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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
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Frank the Great
Banned
Cheebs said:
So basically, Monday's poll will see a HUGE boost for McCain, because Obama's +7 will be factored out.
Remember this guys. You can start panicking in advance if you like.
Chiggs said:
I liked and respected McCain before this race. But my opinion of him has changed somewhat now that he's allowed his campaign to turn into the stuff he's been ALWAYS been against.
And I'd say the same thing if Obama suddenly started FLAT-OUT lying (not just the usual political distortions and half-truths) about his opponent to smear their character, policies and accomplishments. It's disgraceful and I'm pissed since I thought we were gonna have a clean-campaign this year (just based on the 2 guys running).
I'm still waiting for the inevitable Pastor Wright ad. Ironically, I think that would be less classless than the crap they pulled at the RNC since it's reality :lol
Manmademan
Member
Chiggs said:
If McCain DOESNT continue to pander to the republican base that desperately wants him to do things like overturn Roe V. Wade, he'll lose their support in 2012, and be out of office. Period.
Even Bush only managed to defeat Kerry by single digits, and his campaign was beyond pathetic. Losing the "base" would have finished him, and it will finish mccain if he doesn't toe the party line once in office.
The RNC won't find another nominee, but you can forget about fundraising from large donors, etc. That he'll need to stay viable. All those funds will simply go towards gaining back lost senate seats, gubernatorial campaigns, and local elections instead.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
Err what? Did I miss something?
Its so sad and so true all at the same time. That is what is so scary with America, that decisions are based on these criteria rather than actual logic and facts.
After watching TDS it only reaffirms that many people at the republicans have no clue what it means to be a republican and are simply joining the masses. The level of intellect was so low it was astounding
WickedAngel said:
I don't think it's wrong to say that McCain has literally gotten little to NO scrutiny by the mainstream media- which is fucking inexcusable. He goes unchallenged on EVERYTHING, even if its utter bullshit. I don't know if they're scared of being alled 'against POWS' or not getting any invitations to his BBQs anymore.. which is why there's such an uproad from the right about the Palin scrutiny. Their ticket has had a golden, free pass since and they got used to that.
Okay, I'm going to be nice and assume that you're just not used to discussing this sort of stuff. I'm not trying to be snide or anything, but the fact that you're bringing WY, ID, and SD into the discussion kinda suggests it. None of them are particularly relevant.Beavertown said:
McCain's only legitimate strategy would be the 2000 map, or something very similar. There's really not a lot of room for error. As someone said, the most important states should be FL, CO, OH, NV, VA. If Obama holds 2000+NH and wins any one of those, it's over.
PA, IA, MI, NH, and NM are all pretty safe by now so McCain doesn't have a lot of room to play offense with. Obama's campaign does consider a few other states to be in play(IN, NC) but if he manages to win those, he'll likely be ahead by such an enormous margin that there'll be no point in discussing electoral math.
I used it a lot in 2004, but frankly 538 is just so much better in terms of filtering the data that I don't bother checking it anymore. I guess it's still worthwhile for apparently tracking house races, though.Cloudy said:
Jenga said:
Michael Moore has been the victim of the most extensive and expensive demonization campaign in history. The sheer weight of force applied to crushing this man is a matter of national shame, in a country that values freedom of speech.
I don't give a fuck what you think about his persona, his weight, or his tone of voice - the man was exercising the most fundamental American right, was largely spot-on about every fact he presented and worked harder than any of the so-called journalists in this Nation of ours. And he was assaulted by a relentless, horrifying campaign that should have been a wake up call to everyone in the US who values that freedom of speech.
And what's worse is that it happened because he made personal enemies and had the ear of the working class, before he was recast as an elitist liberal.
Chiggs
Gold Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
I think there's a great deal more to it than that. I know you have images of the RNC still dancing in your head, but a generalization is still just a generalization.
People that disapprove of abortions are idiots?
People that are concerned with Obama's lack of experience for the job are idiots?
People who are concerned with tax hikes are idiots?
People who are still waiting for the debates before pledging allegiance are idiots?
People who disagree with socialism on a fundamental level are idiots?
There are a variety of other reasons as to why the polls are close; I'd like to think that the majority of Americans aren't dumb enough to buy the "4 MORE YEARS OF BUSH" crap is one of them. Both candidates are pretty engaging for wildly different reasons. And just because one isn't pulling away right now doesn't speak for the stupidity of America.
The lack of perspective around here, at times, is breathtaking.
"What, not everyone thinks like me? Impossible."
"Abortion doesn't seem to be a problem here on my college campus, why is it such a contentious issue elsewhere? I just don't get it."
