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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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HuffPo has Obama disputing the AP article (ooops, I look late . . .again).



UPDATE: An Obama campaign official told the Huffington Post that the AP's claims about Obama allowing hiring or firing based on faith are false. From a portion of Obama's speech today:

"Now, make no mistake, as someone who used to teach constitutional law, I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe this partnership will endanger that idea - so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them - or against the people you hire - on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples, and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we'll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work."
The Politico, meanwhile, describes Obama's new plan not as an expansion of Bush's Faith-Based Initiative, but as an effort to tear down what Bush created and establish a new program with a new set of goals:

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) slammed President Bush's faith-based program as "a photo-op" and a failure on Tuesday, and said he will scrap the office and create a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships that would be a "critical" part of his administration.

Obama, unveiling a plan to overhaul and expand Bush's faith-based program during remarks at a community ministry in Zanesville, Ohio, said the White House Office of Community and Faith-Based Initiatives - which Bush founded during his second week in office - "never fulfilled its promise." [...]

Reaching out to evangelicals who are non-plussed by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Obama declared: "I still believe it's a good idea to have a partnership between the White House and grassroots groups, both faith-based and secular. But it has to be a real partnership - not a photo-op. That's what it will be when I'm President. I'll establish a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships."

"The new name will reflect a new commitment," he continued. "This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization chart - it will be a critical part of my administration."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/01/obama-plans-to-expand-bus_n_110140.html
 

Tom_Cody

Member
Jim Webb said:
Let's get the politics out of the military, take care of our military people, or have our political arguments in other areas.

John Kerry said:
I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty.

kerrysalute.jpg
 
siamesedreamer said:
Just trying to lay some ground rules for when Keating Five rears its ugly head.
Or some ground rules on when his wife was stealing drugs from her own charity, both covered it up, and neither suffered any criminal penalty.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Tom_Cody said:

You do realize what he's talking about right? McCain has been pretty guilty of it, speaking as though he represents what folks currently in the military want. I remember an interview where he was challenged on the numbers of soldiers who feel that they aren't making progress in Iraq and should not be there, it was something like 60%. McCain said that was wrong and soldiers believe they are doing right and should stay there until the job is done.
 
Tamanon said:
You do realize what he's talking about right? McCain has been pretty guilty of it, speaking as though he represents what folks currently in the military want. I remember an interview where he was challenged on the numbers of soldiers who feel that they aren't making progress in Iraq and should not be there, it was something like 60%. McCain said that was wrong and soldiers believe they are doing right and should stay there until the job is done.

Tom Cody's point would be relevant only if Jim Webb personally campaigned for John Kerry. As it stands, Webb and Kerry are known to have some frosty feelings towards each other and Webb wasn't even in elected office in 2004.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Incognito said:
Tom Cody's point would be relevant only if Jim Webb personally campaigned for John Kerry. As it stands, Webb and Kerry are known to have some frosty feelings towards each other and Webb wasn't even in elected office in 2004.

I am secretly rooting for McCain to drag Webb into all this as much as possible if only because the GI Bill will inevitably be mentioned. Webb can handle himself pretty well and certainly comes off as no-nonsense and real as anything McCain will say. (I want him to be a VP pick unless Hagel somehow gets the nod).
 

Brannon

Member
Not surprising. I don't support this particular stance, but then again, can't agree 100% all the time.

Fuckin' AP, though. WAY TO GO.
 
Brannon said:
Not surprising. I don't support this particular stance, but then again, can't agree 100% all the time.

Fuckin' AP, though. WAY TO GO.

AP has been terrible recently. I'm not sure if the press is ticked off at Obama or just completely enamored with McCain (though they may not be mutually exclusive).
 
I like McCain's truth squad. One problem: what exactly was said about his record (by Clarke) that was false? How come no one has asked the McCain camp this?
 

Tamanon

Banned
This bullshit has got to stop. I really hope Clark and Webb don't back down. Both of them are right on the money with their statements and the media trying to spin their comments so they can make this race closer is really ruining both of their shots as being Vice President.
 
