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[Slurpy]

Biden - Bipartasanship

The gulf between these parties methods in explaining things is wide. It's embarrassing. I wish it wasn't the case.

Just image McCain explaining that with that amount of details. Hint: You can't.

 

[CharlieDigital]

There was an excellent editorial by Patrick Bedard in Car and Driver a few months back on this exact issue. Let me post some here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...trick_bedard/turning_asphalt_into_gold_column

Turning Asphalt Into Gold - Column

Selling the Roads Out From Under Us: Tapped-Out Governments Grab for Cash.

BY PATRICK BEDARD
November 2007

Pssst. Hey, buddy, I got this bridge, goes to Brooklyn, make ya a deal.”

Yeah, right—snicker—that’s the oldest con on the planet.

But maybe the joke is over. The city of Chicago, in 2004, really did sell its famed Chicago Skyway Bridge connecting the Dan Ryan Expressway to the Indiana East-West Toll Road. The price was $1.83 billion. Two years later, the state of Indiana sold the Toll Road for $3.85 billion.

To us motorists, roads are about getting where we’re going, but to the buyers and sellers in the above deals, it’s about the money. Chicago and Indiana wanted money right now, for reasons that governments always have for wanting money—passing out bennies to voters. Will they hock the furniture to do it? Just watch ’em.

Why would somebody buy a toll road? There’s only one reason: to capture a steady stream of future income. Pension funds, particularly, have to plan for 50, even 100 years into the future. With interest rates low over the past half-dozen years, they’re grabbing for better returns. They’re looking for income streams that have been poorly managed. Almost anything operated by government fits that definition.

The buyer of both the Chicago Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road was the Australian syndicate Macquarie Bank, as lead partner along with Spanish investment company Cintra SA. Macquarie Bank has been buying roads worldwide. It’s operating the Dulles Greenway, a toll road from Dulles airport to Leesburg, Virginia, and bidding on several more, including an 11-mile highway in Denver.

Cintra has a $1.3 billion deal with Texas to build two segments of the Trans Texas Corridor east of Austin, after which it would collect tolls for 50 years. While interest rates stay low, expect these highway plays to continue.

We’re watching the undoing of the American way. We’ve always counted on our government to lead in building transportation networks. The Midwest was opened in the early 1800s when New York governor De Witt Clinton built the Erie Canal. The nationwide interstate highway system was a vision of the Eisenhower administration.

Should we motorists be alarmed? In some cases, you bet. For example, Texas has been scheming to convert State Highway 121 in Dallas, which was built by taxpayers as a free road, into a private toll road. Earlier this year the Texas House put a two-year kibosh on such “public-private partnerships,” although the politics could change before this sees print. Chicago’s sale of the skyway looks like something only a politician could love.

First, a clarification. The roads mentioned above weren’t actually sold. The deals are written as long-term leases in which the buyer—technically, the lessee—pays the money up front in exchange for the toll income over a stated period—99 years for the Chicago Skyway, 75 years for the Indiana Toll Road.

Why would Chicago pols love the skyway deal? Easy. All politicians dance to this ditty: Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax the man behind the tree. The taxman’s game is to shift the burden out of his district to voters who have no say in his reelection. Skyway toll payers are almost entirely commuters from Indiana. So, in effect, the pols secured a $1.8 billion windfall, about one-third of Chicago’s operating budget, at the expense of Indiana residents.

But what’s that giant sucking sound? Chicago sold a 99-year stream of revenue for payments that will end in 10 years. What will the pols do for cash over the following 89 years? Worse, not one dollar of that income will go to Chicago-area transportation projects. Talk about a complete sellout of motorists. Skyway tolls hadn’t been raised since 1993, but the fine print of the contract allows the new owner to more than double tolls over the next dozen years, and to continue raises for the rest of the lease. (Me: again, screwing the working middle class families...)

Selling roads and bridges isn’t necessarily a bad deal. At least Indiana earmarked all the proceeds from selling the Toll Road for investment in transportation infrastructure. Moreover, tolls were significantly increased in advance of the sale, by 70 percent for two-axle vehicles and a multistep 113 percent for trucks. In effect, this cranked up the income stream immediately, thereby increasing the price a buyer would be willing to pay. The bottom line is more money up front for Indiana.

But watch out for toll increases. Financial analysts calculate that a three-percent annual hike will be necessary to justify the $3.85 billion purchase price. That would raise passenger-car tolls for the road’s full 157 miles from $8 initially to $71 at the end of the lease. The contract allows that much and more, based on various economic-growth scenarios.

