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PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Checkin' Off His List

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drakesfortune

Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah it sucks. That's why I belive "politically" we are going the way of California. Everything that needs to be done, will not be done. Nobody in Congress will ever pull the trigger on anything now.

Many people will find out that compromising over the last year will look great compared to what we will/will not get over the next 3 years. Now people will see what it's really like to truly get nothing at all. And getting nothing will fell alot worse than getting a compromise solution.

Can't wait to lose the HOUSE this year. DEMs suck hard.

What do you mean, what we get? All most of us want is for the Government to get the fuck out of our way! We don't want them to have more control over our lives. We don't want them to intrude into our space more than they already are. We want them to shut the fuck up, balance the budget, and when they do that, then come talk to us about new programs. But if you can't balance the budget now, please don't royally fuck us over with passing new bills that add to our horrible deficits. It makes no sense.

RiskyChris said:
Obama's plan isn't "blame the Republicans." Your political analysis is empty and soulless, drakey.

The voters of Mass disagree.

Come on. Nancy Pelosi wrote the house bill. Harry Reid got the MOST left wing bill he could get with 60 democrats on board. Those bills are as left wing as could possibly be passed with only democrats on board. That's compromise?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah it sucks. That's why I belive "politically" we are going the way of California. Everything that needs to be done, will not be done. Nobody in Congress will ever pull the trigger on anything now.

Many people will find out that compromising over the last year will look great compared to what we will/will not get over the next 3 years. Now people will see what it's really like to truly get nothing at all. And getting nothing will fell alot worse than getting a compromise solution.

Can't wait to lose the HOUSE this year. DEMs suck hard.
The thing is, it does not matter if we lose the House or not.

The House has passed:

  • Healthcare
  • Energy/cap and trade
  • Education reform
  • Financial regulation reform

The Senate now cannot do any of those things because 41 > 59. So we can keep the House and keep the Senate and continue to have an entirely frozen government. Literally hundreds of Obama's appointees from last year are not yet in place - multiple departments are running on skeleton, temp-laden crews. Obama's entire domestic agenda is now down in flames.

What's going to happen in the next three years will make California look like a well oiled machine. This nation is completely fucked. And we deserve it.

GG, MA.
 
drakesfortune said:
Yeah they are, but do you think it was maybe dishonest of Obama to campaign as a guy who'd bring us all together and work with Republicans, and then come to the table and say, 'you lost, we won, tough shit', which is in essence what he did?

No, that is not the essence of what happened...at all. Republicans presented no detailed, viable plan of their own. Most don't even agree there's a problem to begin with - the government should simply do nothing. They were presented with various plans that kept getting more and more cut down to try to get some of them on board. The current Seante bill is more conservative than Massachusett's own health system. And yet Brown will probably vote against it. Why?

drakesfortune said:
That's not what the 5 to 10 percent in the middle that decide elections voted for. They really believed that he'd work with republicans at whatever cost to make sure that things were done in a bipartisan manner, and not deciding votes that fundamentally change the country without a single Republican vote of support.

This makes no sense. You don't elect a new party with different ideas to work at all costs with the deposed party. Otherwise, why did you vote for something new in the first place? Republicans refuse to vote because they know it's in their political interest to see the President fail. They don't care about bipartisanship. And you can't be bipartisan with people who only want you to fail.
 

Money

Banned
thefit said:
We aren't broke because we are liberal we are broke because our constitution is retarded. We allow the majority of voters to amend it and because of that years ago we got Prop 13 (also see prop 8) wich capped property taxes and therefore the state has had to tax everything else since but most importantly it led to us constantly borrowing money from wall st to keep the state running. The state has been a fiscal nightmare since. We also amended our constitution so that any new taxes have to be voted with 2/3 majority a Republican trick seeing as they most often win the Governorship but are almost always the minority in the state assembly. Properly having taxed our state would not have put us were we are now.

California is the highest taxed state, followed by New York correct? Why is it in such financial trouble? They don't collect enough? Someone will probably spout back that this is a right wing talking point, and fair enough, but some truth has to lie in it. It seems like no matter how much they collect, its never enough. Not trying to add fuel to the fire, I know alot of you are upset, but come one man we get taxed left, right, up, and down.
 
Mercury Fred said:
:lol

Are you insane? Obama has done nothing but try to appease the Republicans since he got into office.

Shhh... let us not forget, the Republicans have been open to work with Obama the entire time, Pat Robertson wasn't an asshole by stating God cursed the Haitians, gay marriage shouldn't be legalized since grandma may one day want to marry her cat named Theo, and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Also, I forget his name, but one of the analysts on Olberman stated that a few members of the House who supposedly stated they wouldn't accept the Senate version now have said that they will wait and see what Pelosi can do before they make their decision. Heres hoping Nancy can pull a rabbit out of her hat.
 

drakesfortune

Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
GhaleonEB said:
The thing is, it does not matter if we lose the House or not.