Amir0x said:
update honeys
:eek:

A recent USA Today/Gallup poll has very bad news for Sen. John McCain: "Two in three Americans concerned that McCain would pursue policies as president that are too similar to what George W. Bush has pursued. Nearly half -- 49% -- say they are 'very concerned' about this."
A new Public Policy Polling survey in Florida finds Sen. Barack Obama narrowly leading Sen. John McCain, 46% to 44%, on the basis of greater support among Hispanics.

Four years ago, President Bush won Hispanic voters in the state, 56% to 44%, but this survey shows Obama leading among them, 51% to 37%.

In addition, Obama is winning every age group except voters over 65, where McCain's considerable 52% to 34% advantage allows him to keep the race competitive overall.
http://politicalwire.com/
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Hootie said:
Wow, they just showed one of Colbert's "Make McCain Exciting" videos on MSNBC. :lol

Sucks Colbert is on vacation
But, that was a fantastic idea the show had, the green background was just asking for it :lol
 

3rdman

Member
The whole offshore drilling endorsement has possibly ruined McCain's chance here in Florida. I've got relatives who point to that as enough of a reason to jump ship...they (and most of us here do) love our beaches and the idea of parking an oil platform offshore is scary beyond all reason. We also rely heavily on our tourist trade and an ecological disaster would easily translate to an economic one as well....just no.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
!!!

Obama and Colin Powell met 2 weeks ago.

"Informal conversation."

No comment from Obama campaign.

:eek:
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Also, the NRA will spend $40mil on anti-Obama ads.

Your 527 groups at work!

McCain: "There's nothing I can do about them... hehehehehehehe"
 

Tamanon

Banned
reilo said:
!!!

Obama and Colin Powell met 2 weeks ago.

"Informal conversation."

No comment from Obama campaign.

:eek:

Colin Powell will be a fucking lynchpin on Obama's national security creds. And he's one that the GOP has no chance whatsoever to shoot down. I can see it coming:p
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Tamanon said:
Colin Powell will be a fucking lynchpin on Obama's national security creds. And he's one that the GOP has no chance whatsoever to shoot down. I can see it coming:p

Please, the GOP will shoot Powell down in a heartbeat. They don't fucking care because they are sleezeballs.
 
maximum360 said:
AP has been terrible recently. I'm not sure if the press is ticked off at Obama or just completely enamored with McCain (though they may not be mutually exclusive).

What is there to be "enamored" with? It doesn't make sense to me.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Nah, you don't understand, Colin Powell would basically be seen by old-school Repubs as validation that McCain really isn't one of them.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
reilo said:
!!!

Obama and Colin Powell met 2 weeks ago.

"Informal conversation."

No comment from Obama campaign.

:eek:

God, that would be so great, not only for Obama, but to see how far the McCain camp would go to downplay his endorsement. The ultimate dopeness would an attack pointing to his farce of a UN presentation making the case for the Iraq War.

"Colin Powell doesn't even know cooked intelligence when he's forced to present it. How can he possibly know what's good for the security of this great nation?"
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
bob_arctor said:
God, that would be so great, not only for Obama, but to see how far the McCain camp would go to downplay his endorsement. The ultimate dopeness would an attack pointing to his farce of a UN presentation making the case for the Iraq War.

"Colin Powell doesn't even know cooked intelligence when he's forced to present it. How can he possibly know what's good for the security of this great nation?"

Or the most obvious one:

"Colin Powell is neglecting his GOP roots and endorsing a liberal simply based on his skin color. What would people say if a liberal general endorsed McCain based on his skin color?!"

Obama vs McCain with Hispanics:

62% - Obama
28% - McCain

+/- 8%
 

CoolTrick

Banned
I haven't posted here since the primaries because I found sites that thankfully had less members entirely up Barack Obama's ass, but aside from stating to the assumptionaire that McCain lost Florida due to his stance on off-shore drilling: that Rasmussen found a majority of Floridians DO support it -- I wanted to post this article.

I'm sure the Obama zealots will again ignore it.