Financial analysts say all these infrastructure sales are based on the ability to raise tolls in the future. That’s what makes toll roads attractive investments compared with fixed-rate bonds. But governments could raise tolls, too, if politicians weren’t afraid of angry calls from constituents. Macquarie charges commissions and fees when it repackages these investments for resale to pension funds. Moreover, private investors must rent money to put deals like this together in the first place. Since governments can always rent money cheaper than can privateers—muni bonds pay lower interest rates—the state, acting for the taxpayers, should be able to fund better roads and bridges than private companies can.

Let me propose a simple standard by which we, the people, should decide if selling roads is a good idea. What happens to the money? If it’s plowed back into transportation infrastructure, mobility will be improved. But if it’s a scheme to turn asphalt into pocket money for the politicos, as Chicago did, just say no.

For emphasis:

Since governments can always rent money cheaper than can privateers—muni bonds pay lower interest rates—the state, acting for the taxpayers, should be able to fund better roads and bridges than private companies can

 

[Slurpy]

I'd say it's about even.

You guys are really too smart to think politicians are that different. Regardless of party they all only care about one thing, power. They will do or say whatever it takes to keep it. The fact that the right is beholden to the NRA and the religious right is no different than the left being beholden to trial lawyers and environmentalists. It really isn't.

So that's your contribution? 'All politicians are shit'? Come on. If you honestly don't see a massive golf in the honesty of these 2 parties at the moment, then you're a lost cause. It doesn't take that much critical thinking or analysis to see it. To say they're all bad and they're all the same is just utter intellectual laziness.

 

[Y2Kev]

i don't want civil unions! all the gays would be complacent! I'd suspect they'd rather be curedddd by ms palin! Cure sarah cure ALLALALALALALA SPEAKING IN TONGUES AHALALALA

 

[monchi-kun]

Are you going to reply at all to what everyone else has said about the USPS?

this is the SECOND time he's been called out on it....i think in this same thread too

 

[CharlieDigital]

i don't want civil unions! all the gays would be complacent! I'd suspect they'd rather be curedddd by ms palin! Cure sarah cure ALLALALALALALA SPEAKING IN TONGUES AHALALALA

Activate the Gaborn signal!

 

[RurouniZel]

I love how Republicans are allowed to answer questions with answers that have nothing to do with the question that was asked.

If an elementary school teacher asked you the question "What is four times four?" and you answered "Bumblebee. B-U-M-B-L-E-B-E-E. Bumblebee," they'd look at you like a crazy person and say "Very good, but that's not the question I asked you."

 

[Azrael]

The media has been much more negative towards Obama than McCain. Other than the houses gaffe, they've been pretty soft on him. The media has ignored McCain's connections with Charles Keating while talking a lot about Obama's connections to Rezko and Ayers, and a harmless flub from Michelle Obama being "really proud for the first time" gets wide coveage while Cindy McCain stealing drugs from the needy to feed her drug habit gets almost none.

Some of that is Obama's fault though for pulling too many punches. While he shouldn't be making the attacks himself, he shouldn't be muzzling his supporters from hitting back as hard and dirty as the Republicans are hitting him.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Dude...i replied to this last time...THE USPS IS SELF-SUFFICIENT!!!!

SELF SUFFICIENT

- AKA SELF-SUFFICIENT!!!!

Used to be self-sufficient.

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2007/pr07_012.htm

 

[Zeliard]

The media has been much more negative towards Obama than McCain. Other than the houses gaffe, they've been pretty soft on him. The media has ignored McCain's connections with Charles Keating while talking a lot about Obama's connections to Rezko and Ayers, and a harmless flub from Michelle Obama being "really proud for the first time" gets wide coveage while Cindy McCain stealing drugs from the needy to feed her drug habit gets almost none.

Some of that is Obama's fault though for pulling too many punches. While he shouldn't be making the attacks himself, he shouldn't be muzzling his supporters from hitting back as hard and dirty as the Republicans are hitting him.

Let's not forgot Obama's "bitter" comments and the controversy surrounding Reverend Wright, which got enormous play in the "liberal media" despite their relative triviality.

 

[CharlieDigital]

What it really comes down to is the intensity of the criticism and dirty laundry coming out against Palin.

But guess what? Obama had to go through the same media hounding! Surprise! But it's taken place over several months. Sure, it seems a lot more intense and aggressive when it's all compressed into 4 days, but that's not the fault of the media.

 

[monchi-kun]

Used to be self-sufficient.