The House has passed:

  • Healthcare
  • Energy/cap and trade
  • Education reform
  • Financial regulation reform

The Senate now cannot do any of those things because 41 > 59. So we can keep the House and keep the Senate and continue to have an entirely frozen government. Literally hundreds of Obama's appointees from last year are not yet in place - multiple departments are running on skeleton, temp-laden crews. Obama's entire domestic agenda is now down in flames.

What's going to happen in the next three years will make California look like a well oiled machine. This nation is completely fucked. And we deserve it.

GG, MA.

This is the last thing I'll say for the night. For the last 200 years the dems and republicans have been able to compromise and get things done. Now is no different than then. They just need to move to the middle, and write bills that the MIDDLE is behind. They will lose the far left. They will lose the far right. And they will get things done, as things have ALWAYS gotten done in this country, with broad consensus. Our country is FOUNDED on that principal. We are now returning to it, after a year of trying to do things in a different way. Things will be done, if Obama is willing to recalibrate his words, his agenda, and move forward in a humble, and conciliatory manner. If he is unwilling, there is zero chance he wins re-election.

PantherLotus said:
I see this is DrakesFortune's semi-monthly dive-bombing of the poligaf thread.

I forgot, conservatives aren't allowed to come in here every night and speak. I think you've posted about as much as I have tonight, but you're right, I'm not allowed because I don't follow the group think.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
drakesfortune said:
What do you mean, what we get? All most of us want is for the Government to get the fuck out of our way! We don't want them to have more control over our lives. We don't want them to intrude into our space more than they already are. We want them to shut the fuck up, balance the budget, and when they do that, then come talk to us about new programs. But if you can't balance the budget now, please don't royally fuck us over with passing new bills that add to our horrible deficits. It makes no sense.
?

A. How can government get out of the way? It's the federal gov't.

B. You can't balance the budget without dealing with healthcare.

C. The bill didn't add the the deficit. Funny enough it lowered it like you should want.
 
WE NEED A REVOLUTION

Seriously people, if I create a thread specifically on organizing and slowly starting to build up a revolution will you guys support it? I am tired of my generation being soooo complacent and lazy... let's fucking do something about this bullshit.
 

thefit

Member
ToxicAdam said:
So, it's the voters fault for preventing politicians from raising taxes on their properties? Wow, try running for office on that idea.

It's not like California is under-taxed in that regard either, they are ranked about 25th per capita.

Taxing is one thing completely fumbling what you do with the money is another we have had nothing but incompetent politicians that have squandered any loot. We may be overly taxed but a lot of that is on the less wealthy. Corporations get a shit load of breaks here and just like in the rest of the country a lot of corporate taxes don't get payed because of loopholes but thats a national issue not just us.

I'm not saying we would be swimming in gold otherwise but we probably wouldn't be in such a shit fiscal situation .

My original reply was to refute your thought that my state is fiscally in trouble because of "liberals" get your facts right, if anything all the anti-tax legislation here is spearheaded by Republicans so blame them not us.

I have to give Arnold $220 so I can keep driving for another year.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
drakesfortune said:
I guarantee you that if Obama's efforts at bipartisan outreach had been seen as even MODERATELY sincere, the people would have been with him. There was NO sincerity in his outreach. He said to Republicans what you have been saying, elections have consequences. That's is the furthest thing from a bipartisan message.

He's said OVER and OVER again that we are where we are because of the failed policies of the past. Half were Republican and half Democrat, that's what he doesn't say. BOTH parties put us in this mess. Clinton signed into law the very deregulation that lead to the collapse, and Republicans pushed for it to. It was a bipartisan problem, and Obama to this day still places 100% of the blame on Republicans. That is getting him nowhere.

Again, read the Mort Zuckerman article. He is a Democrat. He voted for Obama. He donated to Obama. I am not crazy to think Obama is way out on a limb right now, and he MUST change course or we are all in for big trouble. All of us. It is NOT good for one party to have so much power, but Obama will lay the groundwork for decades of pragmatic conservative rule, which will lead to corruption, if he doesn't change course NOW.
I've never heard of Mort Zuckerman, but already I see some very dubious claims. It can be argued that coverage is a very important component of cost control. In order to lower premiums and prevent discrimination of the sick, everybody should be in the risk pool. Why doesn't he cite anything when he says that it's going to raise costs? Every metric I've seen says that it will lower costs.

Also, unions are only exempt from the excise tax until about 2018. It's designed to restructure plans, which is one of the purposes of the excise tax to begin with.

Anyway, this comes across like a bit of whining. Essentially, I'll take my ball and go home. Sorry, blame gets thrown around indiscriminately. Both parties do it, and it has virtually happened since the beginning of time. That gives them no excuse for anything.

