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[Incognito]

They can hold off as long as they want, Paulson and Bernanke pulling this shit right before the recces is further proof that this plan is a load of bull. Who ruled that it has to done in such a rush fashion and in one exact week coincidentally right before a recess? No one. This is uncharted territory and these assholes are making it up as they go, if anything if it doesn't work they'll still have had bailed out their buddies and the Democrats get left holding the bag on this stupidity. Perfect fodder for this election, "The Democrat congress sided with Bush administration and have ruined the economy".

The Democrats need to play this one really carefully, scrap this blank check shit and work on something that works from the bottom up, these jokers came to congress with the same trickle down philosophy that has fucked us over wanting to give our money to the rich so that they maybe lend it back to us with interest?! FUCK THAT!

Democrats know that they are essentially deciding the political atmosphere onto which the next president will be landing on. They need to think this one really carefully and forget these sky is falling, take my word for it Neocon scum.

Thankfully, it seems as though the Democrats have learned their lesson. This bailout will not proceed unless John McCain voices his support for it. Make him vote for it. Or no deal.

More Lesson Learned:

Pelosi (D-Calif.) has effectively sent the message that if she is going to jump off a cliff to rescue Wall Street, she wants House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and George W. Bush holding her hands when she leaps.

Pelosi made this scenario clear at a lengthy closed-door meeting of House Democrats on Tuesday. Many of those present said they took Pelosi's message to mean that a "majority of the minority" needs to support the bill before she will bring it to the floor.

To get that kind of support, President Bush needs to go on television to speak directly to the public, and get on the phone to rally his fellow Republicans, said House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.).

"If it's a crisis," Clyburn said in a statement, "and we all need to come together, then as leader of this nation, the president needs to take the lead and bring the country together."

The GOP will not skate from this.

 

[Krowley]

Ron Paul's take on this bailout (paraphrased): This whole thing was caused by lowering interest rates (aka interference with the free market) which caused real estate developers to overbuild. The housing crisis is just supply + demand in action, and the repercussions are the natural result of such an adjustment. Any kind of bailout will only distort the market further and create a bigger crisis in the future, as well as crossing a dangerous line. The best thing to do is let everything go to hell and get it over with quickly, otherwise it will just be a slow bleed for 20 years or so, with new bubbles constantly bursting and a shredded dollar as our economy slowly drifts into further ruin. The only people being helped by this bailout are people connected to the real estate industry, because it will help them keep prices over inflated. Regular folks will be screwed because houses will remain too expensive, until it all comes around again

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/Paul.bailout/index.html

I'm not sure how the dems will feel about this view. I know they generally don't agree with Ron Paul, but I think he makes a lot of sense on this. I'm not sure what will happen in the short term if nobody acts, but I have serious doubts about this whole proposal.

 

[Cheebs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqadt9HbCI

 

[thefit]

Thankfully, it seems as though the Democrats have learned their lesson. This bailout will not proceed unless John McCain voices his support for it. Make him vote for it. Or no deal.

With his history on these hot issues, he just won't be present at all. They'll spin it as a conflict of schedules and hope no one notices.

 

[sevenchaos]

Been at work all evening. Anything interesting happen?

 

[CharlieDigital]

I'm not sure how the dems will feel about this view. I know they generaly don't agree with Ron Paul, but I think he makes a lot of sense on this. I'm not sure what will happen in the short term if nobody acts, but I have serious doubts about this whole proposal.

I think Clinton had it right on TDS tonight: after the tech crash, all these investors had tons of money, but nowhere to invest it. They channeled it into housing, thinking that it was "safe" and because the yield was higher than government bonds. In a sense, the housing bubble mirrors the tech bubble. You had a lot of investors giving people money who had no right to be given money (i.e. the dotcoms that folded). Likewise, it's not that there isn't money to invest now, it's that everyone is sitting on the sidelines waiting to invest and trying to figure out the next wave to ride.

The problem all comes back to the greed question: how can I make more money with this pile of money that I have sitting over here?

