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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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K

Krowley

Member
woeds said:
What does being a war hero have to do with anything?
How in the hell is McCain centrist?? Pre 2000 maybe, but have you seen his voting record and political positions the past 8 years?
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By democratic standards he has not been a centrist, but even in the last 8 years he has done a number of things that have pissed off republicans and set him apart from his party. Immigration for example. Also, even when people in his own party were starting to get shaky, he stood firm on the surge, risking great political damage by doing so. No matter how bad you want him to be, McCain is not a standard issue republican. Many people in his own party consider him to be an absolute heretic.

From the perspective of a democrat, I'm sure he is basicaly the devil :lol But that's not the way he's seen in the senate among people that have known him for a long time.

edit// as to the question of being a war hero.. Doesn't courage matter in our presidents? Since when does absolute self sacrifice in service of your country not matter?

He was an extraordinarily courageous POW and he did things that almost nobody can imagine. His story is incredible and it suggest that at his core he is a very special person. It's not something to be thrown aside as unimportant. Presidents need strong character and courage and a love of country.

Ignatz Mouse said:
I disagree with Krowley, but he gets my respect for putting his (here a minority) views out there.
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Thanks for that.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I just bumped into obama'ers on the street trying to get people to register.

Even in new york city.

They got this.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
mj1108 said:
Ugh.. just got this email forwarded from my mom under the subject line "Who am I?" who it seems she also sent to most everyone she knows....



Ugh.
Click to expand...

I served as Undersecretary of the Navy
I served in the Army during wartime
I achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel
I organized a military force and successfully led it to victory in a decisive battle

Who am I?


Sara-- oh wait, lol.


Y2Kev said:
I just bumped into obama'ers on the street trying to get people to register.

Even in new york city.

They got this.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I ran into some here in Dallas today, too. They've definitely got forces even in places with no significance to the election.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Krowley said:
By democratic standards he has not been a centrist, but even in the last 8 years he has done a number of things that have pissed off republicans and set him apart from his party. Immigration for example. Also, even when people in his own party were starting to get shaky, he stood firm on the surge, risking great political damage by doing so. No matter how bad you want him to be, McCain is not a standard issue republican. Many people in his own party consider him to be an absolute heretic.

From the perspective of a democrat, I'm sure he is basicaly the devil :lol But that's not the way he's seen in the senate among people that have known him for a long time.
Click to expand...

Supporting the surge was not an unusal position among Republicans. It was the standard position. The fact that a couple of republicans spoke against the surge was the minority position.
 
Q

Qwerty710710

a child left behind
I was looking at 2004 election results from the following states today. NC,IN, and VA Kerry lost all of them by 10+ points in 2004. I'm trying to figure out how Obama is going to find some way to win at least one of them, while Kerry lost almost every county in those states. How is Obama so close??
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Just got off the phone with my Aunt who lives in Alaska. She sounded pretty anti-Palin. Something along the lines of, "Well, we have a bit of a different opinion of her up here." Then I told her I thought she sounded pretty corrupt and she laughed in agreement.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Qwerty710710 said:
I was looking at 2004 election results from the following states today. NC,IN, and VA Kerry lost all of them by 10+ points in 2004. I'm trying to figure out how Obama is going to find some way to win at least one of them, while Kerry lost almost every county in those states. How is Obama so close??
Click to expand...

A couple reasons. The last four years has seen a rise in Democrats across the nation and a decline in Republican popularity. The prolonged primary season made sure lots of new Democrats registered this year. The get-out-the-vote effort is really, really strong too.
 
S

soul creator

Member
politicians like to say "9/11 changed everything"

...so since we've gone deeper into debt since then, and our financial system seems to be in turmoil, and our military has bee weakened...

does that mean the terrorists have won?
 
C

ChoklitReign

Member
soul creator said:
politicians like to say "9/11 changed everything"

...so since we've gone deeper into debt since then, and our financial system seems to be in turmoil, and our military has bee weakened...

does that mean the terrorists have won?
Click to expand...
Since day one.
 