And most people who are keeping the Republicans in power have absolutely no desire to work with Obama. They come from predominately red states that would vote Republican no matter what. When they do vote Democrat, it is one that has to play ball. Ben Nelson has compromised and has tried to work this thing out, and what's his reward? Most people in his state disagree with him. Your presumption is that people act on good faith. They do not, and proof is to the contrary. Republicans are resisting bipartisanship because they know that it will get them reelected.
 

thefit

Member
mckmas8808 said:
A. How can government get out of the way? It's the federal gov't.

B. You can't balance the budget without dealing with healthcare.

C. The bill didn't add the the deficit. Funny enough it lowered it like you should want.

Maybe he wants government to get out of the way like they did in Haiti? Now theres a Libertarian paradise if I ever saw one.
 

sonicmj1

Member
drakesfortune said:
Yeah they are, but do you think it was maybe dishonest of Obama to campaign as a guy who'd bring us all together and work with Republicans, and then come to the table and say, 'you lost, we won, tough shit', which is in essence what he did? That's not what the 5 to 10 percent in the middle that decide elections voted for. They really believed that he'd work with republicans at whatever cost to make sure that things were done in a bipartisan manner, and not deciding votes that fundamentally change the country without a single Republican vote of support.

And to prove it, look at his poll numbers! His most popular issue is Afghanistan!! Why? Because people like me, and many in the middle left SUPPORT his decisions there. Obama is doing a damn fine job on Afghanistan, and I'm not scared to say so. I wish he'd be as pragmatic domestically as he has been with regard to foreign policy.

It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

If you can agree that health care reform of some sort is necessary (given rising prices and so forth, can we agree on this point, even?), then what do the Republicans want in order to reform the health care system? Is it just yanking the state antitrust exemption and capping malpractice payouts? The idea behind compromise is that both sides work together to reach a middle ground from their separate positions, but I have no idea where the ground exactly is on the right on this issue. If an alternative was ever presented, it was many months into the debate before it even reared its head.

It seems that way on a lot of issues. I can't tell what the Republicans want most of the time, because it seems that all they stand for is inaction. The only remotely coherent stance I've heard (as a general platform) is the one advocating lower taxes and lower government spending, which, while impractical given the current climate, is at least ideologically consistent. But I'm not sure what actual proposals are left.

Instead, all I see are stall tactics and obstruction. The filibuster has been used more times by Republicans in this year than at any other point in Senate history. Over 30 Republican senators see an amendment that prevents companies with contracts with the federal government from exempting themselves from liability when employees are raped by co-workers as a political attack on Haliburton, rather than something that makes perfect goddamn sense. Maybe it's because I'm on the other side of the political aisle, but to me, that doesn't seem to be a good-faith effort to compromise.

It's ridiculous, because by replacing compromise with obstruction, the government is being prevented from getting important things done, and that reflects poorly on those in power. It probably should, because if you have as large a majority as the Democrats have, with a sympathetic President, and you can't pass legislation, something is really messed up. But it feels wrong to me, because I don't get why Democrats shoulder the blame among many for not being bipartisan when there doesn't appear to have been any effort in good faith by the other side.

Obama can't possibly compromise with the Republicans if they act like this without sacrificing the support of the rest of his party. Compromise requires give and take, and while the Democrats have attempted some pretty serious concessions for what they want, the Republicans haven't budged an inch.

The reason Afghanistan is working is because it's something that can't and won't be obstructed by the Republican Party, because they're going to support the troops in whatever way they can. But every domestic initiative is either being diluted severely (such that it is distasteful to many Democrats), or it isn't even reaching the floor.

It seems absolutely absurd to me that Congress can spend months and months on this bill and possibly never, ever reach an up-and-down vote on it.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:
The thing is, it does not matter if we lose the House or not.

The House has passed:

  • Healthcare
  • Energy/cap and trade
  • Education reform
  • Financial regulation reform

The Senate now cannot do any of those things because 41 > 59. So we can keep the House and keep the Senate and continue to have an entirely frozen government. Literally hundreds of Obama's appointees from last year are not yet in place - multiple departments are running on skeleton, temp-laden crews. Obama's entire domestic agenda is now down in flames.

What's going to happen in the next three years will make California look like a well oiled machine. This nation is completely fucked. And we deserve it.

GG, MA.


Yeah this is true. The country gets what it deserves. At this rate if nothing changes by 2020 countries like China will be laughing at us wondering what happened to a great nation.

Maybe it really is our time to fall like Rome. Maybe America's run truly is over, because it just doesn't seem like the American people are forward thinking enough to actually want to change this country.

