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[SpeedingUptoStop]

Wouldn't the way the police and U.S. mail are currently run be more 'socialist' than universal health care under obama's plan?

 

[AniHawk]

Maybe some people aren't buying the constant regurgitation of "JUST LIKE BUSH!"

I think polls have shown that more than not agree that McCain's an extension of Bush. It's just that they don't give a shit.

 

[Gaborn]

If we can spent $10 billion dollars a month on a war based on lies, we can definitely afford universal health care.

except that we CAN'T afford either, and just about every dollar of the war is over budgetted and putting us further in the red.

 

[Cooter]

If we can spent $10 billion dollars a month on a war based on lies, we can definitely afford universal health care.

That's the point, we can't afford it right now.

 

[Cloudy]

It's apparently 12,000 Flags so it could become a new email sensation for forwarding.

Yeah but stuff like this will piss off Dems too. You wanna attack Obama not Dems in general in a race this close..

 

[Manmademan]

Tell me about it. Apparently, believing in universal health care makes someone a socialist. :\

exactly. Republicans will parrot the "socialism!!" line ad nauseum, completely ignoring other CLEARLY non socialist countries where universal health care is actually working, and working well.

and as another poster said- police, fire, highways, disaster relief...all of these are OMGSOCIALIST!!!! concepts that everyone takes for granted.

the bottom line is that health care as it stands is broken, and obviously so. Since private industry has failed HARD at making it affordable and accessible, something needs to be done.

 

[laserbeam]

Holy shit wat?

The Highways were built for military reasons specifically for the fact if Invaded forces from one side of the country could haul ass to the other on roads designed specifically for massive military movements.

Yeah but stuff like this will piss off Dems too. You wanna attack Obama not Dems in general in a race this close..

Agreed. It will be interesting to see how it is worded to prevent going after the democrats as a whole and just Obama's people

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think there's a great deal more to it than that. I know you have images of the RNC still dancing in your head, but a generalization is still just a generalization.

People that disapprove of abortions are idiots?
People that are concerned with Obama's lack of experience for the job are idiots?
People who are concerned with tax hikes are idiots?
People who are still waiting for the debates before pledging allegiance are idiots?
People who disagree with socialism on a fundamental level are idiots?

There are a variety of other reasons as to why the polls are close; I'd like to think that the majority of Americans aren't dumb enough to buy the "4 MORE YEARS OF BUSH" crap is one of them. Both candidates are pretty engaging for wildly different reasons. And just because one isn't pulling away right now doesn't speak for the stupidity of America.

The lack of perspective around here, at times, is breathtaking.

"What, not everyone thinks like me? Impossible."

"Abortion doesn't seem to be a problem here on my college campus, why is it such a contentious issue elsewhere? I just don't get it."

Well, this isn't necessarily easy to discuss. Trying to break them down, I will try to argue that a realistic answer to your questions are "no, so long as they have a real rationale."

Abortion? Oh, what a divisive issue. This one is hard to argue, since everyone's opinion and passion for feeling the way they do covers the entire perspective. I highly disagree with the notion that overturning Roe v. Wade deserves to be one of the big issues every election, with people voting solely on that issue, but this is America, and people can vote for the guy with the best haircut if they so choose... so let's just move on.

Lack of experience? Fair enough, but I would like it if this was explained in a well reasoned manner, and it wasn't just a talking point. Meaning, have those citing this as their rationale for not wanting to vote Obama taken into account his positions, and the judgment he's shown? Furthermore, what is the threshold for being "experienced"? If he had waited until 2012 or 2016, would he have been ready then? This argument seems kind of trivial and arbitrary, unless the person making the argument actually has a clear idea of exactly the level of experience they expect from somebody running to be Commander in Chief. Is there a prerequisites checklist anywhere?

Tax hikes? Pretty much the same as above. It's fine if you resent paying more, and wish for a smaller government. However, before you get carried away and write Obama off then and there, can you actually quantify how much more you're going to be paying, and if you can, can you argue against the cause of where this money is intended to go? If you can, I respect your opinion. If you can't, then clearly you're just too eager to buy into fear mongering.

The debates? I'm not going to argue with you there. However, on a personal level, I'm skeptical as to how much the debates really matter in the long run, but we shall see.

