it? Fuck no, says I. You're not responsible for the train being a runaway. You are responsible for redirecting it to kill a man. You won't be charged as a murderer, but morally?
Click to expand...

Great in a textbook or in a theory class... but cast it out a bit more... what would be harder to handle, the moral weight of your action that killed 1 person, or the moral weight of your inaction that killed 5 people?

A slightly different example led me to finally stop pretending and cast off Catholicism.

Priest told me I was immoral for making the following choice:

There's a nuclear bomb that will go off tomorrow - and will kill millions.

You are a married spy and tonight you can sleep with another spy and steal the codes that will deactivate the bomb and save millions.

The priest told me I was immoral for sleeping with the spy.

That was it. Examples like these force you into black and whites man, you know that doesn't exist, no matter how much you cling to it.
 
R

rSpooky

Member
JayDubya and "friends" said:
Discussion on healthcare
Click to expand...
I am of the opinion that healthcare should be free for kids under 18 and for adults over 65.
Anyone with a job should pay for their insurance but in should be afffordable and give good coverage.
People without a job/money should be at least eligble to get healthcare for serious conditions

Now it is not that clear cut how to go about it though, for instance If a child has a parent that has good insurance through work then that is fine and no other free insurance has to be provided ( you can even base it on income level , where if you make less then x amount your kids are insured free and by that save some money) . You can even take a tiny small % of peoples gross income and have it put into some sort of plan/fund whatever for when they retire and then they have full coverage free.

Anyone in between with a job needs to ask themselves, do I rather have that big TV or do I want good healthcare?
I mean my healthcare is pretty good, BUT I pay over 7% of my income to insurance (. So there are many ways to go.


Let me make also clear that (since I just moved to the US 3 years ago) the health CARE in the USA is absolutely fantastic. The problem is the health system in place here, it makes healthcare to expensive, medications to hard to get , to many restrictions to actually get insured for a affordable price etc etc. THAT needs to be changed. Why does it cost 80$ (besides the 100$ visit price) when a doctor puts a arm brace on my arm? which is nothing more then a sleeve with some Velcro straps. I put it on a few times a day , it takes 5 seconds!


anyway, I believe that basic healthcare should be the fundamental right of evey citizen in whatever country you live in. Right now it is just a very lucrative business.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
El_TigroX said:
Great in a textbook or in a theory class... but cast it out a bit more... what would be harder to handle, the moral weight of your action that killed 1 person, or the moral weight of your inaction that killed 5 people?
Click to expand...

The action one. Because you killed someone.

The only person you're morally permitted to sacrifice to save the five is yourself.

The only circumstance that could change anything is if the one is volunteering or morally obliged to be sacrificed for the five.

As for the priest's "while married, would you sleep with a spy to stop a nuke" thing... well, I guess that's entirely between you and your wife, since for me, God doesn't enter into the equation. For starters, your wife should probably understand that you might have to do the sort of thing in the line of duty - if not, you already haven't been honest with her.

On the one hand, you've got the possible breach of a contract, on the other hand, you've got the opportunity to save millions of lives.

This one's kind of like comparing...
"Is lying wrong? If lying is wrong, is it okay to lie to the Gestapo about the Jews hiding in your basement?"
to...
"As one of many Jews hiding in the basement with the Gestapo upstairs, do you suffocate the crying baby?"
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
electricpirate said:
Halperin's a goddamn moron. He's so obssessed with reporting on the punches he never stops to see if they actually land.
Click to expand...
I stopped reading The Page about a month ago. Reading it just got me all worked up over every nasty statement and email firing back and forth between the camps. It was like standing between the two while they shot at each other - every shot was something to freak out about. I prefer the 10,000 foot view these days.

Still get snagged in the day to day crap too much, but pulling back has been healthy.
 
D

Deleted member 20415

Unconfirmed Member
JayDubya said:
The only person you're morally permitted to sacrifice to save the five is yourself.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you there in a perfect world... but if that situation happened to me, I would probably be devastated... and I would stay awake all night - but as a child of utilitarianism... I still believe the 1 person option is the best of a horrible situation.

But, if I could sacrifice myself to save all parties? That's the best option. That wasn't originally part of the discussion.

Jumping in front of a bullet to save someone is the best option.
 
R

rSpooky

Member
JayDubya said:
The action one. Because you killed someone.

The only person you're morally permitted to sacrifice to save the five is yourself.

The only circumstance that could change anything is if the one is volunteering or morally obliged to be sacrificed for the five.
Click to expand...
LOL , that is not the way your own goverment thinks though.

"sacrifice a few to save many" mantra has been around a while
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet you know.
:)


just messing... not gonna get caught up in this discussion.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Odrion said:
I thought people said that Rassmussen changed it's model to the point where McCain will always have the lead.
Click to expand...

Rasmussen changed their likely voter weighting to represent a higher share of Republican voters, and they did so right after the GOP convention. I don't bash them for doing so-certainly McCain's base is more euthanized than before the Palin pick-but he tipped it too much in the wake of the GOP convention/Palin pick bounce, which was IMO folly.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
rSpooky said:
LOL , that is not the way your own goverment thinks though.

"sacrifice a few to save many" mantra has been around a while
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet you know.
:)
Click to expand...

Possibly, yeah. But at the governmental / military level, you're dealing with people that have volunteered for that sort of behavior.