And thanks cable news for turning politics into a sports crazed mindset. Instead of 80% policy and 20% politics, we get the inverse.
 
drakesfortune said:
This is the last thing I'll say for the night. For the last 200 years the dems and republicans have been able to compromise and get things done. Now is no different than then. They just need to move to the middle, and write bills that the MIDDLE is behind. They will lose the far left. They will lose the far right. And they will get things done, as things have ALWAYS gotten done in this country, with broad consensus. Our country is FOUNDED on that principal. We are now returning to it, after a year of trying to do things in a different way. Things will be done, if Obama is willing to recalibrate his words, his agenda, and move forward in a humble, and conciliatory manner. If he is unwilling, there is zero chance he wins re-election.



I forgot, conservatives aren't allowed to come in here every night and speak. I think you've posted about as much as I have tonight, but you're right, I'm not allowed because I don't follow the group think.

Sorry, the Repubs don't want to negotiate and compromise. If Obama stated the sky was blue they would argue its blue because he is a democrat. If Obama said he was eating a red apple for a snack, the Repubs would argue its because he is a communist and wants to bring communism to the States. The Republicans have not shown ONE OUNCE of wanting to compromise. They don't want Health Care Reform. They don't want to hold the big banks accountable. They are simply a party of no, no, no (at least currently). The dems need to forget working with the republicans and get something done.
 
Sigh. Lots of gloating on facebook, and I have no energy or interest in responding. This is what happens when the base is given the middle finger and told to sit in the back of the bus. Expect more of this in November. People aren't excited, and why should they be when everything is compromised to shit.

Good luck passing meaningful financial regulation, or a jobs bill, or cap n trade, or student loan reform, or immigration. Obama is going to go down as a massive disappointment. It won't be all his fault, but for the first time I can't even defend him from my more conservative friends.

I bought Nixonland a few days ago. It's an awesome book, but I won't be able to read it for the next few days if not weeks. This toxic political environment is too depressing.
 

drakesfortune

Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
mckmas8808 said:
A. How can government get out of the way? It's the federal gov't.

B. You can't balance the budget without dealing with healthcare.

C. The bill didn't add the the deficit. Funny enough it lowered it like you should want.

C. Seriously? So this bill that pays for 5-6 years of benefits and taxes for 10 years didn't add to the deficit? This bill that cut 500 billion from medicare that NOBODY would ever truly cut, didn't add to the deficit? This is why dems lost in mass tonight. People are not fucking stupid.

B. Yes you can balance the budget without dealing with healthcare. That's a talking point. There are many ways to tackle the problem. The healthcare bill makes the problem 10 times worse than it is.

A. The soviets put the government between all people and their businesses. In the old days capitalism was without regulation and put nothing between the people and business greed. In the middle of soviet dominance and unbridled capitalism is a HUGE middle ground of ways to tackle an economy. Right now, the government is trying to do WAY too much. Most of us in the business community want them to just get out of the way and stop scaring us with potential massive cost increases to having employees. That'd be a good start.

Finally, to all of you saying that republicans are just obstructing. All Obama has to do is to be SEEN as trying HARD to compromise, and for people to believe it's actually sincere, and he gains the upper hand. Nobody believes that he and dems in the house/senate have tried to actually do that. Nobody, but the true blue believers believes that. Mass says I'm right.

If Obama was seen as trying VERY hard to win Republican support, over the top trying, he would have the country behind him. Instead, he's seen as trying to push a bill through that has roughly only 36% support. The country is behind Republicans right now, in their opposition. They do NOT want Republicans to go along with this.

Heck, if Obama really tried, and truly compromised, he'd EASILY get Snow and Lincoln on board with HCR.
 

joey_z

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
The thing is, it does not matter if we lose the House or not.

The House has passed:

  • Healthcare
  • Energy/cap and trade
  • Education reform
  • Financial regulation reform

The Senate now cannot do any of those things because 41 > 59. So we can keep the House and keep the Senate and continue to have an entirely frozen government. Literally hundreds of Obama's appointees from last year are not yet in place - multiple departments are running on skeleton, temp-laden crews. Obama's entire domestic agenda is now down in flames.

What's going to happen in the next three years will make California look like a well oiled machine. This nation is completely fucked. And we deserve it.

GG, MA.

A bit melodramatic don't you think?
 

cntr

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
If the House would pass the Senate bill, that's one thing. But scores of Dems have said since the results of tonight's election that they will not pass the Senate bill (including Barney Frank, which will carry some weight in the caucus).

Could the House pass the bill, and the Senate (and House) use reconciliation to pass a additional bill to add all the stuff that was previously removed to appease the Blue Dogs?

Have the chances of nuclear option increased?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
drakesfortune said:
C. Seriously? So this bill that pays for 5-6 years of benefits and taxes for 10 years didn't add to the deficit? This bill that cut 500 billion from medicare that NOBODY would ever truly cut, didn't add to the deficit? This is why dems lost in mass tonight. People are not fucking stupid.