N

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
trh said:
2zqehk3.png


I wish they had a bigger version of this picture (from the Kos article Loudninja linked)
Click to expand...
Where's our token Asian supporter, huh huh huh ? Obama FAILS :lol
 
K

Krowley

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Supporting the surge was not an unusal position among Republicans. It was the standard position. The fact that a couple of republicans spoke against the surge was the minority position.
Click to expand...

When the surge was first announced, and leading up to the surge there were all sorts of warning signs that republicans were getting ready to bail. They were starting to sniff the winds and preparing to jump ship. Most of them ended up coming down on the side of the surge, but it was obviously a politicaly dangerous move when you look at how bad Iraq was going during that moment. The safe bet seemed to be that the surge would be a total failure. I personaly had very little hope for it, but I was glad to see them give it a chance.

So yeah, it wasn't a minority position, but republicans were shaky, and he was one of the first to question Bush's initial strategy and suggest this route. He was for it, when even Bush was against it, and whether you agree with it or not, certainly things are better now than they were then.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Qwerty710710 said:
I was looking at 2004 election results from the following states today. NC,IN, and VA Kerry lost all of them by 10+ points in 2004. I'm trying to figure out how Obama is going to find some way to win at least one of them, while Kerry lost almost every county in those states. How is Obama so close??
Click to expand...


VA - has been trending Dem. DC suburbs taking over NE VA.

NC - Research triangle and charolette are growing fast. Trransplanted CA'ians.

IN - hit hard by lost jobs, Chicago burbs.

Also, the election was a referendum on security... and all Kerry could offer was "Umm.. Ill do what Bush is doing but magically get international support" He was also inept and had a shit ground game.. He was like the Dem Bob Dole.

Also, Bush/Rove ran a phenomenal campaign and ground game.

Plus the general national momentum towards the dems.
 
N

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Gantz said:
there's one with his bald head to the camera in the front row :lol
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Perhaps, but you cannot be sure. Here's McCain/Palin's new spin: "Obama doesn't care about Asian people !"
 
M

mj1108

Member
NetMapel said:
Perhaps, but you cannot be sure. Here's McCain/Palin's new spin: "Obama doesn't care about Asian people !"
Click to expand...

Don't forget the political pundit commentary: "How can Obama win without the Asian vote?"
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
soul creator said:
politicians like to say "9/11 changed everything"

...so since we've gone deeper into debt since then, and our financial system seems to be in turmoil, and our military has bee weakened...

does that mean the terrorists have won?
Click to expand...

The terrorists lost on 9-11. The Bush administration gave them a victory over the following years.

BTW, anyone who cares about what's in the bailout plan read this:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/why-you-should-hate-treasury-bailout.html

It's easy to understand, and it should not pass as is.

$700 billion is comparable to the hard cost of the Iraq war, bigger than the annual Pentagon budget. And mind you, $700 billion is not the maximum that the Treasury may spend, it's the ceiling on the outstandings at any one time. It's a balance sheet number, not an expenditure limit.
Click to expand...

The above means that the bailout has a limit of $700 billion, which can then be paid back in part, and then spent again to reach $700 billion once more, numerous times. Basically, forget any attempts at erasing the national debt with such a plan. It's like a $700 billion credit card, except the credit is tax payers' money. It's not a one time $700 billion bailout, it is an everlasting $700 billion margin for a continuous bailout.


"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

This puts the Treasury's actions beyond the rule of law. This is a financial coup d'etat, with the only limitation the $700 billion balance sheet figure. The measure already gives the Treasury the authority not simply to buy dud mortgage paper but other assets as it deems fit. There is no accountability beyond a report (contents undefined) to Congress three months into the program and semiannually thereafter. The Treasury could via incompetence or venality grossly overpay for assets and advisory services, and fail to exclude consultants with conflicts of interest, and there would be no recourse.

