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[Y2Kev]

The sooner the Democrat electorate jettisons the Progressive assholes running the show right now, the better for them and our country.

Yes, I totally agree. The progressive party leaders that put together such a fantastic health care bill :lol

 

[140.85]

Democrats do nothing but compromise its why we are were we are. I think at this point we are all pretty much out of outrage at the amount of compromising the Dems have done just in the last year and for what? This? Fuck Reid and fuck emanuel and fuck Obama for listening to them. Progressives voted in the Democrats to run under a progressive agenda and so far they have shat on that and to make things worst whenever anyone suggests that maybe they should be a bit more to the left the powers that be bring up "compromise" as if thats what we voted for.

Obama didn't win because of progressives man. He won because of Republicans and mostly Independents crossing over. And they didn't vote for the stuff he's been doing.

 

[tanod]

Republicans doubled-down after their 'wake-up call.' Seems to have worked for them.

Awesome point!

Totally agree.

 

[Mercury Fred]

The sooner the Democrat electorate jettisons the Progressive assholes running the show right now, the better for them and our country.

:lol

"Progressives"?

The Democrats in power are all but right wing extremists by any standard outside of the Fox News echo chamber that stands in for America's political discourse.

 

[JCX]

So the health care bill might as well be dead now? What will dems do, now that they can't block a filibuster?

 

[140.85]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjpTFpH9FFM

 

[ToxicAdam]

The DLC will rise again!

Of course, the Democrats did weaken the bill with the excuse of attempting to compromise, and excuse that looks silly after the fact: their concessions did not produce any actual reciprocal concessions from the Republicans. But that's not compromise, it's farce.

I don't know if anyone is buying this (I mean, outside of liberals). Compromises were made to appease the center of the Democrat party and hopefully a few Republicans (to hedge against defections) to get the bill through in a fast manner. Everything the Republicans wanted in a HCR bill were ignored in the summer. Harry Reid was hoodwinked into thinking he had everyone on board and got shafted in the end. His overconfidence (or ineptness) is what caused this bill to get dragged out.

"I've got 60!"

 

[thebigtony]

I'm sure you've heard it before; people who make a habit of spouting factually incorrect, constantly disproven rants about tort reform typically do come up against people who are, quite frankly, tired of doing other peoples' homework for them.

And no, "this attitude" is not why this country is misinformed on political issues. Take some personal responsibility for your ignorance and correct it. The idea that anyone else should be responsible for informing you in the Information Age is laughable.

That is the real problem here and it is a major factor in many of the other failings in our society. Depending on other people, particularly corporate media, to relay information to you is exactly why we get a bastardized application of "Fair and Balanced" reporting that presents both sides of every argument as if they are both equally valid.

I concede that you are right on the fact that the people in this country need to become more informed on the issues within the government. However I did not subscribe to this side of tort reform because its has bases within the republican party. I support tort reform because my dad is a doctor. He has seen the outlandish settlements some of his colleagues are afflicted with, and has seen a lot of said settlements are straight up going to the lawyer. I have seen the studies and they are spotty at best. And I do not make a habit of spouting factually incorrect claims. Its one issue. I am sorry if i offended you.

 

[drakesfortune]

I became relegated to Brown's inevitable win over the past couple days, but this still hit like a ton of bricks. Democrats spent half a year trying to get HCR passed only to see it slip away at the one yard line. Something needs to get passed, whether it simply be the Senate bill or something, jeez we just need some sort of infrastructure to get this whole system setup. Ugh, our political system is so damned frustrating.

I know I'm repeating a lot of what's already been said, but jeez, shit sucks!

Here's a novel idea, why don't they...YOU KNOW...COMPROMISE on the mother fucking thing!? Hey!? You know, like Bush did on EVERY issue but tax cuts? It was ALL a compromise. Now it's time to COMPROMISE! This doesn't have to be the end of health care. It DOES have to be the end of arrogant, one party, in your face, bullshit rule. It's done. Time for compromise. If Obama want's health care reform, then it IS time to take th best that both parties have to offer, and combine them in a bill that not all Democrats will support, and no all Republicans will support, but that a MAJORITY in the MIDDLE WILL support. That's what Bush always did. Even on the invasion of Iraq, he always had the middle with him when he made those big decisions. It IS time for Obama to be the guy he said he'd be when he got elected. No more tyranny of the left. It IS done. Radical left Massachusetts agrees with me, that it is time for COMPROMISE and MIDDLE of the road action.

 

[cntr]

Klein suggested that the House could pass the Senate bill, then use reconciliation to change the bill and add the stuff the House wanted. (Perhaps we could add other stuff even, such as the Public Option?)

And according to Weiner, they would agree to something like that:

Two high-profile progressives--Reps. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) and Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)--said the only way they could sign on to the Senate bill is if it was accompanied immediately, or even preceded by, a separate bill, making a number of major preemptive changes to what they regard as an inferior package.

"It would have to be so quick that they happen at the same time," Weiner said. "We're in full whistling past the graveyard mode in there.... They're talking as if, like, what our deal is, what our negotiations are with the White House. Yeah, I mean if the last line is 'pigs fly out ass' or something like that.... We've gotta recognize we have an entirely different scenario tomorrow."

"You should do the other stuff first and then pass the Senate bill," Nadler told me. "I don't see how I could vote for the Senate bill," otherwise.

 

[Y2Kev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjpTFpH9FFM

This has to be full of plants. The health care bill was less ambitious in structure than the plan Obama advocated while he was campaigning. If you voted for Obama and then switched because of the health care bill, you probably should pay attention. And lol at the second guy's point on the private sector funding the public sector. HEADSPIN.

Luntz is such a piece of shit.

The idea that this bill was rammed through anywhere is insane. Something passed overnight or in a day like the PATRIOT Act is rammed through. This has been going on for a year. This is not rammed through.

