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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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T

Tamanon

Banned
Stoney Mason said:
Pretty much. Was that the one where he said roughly the Mexican immigrants were doing the jobs Americans didn't want and his audience (loudly) disagreed.
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Yeah, that's the one where he offered anyone in the audience a $50/hour job to pick lettuce, and then called them out, saying they couldn't do it, they wouldn't last a day.:lol
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
ShOcKwAvE said:
No, no. Again, you can be as smart and rich as you want.

The idea is that you shouldn't highlight it. You don't compliment yourself or insult others. You simply be who you are and let others talk about your intelligence or wealth.

When politicians talk about those qualities, they appear to put down others whether it's true or not.
Click to expand...

Does this also go for military service or being a POW?

Or Country First?

Or Obama would rather lose a war than lose an election?
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- For the first time since 1932 a presidential election is taking place in the midst of a genuine financial crisis. The reaction of the candidates was revealing.

John McCain, railing against the ``greed and corruption'' of Wall Street, won the first round of the sound-bite war. He came out with a television commercial on the ``crisis'' early on Monday of last week, and over the next three days gave more than a dozen broadcast interviews. He and running mate Sarah Palin would reform Wall Street and regulate the nefarious fat cats that caused this fiasco.

It was a great start. It then went downhill as he stumbled over his record of championing deregulation, claimed the economy was fundamentally strong, and flip-flopped over the government takeover of American International Group Inc.

For his part, Barack Obama didn't come across as passionately outraged and wasn't as omnipresent or as specific.

More revealing, though, was to whom both candidates turned on that panic-ridden morning of Sept. 15, and how the messages evolved before and after that day.

McCain called Martin Feldstein, the well-known Republican economist and Reagan administration adviser, John Taylor of Stanford University, who served in President George W. Bush's Treasury and Carly Fiorina, once the chief executive officer of Hewlett-Packard Co.

Obama called former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, and former Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Larry Summers.

It was a mismatch.

Towering Volcker

Feldstein, for all his intellect, was ineffective in the Reagan administration; then-White House deputy chief of staffDick Darman cut him out of important action. Volcker, first at the Treasury and then as chairman of the Federal Reserve, was a towering figure in every way.

Taylor is a well-regarded academic. In four years as undersecretary of the Treasury, he left few footprints. Summers, as both deputy secretary and secretary, left a lot.

Fiorina is smart and quick; to put it charitably, Rubin will forget more about financial markets than she'll ever know.

When it comes to governance, and either Democrat Obama or Republican McCain will inherit this miserable financial mess, the best guide is who they talked to, what they said, where they've been, and how knowledgeable they are.

Obama's record and earlier speeches belie some of his more populist rhetoric. Yet they also suggest, as do his advisers, a much more activist government role than is likely under a McCain-Palin administration.

Comfortable With Subject

Obama called for the overhaul of the financial-regulatory system and tougher enforcement well before this past week's traumas.

Detached observers who watched him last week, especially in a Bloomberg Television interview, were taken by how conversant and comfortable he was on the subject, despite his thin record. Few detached observers came away with that impression watching the Arizona senator.

Much of the re-regulatory fever focuses on the Federal Reserve and any new agencies created to clean up the fiasco. Central, however, will be a more vigorous Securities and Exchange Commission, or whatever holds that investor-protection function.

McCain displayed a sudden interest in the SEC last week when he demanded that Chairman Chris Cox be fired. When his campaign was asked if the senator had ever criticized the current commission's performance before, they failed to respond.

All For Obama

Tellingly, three former SEC chairmen, a Democrat, Arthur Levitt, and two Republicans, David Ruder and Bill Donaldson, have endorsed Obama. Levitt is a board member of Bloomberg LP, the parent company of Bloomberg News.

Donaldson, who was tapped by Bush to head the SEC, says Obama called him last year about the financial-regulatory problems. He has never heard from McCain.

``Obama has been talking about the need for better financial regulation well before this crisis hit and has done some real thinking about it,'' says Donaldson, a lifelong Republican. ``McCain comes across as someone who suddenly realized changes have to be made.''

There is a case for McCain: it's if you believe in less regulation, that the government should get out of the way and let the markets work their will.

No `Real Understanding'

``I don't think anyone who wants to increase the burden of government regulation and high taxes has any real understanding of economics,'' McCain said this spring at an Inez, Kentucky, town hall meeting, where he also declared ``the fundamentals of our economy are good.''

