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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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W

White Man

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I agree. Plus as the article points out he'd help in swing states like Nevada which has a large mormon population. I don't know if he'll carry Michigan for McCain though.
Click to expand...

I don't think Mormons would vote Democrat regardless of who's on the Republican ticket.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Dax01 said:
No. It will be more like "bububububu Obama never grocery shopped with teh common peoples."
Click to expand...

Obama never faced an Applesauce attack.
 
R

ralexand

100% logic failure rate
reilo said:
Yeah, the last thing McCain needs when he is struggling with the Christian-right is to name a Mormon his VP.
Click to expand...
Exactly, we're talking about an electorate that's afraid of a guy who might be secret muslim.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
PhoenixDark said:
I agree, but I bet mormon turnout would be much higher with Romney on the ticket thus benefiting McCain.
Click to expand...

Do Mormons even make up a significant percentage of the populace?
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I agree, but I bet mormon turnout would be much higher with Romney on the ticket thus benefiting McCain.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it very well might give him just the little bump he could really to compete better in the rockies and intermountain west, which is right now a very dangerous and not easy to defend flank for his campaign. Winning Michigan doesn't help much if you lose Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada due to superior campaign org by Team Obama.
 
N

numble

Member
reilo said:
Do Mormons even make up a significant percentage of the populace?
Click to expand...
In Nevada yes--a lot of the newly populated areas in the state have a lot of migrants from Utah. I was out there registering them so I remember how often I would see "Utah" as state of birth. And I've spoken to at least one that was planning on sitting out the election "unless he chooses Romney!". Besides the Mormon connection, Romney campaigned HARD in Nevada during the primary season so you actually run into more Romney for President signs (leftover?) than McCain signs (McCain finished 3rd in the Nevada caucus).
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
numble said:
In Nevada yes--a lot of the newly populated areas in the state have a lot of migrants from Utah. I was out there registering them so I remember how often I would see "Utah" as state of birth. And I've spoken to at least one that was planning on sitting out the election "unless he chooses Romney!". Besides the Mormon connection, Romney campaigned HARD in Nevada during the primary season so you actually run into more Romney for President signs (leftover?) than McCain signs (McCain finished 3rd in the Nevada caucus).
Click to expand...

So, McCain would choose a Veep that would lose him 50 electoral votes just so he could gain 5?

I'm also curious why Mormons choose to live in Nevada of all places. It's not a state exactly built upon chastity and booze free living.
 
L

Learn2read

Member
White Man said:
I don't think Mormons would vote Democrat regardless of who's on the Republican ticket.
Click to expand...
It interesting that for all of our thoughts of Mormons as basically hardcore Evangelicals but weirder...alot of their politcal activism and hardcore pro-life stances are a pretty recent development. I don't know how that would translate with a Romney ticket though.
 
N

numble

Member
reilo said:
So, McCain would choose a Veep that would lose him 50 electoral votes just so he could gain 5?

I'm also curious why Mormons choose to live in Nevada of all places. It's not a state exactly built upon chastity and booze free living.
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McCain isn't well known for brilliant campaign decisions. On paper it looks good for him because he is weak on the economy and Romney is "strong" on it, helping him out in Ohio, while his ties to Michigan and the Mormon populations in the western states also look good on paper.

On why Mormons move to Nevada:
No state income tax? A libertarian culture that is tolerant of an uncommon religion? Who knows? More likely reason is just that it's close to Utah.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
numble said:
McCain isn't well known for brilliant campaign decisions. On paper it looks good for him because he is weak on the economy and Romney is "strong" on it, helping him out in Ohio, while his ties to Michigan and the Mormon populations in the western states also look good on paper.

On why Mormons move to Nevada:
No state income tax? A libertarian culture that is tolerant of an uncommon religion? Who knows? More likely reason is just that it's close to Utah.
Click to expand...

They certainly would have a reason more than most groups to fear government interventionism from the left or the right.
 