Socialism? This kind of goes along with tax hikes. As long as you can define how much more you're having to pay for it, and can explain what's wrong with the program in a way that isn't just skewing it unbelievably by pointing out the worst case scenarios of where the money is going ("I don't mind my money going to help people, but it's crap that crack addicts are getting my hard-earned money to buy more drugs!"), I'll respect your opinion.

Concerning health care, though, I think we need to wait and see what the proposals are to pay for it before writing it off. On a fundamental level, I don't understand how some of the same people who are staunchly pro-life on the abortion issue can then turn around and argue that everyone isn't entitled to health care. Still, I might be willing to bend on it if it was a prohibitively costly (to the point of being impractical) social program. But if the numbers add up, I don't see how universal health care can be perceived as bad.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13205.html

“I know the governor of Alaska has been, you know, saying she is change,” Obama said at a town hall meeting here. “And that is great. She is a skillful politician. But when you [have] been taking all these earmarks when it is convenient and then suddenly you are the champion anti-earmark person.

“That is not change, come on,” Obama continued. “I mean, words mean something. You can’t just make stuff up. You can’t just make stuff up. We have a choice to make and the choice is clear.”

Obama also took on McCain’s inner circle Saturday, saying the presence of former lobbyists at the highest tier of his campaign makes him incapable of meeting his pledge to shut down special interest influence.

“Suddenly, he’s the change agent,” Obama said of McCain. “He says, ‘I’m going to tell those lobbyists that their days in Washington are over.’ Who’s he going to tell? Is he going to tell his campaign chairman who’s one of the biggest corporate lobbyists in Washington? Is he going to tell all the folks who are running his campaign who are the biggest corporate lobbyists in Washington?

“Who is it that he’s going to tell that change is coming?” Obama asked. “I mean, come on, they must think you’re stupid!”

Swingin'!

 

[Chiggs]

i find it funny how you pick and chose what to reply to... but when your bullshit is countered

I'm getting a lot of replies. If there's something you'd like to me to specifically respond to let me know, and I'll do so...even if the results are awkward and fumbling.

But honestly, it seems like you're a little upset and just wanted to get a shot in, so if that's the case....

 

[GhaleonEB]

And that doesn't include the fact that those numbers are just through June 2008. And Obama is only down by 2% points there.

There's something rather short-sighted about only focusing on 2008 numbers.

Here's Florida, November 2004 compared to now:

Voter registrations ebb and flow. In the comparisons I posted before for other states I always referenced the November 2004 number as well as YTD. Dems are gaining in Florida, but they fell behind after the 2004 elections so it's not as rosy as just YTD would have you think.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah but stuff like this will piss off Dems too. You wanna attack Obama not Dems in general in a race this close..

What does the GOP care? They attack me, my mother, and my grandparents every time they say people from small towns have true American values, like we don't even fucking matter. Because to them? We don't.

 

[effzee]

when is the first debate? the 12th?

 

[Stinkles]

The Highways were built for military reasons specifically for the fact if Invaded forces from one side of the country could haul ass to the other on roads designed specifically for massive military movements.

And you think that is the purpose they currently serve? And that is what your federal tax dollars pay for? A tank shortcut?

 

[soul creator]

Wouldn't the way the police and U.S. mail are currently run be more 'socialist' than universal health care under obama's plan?

doesn't matter what actual policies are or what the reality of our current government is. DEMOCRAT=SCARY SOCIALIST POLICIES

and most people, when actually asked about various issues, actually kinda like "socialism"

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13205.html





Swingin'!

Love it!

 

[PhoenixDark]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13205.html


Swingin'!

Nice. I like the way he takes on Palin. No personal attacks or harsh language, just the fucking truth. Also I'd love for Obama to just start listing off lobbyists in McCain's campaign as well

 

[reilo]

The Highways were built for military reasons specifically for the fact if Invaded forces from one side of the country could haul ass to the other on roads designed specifically for massive military movements.

THAT'S WHAT HITLER WANTED TO USE THEM FOR.

Jesus man. We can all agree that was a great military idea for his fucked up agenda, but let's not act like that's why we continue to build highways these days, okay?

 

[AniHawk]

when is the first debate? the 12th?