Ron Paul can blame "interference" with the rates, but the reality is that this whole thing was driven by a hunger for these financial instruments which were perceived to be AAA safe and high yield as well. The only way to feed this hunger was to generate more mortgages. By the way, it's not as if the mortgage rate is directly connected to the Fed Rate. The mortgage rates were manipulated by the lenders to specifically generate more mortgages to package into these securities and feed the machine that they created. Create more mortgages, make more money, even if some of those folks weren't qualified for the mortgages which were given to them; even if they had no possible way of paying the mortgage if the market were to turn.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Is there really any question at this point that Palin will go down as a completely disastrous VP pick? The McCain campaign is damn stupid for keeping her so sequestered. Now she looks to everybody like the vapid airhead that she is, and her favorable numbers and McCain's poll numbers are dropping like a rock with every passing day.

She would still have looked dumb if she tried to answer anything from reporters/journalists, like in the Gibson interview, but at least it wouldn't have been so glaring that she doesn't know shit with how the McCain campaign is so blatantly shielding her from everything and everyone.

The problem is that they're going against the media, basically saying "na na na na, you can't have her!". You guys see on NBC nightly news how they forced cameras out of her meeting with certain UN leaders? Such a terrible idea.

You don't go against the media, particularly in the thick of an election.

 

[mckmas8808]

So being that McCain according to the latest ABC/Washington Post poll McCain has lost his leads with white women, white Catholics, white college educated people, seniors, independents, republican enthusiasm, and moderates.

So will the media talking about why McCain can't close the deal with his own base which consisted on the above groups?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Chickens coming home to roost...

I think the Palin pick by the general public has been deemed an overly political and a rather poor experience one thankfully.

 

[Stinkles]

Been at work all evening. Anything interesting happen?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yup. And if Obama nails McCain on Friday in the debate, he's gonna be in a great position to ride a nice bump. The only problem with this, is the republicans will throw everything but the kitchen sink at him as a result. Some of which may stick. :O

I'll be happy with Obama holding steady after the debate.

 

[thefit]

Pelosi (D-Calif.) has effectively sent the message that if she is going to jump off a cliff to rescue Wall Street, she wants House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and George W. Bush holding her hands when she leaps.

Pelosi made this scenario clear at a lengthy closed-door meeting of House Democrats on Tuesday. Many of those present said they took Pelosi's message to mean that a "majority of the minority" needs to support the bill before she will bring it to the floor.

To get that kind of support, President Bush needs to go on television to speak directly to the public, and get on the phone to rally his fellow Republicans, said House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.).

"If it's a crisis," Clyburn said in a statement, "and we all need to come together, then as leader of this nation, the president needs to take the lead and bring the country together."

The current set of ideas on the table will be to unpalatable for many Democrats and Republicans, this turd is gonna sink. Good, let Wall Street squirm I've had it with these Friedman robots. Reagan is dead and so are his policies. What we need is this congress to grow a goddamn spine and set forth an agenda that leads in the form of a new deal for America. The 80's gave us "greed is good", Yuppies, bad hair metal, AIDS, and Reaganomics. Party is over time for real grown up stuff.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Ok, this is awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojpW-lTn728

This is indeed awesome. Too bad it has so few views.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

This is indeed awesome. Too bad it has so few views.

It's relatively new + his blog uses a different video host site.

 

[Crisis]

Hey guys. Getting back to the ACTUAL issues has this been posted yet?

Obama, Biden helped keep "Bridge to Nowhere" alive

Apparently there was an amendment offered to a massive 2005 federal transportation bill that would have diverted funding from the proposed bridge project to a large area of Louisiana that was damaged by Hurricane Katrina. Obama and Biden both voted against the amendment. I'm trying to figure out why they would have done that.

 

[Talas]

Is there really any question at this point that Palin will go down as a completely disastrous VP pick? The McCain campaign is damn stupid for keeping her so sequestered. Now she looks to everybody like the vapid airhead that she is, and her favorable numbers and McCain's poll numbers are dropping like a rock with every passing day.