L

Learn2read

Member
AlteredBeast said:
Its too bad that Romney is a mormon. Stripping that from him and he is the most sensible choice for veep on the McCain ticket.
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My only problem with a McCain-Romney ticket is that I wouldn't know who to mock first for being a giant fucking buffoon.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
1) I think Obama is going to win Michigan anyway, Romney might make it harder, but I think with the economy as bad as it is.

2) I think Mitt hurts McCain a good deal in the rest of the Midwest and with independents.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
StoOgE said:
1) I think Obama is going to win Michigan anyway, Romney might make it harder, but I think with the economy as bad as it is.

2) I think Mitt hurts McCain a good deal in the rest of the Midwest and with independents.
Click to expand...
How would Romney hurt McCain with indepedents and in the Midwest?
 
L

Learn2read

Member
StoOgE said:
1) I think Obama is going to win Michigan anyway, Romney might make it harder, but I think with the economy as bad as it is.

2) I think Mitt hurts McCain a good deal in the rest of the Midwest and with independents.
Click to expand...
Plus McCain already has an Evangelical problem, Romney ain't gonna help that. They may not switch to Obama, but might just sit this one out. Considering that come game day they've been the GOP's foot soldiers for 20+ years, that's a problem.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
And how is a former investment firm president that bought out some of the biggest conglomerates in the US supposed to be "strong on the economy"? Wouldn't that just give Romney the image that he is part of the problem for our current economic woes?
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Dax01 said:
Has anybody seen this? It's pathetic.
Edit: The guy can't even spell "elitist" correctly.:lol
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Is it any wonder that Barack Obama continues to look like the light wieght he is? How can American's seriously consider this fraud and his pack of goons as people competent to lead America at time of war? Please give me someone who actually knows what the US military is and is capable of doing. Not some illetist that wouldn't know and Army uniform from a Chicagop hotel doormans uniform.
Click to expand...

McCain knows what the military is and needs? Like when he voted against the GI Bill?

I've seen some snake oil salesmen in my day, but the latest from Barack Obama has me stymied. Are there any educated, racial, thoughtful people out there that really believe that Barack Obama can eliminate the world of nuclear weapons?
Click to expand...

So, McCain is going to get rid of USA's nukes? And wtf at the use of the word "racial"?
 
L

Learn2read

Member
reilo said:
And how is a former investment firm president that bought out some of the biggest conglomerates in the US supposed to be "strong on the economy"? Wouldn't that just give Romney the image that he is part of the problem for our current economic woes?
Click to expand...
Well, the classic Karl Rove strategy is to take someone's strength and flip it against them..."he's championed children's issues, pst...he's a pedophile"

I'd hate to see anything like that, but in this case just telling the truth about Romney should suffice.
 
L

Learn2read

Member
worldrunover said:
Pointing that out makes you elitist.
Click to expand...
Well lookee here, what a giant gay frenchmen we have here...lay-dee-daa "i can spell"

While yur busy spellin currek-like, Osama just blew up the white house, and is now Emperor of the Muslim States of America
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
Following Obama's trip abroad, it looked like the McCain campaign had lost a key talking point about Obama's failure to visit Iraq and Afghanistan recently enough.

But have no fear. Here's McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds on CNN today:

In fact, [Obama's] never met with President Uribe in Colombia, as John McCain has. He has still yet to take a trip to Mexico City to have those meetings there and his relationship with Canada, I think, took a turbulent roll through the primaries. So I think actually if you're to look at the experience of both candidates, that there are very telling differences.
Click to expand...

Can't wait for Obama to go to South, Central America, then Mexico and Canada to SHUT THEM THE FUCK UP.

Personally, I hope he meets with Uribe. Obama's not very popular there. : ( Yes, I know Colombians don't vote in the American presidency, but it'd be a big foreign credit for Obama if he could flip an opposing/critical conservative foreign leader (Uribe) into a foreign ally.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
while i'm an FP nut, i'd rather Obama not visit the rest of the Americas for now and focus on the domestic scene.
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
Obama's Secret Rescue Mission

Barack Obama carried out a secret assignment during his global tour last week.

While talking about the Middle East peace process in the West Bank Wednesday, the presumptive Democratic nominee slipped a note to Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad.