It's the whole mentatlity that we want to have someone just like us - someone we can have a beer with - rather than someone who can be a leader. Being smart is actually a liability now. That's why Obama was so pissed his IQ scores leaked out. Being smart can cost you votes.Pakkidis said:
The Lamonster
Member
Well said. It's impressive how much of a bad rap he has among even my own (20-something liberal-ish) friends. Unfortunately, I bet that if he wasn't so fat, people would be less apt to think ill of him. Basically, people are morans.OuterWorldVoice said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Lemonz said:
I love Obama. This dude is so cool.
Frank the Great
Banned
Using Moore's own logic, Americans should love him because he is fat and so are most of them.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Chiggs said:
1) No, they are just in the minority
2) Nope.
3) I assume by "people" you mean the rich. While they may well be idiots, I can't know that for sure.
4) Nope.
5) What?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
And that's the terrifying truth. At first I thought McCain was done, but watching some of the convention goers and their reactions it is pretty clear that unless something *really* nasty explodes, the Dems are in for two months of hell.GhaleonEB said:
Screw bridge to nowhere, eBay sales, antiabortion crazyness, authoritarian streaks and bible thumping; they are more than happy with her because she is one of them. And the worst part is that Bush has been empowering those retards for the last eight years. God knows what will happen if McCain wins.
Palin would be the worst pick ever if she had to address an electorate interested in facts and actual issues. But this cleary isn't.
Chiggs said:
Whether you like it or not, Chiggs, most people are actually pretty dumb - Democrats and Republicans alike. It is fairly obvious that a significant portion of the country is going to vote against its interests, because it has been "excited" by the items bolded above.
I have bolded the items that have no real bearing on the reality of the next administration (left or right), since they are items deliberately held in stasis as eternal wedge issues, or they are illusions that we've had marketed to us, or in the case of taxes, affect a portion of the electorate so vanishingly small as to be laughable, unless you think we should adopt the British model of peered aristocracy and give them extra rights, because they are so fabulously wealthy.
That's just my perspective of course. Not very breathtaking.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Fatalah said:
Same here; great chart Incognito
If the Obama camp can get these people out to vote he could change the electoral map and win handily. NC looks especially interesting, as does Florida
Getting out the vote/suppressing the vote are going to be the two things that decide this thing. I love the fact that lawyers/poll officials are going to be sent to even the smallest districts to ensure no bullshit takes place.
Why would you want someone to run the country who you could have a beer with and relate to? I want a smart person, a person who knows what the fuck is going on and how to handle issues. Bill Mahers new rules pretty much sums it up. This 'elitist' bullshit is such garbage. Being an elitist means you THINK you are better than everyone it doesn't mean you actually are.
IF you keep voting for idiots, you are going to get idiot policies. (This was in no reference to anybody)
Chiggs said:
Basically, it comes down to personality for a lot of people. Is he like me? Can I relate to him (or her)? That's where the McCain campaign has shifted. It's worked in the past. Many people are so uneducated and ill-informed, they probably don't know what the issues are enough to make a decision on which candidate is better suited to them.
polyh3dron
Banned
No one is FORCING them to get abortions. If they want the whole country to be forced to follow their dogmatic ideology however, then yes, they are idiots.Chiggs said:
Damn, where's that mega post that owned King_Slender when you need it? Also, Sarah Palin with a 72 year old running mate with a history of cancer says hi.Chiggs said:
They're idiots if they make under 1.5 million or whatever it was, because they'd actually be paying less taxes with Obama. (looks for graph, can't find it but it's been posted 500 times in PoliGAF at least)Chiggs said:
Of course not.Chiggs said:
No, but they're idiots for thinking that Obama is pushing Socialism.Chiggs said:
Frank the Great
Banned
Code:
State R D Other Period
FL 77,196 209,422 26,100 January-JuneFL is not a lost cause.
WickedAngel
Banned
Chiggs said:
It's somewhat jarring that you can argue the reasoning behind that list and follow up by saying that others peoples' lack of perspective is breathtaking.
Abortion is an issue that is up for debate but the middle-class people who are still calling out Obama based on a fear of tax hikes are doing so out of sheer stupidity. Any person that takes the time to actually look at the damned proposals will know that the tax hikes are going to be for the upper class and that the lower classes will save more with Obama. The same can be said of questioning Obama's "executive experience" and following that up with a defense of John McCain.
Waiting for debates is fine. Defining anything that either of these candidates are proposing as socialism is as idiotic as idiocy can get.
Manmademan
Member
Chiggs said:
1.)It's possible to agree with Roe v. Wade and still be against the concept of abortion. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
2.) Anyone concerned about Obama's "lack of experience" should be outright scared to death that the current #2 for office is as shockingly underqualified as she is. This argument is dead and done.