Until recently, he repeatedly invoked Ronald Reagan's calls for less regulation. He voted for the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley corporate-governance regulations -- then last year said he regretted that vote.

McCain isn't averse to some regulations. He has strongly championed a greater federal role in campaign finance, tobacco and boxing. In each case, he saw a clear villain -- special- interest money, a tobacco product that puts profits ahead of lives, and unscrupulous boxing promoters.

There has been little evidence that prior to last week he ever put financial firms in this category. Although he assailed excessive corporate compensation last week, McCain has opposed a tepid House-passed bill that would give corporate shareholders the right to cast a non-binding vote on compensation of top executives.

Turning to Gramm

The person he has turned to most for counsel on such matters is his ex-Senate colleague Phil Gramm. Gramm is a political Gordon Gekko, a brainy economist with a Darwinian view of markets and public policy.

It's not easy to remember what the financial world looked like 10 days ago much less 10 months ago. Decisions that will be reached after this election will be the most important since the 1930s.

Obama, as more than a few Democrats are complaining, hasn't been as quick, sharp -- or demagogic -- as they would like. McCain has been beset by deeper difficulties: an inchoate and inconsistent message that seems to reflect political exigencies more than principled convictions.

On the financial crisis, last week belonged to Obama.

(Albert R. Hunt is the executive editor for Washington at Bloomberg News. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Click to expand...
.
 
B

Bulla564

Banned
I'm sure it has been said, but if you guys are wondering what is going on (post-9/11, Katrina, Iraq, etc) here it is

THE SHOCK DOCTRIINE (Disaster Capitalism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

The book and film argue that the free market policies of Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics have risen to prominence in countries such as Chile under Pinochet, Russia under Yeltsin, the United States (for example in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina), and the privatization of Iraq's economy under the Coalition Provisional Authority not because they were democratically popular, but because they were pushed through while the citizens of these countries were in shock from disasters or upheavals. It is also claimed that these shocks are in some cases, such as the Falklands war, created with the intention of being able to push through these unpopular reforms in the wake of the crisis.
Click to expand...
 
B

Barrett2

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Elitist is code for "Uppity". Let's not mince words here.
Click to expand...

'Elitist' in general is just a stupid expression that Republicans use against every Democratic candidate.

It is a simple game of reverse psychology. Republicans favor policies that benefit the wealthy, Democrats favor policies that benefit the poor & middle class. By labeling every Democratic candidate as 'elitist,' Republicans shift the focus from substantive policies toward cheap identity politics. It is a tacky and superficial tactic, and they do this kind of shit because thats just what you do when you can't sell your failed policies to people.

And lets be honest, there are millions of hillbilly morons who vote against their economic interests because Republicans have scared them into thinking that libruls will take away their guns & Bibles. In that respect, Obama is 100% correct, small town dopes DO cling to those things to their detriment.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
For the first time in the campaign. Obama campaign plays the 'KEATING 5' Card

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Playing_the_Keating_card.html#comments


OBAMA'S EMAIL TO REPORTERS IN RESPONSE TO SCHMIDT SAYING NY TIMES IS TOO SOFT ON OBAMA
# of probing stories the NY Times has written over the course of the campaign about Barack Obama, his life, his religion, his childhood, his politics, his time in the state senate, his time in the U.S. Senate, his family, his religion, his friends, his fundraising and all other manner of associations: more than 40 (see below)

# of stories the NY Times has written over the course of the campaign about the last major financial regulatory crisis, resulting in a huge bailout, and which John McCain was centrally involved in with his political godfather Charles Keating: 0
Click to expand...
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Rhindle said:
Glad you're amused. You will see a swing back to McCain in the numbers over the next several days
Click to expand...
I do think the national trackers will remain very close, but I really doubt a move to show much if any McCain lead. It took tens of millions in ads and a concerted PR effort attacking Obama's character over the summer capped with his convention bounce to eek out any kind of lead. And that evaporated over the course of one week.

Any real movement over the next week or two will stem from the debates.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
I mean come on, McCain is going national with a silly Rezko ad. Although I love that Ben Smith is already rebutting a Keating Five charge "Well....it's what turned him into a reformer!"
 
R

Rhindle

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I do think the national trackers will remain very close, but I really doubt a move to show much if any McCain lead. It took tens of millions in ads and a concerted PR effort attacking Obama's character over the summer capped with his convention bounce to eek out any kind of lead. And that evaporated over the course of one week.