The private message: Help an anguished Chicago mother get her daughters back.

Obama detailed the plight of Colleen Bargouthi, 36. She says that for the last year, her four daughters have been held in the Palestinian territories, made to wear headdresses and schooled in Islam by their Muslim father, Yasser Shibli.

(snip)

Having Obama as her advocate was Colleen's wildest fantasy come true.
"I'm just extraordinarily pleased with what he's done for me," she said. "It makes me feel wonderful - one step closer to my daughters."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/seven/0727200...bamas_secret_rescue_mission_121815.htm?page=0
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
FlightOfHeaven said:
Oh, I know. He doesn't have time anymore. : (

Note:

Obama, saving families one note at a time.
Click to expand...

Not long after she got word from Obama's camp about his efforts, the phone rang again. It was her estranged husband.

He reportedly told her, "F- - - Washington, f- - - Obama and f- - - you."

:lol
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
grandjedi6 said:
How would Romney hurt McCain with indepedents and in the Midwest?
Click to expand...

Well, the rust belt right now isnt a big fan of execs who ship jobs over seas. Romney is (rightfully or wrongfully) going to easily labeled as an executive who cares about profits and not the little guy.

The other problem he is going to have with independents is that the guy just looks plastic and phoney. In this regard he is like John Kerry's aloof ass on steroids.

Look, the guy didnt exactly set the world on fire in the primaries and didnt exactly get a ton of support. The only people who like the guy are the dittoheads, and they dont even really like him, they just dont like McCain at all.

I get that McCain wants to help his base, but the republican base is bigger than just fiscal conservatives. In fact, most fiscal conservatives are going to vote for him anyway because he will be more "conservative" than Obama in this regard.

McCains real problem is evangelicals. They already dont like him because he isnt religious.. most people think he is pro-choice (even though he isnt) and McCain isnt quick to correct this. Throw in a guy that was pro-choice until the primary started who also happens to be a member of a religion most evangelicals consider dubious at best...

This is a real problem for McCain. A Southern or Midwestern evangellical (think Dan Quayle but not mentally retarded) would scare me a good deal more.
 
M

maynerd

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
Not long after she got word from Obama's camp about his efforts, the phone rang again. It was her estranged husband.

He reportedly told her, "F- - - Washington, f- - - Obama and f- - - you."

:lol
Click to expand...

Sounds like McCain dialed the wrong number.
 
S

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Deus Ex Machina said:
Not long after she got word from Obama's camp about his efforts, the phone rang again. It was her estranged husband.

He reportedly told her, "F- - - Washington, f- - - Obama and f- - - you."

:lol
Click to expand...


Perhaps he meant "Free Washington, Fond (of) Obama and (I want to) Fuck you (when I get home)?


P.S. If you're gonna post an article like that maybe it would be wise to paint a clearer picture so we have a little less FUD itt.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Are there any good sources around to help me come to grips with your countries Health care and Social Security situations? I've been extensively debating with someone who is now claiming that Obama has no plan for Healthcare and Social Security (first I've heard of this?). I've been argueing over economics very extensively, and pretty much managed to cary the day, but my knowledge of the Social Security and healthcare situation in your country is lacking. It's possible these issues have blind sided me, and it could be a weakness in his platform?
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Zen said:
Are there any good sources around to help me come to grips with your countries Health care and Social Security situations? I've been extensively debating with someone who is now claiming that Obama has no plan for Healthcare and Social Security (first I've heard of this?). I've been argueing over economics very extensively, and pretty much managed to cary the day, but my knowledge of the Social Security and healthcare situation in your country is lacking. It's possible these issues have blind sided me, and it could be a weakness in his platform?
Click to expand...
Healthcare:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Social Security:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/seniors/

Those only give where he stands on those positions, though.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
http://vawatchdog.org/08/nf08/nfJUL08/nf072808-3.htm

There are lots of people trying to figure out what McCain means by this.

He wants the VA to get out of the business of "routine" healthcare and just treat "combat wounds."