B. Yes you can balance the budget without dealing with healthcare. That's a talking point. There are many ways to tackle the problem. The healthcare bill makes the problem 10 times worse than it is.

A. The soviets put the government between all people and their businesses. In the old days capitalism was without regulation and put nothing between the people and business greed. In the middle of soviet dominance and unbridled capitalism is a HUGE middle ground of ways to tackle an economy. Right now, the government is trying to do WAY too much. Most of us in the business community want them to just get out of the way and stop scaring us with potential massive cost increases to having employees. That'd be a good start.

Finally, to all of you saying that republicans are just obstructing. All Obama has to do is to be SEEN as trying HARD to compromise, and for people to believe it's actually sincere, and he gains the upper hand. Nobody believes that he and dems in the house/senate have tried to actually do that. Nobody, but the true blue believers believes that. Mass says I'm right.

If Obama was seen as trying VERY hard to win Republican support, over the top trying, he would have the country behind him. Instead, he's seen as trying to push a bill through that has roughly only 36% support. The country is behind Republicans right now, in their opposition. They do NOT want Republicans to go along with this.

Heck, if Obama really tried, and truly compromised, he'd EASILY get Snow and Lincoln on board with HCR.

Okay you really are freaking crazy.

No more responses to you.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
drakesfortune said:
I guarantee you that if Obama's efforts at bipartisan outreach had been seen as even MODERATELY sincere, the people would have been with him. There was NO sincerity in his outreach. He said to Republicans what you have been saying, elections have consequences. That's is the furthest thing from a bipartisan message.

He's said OVER and OVER again that we are where we are because of the failed policies of the past. Half were Republican and half Democrat, that's what he doesn't say. BOTH parties put us in this mess. Clinton signed into law the very deregulation that lead to the collapse, and Republicans pushed for it to. It was a bipartisan problem, and Obama to this day still places 100% of the blame on Republicans. That is getting him nowhere.

Again, read the Mort Zuckerman article. He is a Democrat. He voted for Obama. He donated to Obama. I am not crazy to think Obama is way out on a limb right now, and he MUST change course or we are all in for big trouble. All of us. It is NOT good for one party to have so much power, but Obama will lay the groundwork for decades of pragmatic conservative rule, which will lead to corruption, if he doesn't change course NOW.


LOL so it's a sincerity issue now.
 

thefit

Member
cntrational said:
Could the House pass the bill, and the Senate (and House) use reconciliation to pass a additional bill to add all the stuff that was previously removed to appease the Blue Dogs?

Have the chances of nuclear option increased?


They won't use the nuclear option because they are pussies.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
joey_z said:
A bit melodramatic don't you think?


Nope he's 100% dead on there. And to a degree, I'd say he wasn't harsh enough. 2010 and 2011 will be shitty hell holes policy wise. Lets hope the Jobs bill can get passed just purely due to good wording on the DEMs behalf and the economy gets better.

But at this point, the REPs could say no to the jobs bill and still win even more races in 2010 so that might not happen either.
 

Godslay

Banned
drakesfortune said:
I guarantee you that if Obama's efforts at bipartisan outreach had been seen as even MODERATELY sincere, the people would have been with him. There was NO sincerity in his outreach. He said to Republicans what you have been saying, elections have consequences. That's is the furthest thing from a bipartisan message.

He's said OVER and OVER again that we are where we are because of the failed policies of the past. Half were Republican and half Democrat, that's what he doesn't say. BOTH parties put us in this mess. Clinton signed into law the very deregulation that lead to the collapse, and Republicans pushed for it to. It was a bipartisan problem, and Obama to this day still places 100% of the blame on Republicans. That is getting him nowhere.

Again, read the Mort Zuckerman article. He is a Democrat. He voted for Obama. He donated to Obama. I am not crazy to think Obama is way out on a limb right now, and he MUST change course or we are all in for big trouble. All of us. It is NOT good for one party to have so much power, but Obama will lay the groundwork for decades of pragmatic conservative rule, which will lead to corruption, if he doesn't change course NOW.

I know a lot of people in here don't like to hear this, but I think that this makes a lot of sense and this is what pushed me towards Obama in the first place. It may or may not prove true, but I that is why I voted for the guy. I thought that he would be bipartisan in a fair manner, try to be as pragmatic as possible, and really root out some of the crap that was happening in Washington.

I wanted a lot of things to happen, but when you lose the "supermajority" you have to come back down to Earth and make things happen. That happens to include the Republicans. If Obama can start off on a new foot with the Repubs, and build a solid consensus around things it would be good not only for Obama, but the country in general. Get them working together in a smart manner (Dems and Reps), and he's golden. The far left and the far right might bitch and complain, but what's new?