She would still have looked dumb if she tried to answer anything from reporters/journalists, like in the Gibson interview, but at least it wouldn't have been so glaring that she doesn't know shit with how the McCain campaign is so blatantly shielding her from everything and everyone.

She's a 'delicate flower', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkemPwvi_qY

 

[speculawyer]

What we need is this congress to grow a goddamn spine and set forth an agenda that leads in the form of a new deal for America. The 80's gave us "greed is good", Yuppies, bad hair metal, AIDS, and Reaganomics. Party is over time for real grown up stuff.

If they are gonna blow money again on some 'stimulus package', let's not have it be so stupid again wherein people get cash and blow it on imported oil and chinese goods.

I'd rather see some 21st Century public works project like an improved electrical grid that can handle wind power better . . . how about get started on V2G technology so we can combine wind power and electric cars.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Chickens coming home to roost...

I think the Palin pick by the general public has been deemed an overly political and a rather poor experience one thankfully.

b..but five kids. shooting moose. thanks but no thanks. hockeyyy. agghhh i'm meltinggg

 

[Incognito]

Hey guys. Getting back to the ACTUAL issues has this been posted yet?

Obama, Biden helped keep "Bridge to Nowhere" alive

Apparently there was an amendment offered to a massive 2005 federal transportation bill that would have diverted funding from the proposed bridge project to a large area of Louisiana that was damaged by Hurricane Katrina. Obama and Biden both voted against the amendment. I'm trying to figure out why they would have done that.

Good thing Obama and Biden aren't running a platform based on the opposition of earmarks, then! It's not about earmarks -- it's about the hypocrisy displayed by both McCain and Palin.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Woo. So Pelosi is basically saying that the Republicans, and more specifically the Bush administration, has to fully endorse the bill in front of the American people before it is passed.

Nice

 

[Fragamemnon]

Yup. And if Obama nails McCain on Friday in the debate, he's gonna be in a great position to ride a nice bump. The only problem with this, is the republicans will throw everything but the kitchen sink at him as a result. Some of which may stick. :O

They sort of lost the capacity to do that when they went to war with the media and shut off all media coverage of their candidates. They have also been, somewhat successfully, framed as 'exagerrators' or even outright liars, so any character attacks will probably be blunted somewhat since they are seen through that prism.

Not to mention Obama is somewhat of a teflon politician anyway.

The internals on that ABC poll are apocalyptic for the McCain campaign. This, combined with the NYT report about Davis, would be huge news tomorrow if it weren't for Hanky Panky and the Subprime Shitpile in Congress. Speaking of that, I can say now that there's a good chance that anything that does get approved is going to be much smaller in scope and much more controlled than Paulson's initial request unless the Bush Administration make their case to the American people.

kos had it right today-we should be able to see and hear the same things that Pelosi, Boehner, Reid, Schumer, and Dodd heard last week in that evening meeting with Hank Paulson. Until the American people understand why Wall Street executives need anything besides 15-to-20 in a pound-you-in-the-ass prison, this bailout is not going to go anywhere.

 

[adamsappel]

You think kids are really that ignorant in this day and age of the internet?

Kids believe that Mountain Dew is a contraceptive.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Since there seems to be a bit of a lull, could someone answer my questions about Karl Rove? Is it true that the man's ultimate goal was a more-or-less permanent Republican majority in all three branches of the US government?

How close did he get to succeeding? What exactly stopped him? Why did he want it in the first place?

 

[Crisis]

Good thing Obama and Biden aren't running a platform based on the opposition of earmarks, then! It's not about earmarks -- it's about the hypocrisy displayed by both McCain and Palin.

Well right but I think the issue is that Obama and Biden have both mocked Palin's support of it when both of them voted against that amendment. The weird part is that 80 other senators voted against it too so there has to be some reason that article isn't bringing up.