3.) Anyone who doesn't seem to realize this country CAN NOT AFFORD to continue the Bush Tax cuts which McCain intends to make permanent probably is an idiot, yes. That, or horribly misinformed. 95% of the country will see a drop in their taxes under the Obama plan, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. The vast majority of mccain supporters will see no tax hike under obama.
4.) Anyone who is still "waiting for the debates" when any and all information that could possibly be gleaned from them is easily available and has been for months now is..well...let's call them lazy, uninformed, or both. The debates are all about appearances, not position. Anyone who actually gives a shit knows everything they need to know.
5.) The democrats are all socialists??? Who knew??? :lol :lol :lol
There are a lot of reasons why the polls are close. Just not GOOD ones. Just look at the RNC convention. 99% of the arguments against obama were either outright lies, fearmongering, or a disgusting display of smears and personal attacks. Witness the sneers and jeers over the "community organizer" thing, when most of the attending audience had no idea what that job even entailed. They just assumed it was a do nothing fluff job because that's what they were told.
I'm well aware there are people that don't think as I do. This country is full of those who flock to reality tv, and tabloid journalism in droves, and these are the people the current republican campaign is appealing to. those who can be swayed by emotional appeals, mudslinging, and blatant fearmongering.
I realize they're there, but I don't have to pretend I respect them.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
With each passing day, I hope Obama wins more and more.
BTW, I heard that McCain wants to institute our own Czar in Afghanistan. 1. That's true, right? (I got it from cnn) & 2. Has there been a successful government instituted (by any country really) Czar...ever? My impression is these types of guys either ultimately don't connect with the people, and thusly, they don't win re-election, they're incredibly corrupt, or they're exiled/assassinated. That's just my impression, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Poli-GAF is pretty much a Political Science class to me.:lol
BTW, I heard that McCain wants to institute our own Czar in Afghanistan. 1. That's true, right? (I got it from cnn) & 2. Has there been a successful government instituted (by any country really) Czar...ever? My impression is these types of guys either ultimately don't connect with the people, and thusly, they don't win re-election, they're incredibly corrupt, or they're exiled/assassinated. That's just my impression, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Poli-GAF is pretty much a Political Science class to me.:lol
Frank the Great said:
In the bigger picture, it doesn't look like it'll be enough:
Code:
State Difference in change of Other Period Bush-Kerry(04)
registered voters (D-R)
AK 2,628-2836 = [b]-208[/b] 6,825 March-Sep [b]79,864[/b]
AZ 68,480-32,141 = [b]36,339[/b] 4,359 January-Sep [b]210,770[/b]
CA 417,793-46,497 = [b]371,296[/b] 117,313 January-May [b]-1,235,659[/b]
CO 66,516-13,352 = [b]53,164[/b] 23,437 January-July [b]99,523[/b]
DE 4,428-676 = 3,752 2,200 July-Sep [b]-28,492[/b]
FL 209,442-77,196 = [b]132,226[/b] 26,100 January-June [b]-380,978[/b]
IA 69,301-7,515 = [b]61,786[/b] -62,922 January-August [b]10,059[/b]
KS 13,159-1,553 = [b]11,606[/b] -1,704 January-March [b]301,463[/b]
MD 12,338-4,260 = [b]8,078[/b] 5,544 January-July [b]-309,790[/b]
NV 51,547-1,230 = [b]50,317[/b] 7,550 January-August [b]21,500[/b]
NH 1,118-(-1,285) = [b]2,403[/b] 269 June-August [b]-9,274[/b]
NY 102,559-1,526 = [b]101,033[/b] -164 November-March [b]-1,351,713[/b]
NC 171,955-20,363 = [b]151,592[/b] 123,605 January-August [b]435,317[/b]
OR 122,518-(-13,349) = [b]135,867[/b] -? January-July [b] -76,332[/b]
PA 98,137-289 = [b]97,848[/b] 15,907 April-August [b]-144,248[/b]
WY 3,409-1,390 = [b]2,019 [/b] 5,892 January-August [b]-96,853[/b]I'd love to be wrong though.
Not unless they disapprove of other people's abortions in a free country where abortion is LEGAL..
The only experience McCain stresses these days is military experience. Look, he's been a senator longer but Obama seems to have a frikken clue about issues. It's easy to scream about "experience" all day but what about competence? temperament? judgment?
If they make less than $250,000, they are cos they will be getting a tax cut. That's the fact regardless of how many lies the GOP tells..
I don't think there are really many truly "undecided" voters. People are just waiting to find more justification to vote for the guy they subconsciously prefer
I agree that I'm not too thrilled with some of Obama's socialist-looking policies myself but if that one issue makes someone vote McCain even though they're on board with 80% of what Obama represents....yeah, they're an idiot..
One-issue voters are idiots in general though
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