[...]

So unlike the Resolution Trust Corporation, which took on dodgy assets which had fallen into the FDIC's lap due to the failure of thrifts, and the Home Owners' Loan Corporation, which was established in 1934 after the housing market had bottomed, this program is going to swing into action with the clear but not honestly disclosed intent of buying assets at above market prices when future markets and the analysts with the best track records on forecasting this decline (you can add Robert Shiller, CR at Calculated Risk, and Nouriel Roubini to the list) believe it has considerably further to fall.
Click to expand...
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
mj1108 said:
Don't forget the political pundit commentary: "How can Obama win without the Asian vote?"
Click to expand...


And our right-wing friends' take on it:

"I just don't trust Obama. He's a minority, but he's against other minorities like Asians. That's how hypocritical he is."
 
A

adamsappel

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
What an asshole of a guidance counselor.
Click to expand...
My guidance counselor once said to me, "I'm sorry I can't offer you a beer" as I sat down in his office. I checked with some of the lowest degenerates in school and he never said anything like that to them.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
I think we would be better served with a 500 billion dollar pool to lend to companies in exchange for warrants and CEO's giving up golden parachutes. Charge a high % rate, and they get their warrants and golden parachute back once they pay it back. Miss a payment? We nationalize their ass and liquidate them AIG style.

Give them liquidity, not remove bad debt from there books and put it on us to get that money back later. Make the companies responsible. The Bush plan is too much of gift. We are going to buy their shit debt above market value, and leave them with a healthy company as though they never pulled this sub prime shit.
 
S

SupahBlah

Banned
adamsappel said:
My guidance counselor once said to me, "I'm sorry I can't offer you a beer" as I sat down in his office. I checked with some of the lowest degenerates in school and he never said anything like that to them.
Click to expand...

Is that suppose to be an insult? I wouldn't know. :lol
 
G

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
mj1108 said:
Ugh.. just got this email forwarded from my mom under the subject line "Who am I?" who it seems she also sent to most everyone she knows....



Ugh.
Click to expand...


He was also the first president to call for national health care, and Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Also a badass.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
StoOgE said:
I think we would be better served with a 500 billion dollar pool to lend to companies in exchange for warrants and CEO's giving up golden parachutes. Charge a high % rate, and they get their warrants and golden parachute back once they pay it back. Miss a payment? We nationalize their ass and liquidate them AIG style.

Give them liquidity, not remove bad debt from there books and put it on us to get that money back later. Make the companies responsible. The Bush plan is too much of gift. We are going to buy their shit debt above market value, and leave them with a healthy company as though they never pulled this sub prime shit.
Click to expand...

The thing is, either China chickens out and doesn't object to the current plan, or they start to ask for their due within the next few years. And that can only lead to a confrontation because the US can't pay them back, ever.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
GoutPatrol said:
He was also the first president to call for national health care, and Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Also a badass.
Click to expand...

He also gave a shit about the environment, and became a populist late in life.

His cousin was also the greatest leader in the history of this nation.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
THE REASON HILLARY LOST

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/21/1430406.aspx

Former Hillary Clinton campaign staffers charged Obama with being too inexperienced for the presidency, shifting their support to McCain, on a conference call sponsored by the McCain campaign Friday afternoon.

"Obama really doesn't have the experience,” said Miguel Lausell, senior national political advisor to Hillary Clinton. “We don't know what he's going to be doing. We don't really know where he's coming from, and that's the big difference."

Luchy Secaira, former Sen. Hillary Clinton Delegate-at-Large, said that
stance on women’s issues is all talk and no action. Secaira said that Obama’s rhetoric on the Equal Pay Act is not backed up with hiring practices in his Senate office.

"We need to look no further than Sen. Obama's own senate office, where it's been documented that he pays women less on his staff than males on his staff,” said Secaira. “He talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk."