Any real movement over the next week or two will stem from the debates.
Click to expand...
Oh, I don't expect McCain to take the lead back, but I do expect the numbers to tighten back up (which they already have on 2 of the 4 trackers).

This should be an opportunity for Obama to open up a commanding lead, and he's just not picking up the ball.
 
S

so_awes

Banned
Tamanon said:
I mean come on, McCain is going national with a silly Rezko ad. Although I love that Ben Smith is already rebutting a Keating Five charge "Well....it's what turned him into a reformer!"
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i asked this before, what's up with Ben Smith? he's GOP??
 
S

ShOcKwAvE

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Does this also go for military service or being a POW?

Or Country First?

Or Obama would rather lose a war than lose an election?
Click to expand...

I think you know as well as I do about the double-standards that conservatives have enjoyed for many years now.

Being educated and wealthy is seen as selfish, whereas serving military time is noble and unquestionable (except of course, if you're a Democrat like Kerry). The "POW pass" works no matter how rich his wife is.

Jealousy may also be an unconscious factor. We'd all much rather be smart and rich than trapped in a POW camp. People feel sorry for McCain and respect his service, but look at Obama and don't see someone who has served others. Obviously this viewpoint fails all logic, but face the fact: intellectualism is just not appreciated in modern America as it should be.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Tamanon said:
I mean come on, McCain is going national with a silly Rezko ad. Although I love that Ben Smith is already rebutting a Keating Five charge "Well....it's what turned him into a reformer!"
Click to expand...

He is just saying that is what McCain explains it as. It's a part of McCain's mythology - Smith merely presents it like a journalist.

imo Smith is awesome
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
Door2Dawn said:
Well I figured they weren't going to touch that subject. Since he wasn't really charged with anything.
Click to expand...

neither was Obama in the Rezko trial, its the same measure .


Obama is basically saying if you want to associate me with Rezko when the court procedings proved I am innocent, I can associate you with Charles Keating as well
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Rhindle said:
Oh, I don't expect McCain to take the lead back, but I do expect the numbers to tighten back up (which they already have on 2 of the 4 trackers).

This should be an opportunity for Obama to open up a commanding lead, and he's just not picking up the ball.
Click to expand...
I disagree about that. Obama has been very consistent through this - read the Bloomberg article above, for example. McCain has toggled around several different attempts to get a handle on the news, but he's still stumbling and their campaign today is desperately trying to change the subject with Rezko and Ayres. If McCain thought he had an advantage here he wouldn't be playing distraction politics.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
lawblob said:
'Elitist' in general is just a stupid expression that Republicans use against every Democratic candidate.

It is a simple game of reverse psychology. Republicans favor policies that benefit the wealthy, Democrats favor policies that benefit the poor & middle class. By labeling every Democratic candidate as 'elitist,' Republicans shift the focus from substantive policies toward cheap identity politics. It is a tacky and superficial tactic, and they do this kind of shit because thats just what you do when you can't sell your failed policies to people.

And lets be honest, there are millions of hillbilly morons who vote against their economic interests because Republicans have scared them into thinking that libruls will take away their guns & Bibles. In that respect, Obama is 100% correct, small town dopes DO cling to those things to their detriment.
Click to expand...


The thing I don't understand is why people think these things boil down to right and wrong. I believe Obama's statement was 100% right. Does that change the fact that the statement in itself will turn people against him? No. And that's what McCain is banking on.

This is the entire point of the negative campaigns and why the Republicans are so damn good at it. It's not so much reverse psychology as it is seeding doubt: By calling Obama "elitist", the Pubs are insinuating to their base that 'this black guy thinks he's better than you.' It's the same with all the other lies they've been spewing; they don't have to be true. McCain has no interest in attacking Obama on policy; It's a fight he can't win. All of his ads, and his tactics are attacking Obama.

Now i'm not saying that this is exclusive to Obama, Gore and Kerry went through the same things. However, the hot button issue in Obama's case is his race, so that what the Pubs attack.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
ShOcKwAvE said:
I think you know as well as I do about the double-standards that conservatives have enjoyed for many years now.

Being educated and wealthy is seen as selfish, whereas serving military time is noble and unquestionable (except of course, if you're a Democrat like Kerry). The "POW pass" works no matter how rich his wife is.