A submarine captain that gives an order to seal off a leaking deck when there's crew still down there is a different situation; the crewmen knew the risks and they swore an oath to do a particular duty. If you were dealing with draftees, it would be different.
 
R

ronito

Member
JayDubya said:
The action one. Because you killed someone.

The only person you're morally permitted to sacrifice to save the five is yourself.

The only circumstance that could change anything is if the one is volunteering or morally obliged to be sacrificed for the five.

As for the priest's "while married, would you sleep with a spy to stop a nuke" thing... well, I guess that's entirely between you and your wife, since for me, God doesn't enter into the equation. For starters, your wife should probably understand that you might have to do the sort of thing in the line of duty - if not, you already haven't been honest with her.

On the one hand, you've got the possible breach of a contract, on the other hand, you've got the opportunity to save millions of lives.

This one's kind of like comparing...
"Is lying wrong? If lying is wrong, is it okay to lie to the Gestapo about the Jews hiding in your basement?"
to...
"As one of many Jews hiding in the basement with the Gestapo upstairs, do you suffocate the crying baby?"
Click to expand...

Right. So there's this sex crazed jewish spy with a bomb...
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Cheebs said:
Time Magazine claims McCain won the week (they annouce it on thursdays since the magazine goes out on fridays). They said Obama won on the economy but overall McCain had the better week. wtf they are insane. :lol
Click to expand...


thats confusing as hell.. what did mccain even do this week? ive barely even heard a peep from him.
 
L

LuCkymoON

Banned
rSpooky said:
I am of the opinion that healthcare should be free for kids under 18 and for adults over 65.
Anyone with a job should pay for their insurance but in should be afffordable and give good coverage.
People without a job/money should be at least eligble to get healthcare for serious conditions

Now it is not that clear cut how to go about it though, for instance If a child has a parent that has good insurance through work then that is fine and no other free insurance has to be provided ( you can even base it on income level , where if you make less then x amount your kids are insured free and by that save some money) . You can even take a tiny small % of peoples gross income and have it put into some sort of plan/fund whatever for when they retire and then they have full coverage free.

Anyone in between with a job needs to ask themselves, do I rather have that big TV or do I want good healthcare?
I mean my healthcare is pretty good, BUT I pay over 7% of my income to insurance (. So there are many ways to go.


Let me make also clear that (since I just moved to the US 3 years ago) the health CARE in the USA is absolutely fantastic. The problem is the health system in place here, it makes healthcare to expensive, medications to hard to get , to many restrictions to actually get insured for a affordable price etc etc. THAT needs to be changed. Why does it cost 80$ (besides the 100$ visit price) when a doctor puts a arm brace on my arm? which is nothing more then a sleeve with some Velcro straps. I put it on a few times a day , it takes 5 seconds!


anyway, I believe that basic healthcare should be the fundamental right of evey citizen in whatever country you live in. Right now it is just a very lucrative business.
Click to expand...
Insurance companies denying claims for the sake of their bottomlines should be illegal as should any hospital denying service to those that need it.
 
R

ronito

Member
JayDubya said:
I can't remember, is this a reference to Munich?
Click to expand...
not anything so fancy. I figured since everyone's dealing with crazy hypotheticals why not take it to the next level of silliness. Really the whole convo was just a few posts away anyway.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
thats confusing as hell.. what did mccain even do this week? ive barely even heard a peep from him.
Click to expand...
It's especially baffling given that they conceded that Obama won on the economy. Given that the economy has dominated political and non-political discussion, I don't understand how this discrepancy can be reconciled.

I'd understand if they claimed that McCain won the economic debate, but what else was there?
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
If anybody hasn't noticed, Obama is 'winning' on both Intrade and the IEM. McCain has been winning lately on Intrade until today. This encourages me more than polls.
 
Xisiqomelir

Xisiqomelir

Member
El_TigroX said:
I don't disagree with you there in a perfect world... but if that situation happened to me, I would probably be devastated... and I would stay awake all night - but as a child of utilitarianism... I still believe the 1 person option is the best of a horrible situation.

But, if I could sacrifice myself to save all parties? That's the best option. That wasn't originally part of the discussion.

Jumping in front of a bullet to save someone is the best option.
Click to expand...

imo in the real situation you'd probably freeze up, the 5 would go splat, and then no one would blame you because who's going to make that kind of snap decision?

beermonkey@tehbias said:
If anybody hasn't noticed, Obama is 'winning' on both Intrade and the IEM. McCain has been winning lately on Intrade until today. This encourages me more than polls.
Click to expand...

Obamaposter.jpg
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Where's the best place to find the latest polls? Like, where will those 12:00 state polls show up the quickest? I'm sick of relying on The Page.
Click to expand...
Pollster lists them fairly quickly.

http://pollster.com/

Very weird set from ARG. Bams tied in Florida, down three in New Hampshire? Wha?

Second poll in a row showing FL tied, though.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/17/palin.investigation/index.html

So Palin's aids are trying to refuse the subpoenas that were put on them for Troopergate. Someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested someone get arrested please god.
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
quadriplegicjon said:
thats confusing as hell.. what did mccain even do this week? ive barely even heard a peep from him.
Click to expand...

He reassured us that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, and I, for one, feel much better.
 
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