I have faith if there is anyone in our government right now that can pull this off, it's Obama, but he has to take the first step and rebuild relationships with the Reps. Otherwise I don't see the gridlock breaking, and as Drake so gently puts it there will be plenty of Dem heads rolling next Nov.
 

Averon

Member
thefit said:
They won't use the nuclear option because they are pussies.


Which is so frustrating. As long as the nuclear option isn't used, 41 is great than 59 for some screwed up reason. Neither the GOP nor the Dems will ever give up the filibuster; they're too fucking scared of not having it when they're in the minority.
 

teiresias

Member
thefit said:
They won't use the nuclear option because they are pussies.

This. They let the right paint them as commie socialist bastards without actually having any of the balls to actually act like it. Problem is, even if they don't act like that the sheep public will act like they are anyway and vote their asses out regardless of what they do.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Excellent analysis of the Brown/Coakley race.

The unflinching Brown had much more experience in tough partisan elections than Coakley, and it showed in this campaign. In 2004, the Republican won a close special election and November rematch to capture and then hold his state Senate seat. Coakley, by contrast, won the offices of attorney general and Middlesex district attorney over token Republican opponents.

Brown’s chief consultants were battle-tested not only in bruising state elections but also at the national level. Eric Fehrnstrom, Beth Myers, and Peter Flaherty, all principals of The Shawmut Group, were veterans of Mitt Romney’s 2002 gubernatorial and 2008 presidential campaigns. They provided strategic advice, developed the communications plan, and created Brown’s distinctive and highly effective television advertisements.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Godslay said:
I know a lot of people in here don't like to hear this, but I think that this makes a lot of sense and this is what pushed me towards Obama in the first place. It may or may not prove true, but I that is why I voted for the guy. I thought that he would be bipartisan in a fair manner, try to be as pragmatic as possible, and really root out some of the crap that was happening in Washington.

I wanted a lot of things to happen, but when you lose the "supermajority" you have to come back down to Earth and make things happen. That happens to include the Republicans. If Obama can start off on a new foot with the Repubs, and build a solid consensus around things it would be good not only for Obama, but the country in general. Get them working together in a smart manner (Dems and Reps), and he's golden. The far left and the far right might bitch and complain, but what's new?

I have faith if there is anyone in our government right now that can pull this off, it's Obama, but he has to take the first step and rebuild relationships with the Reps. Otherwise I don't see the gridlock breaking, and as Drake so gently puts it there will be plenty of Dem heads rolling next Nov.

I would have liked to see more bipartisan work done too. But I don't know what else he could have done to make things more bipartisan. What concessions does the Republican party require in order for them to be sure of the President's "sincerity"?

There's only so much the guy can do. He can't become Republican.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Nope he's 100% dead on there. And to a degree, I'd say he wasn't harsh enough. 2010 and 2011 will be shitty hell holes policy wise. Lets hope the Jobs bill can get passed just purely due to good wording on the DEMs behalf and the economy gets better.

But at this point, the REPs could say no to the jobs bill and still win even more races in 2010 so that might not happen either.


This is what I fear. IMHO, I give the Dems 6 months to get something done. By July of this year, I can't see them passing anything of significance since the November elections will be right around the corner. If they lose any seats in the Senate (most are expecting at least a few) they will have even less opportunity. This brings us to 2011 and less than 2 years before the next Presidential election. As we all know, hardly anything of significance gets done during this time frame, especially with a democratic leadership that has proven itself to be unwilling to use their testicles in a significant way. Perhaps I just have no understanding of how the Senate works and/or am just being unfairly pessimistic, but I just don't see this current administration being able to get anything of significance done unless they start with HCR.
 

Averon

Member
Godslay said:
I know a lot of people in here don't like to hear this, but I think that this makes a lot of sense and this is what pushed me towards Obama in the first place. It may or may not prove true, but I that is why I voted for the guy. I thought that he would be bipartisan in a fair manner, try to be as pragmatic as possible, and really root out some of the crap that was happening in Washington.

I wanted a lot of things to happen, but when you lose the "supermajority" you have to come back down to Earth and make things happen. That happens to include the Republicans. If Obama can start off on a new foot with the Repubs, and build a solid consensus around things it would be good not only for Obama, but the country in general. Get them working together in a smart manner (Dems and Reps), and he's golden. The far left and the far right might bitch and complain, but what's new?

I have faith if there is anyone in our government right now that can pull this off, it's Obama, but he has to take the first step and rebuild relationships with the Reps. Otherwise I don't see the gridlock breaking, and as Drake so gently puts it there will be plenty of Dem heads rolling next Nov.