Dominic Lawson: Meet the new Obama, master of the U-turn

Some of those most captivated by the Democrat candidate are now feeling distinctly queasy

"I find comfort in the fact that the longer I'm in politics the less nourishing popularity becomes, that a striving for rank and fame seems to betray a poverty of ambition, and that I am answerable mainly to the steady gaze of my own conscience."


Thus spake Barack Obama. These words appear at the conclusion of the chapter entitled "Politics" in Obama's 2006 book The Audacity of Hope. They also sum up much of what we now know about Obama: a man of stunning articulacy, but also stunning self-regard.

Both characteristics have been indispensable in powering the first-term Illinois senator to the very brink of the presidency. Now, however, some of those who were most captivated by Obama's perorations about his unflinching conscience are feeling distinctly queasy: in the brief weeks since forcing Hillary Clinton to concede, he has made them wonder what, actually, distinguishes his politics from those of the Clintons at their most ruthlessly pragmatic.

Within days of the end of the primary campaign, Obama pledged to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee that he would ensure that Jerusalem would remain "the undivided capital of Israel". Even George Bush had never made such a commitment, so Obama's remarks were criticised not just by the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, but by the State Department itself, as prejudging complex negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. Obama, however, had achieved his domestic objective – he could no longer be labelled by the Republicans as "anti-Israel"

Then, on 19 June, Obama declared that he would opt out of the regulated public campaign financing system, becoming the first presidential candidate since Richard Nixon to choose to raise unlimited private funds, instead. The reason is obvious: he is now raising vastly more than the Republican John McCain, who is committed to taking public funds. The trouble is that Obama had pledged, in writing, that he would remain within the public system, if his opponent did so.

As I say, it's an understandable volte-face: but equally understandable is the reaction of McCain's spokesman: "What's becoming clear in this campaign is that for Senator Obama the most important issue in the election is the political fortunes of Senator Obama. He has demonstrated that there really is no position he holds that isn't subject to change depending on how he calculates it will affect his political fortunes."

Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Except that now some Democrats are saying the same thing, after Obama reneged on another promise, over a matter of genuine constitutional substance. During the long-drawn-out Democrat primary campaign, Obama had constantly reiterated his opposition to President Bush's plans to give retroactive immunity from prosecution to telecommunications companies who assist the government with warrantless wiretaps. This measure was passionately opposed by many Democrats as a clear infringement of the fourth amendment to the Constitution. Last week, Obama reversed his long-held position. Again, the political motivation is clear enough.

One of the few areas in which McCain has a significant poll lead over Obama is that described as "the war against terror". Doubtless, had Obama not performed this sinuous U-turn, then the Republicans would have used his opposition to Bush's legislation as a way of driving home the point. The unresolved issue, however, is this: did Barack Obama really believe the measure was unconstitutional when he opposed it? And if so, is everything negotiable?

Most recently of all, Obama, who up until now had openly backed the strict handgun ban in Washington DC, last week declared his support for a 5 to 4 Supreme Court ruling which overturned the restrictions. Even though his own hometown mayor, Chicago's Richard Daley, and the Los Angeles police chief William Bratton, both criticised the ruling, Obama flip-flopped once more, saying that the judgment "reinforces that if we act responsibly we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe."

Once again, Obama's 180-degree turn is eminently understandable, from an electoral point of view. There are more than 280 million privately owned firearms in the United States and almost half of American households own at least one such weapon. That was why John Kerry, during the last US presidential election, invited the cameras to film him (looking slightly ridiculous) shooting ducks. For Barack Obama, this had become a particular point of weakness, after his unfortunate taped remarks to a dinner of sophisticated San Francisco Democrats about "bitter" Americans who "cling to guns or religion ... as a way to explain their frustrations."

On the other hand, last week Barack Obama also took issue with a different judgment by the Supreme Court, which had struck down the State of Louisiana's law authorising the death penalty for the rape of a child. Obama, who as Illinois senator had opposed the death penalty for gang murders, now explained that he believes Louisiana's death penalty for a crime short of murder "is at least potentially applicable and does not violate our constitution".