 

[thefit]

If they are gonna blow money again on some 'stimulus package', let's not have it be so stupid again wherein people get cash and blow it on imported oil and chinese goods.

I'd rather see some 21st Century public works project like an improved electrical grid that can handle wind power better . . . how about get started on V2G technology so we can combine wind power and electric cars.

I gotta agree, the stimulus gimmick did NOTHING, and just like the last one this $700Billion stimulus is just another gimmick to try to keep the flood waters from breaking out onto Bush and his "legacy"

 

[GhaleonEB]

*stuff*

the fuck?

 

[BobLoblaw]

Since there seems to be a bit of a lull, could someone answer my questions about Karl Rove? Is it true that the man's ultimate goal was a more-or-less permanent Republican majority in all three branches of the US government?

How close did he get to succeeding? What exactly stopped him? Why did he want it in the first place?

They controlled all 3 branches for a few years, so he succeeded for a little while. The rest is strictly my opinion, but the only thing that really stopped it was the Iraq war. If they were able to get it done in a year or two without the fuck ups, the GOP would still control all three branches of government. The 2006 congressional election results was a referendum on the war and the public held the repubs responsible for the disaster by booting a lot of big names from congress. And the reason why he wanted it is easy. Power. That's all anything really boils down to when it comes to politics.

 

[The Chosen One]

Is there really any question at this point that Palin will go down as a completely disastrous VP pick? The McCain campaign is damn stupid for keeping her so sequestered. Now she looks to everybody like the vapid airhead that she is, and her favorable numbers and McCain's poll numbers are dropping like a rock with every passing day.

She would still have looked dumb if she tried to answer anything from reporters/journalists, like in the Gibson interview, but at least it wouldn't have been so glaring that she doesn't know shit with how the McCain campaign is so blatantly shielding her from everything and everyone.

The Palin pick is starting to look more foolish with each passing day. However the debate will be the real deciding factor. Right now expectations for her are VERY low. So it might not take much for her debate performance to be considered a success.

However even if she exceeds expectations, voters still may not be very charitable to Palin given how our economy has become a focal issue. The Gibson interview wasn't terrible but it wasn't great either. And by most accounts the Gibson interview seemed to dampen the enthusiasm for a lot of people.

The other negative side to the Palin pick is that since she's on such a tight leash, they (her and McCain) can't really campaign separately and cover more ground.

The big boost McCain got from women immediately after selecting Palin has pretty much evaporated now. So despite the initial excitement, the gender gap doesn't seem to have closed much.

Finally, you've noticed there hasn't been much talk about Palin being the new "Superstar" of the Republican party anymore. Culture conservatives obviously still love her but the rest of the base seem to have become a bit tepid about her. I think it's mainly because her record on being a "fiscal conservative" seems to have been exaggerated some and her total lack of intellectual curiosity on foreign affairs. Her penchant for nonsensical answers has to be embarrassing to conservative elites as well. I bet she wouldn't make it through a Republican primary anymore.

But like I said, let's see what happens in the debates. Though I think right now the best she can hope for is a wash for McCain overall as a VP pick. The McCain campaign most know this since they're aggressively keeping her shrink wrapped.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Since there seems to be a bit of a lull, could someone answer my questions about Karl Rove? Is it true that the man's ultimate goal was a more-or-less permanent Republican majority in all three branches of the US government?

How close did he get to succeeding? What exactly stopped him? Why did he want it in the first place?

Permanent right wing majority was simply a fantasy concept mixed with the politicalization of any and everything and the frequent use of wedge issues

 

[thefit]

Since there seems to be a bit of a lull, could someone answer my questions about Karl Rove? Is it true that the man's ultimate goal was a more-or-less permanent Republican majority in all three branches of the US government?

How close did he get to succeeding? What exactly stopped him? Why did he want it in the first place?