:lol :lol :lol

Have you been paying attention at all during this HCR debate? The GOP isn't going to lift a goddamn finger to help Obama on HCR or any major legislation. You're too naive.
 

teiresias

Member
Godslay said:
I know a lot of people in here don't like to hear this, but I think that this makes a lot of sense and this is what pushed me towards Obama in the first place. It may or may not prove true, but I that is why I voted for the guy. I thought that he would be bipartisan in a fair manner, try to be as pragmatic as possible, and really root out some of the crap that was happening in Washington.

I wanted a lot of things to happen, but when you lose the "supermajority" you have to come back down to Earth and make things happen. That happens to include the Republicans. If Obama can start off on a new foot with the Repubs, and build a solid consensus around things it would be good not only for Obama, but the country in general. Get them working together in a smart manner (Dems and Reps), and he's golden. The far left and the far right might bitch and complain, but what's new?

I have faith if there is anyone in our government right now that can pull this off, it's Obama, but he has to take the first step and rebuild relationships with the Reps. Otherwise I don't see the gridlock breaking, and as Drake so gently puts it there will be plenty of Dem heads rolling next Nov.

The absolute blind eye that posts like this turn to the nearly utter shithole the HC bill has become due to concessions made to get Republican votes (that never materialized anyway which makes it all the more ludicrous) astound me. We've just gone through months of debate and rewriting and you say there were no concessions made? Give me a damn break already.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
teiresias said:
The absolute blind eye that posts like this turn to the nearly utter shithole the HC bill has become due to concessions made to get Republican votes (that never materialized anyway which makes it all the more ludicrous) astound me. We've just gone through months of debate and rewriting and you say there were no concessions made? Give me a damn break already.


It's scarily unbelievable how good the GOP is at spreading their talking points, having the media repeat them, and actually getting people to believe blatant lies.

:/
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Godslay said:
I have faith if there is anyone in our government right now that can pull this off, it's Obama, but he has to take the first step and rebuild relationships with the Reps. Otherwise I don't see the gridlock breaking, and as Drake so gently puts it there will be plenty of Dem heads rolling next Nov.

At this point why would REPs work with Obama?
 
quadriplegicjon said:
It's scarily unbelievable how good the GOP is at spreading their talking points, having the media repeat them, and actually getting people to believe latent lies.

:/

What depresses me is that after the Repubs had almost an entire decade to work their magic, people have decided to return to them after only a year. A YEAR! Under Bush's watch, we had 9/11, the worst economic crash since the Great Depression, 2 wars which are still ongoing, Katrina and the horrible response and yet people are still willing to say "HMMM Gimme that!".
 
quadriplegicjon said:
It's scarily unbelievable how good the GOP is at spreading their talking points, having the media repeat them, and actually getting people to believe latent lies.

:/

Its cause everyone in America is in the pockets of Corporations, which don't give a fuck about Americans
 

thefit

Member
LovingSteam said:
What depresses me is that after the Repubs had almost an entire decade to work their magic, people have decided to return to them after only a year. A YEAR! Under Bush's watch, we had 9/11, the worst economic crash since the Great Depression, 2 wars which are still ongoing, Katrina and the horrible response and yet people are still willing to say "HMMM Gimme that!".


Didn't you hear? Brown is a Republican that didn't win for Republicans but for the people not for himself, a Republican. He's independent and won't follow the herd......:lol

You fucking idiots.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
LovingSteam said:
This is what I fear. IMHO, I give the Dems 6 months to get something done. By July of this year, I can't see them passing anything of significance since the November elections will be right around the corner. If they lose any seats in the Senate (most are expecting at least a few) they will have even less opportunity. This brings us to 2011 and less than 2 years before the next Presidential election. As we all know, hardly anything of significance gets done during this time frame, especially with a democratic leadership that has proven itself to be unwilling to use their testicles in a significant way. Perhaps I just have no understanding of how the Senate works and/or am just being unfairly pessimistic, but I just don't see this current administration being able to get anything of significance done unless they start with HCR.

Nope you're not being unfair. You're being realistic. The Dems and the white house need some momentum. Passing HCR would be a great start, but the house Dems seemed focused on not doing that so it's basically over for the next 2.5 years.

IMO Obama could end up being a 7 year lame duck (given that he wins in 2012). I mean at what point will Senate be able to pass anything if they have to have a supermajority just to barely pass stuff.

I can see the REPs saying no for as long as neccessary.
 
thefit said:
Didn't you hear? Brown is a Republican that didn't win for Republicans but for the people not for himself, a Republican. He's independent and won't follow the herd......:lol

You fucking idiots.

Well, as long as he drives a truck, he is ok in my book :lol :lol :lol
 

Averon

Member
LovingSteam said:
What depresses me is that after the Repubs had almost an entire decade to work their magic, people have decided to return to them after only a year. A YEAR! Under Bush's watch, we had 9/11, the worst economic crash since the Great Depression, 2 wars which are still ongoing, Katrina and the horrible response and yet people are still willing to say "HMMM Gimme that!".