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2007/pr07_012.htm

ok, so i read this...and where the hell does it say the government is funding the USPS with taxes subsidies or otherwise...which was your argument to begin with.

we are not arguing profit/loss here we are arguing against what you said that the USPS is funded by taxes

 

[so_awes]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184111&title=john-mccains-big-acceptance

from last night

 

[ComputerNerd]

USPS's losses in 2008 aren't much better.

http://www.foliomag.com/2008/usps-1-1b-loss-could-force-maximum-rate-hike-next-year

1.1 billion dollars in losses year to date.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I just got off the phone with an old college buddy who lives in Tennessee and he just told me about a Domino's Pizza employee who was so upset that his brother had on an Obama shirt that he wrote all these racial slurs and doused the car with gasoline.

He called the Police and they didn't want to take a report because there was "Nothing they could do about it."

Look at the pictures below and you ask yourself if it is worth a report.

Politics aside how much longer are do we as Americans going to be subjected to fear tactics such as these? Americans have fought and died from the beginning of formation of this Union so that we all can all live in peace and thru the pursuit of happiness achieve the American Dream. We have to stop these cowardly attacks on one another. It is 2008 and this still exists? That is crazy to me. Well maybe it's not. So is this small town values?

 

[ComputerNerd]

ok, so i read this...and where the hell does it say the government is funding the USPS with taxes subsidies or otherwise...which was your argument to begin with.

we are not arguing profit/loss here we are arguing against what you said that the USPS is funded by taxes

Those billion-dollar a year losses are going to be coming from somewhere.

 

[RubxQub]

USPS's losses in 2008 aren't much better.

http://www.foliomag.com/2008/usps-1-1b-loss-could-force-maximum-rate-hike-next-year

1.1 billion dollars in losses year to date.

This has to be some kind of joke :lol

Aren't we talking about whether they are being aided by the government or not?

 

[monchi-kun]

USPS's losses in 2008 aren't much better.

http://www.foliomag.com/2008/usps-1-1b-loss-could-force-maximum-rate-hike-next-year

1.1 billion dollars in losses year to date.

so what's it to you? i thought you only railed against things funded by the federal government that you feel shouldn't be. what's the point you are trying to make here?

Those billion-dollar a year losses are going to be coming from somewhere.

well, it's NOT coming from the federal government as you have claimed it was...TWICE

 

[ComputerNerd]

What it really comes down to is the intensity of the criticism and dirty laundry coming out against Palin.

But guess what? Obama had to go through the same media hounding! Surprise! But it's taken place over several months. Sure, it seems a lot more intense and aggressive when it's all compressed into 4 days, but that's not the fault of the media.

For the bold, do you really believe that?

Really?

 

[speculawyer]

Used to be self-sufficient.

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2007/pr07_012.htm

It is self-sufficient you moron. Is GM not self-sufficient just because they posted a loss? They raise stamp prices and then run surpluses for while and eventually they have losses such that they need to raise prices again.

Are you seriously this stupid?

 

[ComputerNerd]

so what's it to you? i thought you only railed against things funded by the federal government that you feel shouldn't be. what's the point you are trying to make here?

USPS should be sold off.

 

[CharlieDigital]

so what's it to you? i thought you only railed against things funded by the federal government that you feel shouldn't be. what's the point you are trying to make here?

well, it's NOT coming from the federal government as you have claimed it was...TWICE

B-U-M-B-L-E-B-E-E

Are you seriously this stupid?

I've been trying to figure this out too :lol

I'd really love to meet some GAFfers in person.

 

[RubxQub]

For the bold, do you really believe that?

Really?

How is it the media's fault that John McCain picked someone who was hardly on anyone's radar and who the nation knows nothing about?

Seriously...should the media just allow the McCain campaign to define Palin for America...or should you know...they do their fucking jobs and report on what they find?

 

[Hellsing321]

USPS should be sold off.

You're doing a lousy job at making it.

 

[speculawyer]

Those billion-dollar a year losses are going to be coming from somewhere.

Yes, they come from the surplus that they have right after when they raise stamp prices.

 

[demon]

For the bold, do you really believe that?

Really?

The media's fault? Fuck, it's the media's job.

 

[monchi-kun]

USPS should be sold off.

because you actually believed that it was funded by your hard earned tax dollars

seriously, stop, there's no way around this...you got caught, be a man and admit you were wrong.

 

[speculawyer]

For the bold, do you really believe that?

Really?

That is the job of the media . . . are you a communist that only wants a state media? WTF?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So is this small town values?

In my experience?

Yes. Small town values are another way of saying bigoted fucks.

Republicans are trying to prey on the fear of the "other". They are dressing it up in words like Uppity, Cosmopolitan, Elite. What it really means is dark, black, negro.

It doesn't shock me one bit that Sarah Palin exemplifies all characteristics of "small town America". White, Christian, racist, and ignorant.