This would mean that non-combat, service-connected conditions wouldn't be treated by the VA. This would mean that there would be no preventive medicine practiced at the VA.

A number of journalists have asked the McCain campaign for a clarification, but none has been offered at this time.

If McCain is being straight-up about this proposal, it would mean the end of the VA.

In the piece below, McCain again called for a "VA Card" that vets could use anywhere for their care. Again...this would mean the end of the VA. We have seen what happened when our military hospitals were closed and retirees were given a "card"...they ended up with an HMO (TRICARE) and many of them are paying dearly for their healthcare.

Even VA Secretary Peake is opposed to the "VA Card" concept, calling it "yellow-page medicine" and "potentially dangerous."
Click to expand...

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/07/26/politics/fromtheroad/entry4297032.shtml for the original quotes.

Not sure exactly what he's trying to do by changing the VA to move vets to ERs instead. If the government reimburses for services, this will just drive costs up.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Political reporters have long been obsessed with conflict between presidential candidates and their running mates, at least since the days of John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson.

That's probably one reason why McCain's joke in Detroit last week that Mitt Romney was "doing a better job for me than he did for himself" sparked a wave of news stories speculating that McCain was seriously considering, for the vice-presidential slot, his bitter rival turned loyal surrogate.

But while choosing Romney to be his running mate would make Washington journalists happy, it would be nothing short of political suicide for McCain.

Romney exited the Republican race after spending over $110 million (including $45 million of his own money) having failed to consolidate support among conservatives, while earning the reputation as an inauthentic flip-flopper among the public at large. A Gallup poll taken within days of his dropping out of the race in February showed that 46 percent of Americans had an unfavorable opinion of Romney, compared with just 34 percent who had a favorable opinion.


PROPONENTS OF ROMNEY becoming vice president argue that he would help with fundraising, energize conservatives who are cool on McCain, and add economic credentials to the ticket. These advantages are exaggerated.

Given that McCain is accepting public financing and his expenditures will be capped at $85 million in the fall, Romney's benefits as a fundraiser would be somewhat mitigated, especially because McCain himself is not too keen on having outside groups influence the election.

Romney's fans on the right like to believe that Romney lost because Mike Huckabee and Fred Thompson helped carve up the conservative vote, but it was only because of Romney's weakness among conservatives that either of them had an opening.

Although he presented himself as a full-spectrum conservative, Romney faced his share of detractors within each branch of the conservative movement. There were economic conservatives who opposed his universal health-care plan in Massachusetts, social conservatives who didn't think his conversion on abortion was sincere, and national security conservatives who had doubts about his lack of experience in foreign affairs.

McCain's critics talk about his problems among evangelicals, but Romney actually fared even worse than McCain among this key Republican constituency. An analysis of CNN exit polls in 20 nominating contests in which they competed shows that McCain beat Romney among evangelicals in 12 of those states. Romney's distant fourth place showing in South Carolina was a particularly weak result, because he poured a tremendous amount of money and resources into the state for almost a year.

To the extent that conservatives did rally around Romney toward the tail end of his campaign, it was mainly as a last ditch effort to prevent McCain from becoming the nominee. This is obviously now moot.

ROMNEY'S BOOSTERS OFTEN make the mistake of assuming that just because he has a strong business background, that he will be able to appeal to voters who are concerned about the economy. But the data doesn't support this view.

Romney was able to turn economic jitters to his advantage in the Michigan primary (after pledging $20 billion in subsidies for the auto industry), but he wasn't able to gain much traction on the issue elsewhere. In Florida, for instance, despite targeted messaging emphasizing his business credentials, Romney lost to McCain among voters who considered the economy the most important issue, 40 percent to 32 percent.

A deeper look at his performance in the primaries shows that Romney's appeal was stronger among higher-income voters than it was among the type of working class voters who will determine the election. Also, Romney consistently did substantially worse among those who thought the economy was "not good or poor" than he did among people who thought it was "excellent or good." In an electoral environment in which Americans are increasingly pessimistic about the state of the economy, this would be trouble.