Yes, this was his goal its why under his control the Republicans moved like tentacles across every spectrum of government and started to hire ideologues and cronies rather than actual professionals. After all, if you infect every branch of government with your poison there is no one to do any oversight or investigate, regulate or prosecute anything being done by the controlling party. Everything from the DOJ to the Federal Elections Committee has been compromised in a lockstep attempt to have a Republican majority for as long as they could get away with it.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

So, the Dems are going to make a majority of the Republicans join this bill, or it dies?

That's the best news on this so far... I kind of feared democrats might implode on this.

 

[thefit]

So, the Dems are going to make a majority of the Republicans join this bill, or it dies?

That's the best news on this so far... I kind of feared democrats might implode on this.

Up or Down!! I hope I get to see Boehner cry on the floor one more time:lol

 

[Krowley]

So, the Dems are going to make a majority of the Republicans join this bill, or it dies?

That's the best news on this so far... I kind of feared democrats might implode on this.

A lot of house republicans seem to be against it for ideological reasons. They may just let it die, but I'm not sure about the actual numbers for and against.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So, the Dems are going to make a majority of the Republicans join this bill, or it dies?

That's the best news on this so far... I kind of feared democrats might implode on this.

I'll believe it when I see it. But it's a start.

Also: lolz at Huffpost:

 

[NullPointer]

Did anybody see AC 360 tonight?

Jesus Christ - there are toll collectors on the dead-end road that leads to the non-existent bridge to nowhere. They interviewed one of them.

The craziness - it doesn't end.

 

[thefit]

I visit Huffingtonpost just for that kind of headline:lol

 

[Fragamemnon]

Finally, you've noticed there hasn't been much talk about Palin being the new "Superstar" of the Republican party anymore. Culture conservatives obviously still love her but the rest of the base seem to have become a bit tepid about her. I think it's mainly because her record on being a "fiscal conservative" seems to have been exaggerated some and her total lack of intellectual curiosity on foreign affairs. Her penchant for nonsensical answers has to be embarrassing to conservative elites as well. I bet she wouldn't make it through a Republican primary anymore.

Assuming McCain is going down in flames (haha I love that pun with him), I don't think Palin's hopes are dashed with it completely. She could prove to be a capable fundraiser and would pose the same sort of problems to GOP primary challengers that Hillary's total command of the women vote did for her. Whether or not she could win the nomination would be in large part due to her competition (again, much like Hillary's chances) and how well they could do in peeling the social conservative vote while creating a near-monolithic block with the social libertarian/fiscal conservative crowd.

The sad part is that the fact that she really is dumb as a stack of bricks would probably not be a big deal.

Of course, this is assuming she doesn't implode in Alaska while under investigation, something that's far from certain at this point.

 

[Fragamemnon]

A lot of house republicans seem to be against it for ideological reasons. They may just let it die, but I'm not sure about the actual numbers for and against.

I think for a lot of them it was sticker shock-$700 billion dollars. That much money is going to make any "fiscal conservative" balk. Not every Republican is a tool in this regard, though by definition they make up for their non-toolery somewhere else.

Some of them are still beyond pissed at the cost of the Iraq War, and XTREME GOP pissed at the actual size of the Medicare perscription drug program, where the Bush Administration lied about the numbers in a big time way. They hold grudges, even if they don't mention it publically.

 

[Cloudy]

LMAO @ the "pre-shock" headline :lol

 

[Fragamemnon]

Schmidt should have another teleconference tomorrow and bash the NYT some more. The newspaper is probably quietly enjoying the fact that since the McCain doesn't see them as a news outlet but an Obama campaign apparatus, they don't really have to report McCain's crew as an actual campaign.

Speaking of the NYT, today's David Brooks column made me weep for humanity.

 

[thefit]

Republicans have plans of their own, cornered rats.