It is fascinating, in the light of this particular manoeuvre, to turn again to The Audacity of Hope, and in particular the passage in which Obama describes as "frighteningly cold-hearted" Bill Clinton's decision to "allow the execution of a mentally retarded death row inmate to go forward on the eve of an important primary."

Those in the Democrat party who supported Hillary Clinton's campaign seem to be taking a certain bleak pleasure in Obama's recent triangulations – or rather headlong plunge into Republican territory. One such is the New York Times columnist Paul Krugman who put the knife in most elegantly: "Progressive activists during the Democratic primary... convinced themselves that Obama was a transformational figure behind a centrist facade. They may have had it backward."

Those who actually supported Obama during this process now divide neatly, if unevenly, into two groups. The first, smaller, group is full of buyer's remorse. The blogosphere is hissing like a catherine wheel with their anger with Obama, obviously, but above all with themselves. The second, much bigger group, continues to buy Obama's story. They argue that everything and anything is justified if it helps to get a Democrat back in the White House; some of them add that "of course" Obama doesn't believe any of the things he is now saying to woo the "redneck states" and that once in the White House he will revert to his "true beliefs".

To this group we must address a simple question. How do you know what Obama really believes in, other than his own destiny – and, of course, his conscience?

That "second group", "argue that everything and anything is justified if it helps to get a Democrat back in the White House; some of them add that "of course" Obama doesn't believe any of the things he is now saying to woo the "redneck states" and that once in the White House he will revert to his "true beliefs"....


A lot of that goes on here, among Obama's most die-hard.

So, yeah, I DO ask the question, because I'm struggling with it myself:

How do you know what Obama really believes in?
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
:lol

I stopped reading at "Obama forced Hillary to concede" bit.

And I'd argue you are more up Obama's ass than anyone here. Looking around in there trying to find any little bit on him to use against him. How's it taste?
 

Tamanon

Banned
Thank god CoolTrick is back.

And I'm glad you finally agree that Obama is at least just as good as your preferred candidate, Clinton!
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
reilo said:
Or the most obvious one:

"Colin Powell is neglecting his GOP roots and endorsing a liberal simply based on his skin color. What would people say if a liberal general endorsed McCain based on his skin color?!"

Obama vs McCain with Hispanics:

62% - Obama
28% - McCain

+/- 8%


34% point advantage OBAMA!!!! Latinos loves the dems. McCain might lose New Mexico, Nevada, and Florida this year.

:eek:
 
On the other hand, last week Barack Obama also took issue with a different judgment by the Supreme Court, which had struck down the State of Louisiana's law authorising the death penalty for the rape of a child. Obama, who as Illinois senator had opposed the death penalty for gang murders, now explained that he believes Louisiana's death penalty for a crime short of murder "is at least potentially applicable and does not violate our constitution".

It is fascinating, in the light of this particular manoeuvre, to turn again to The Audacity of Hope, and in particular the passage in which Obama describes as "frighteningly cold-hearted" Bill Clinton's decision to "allow the execution of a mentally retarded death row inmate to go forward on the eve of an important primary."
Being against the execution of the mentally retarded and being for the execution of child rapists are not exactly mutually exclusive, so I'm kind of confused by this bit.

FWIW, if you'd been paying attention, lots of people here criticized his flips on FISA and public financing. Not that I'd expect you to acknowledge that.
 

CoolTrick

Banned
Tamanon said:
Thank god CoolTrick is back.

And I'm glad you finally agree that Obama is at least just as good as your preferred candidate, Clinton!

Hillary never promoted herself as a transformational political figure. She was entirely ruthless, kinda gutless, had flaws, and her fans supported her in-spite of that. Many Obama fans, they just can't do this.

I stopped reading at "Obama forced Hillary to concede" bit.

And I'd argue you are more up Obama's ass than anyone here. Looking around in there trying to find any little bit on him to use against him. How's it taste?

You're Prototype A of a person I'd genuinely would appreciate a response to that article. Because you're exactly the kind of person that the article cites. Why not suck it up and read something that might not actually be in praise of Obama?