The problem with kids having sex is that they know how to do it safely!

If this works in McCains favor, the little bit of respect I have for my own countrymen will be long gone.

 

[CharlieDigital]

because you actually believed that it was funded by your hard earned tax dollars

seriously, stop, there's no way around this...you got caught, be a man and admit you were wrong.

That is the job of the media . . . are you a communist that only wants a state media? WTF?

The media's fault? Fuck, it's the media's job.

GAF never fails to weed out the stupid :lol

 

[RubxQub]

Anyone interested in Barack's past should kick on CNN.

Doing a walkthrough of his past.

 

[Tamanon]

I just got off the phone with an old college buddy who lives in Tennessee and he just told me about a Domino's Pizza employee who was so upset that his brother had on an Obama shirt that he wrote all these racial slurs and doused the car with gasoline.

He called the Police and they didn't want to take a report because there was "Nothing they could do about it."

Look at the pictures below and you ask yourself if it is worth a report.

Politics aside how much longer are do we as Americans going to be subjected to fear tactics such as these? Americans have fought and died from the beginning of formation of this Union so that we all can all live in peace and thru the pursuit of happiness achieve the American Dream. We have to stop these cowardly attacks on one another. It is 2008 and this still exists? That is crazy to me. Well maybe it's not. So is this small town values?

Yeah there's a lot of that in the south, it's really pretty stupid and just makes me ashamed.

 

[speculawyer]

I just got off the phone with an old college buddy who lives in Tennessee and he just told me about a Domino's Pizza employee who was so upset that his brother had on an Obama shirt that he wrote all these racial slurs and doused the car with gasoline.

He called the Police and they didn't want to take a report because there was "Nothing they could do about it."

Tell him to get the badge number of the cop and go up the chain of command. Yeah, I doubt they'll try to find the perpetrator but there should at least be a report so it goes into the statistics. These cops are trying to make it look like they do a better job than the actually do by preventing crime reports from going into the public record.

The cop that refused to take a report should be disciplined.

If the don't come and take a report then it is time to call the local TV station and have them film the car and do a story about the do-nothing police.

I'm serious. Don't let this stand.

 

[monchi-kun]

Anyone interested in Barack's past should kick on CNN.

Doing a walkthrough of his past.

Prima Guide or Brady Games walkthrough?

 

[RubxQub]

Prima Guide or Brady Games walkthrough?

More like a GameFAQs guide

 

[heliosRAzi]

Prima Guide or Brady Games walkthrough?

Good, I've been trying to get past the Palin Private Jet boss forever! I tried to sell it on eBay but it keeps COMING BACK! ARGH!

 

[Tamanon]

Tell him to get the badge number of the cop and go up the chain of command. Yeah, I doubt they'll try to find the perpetrator but there should at least be a report so it goes into the statistics. These cops are trying to make it look like they do a better job than the actually do by preventing crime reports from going into the public record.

The cop that refused to take a report should be disciplined.

If the don't come and take a report then it is time to call the local TV station and have them film the car and do a story about the do-nothing police.

I'm serious. Don't let this stand.

I'm tellin' ya, depending on the town, that's not going to work at all.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Tell him to get the badge number of the cop and go up the chain of command. Yeah, I doubt they'll try to find the perpetrator but there should at least be a report so it goes into the statistics. These cops are trying to make it look like they do a better job than the actually do by preventing crime reports from going into the public record.

The cop that refused to take a report should be disciplined.

If the don't come and take a report then it is time to call the local TV station and have them film the car and do a story about the do-nothing police.

I'm serious. Don't let this stand.

They have a pretty good idea of who the guy is. They have sent it to their local news stations and to CNN, NBC, FOX, and the rest of the major networks.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

USPS should be sold off.

:lol

 

[monchi-kun]

They have a pretty good idea of who the guy is. They have sent it to their local news stations and to CNN, NBC, FOX, and the rest of the major networks.

the picture with McCain Rules is not gonna go over well with the campaign

 

[Gruco]

Used to be self-sufficient.

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2007/pr07_012.htm

I get the feeling you don't get what you're linking to. This describes a one time loss due to a change to accounting to recognize pension liability.

USPS's losses in 2008 aren't much better.

http://www.foliomag.com/2008/usps-1-1b-loss-could-force-maximum-rate-hike-next-year

1.1 billion dollars in losses year to date.

Wow. Maybe they should respond to that like a business, and I dunno, raise prices or something. Hey, didn't they do that recently?

Those billion-dollar a year losses are going to be coming from somewhere.