Jealousy may also be an unconscious factor. We'd all much rather be smart and rich than trapped in a POW camp. People feel sorry for McCain and respect his service, but look at Obama and don't see someone who has served others. Obviously this viewpoint fails all logic, but face the fact: intellectualism is just not appreciated in modern America as it should be.
Click to expand...


That's my point. It would nice to change so that education is something important and something to not be mocked. That perhaps elitism is more accurately described by a reflection of whom your policies aid and actually have an impact on. That the people that are crazy rich are not the best people to suddenly decide who is the elitist or who is the celebrity. And that Democrats aren't solely a group of latte drinking snobs. As long as Mccain surrogates keep trotting out those attacks I feel Obama surrogates are more than justified in trotting out those counter claims.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Incoming Drudge Headline: Democrats spook market!!!
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I was flipping past the local Devner 'news' radio amKOA and listened for a few minutes about what a sad joke it is the democratic congress had screwed us so bad and then tries to blame it on the private sector. How dare there manage to up-route 6 years of prosperity in such a short time, HOW?
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Stoney Mason said:
That's my point. It would nice to change so that education is something important and something to not be mocked. That perhaps elitism is more accurately described by a reflection of whom your policies aid and actually have an impact on. That the people that are crazy rich are not the best people to suddenly decide who is the elitist or who is the celebrity. And that Democrats aren't solely a group of latte drinking snobs. As long as Mccain surrogates keep trotting out those attacks I feel Obama surrogates are more than justified in trotting out those counter claims.
Click to expand...


And the sad thing is more and more people will need college degrees because jobs in this country are changing.

The low wage earners in the REP party are only hurting themselves.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
You know all those Clinton Supporters who endorsed McCain because Obama didnt make Clinton a VP?

well

Bill Clinton: Hillary Never Wanted to be Obama's VP

ABC News' Russell Goldman Reports: Despite saying she would accept the offer to be vice president, Hillary Clinton never really wanted to be Barack Obama's running mate, her husband former President Bill Clinton told ABC's The View.

"Not really, she didn't," Clinton said in response to a question from host Barbara Walters about whether Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. wanted to join her one-time opponent on the Democratic ticket.
Click to expand...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/
 
JCreasy

JCreasy

Member
artredis1980 said:
For the first time in the campaign. Obama campaign plays the 'KEATING 5' Card

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Playing_the_Keating_card.html#comments


OBAMA'S EMAIL TO REPORTERS IN RESPONSE TO SCHMIDT SAYING NY TIMES IS TOO SOFT ON OBAMA
Click to expand...

dwv3m.gif
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
artredis1980 said:
You know all those Clinton Supporters who endorsed McCain because Obama didnt make Clinton a VP?

well

Bill Clinton: Hillary Never Wanted to be Obama's VP

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/
Click to expand...
Hillary has some work to do. She needs to get out there and not just stump - she needs to make major headlines about addressing her defecting supporters. What's she waiting for? Oh right, it's Hillary.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Stocks are down 360 points now.
Click to expand...
I fucking swear...
My mutual funds are all the money I've ever saved and they have just fucking evaporated. They had just gotten back to above where they were after the last crash. It's the 'anvil parachute' effect, perfectly fitting with this administration's "Looney Tunes" doctrine.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
The Lamonster said:
Hillary has some work to do. She needs to get out there and not just stump - she needs to make major headlines about addressing her defecting supporters. What's she waiting for? Oh right, it's Hillary.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? She's been doing far more than most fallen candidates have. That's the reason there aren't headlines. They're fighting a negative battle, either she stumps, gets local headlines, and no national headlines, or she doesn't, and you get "Dems in strife" headlines everywhere.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
I think Obama realises that Hillary and Bill will never agressively surrogate for him so he knows that if he loses the election and its proven that a considerable minority of her supporters lost him the election, He will do everything in his power to not let Clinton come into power in 2012
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
The Lamonster said:
Hillary has some work to do. She needs to get out there and not just stump - she needs to make major headlines about addressing her defecting supporters. What's she waiting for? Oh right, it's Hillary.
Click to expand...

She's doing fine. There is no reason for Hillary to overly insert herself into this process at his time. Obama is going fine. Palin is very polarizing. The focus should remain on Obama and ideally Biden and the debate will help that.

The anti-Hillary crowd on the board need to simply get over the primaries.
 
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