FWIW, if you'd been paying attention, lots of people here criticized his flips on FISA and public financing. Not that I'd expect you to acknowledge that.

Why wouldn't you expect me to acknowledge that? I know he was critisized plenty. I don't understand your point though, because you clearly didn't even read what I wrote.
 

Amir0x

Banned
judging from CoolTrick's attitude, the discussion won't last very long.

I will just personally say that many of Obama's actions over this past few weeks have been majorly disappointing to me and I'm sure others. It is far more "politics-as-usual" than I would like and I certainly don't believe in doing anything to win. If winning means this astounding lack of trust in the voters, then we can never have a candidate worthy of his word. They'll always have to pander.

And there's always a certain amount of that expected, but I wish Obama made some of his stands early on. He is clearly not trying to rock the boat now that the nomination is his. Maybe that's a bit to be expected... a very long drawn out primary season and he wants to step back from any heated back-and-forth battling. But that doesn't explain why he's so vigorously pushing back on the issue of national security.

I think Obama needs to stop jetting toward the center and return to his message. He's bucking too hard, and it's raising as many questions.

But the question "how do you know what Obama believes in" is simple. If you're so used to your politicians lying to you - as CoolTrick should have been thanks to his Hillary Clinton support - then he should be equally aware at what issues the candidate really supports behind his political drive to win. We all know what Obama really feels.
 

Tamanon

Banned
CoolTrick said:
Hillary never promoted herself as a transformational political figure. She was entirely ruthless, kinda gutless, had flaws, and her fans supported her in-spite of that. Many Obama fans, they just can't do this.

So....then you're saying that supporting Obama in spite of his flaws is good. I agree.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
CoolTrick said:
You're Prototype A of a person I'd genuinely would appreciate a response to that article. Because you're exactly the kind of person that the article cites. Why not suck it up and read something that might not actually be in praise of Obama?

Because an article based on a bullshit premise [that Obama forced Clinton out of the nomination?!] only deserves a bullshit response in return.

I have no problem reading articles that criticize Obama, as long as they have legitimate criticism that is not mired in a slew of logical fallacies, and if I disagree with the article, I will try my best to legitimately refute its points if I can.

I will not, however, take an article seriously the begins with what essentially amounts to, slander of its subject.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Top Swift Boaters have donated $69,000 to John McCain according to Hardball.

/slow-clap
 

CoolTrick

Banned
If you're so used to your politicians lying to you - as CoolTrick should have been thanks to his Hillary Clinton support - then he should be equally aware at what issues the candidate really supports behind his political drive to win. We all know what Obama really feels.

But how DO you, REALLY?

If he's willing to move to the center for a general, how do we know he didn't move to the extreme left in the primary?

If he's willing to flip on things he's pledged on paper, issues he's made a standing on for his entire political career, HOW do you really know what he believes in?

Because an article based on a bullshit premise [that Obama forced Clinton out of the nomination?!] only deserves a bullshit response in return.

Jesus christ you are beyond freaking annoying. That is not REMOTELY the point of the article, that was but a single LINE, and if you'd stop being an immature douche for one second and READ you'd stop spewing such statements out of your ass.

If you're so used to your politicians lying to you - as CoolTrick should have been thanks to his Hillary Clinton support

Don't you know the legislative mantra? Hillary and Obama are extremely, extremely similar. One panders, sometimes lies, and makes no bones about it. The other panders, lies, while at the exact same time owes his entire political fortune to pledging to not do that.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
i fail to see the lion share of Obama supporters being this mythical creation CoolTrick purports. there's been a fair number of uneasy discussion between libuurls and left-leaners over Obama's shuffle to the center, which is in plain view over the interwebs.

have fun with the straw mans cooltrick, and welcome back!
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
CoolTrick said:
Jesus christ you are beyond freaking annoying. That is not REMOTELY the point of the article, that was but a single LINE, and if you'd stop being an immature douche for one second and READ you'd stop spewing such statements out of your ass.

I'm sorry, but were you just talking to yourself?
 
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