26th.

 

[Manmademan]

The highway system's invention worldwide was not for you and me. Highways were made for fast and efficient Military movements.

we're not talking about the invention of the highway system since the time of the Romans. We're talking about the current system as it exists in the United States, where its upkeep is 100% publicly funded, and everyone has access regardless of their income bracket.

Your really stretching with the rest considering a "police State" is the logical end goal of facism not socialism

there's a WORLD of difference between having a police force, and existing in a "police state" you know.

once again, the 100% publicly funded police and fire services that everyone has equal access to regardless of social status or income is at it's heart a socialist concept. a CAPITALIST police force would be more akin to the private security services that exist in gated communities- only available to those who can pay for it.

 

[Gary Whitta]

when is the first debate? the 12th?

26th

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13205.html





Swingin'!

“Who is it that he’s going to tell that change is coming?” Obama asked. “I mean, come on, they must think you’re stupid!”

This line is so fucking cash money.

 

[gcubed]

I'm getting a lot of replies. If there's something you'd like to me to specifically respond to let me know, and I'll do so...even if the results are awkward and fumbling.

But honestly, it seems like you're a little upset and just wanted to get a shot in, so if that's the case....

how an optional national healthcare plan is socialist medicine

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

This line is so fucking cash money.

So the guy with 30 years in Washington is telling you change is coming? Come On!

 

[Funky Papa]

Wouldn't the way the police and U.S. mail are currently run be more 'socialist' than universal health care under obama's plan?

It is pretty ironic that the same right wing nuts that get a chubby just looking at the national flag don't realize that their very army is the closest thing to a communist organization.

 

[AniHawk]

There's something rather short-sighted about only focusing on 2008 numbers.

Here's Florida, November 2004 compared to now:

Voter registrations ebb and flow. In the comparisons I posted before for other states I always referenced the November 2004 number as well as YTD. Dems are gaining in Florida, but they fell behind after the 2004 elections so it's not as rosy as just YTD would have you think.

So basically the Democrats didn't show up. I know a few of them broke for Bush, but that wouldn't have constituted a win.

 

[ViperVisor]

Palin has her stuff together in the speech going on now. Doesn't have to look down at the notes.

But is zipping through it and seems more like running through an audio book recording session.

 

[bob_arctor]

Agreed. It will be interesting to see how it is worded to prevent going after the democrats as a whole and just Obama's people

I hope they make a big fucking deal out of it to be honest. The story won't do anything for them save make their base cum in their pants and independents, that noble lot, will be all "What the fuck? Who the fuck cares?".

 

[PhoenixDark]

THAT'S WHAT HITLER WANTED TO USE THEM FOR.

Jesus man. We can all agree that was a great military idea for his fucked up agenda, but let's not act like that's why we continue to build highways these days, okay?

The CIA trained Bin Laden!

 

[Cloudy]

Also, I think all this Iraq stuff could backfire on McCain. It plays well with your base but this war is still VERY unpopular

 

[Chiggs]

and Chiggs, you need to watch "Sicko" and really watch it with an open mind rather than thinking "lol michael moore is a stupid fat liberal".

I don't think Michael Moore is a stupid, fat liberal. I think he's pretty good filmmaker who unfortuntely decides to throw objectivity to the wind when he reaches to make a point. In recent years, he's also become more and more fond of preaching to the choir. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, but it's his choice.

Roger and Me is probably one of the best documentaries I've ever seen, and his brief stint on Fox with TV Nation was amazing.

 

[WickedAngel]

Maybe some people aren't buying the constant regurgitation of "JUST LIKE BUSH!"

Only those that don't know his voting record.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Palin has her stuff together in the speech going on now.

But is running through it and seems more like running through an audiobook recording session.

You gotta remember that the stump speech basically stays the same from event to event so if you follow this stuff it's going to start sounding mind-numbingly repetitive pretty fast.

 

[Cloudy]

Question for you guys. If Obama loses, do you think he'd run again? He has a huge following so I'm sure the Dems would like him to..

 

[reilo]

Well, shit, we all know I-5 along the West Coast was built so that Oregon and Washington can invade California with their tanks, amirite?