While Romney's strong business background was an asset during the Republican primaries, it could backfire in the general election. Democrats will point to Romney's vast fortune to make their case that Republicans are the party of the rich, and out of touch with the economic concerns of ordinary Americans. In his 1994 U.S. Senate race against Ted Kennedy, Romney was torpedoed by television ads featuring workers who said they lost their jobs when he took over their companies.

All but the most ardent Romney backers would have to admit that it's hard to see Romney -- who signed an assault weapons ban as governor of Massachusetts -- going into those gun-clinging small towns of Ohio and Pennsylvania and connecting with locals any better than Barack Obama.


MASSACHUSETTS WON'T BE MADE competitive by choosing Romney, and McCain doesn't need him to win Utah. The only state Romney has the potential to help in is Michigan, but there is no hard evidence to back up this speculation, certainly nothing strong enough to justify adding all of Romney's baggage to the ticket.

Romney's reputation as a flip-flopper would undermine McCain's "Straight Talk" brand, which is his greatest asset in a year when the public is sour on Republicans. It would also make it more difficult for the McCain campaign to continue to portray Obama as a politician who changes his positions with the wind.

And then, of course, there's the fact that those conflict-loving journalists will replay every disagreement Romney and McCain had during their often heated contest. Video clips of Romney attacking McCain for not understanding economics would provide particularly great fodder for Democratic TV ads.

Romney may be the dream vice-presidential candidate for reporters looking for political intrigue, but not for Republicans hoping to maintain control of the White House.
Click to expand...
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13578

Some good points although the author seems like a big Romney hater; btw check out the website's front page for some lols
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
PhoenixDark said:
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13578

Some good points although the author seems like a big Romney hater; btw check out the website's front page for some lols
Click to expand...

That mirrors alot of my own thoughts.

I think he has some upsides with some groups, but I think he does a ton of damage with others. I think McCains best bet is to go get someone who will make the evangelical base really thrilled to motivate them.. evangelicals are the workhorse of the rep. party. Romney not only doesnt bring them in, it pushes them further away.

Part of the problem is the republican brand is shit right now, so any actually decent VP pick may not want it. I think thats why Jindal took himself out of the race. If you are a rising star, why blow political capital on a race that is an underdog? You can't tell me Edwards failure as a VP candidate didnt hurt him this year in the primaries.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Tamanon said:
http://vawatchdog.org/08/nf08/nfJUL08/nf072808-3.htm



http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/07/26/politics/fromtheroad/entry4297032.shtml for the original quotes.

Not sure exactly what he's trying to do by changing the VA to move vets to ERs instead. If the government reimburses for services, this will just drive costs up.
Click to expand...

McCain speaks off the cuff a lot and stuff like this is the result pretty often. Half-baked (or completely raw) ideas that fall apart under closer scrutiny.

I think it's a reflection of his attitude towards policy. He's not a wonk or a details guy yet still has a very healthy opinion of his own judgment.

Lemme rephrase. He's not a wonk or a details guy because he has a very healthy opinion of his own judgment.

He believes so much in his own innate non-/bi-/post-partisan straight talkin' common sense that he doesn't bother doing his homework. In his world, the only barriers to finding solutions is other people's tribalism and petty agendas.

The idea that maybe these are complex issues that involve a lot of specialized knowledge and competing legitimate claims and interests? Pshaw.

It's why he's comfortable surrounding himself with lobbyists. He knows how above the fray he is, so why worry?

It's why he accuses Obama of losing a war to win an election. He knows the war is being won, so the only reason to pretend otherwise would be selfish political gain.

It's why he said he'd "tell the Sunnis and Shiites to stop the bullshit" if he were president. Everyone else in the world is just bullshitting, and they'll all cut it out when John McCain tells them to.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Tamanon said:
Not sure exactly what he's trying to do by changing the VA to move vets to ERs instead. If the government reimburses for services, this will just drive costs up.
Click to expand...
Yes, let's close down institutions that specialize in patients who have combat-related issues. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
My guess is that McCain intuits that privately provided services are always more efficient than publicly provided services. Just add the power of market competition and voila!
 
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