I think it's all about repetition. Even if it's ridiculous ("Death Panels!!") and complete bs ("They're ramming this down our throats!!"), if they say it long and loud enough, people will forget how ridiculous it sounds and just start believing there's some validity to it.
 

thefit

Member
LovingSteam said:
Well, as long as he drives a truck, he is ok in my book :lol :lol :lol

I shit you not.

Attorney Scott Brown said in his victory speech:

"Our tax dollars should go to weapons to defeat [terrorists] not lawyers to defend them."

"Raising taxes and giving new rights to terrorists is the wrong agenda for our country."

And his crowd is chanting "yes we can."

He also said that asked Obama if he wanted him to drive the truck down to Washington. ????

Idiots.
 
Averon said:
I think it's all about repetition. Even if it's ridiculous ("Death Panels!!") and complete bs ("They're ramming this down our throats!!"), if they say it long enough, people will forget how ridiculous it sounds and just start believing there's some validity to it.

Pretty much. However, the Republicans wouldn't be able to spread such lies if the democratic leadership had an ounce of desire or understanding of how to combat it. They did an amazing job with the run up to the `08 election and then after they got their man its as if that was it. There was nothing else to work for or push for. Its as though many democrats were satisfied with the man in the Oval Office rather than not being content until something of significance was actually done. I am not one to talk since I voted for McCain but its frustrating to me nevertheless.

thefit said:
I shit you not.



Idiots.

SMH
 

Schattenjäger

Gabriel Knight
GhaleonEB said:
The thing is, it does not matter if we lose the House or not.

The House has passed:

  • Healthcare
  • Energy/cap and trade
  • Education reform
  • Financial regulation reform

The Senate now cannot do any of those things because 41 > 59. So we can keep the House and keep the Senate and continue to have an entirely frozen government. Literally hundreds of Obama's appointees from last year are not yet in place - multiple departments are running on skeleton, temp-laden crews. Obama's entire domestic agenda is now down in flames.

What's going to happen in the next three years will make California look like a well oiled machine. This nation is completely fucked. And we deserve it.

GG, MA.
:lol so would this have been your reaction had Franken lost back in November?

And I don't understand how you all say the dems compromised - There was no intention of compromise from the get-go .... The Louisiana purchase was not compromise
 

Godslay

Banned
sonicmj1 said:
I would have liked to see more bipartisan work done too. But I don't know what else he could have done to make things more bipartisan. What concessions does the Republican party require in order for them to be sure of the President's "sincerity"?

There's only so much the guy can do. He can't become Republican.

I honestly don't know what the Reps want. I hate the idea of political capital as well. There is nothing to be "spent". He wasn't elected to "spend" political capital. He was to go in there is turn the country around, maybe make Washington a little less corrupt, and in the process get some good legislation passed. That should involve everyone there, both Dems and Reps alike.

Now if you cut out a group of people regardless of the number of votes they have, they will be pissed. They still have to report back to their constituents as well. If you let them in on that process, they should have no problem saying to their constituents, " There maybe some things that you don't agree with, but we are working our hardest to come up with a practical solution to x problem, we are working together for you."

It can't be that hard, we've seen it done in the past. He just has to get the Reps involved and let things happen organically, rather than trying to push for something very specific, or letting someone else like Reid push for him. Layout a framework, and get the best solutions from both parties. I might be idealizing things, but it will work if he can get the ball rolling.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Schattenjagger said:
:lol so would this have been your reaction had Franken lost back in November?

And I don't understand how you all say the dems compromised - There was no intention of compromise from the get-go .... The Louisiana purchase was not compromise


So basically you haven't been following the HCR debate have you. There were plenty of compromises.
 
Schattenjagger said:
:lol so would this have been your reaction had Franken lost back in November?

And I don't understand how you all say the dems compromised - There was no intention of compromise from the get-go .... The Louisiana purchase was not compromise

In order to compromise you have to have the second party willing to accept compromise and offer compromises themselves. This wasn't and isn't going to happen with the current Republican leadership, sorry. They are simply going to vote against any type of HCR sponsored by the Democrats. Republicans had many years to offer up HCR and never did. They don't deserve the opportunity to act as though they are concerned or care about it today, especially with their NO NO NO mindset.
 

teiresias

Member
Godslay said:
If you let them in on that process, they should have no problem saying to their constituents, " There maybe some things that you don't agree with, but we are working our hardest to come up with a practical solution to x problem, we are working together for you."

You actually think the current Republican party and the base they're trying to play to is interested in anything you just said here? You need to rethink how genuine anything coming out of their mouths actually is. Their actions don't reflect any interest in anything you've said here.
 
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