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Question for you guys. If Obama loses, do you think he'd run again? He has a huge following so I'm sure the Dems would like him too..

This is what I wanted to know too. i'm pretty sure he would given how young he is and how incredibly strong his followers are. If he loses now, he's a lock for 2012 IMO.

 

[soul creator]

james earl jones is standing behind sarah palin on cnn

 

[laserbeam]

Question for you guys. If Obama loses, do you think he'd run again? He has a huge following so I'm sure the Dems would like him to..

I think an Obama loss would energize the Clinton's to no end and they would hammer the "I told you so."

 

[bob_arctor]

james earl jones is standing behind sarah palin on cnn

Oh shit! Dude's gonna turn into a giant snake and eat her!!

 

[gcubed]

I think an Obama loss would energize the Clinton's to no end and they would hammer the "I told you so."

an obama loss would mean a Clinton ticket in 2012

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Question for you guys. If Obama loses, do you think he'd run again? He has a huge following so I'm sure the Dems would like him to..

No, I think he only has this chance if he doesn't do it then it won't get done ever.

 

[Atrus]

Maybe some people aren't buying the constant regurgitation of "JUST LIKE BUSH!"

Because as I pointed in the previous post, they are idiots who believe John McCain is really a 'Mavrick' that disagrees with Republican policies of the last 8 years, and is not the same servile boot licker who has rejected his own convictions to curry up with to the same puppet masters that inaugurated Bush Jr.

The same candidate who, along with his supporters, tried to ply utterly bankrupt and imbecilic reasons why John McCain and Palin should be the winners of the election in the face of a Democratic convention about issues facing the country.

It compounds the issue when the 'brilliance' of such a candidate resulted in the selection of a no-name, do-nothing politician from nowhere who in addition to those foils possesses neither the intellectual competence or gravitas of leadership.

 

[Gary Whitta]

WTF McCain, celebrating a guy who was the son of illegal immigrants? I thought that was BAD!

 

[Clevinger]

Because as I pointed in the previous post, they are idiots who believe John McCain is really a 'Mavrick' that disagrees with Republican policies of the last 8 years

Ignorance does not equate idiocy. It also doesn't help when they have a news media that perpetuates the false narrative.

 

[gcubed]

id have much less of a problem with a McCain win if it didn't mean a reaffirmation that the way to win in politics in this country is to constantly spew attacks without ever speaking focusing on policies and issues

 

[Chiggs]

how an optional national healthcare plan is socialist medicine

My concern with this is what happens to this plan when costs start to skyrocket and more is being taken out than what's being put in. Federal bail out? Does it cease to be optional at some point? I'm worried about what it would become, I guess. I can't deny the fact that there are so many things wrong with health care in this country today, but reacting out of pure emotion and hastily implementing a plan might not be the best option, either.

I know something has to be done, but the cost could be stratospheric, and I'm worried about that.

 

[polyh3dron]

This is what I wanted to know too. i'm pretty sure he would given how young he is and how incredibly strong his followers are. If he loses now, he's a lock for 2012 IMO.

Primaries would be epic... Obama vs. Hillary: ROUND 2

 

[GhaleonEB]

Primaries would be epic... Obama vs. Hillary: ROUND 2

Hillary: "Obama had his chance. MY TURN."

 

[polyh3dron]

I know something has to be done, but the cost could be stratospheric, and I'm worried about that.

The cost is already stratospheric and people aren't even getting proper care at times even with insurance.

 

[Slurpy]

I am willing to bet that such people are idiots, and only a handful have the intellectual capacity to back up their ideological positions with an educated stance rather than emotional appeals or a sense of traditionalism.

So how can someone be interested in voting for the right or still be uncommitted? It's because they lacked the essence of self-discovery that would have already led them to investigate the candidates prior or they're a slack-jawed traditionalist that has to be told why he should vote away from the party his families always voted for just because. Perhaps they have researched and have based to support their candidate on only one issue, but they're still stupid enough to let one of a subset of lesser issues cloud an election with far reaching consequences if the same tactics used for the last 8 years continue onward.

People who voted for Bush the first time can't really be blamed for their choice. Those that did it a second time are morons, and those leaning to vote for another candidate in the same vein again are imbeciles.

*clap clap*

Awesome post. Agreed.