“The Hispanic community has nothing to fear, because they know John McCain,” Secaira added. “He has fought against his own party on behalf of the Hispanic community and was an integral part in trying to bring forth comprehensive immigration reform.”

Lausell also expressed disappointment that Obama overlooked Clinton as a choice for a vice-presidential running mate, saying this decision was a deal breaker for Hispanic voters who wanted to see her on the ticket.

“He didn't even contemplate Hillary Clinton for vice president,” Lausell said. “I don't really think he's committed to women's future and in terms of Hispanics, … he could have picked Bill Richardson who was fully qualified for the job. But you know, he forgot about him also. So you know, I don't think he takes Hispanics seriously.”

While it's true that Clinton had widespread support from the Hispanic community during the primaries, Obama has held substantial leads over McCain with Hispanics -- greater than even what Kerry had over Bush in 2004 or Gore had in 2000.

Nonetheless, Lausell added that he thought Obama’s candidacy would never measure up to Clinton's because of her proven track record on the issues that affect Hispanic-Americans.

"I think that when you talk about Obama and Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton is the sky and Obama is the sea. And the sea will never reach the sky, you know,” Lausell said. “I'm sure he means well, but his word doesn't match his action. "

The former campaign operatives also said they were outraged with Obama’s latest Spanish-language ad, “Dos Caras,” which linked McCain to Rush Limbaugh’s offensive remarks about the Hispanic community. Secaira said this type of ad contrasts Obama’s image of being an agent of change through unification.

"I don't see anything new about put-down politics …This [ad] proves that he's not a uniter; he's a divider. Sen. Obama, along with the Democratic leadership, has divided the party. And this is his tactic. This is his M.O,” said Secaira. “Otro pero con ese hueso."

Translation: “to another dog with that bone."

Of course, political observers will likely see the former Clintons staffers objections as sour grapes -- they're upset because Clinton lost, and they're out of jobs though they're candidate was that close.
Click to expand...
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Tamanon said:
I honestly have never heard of any of those advisers, and the Clinton organization everyone was known.:lol
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McCain is taking the same advice from them that lost Clinton the nomination.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
StoOgE said:
I think we would be better served with a 500 billion dollar pool to lend to companies in exchange for warrants and CEO's giving up golden parachutes. Charge a high % rate, and they get their warrants and golden parachute back once they pay it back. Miss a payment? We nationalize their ass and liquidate them AIG style.

Give them liquidity, not remove bad debt from there books and put it on us to get that money back later. Make the companies responsible. The Bush plan is too much of gift. We are going to buy their shit debt above market value, and leave them with a healthy company as though they never pulled this sub prime shit.
Click to expand...

Sorry for quoting you a second time but I just saw this on Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a1zdgVfpxvWA&refer=home

Frank Seeks Oversight of Paulson Asset-Purchase Plan, Executive Pay Limits

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank sought authority to oversee and audit Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's $700 billion program to buy bad mortgage investments.

Frank, a Democrat from Massachusetts, proposed that the U.S. Comptroller General ``commence ongoing oversight of the activities and performance'' of the plan, according to legislative language Frank's office presented to Treasury officials today. He also wants limits on compensation of corporate executives who benefit from the program and more work by the Treasury to help mortgage borrowers.

[...]

"It's entirely legitimate to say as a condition of buying the bad debt, we want some compensation restrictions,'' Frank said today. "I don't want the federal taxpayer to be at risk for their bad debt, and then the guy who incurred the debt gets tens of millions of dollars on the way out the door.'
Click to expand...
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
StoOgE said:
Dodd said something similar this morning, I think the Dems are going to force Bush to sign something he doesnt want.
Click to expand...

Pelosi also is pushing for oversight and more help for consumers. We'll see if they can actually get a coalition together for it, or if they'll be bowled over by congressmen fearing being seen as enabling a meltdown by stalling to actually discuss.
 
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