1) They don't lose a billion dollars every year. They have performing at a break even level since the 1971 reorganization. You can see this both on the NALC site as well as the statement of net assets in their latest 10Q. USPS financials are available on their site, after all

2) See Note 2 to their latest Q:

"Note 2 – Debt and Related Interest
As of June 30, 2008, our debt consisted of $1,461 million in short-term debt outstanding with the Federal Financing Bank compared with $4,200 million outstanding at September 30, 2007.

We continue to maintain two credit lines with the Federal Financing Bank. One credit line enables us to draw up to $3,400 million with two days notice. The other credit line enables us to draw up to $600 million on the same business day that funds are requested. In addition, we can also use a series of other notes with varying provisions to draw upon with two days notice."

 

[CharlieDigital]

I don't know why I bother researching to fight an argument this stupid, but...

You're too late man; we've already weeded out the stupid (for this round).

Well, unless he's typing up some monster post to prove us all wrong.

 

[maximum360]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/god-is-gonna-st.html

On July 20, 2008, the pastor of Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s home church, Larry Kroon, delivered a sermon called “Sin Is Personal To God.” Kroon, the senior pastor of the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church in Wasilla, Alaska, used the book of Zephanaiah as his reference point for discussing “that great day of the Lord when God will finally bring closure to human history… a day of wrath.” According to Kroon, “all things and all people” are going to bear the brunt of God’s “intense anger.” “There’s anger with God,” he proclaimed. “He takes sin personal.”

Kroon placed Zephaniah in a modern context, warning that the sinful habits of Americans would invite the wrath of God. “And if Zephaniah were here today,” Kroon bellowed, “he’d be saying, ‘Listen, [God] is gonna deal with all the inhabitants of the earth. He is gonna strike out His hand against, yes, Wasilla; and Alaska; and the United States of America. There’s no exceptions here — there’s none. It’s all.’”

Full Audio is here: http://wasillabible.org/sermon_files/2008_Sermons/wbc080720.mp3

Full Transcript here: http://www.wasillabible.org/sermon_files/2008_Transcripts/Sin is Personal to God.doc

Now I fully expect this to played on cable news channels 24/7 for at least the next two weeks.

Sounds eerily similar to another sermon I heard. Too bad there's no video.

 

[Kolgar]

Anyone interested in Barack's past should kick on CNN.

Doing a walkthrough of his past.

Yeah. McCain's was earlier.

Fox News is doing a two-night special on Palin.

During one of the videotaped debates for Alaska governor (or lieutenant governor, I'm not sure), the incumbent and some other man were squabbling at each other and all of a sudden Palin scolded, "You know, guys, Alaskans deserve a better discourse than this."

The two looked up right away and shut up immediately, with one of the men saying, "I agree," and that was that.

Sarah Barracuda indeed. :lol

 

[RubxQub]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/god-is-gonna-st.html



Full Audio is here: http://wasillabible.org/sermon_files/2008_Sermons/wbc080720.mp3

Full Transcript here: http://www.wasillabible.org/sermon_files/2008_Transcripts/Sin is Personal to God.doc

Now I fully expect this to played on cable news channels 24/7 for at least the next two weeks.

Sounds eerily similar to another sermon I heard. Too bad there's no video.

Isn't he just talking about the end of the world?

 

[maximum360]

Isn't he just talking about the end of the world?

Sorry, I forgot. White preacher of a Republican candidate so context matters. ABC didn't care much for context when it broke the Rev. Wright story.

 

[maximum360]

Yeah. McCain's was earlier.

Fox News is doing a two-night special on Palin.

During one of the videotaped debates for Alaska governor (or lieutenant governor, I'm not sure), the incumbent and some other man were squabbling at each other and all of a sudden Palin scolded, "You know, guys, Alaskans deserve a better discourse than this."

The two looked up right away and shut up immediately, with one of the men saying, "I agree," and that was that.

Sarah Barracuda indeed. :lol

I expect it is based on thorough investigation and critique that is purely objective. Fox News is "Fair and Balanced" after all.

 

[Kolgar]

Sorry, I forgot. White preacher of a Republican candidate so context matters. ABC didn't care much for context when it broke the Rev. Wright story.

And what context was that? Rev. Wright is a nutjob and possibly worse.

 

[RurouniZel]

B-U-M-B-L-E-B-E-E

Well met. lol

 

[Tamanon]

And what context was that? Rev. Wright is a nutjob and possibly worse.

Um, the "God Damn America" was in the context of the US which did do evil things that God would not approve of, like financing terror....er....freedom fighters and interfering in other countries. The whole "Chickens coming home to roost" was from a former diplomat's article on our influence and why we foster terrorism.