I wish Newt would just STFU.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=9057754C-18FE-70B2-A8C13EAACA75F308

Republican leaders are now hoping Democrats load the legislation with unrelated measures that would give them the political cover to oppose it, members and aides said. At the same time, party leaders are using back channels in the business community to gauge member support for a “clean” bill.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) warned his former colleagues that they would pay a price in November for backing the bailout now — and that John McCain could ride to victory over Barack Obama by persuading voters that the bailout is really the “Obama-Bush plan.” While McCain seemed to move in the other direction Tuesday, Gingrich called the Paulson plan “stupid,” “a really bad idea” and “the kind of corrupt scheme that could have been designed by [Russian Prime Minister] Vladimir Putin.”

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1222236328-jZB96GSq+pwjRmyZq01MTg

Wow, Rev. Wright ads already running in Michigan. I'm in Wayne county and they haven't come on here. Too racially diverse? :lol

 

[WickedAngel]

I gotta agree, the stimulus gimmick did NOTHING, and just like the last one this $700Billion stimulus is just another gimmick to try to keep the flood waters from breaking out onto Bush and his "legacy"

It's easier to read as a farce even when you look at it at the basest terms. Are we really supposed to believe that the architects of a problem that is decades in the making have came up with a fool-proof solution in the span of a fucking week? Please.

 

[PantherLotus]

Are you kidding?

The Newt days, outside of all those silly investigations, were the good-ol days of regular divisive Republicanism, not this modern psycho shit that Rove sold us. Of course, it's harder to sell stupid people on smart politicians like Gingrich.

Imagine. Newt Gingrich might be the only Republican that can save that entire fucking party's credibility. :lol

 

[thefit]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1222236328-jZB96GSq+pwjRmyZq01MTg

Wow, Rev. Wright ads already running in Michigan. I'm in Wayne county and they haven't come on here. Too racially diverse? :lol

Backfire total, McCain is going to look like he's insulting peoples intelligence by wanting to bring back non-issues rather than actually talk about the crisis at hand which has been effecting Michigan for a very long time. That 50 lead is gonna get the McCain people in full stupid mode.

 

[thefit]

Are you kidding?

The Newt days, outside of all those silly investigations, were the good-ol days of regular divisive Republicanism, not this modern psycho shit that Rove sold us. Of course, it's harder to sell stupid people on smart politicians like Gingrich.

Imagine. Newt Gingrich might be the only Republican that can save that entire fucking party's credibility. :lol

Except that since he's been in the private sector he's shown his true self from Bigot to complete neocon opportunist. He ain't coming back EVER. Besides, he makes way more money telling his "friends" what they want to hear.

 

[Fragamemnon]

The Wright ads are being run by a 527. I doubt anyone is going to care.

Now, this might of been a HUGE story had this not already come out in the primary. But at this point it is old news and until McCain himself goes down that route (and I doubt they will, they went with Rezko/Ayers and it went over like a lead balloon) no one is going to care.

edit: Newt Gingrich could have run a Howard Dean style campaign of "grassroots revolt" if he wanted to. He's got a lot of skeletons in that closet of his, but he is like the only "movement conservative" who got out before Bush destroyed movement conservatism. Resurrecting that would have tapped a lot of fire in grassroots Republicans, much more so than any of the other candidates.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Here's something that no one is really talking about, but is definitely out there, from what I can see-the failure of Bush to show any demonstrable leadership in this economic crisis and Paulson's naked money grab could result in a second wave election in the congressional races. We don't have too much polling yet to back this up, but if this thing really does drag out any GOP incumbent with a credible challenger could be in huge trouble.

If this whole thing happened right before a midterm the slaughter of the sitting president's party in Congress would be nothing short of historic.

 

[Cloudy]

the failure of Bush to show any demonstrable leadership in this economic crisis

That's what's so strange about this. The only one of the 3 having actual press-conferences on the issue until today (McCain's first in FOURTY days!) was Obama. Why not just make him prez now?

 

[Fragamemnon]

That's what's so strange about this. The only one of the 3 having actual press-conferences on the issue until today (McCain's first in FOURTY days!) was Obama. Why not just make him prez now?

I get the impression that either Bush doesn't care what happens, or he's trying to stay out of the press in order to keep the public from getting pitchforks and torches and hunting down GOP congressmen.