 

[Cooter]

Well how times change. Wasn't it 90% of this forum declaring the Republican party dead after Obama swept into office? I'm not a huge fan of the repubs but if this is what it takes to slow down Pelosi and crew then I say, right on!

 

[HokieJoe]

If Dems were run by progressives, the the public option would have never been dropped, Lieberman would have lost his committee post and we would had pulled out of Iraq completely months ago.

Obama = Progressive

Reid = Progressive

Pelosi = Progressive

Hillary = Progressive

Progressives own the top leadership positions, and yet, they can't even whip their own party members into shape for any of numerous HC bill iterations. I mean, they never got the point. They kept trying to ramrod idiotic legislation through the Congress that had tenuous at best House/Senate support; and overwhelming disdain from their electorate.

 

[Karma Kramer]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/121593/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-mass-backwards#s-p1-sr-i1

At this point the Dems incompetency can only be explained by my call me crazy theory that the Dems and Republicans both don't want Health Care Reform, and this country is more corrupt and fucked then most Americans believe.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Luntz is awesome. One of the best pollster's in America. He was one of the few that predicted 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjpTFpH9FFM

I'm pretty taken aback at the negative reaction to the health care reform. But not really different than what I hear from co-workers that are 40-60 years of age.


I predict the most nauseating phrase for the 2010 elections will be "send a message to washington". I need to hurry and trademark that phrase and make millions.

 

[cntr]

Here's a novel idea, why don't they...YOU KNOW...COMPROMISE on the mother fucking thing!? Hey!? You know, like Bush did on EVERY issue but tax cuts? It was ALL a compromise. Now it's time to COMPROMISE! This doesn't have to be the end of health care. It DOES have to be the end of arrogant, one party, in your face, bullshit rule. It's done. Time for compromise. If Obama want's health care reform, then it IS time to take th best that both parties have to offer, and combine them in a bill that not all Democrats will support, and no all Republicans will support, but that a MAJORITY in the MIDDLE WILL support. That's what Bush always did. Even on the invasion of Iraq, he always had the middle with him when he made those big decisions. It IS time for Obama to be the guy he said he'd be when he got elected. No more tyranny of the left. It IS done. Radical left Massachusetts agrees with me, that it is time for COMPROMISE and MIDDLE of the road action.

Question: Why is compromise good? The Democrats have been constantly compromising, but I see no real benefit to compromising for the sake of compromise.

 

[140.85]

Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank, a strong supporter of the health care legislation, said Brown’s victory means Congress will have to “start over on health care.” He said he will vote against any bill rushed to the floor before Brown can be sworn in.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-19-Massachusetts-race_N.htm?csp=hf

 

[WickedAngel]

Question: Why is compromise good? The Democrats have been constantly compromising, but I see no real benefit to compromising for the sake of compromise.

You're talking to drakesfortune.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Obama = Progressive

Reid = Progressive

Pelosi = Progressive

Hillary = Progressive

Progressives own the top leadership positions, and yet, they can't even whip their own party members into shape for any of numerous HC bill iterations. I mean, they never got the point. They kept trying to ramrod idiotic legislation through the Congress that had tenuous at best House/Senate support; and overwhelming disdain from their electorate.

You can call someone a progressive all you want, but that's a list of Republican-lites, minus maybe Pelosi.

 

[mernst23]

Yes, Democrats were so liberal when they:

-Agreed to make tax cuts a huge part of the stimulus because that's what conservatives favored

-Committed more troops to Afghanistan despite a near-demand from the liberal wing of the party that he not do so, receiving praise from many conservatives, such as Gingrich and Palin

-Agreed to kill the public option and national health exchange as a means to appease Lieberman

fixed.

 

[Y2Kev]

You can call someone a progressive all you want, but that's a list of Republican-lites, minus maybe Pelosi.

I would agree that only Pelosi should count as a progressive governor.

 

[cntr]

You're talking to drakesfortune.

Might as well try.

 

[RiskyChris]

Obama = Progressive

Reid = Progressive

Pelosi = Progressive

Hillary = Progressive

Progressives own the top leadership positions, and yet, they can't even whip their own party members into shape for any of numerous HC bill iterations. I mean, they never got the point. They kept trying to ramrod idiotic legislation through the Congress that had tenuous at best House/Senate support; and overwhelming disdain from their electorate.

There are no progressives leading this country.

 

[RustyNails]

In Republican land, compromise means "my way or the highway".

 

[ToxicAdam]

This is my favorite part of watching people become politically aware. When they finally realize that being a liberal is akin to being a libertarian in the Republican party.

Poor besada still hasn't recovered when he found out in the mid-90's.

 

[GhaleonEB]

In Republican land, compromise means "my way or the highway".

It is their preference to not pass any bill whatsoever. Recall, they just had eight years of the presidency and six in control of both bodies of Congress. What bill did they produce?

They like the system just fine.

 

[besada]

Reid = Progressive

Reid's a pro-life, pro-DOMA Mormon from Nevada who thinks Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

You seem to have no clear idea of what progressive is if you can manage to lump Hillary, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi into the same group.

Poor besada still hasn't recovered when he found out in the mid-90's

I'm a Texas progressive, which is synonymous with masochist. Cunt.

 

[drakesfortune]

Question: Why is compromise good? The Democrats have been constantly compromising, but I see no real benefit to compromising for the sake of compromise.

Well, did you see the election tonight? Compromise is practical, compromise is DEMOCRACY! If you do not compromise, you do not bring the public with you. If you do not bring the public with you, then the system fails. You can not take over 1/6th of the economy without the public being with you on it.

Let me ask you this, say Dick Cheney becomes president. Would you think that he should not compromise on ANYTHING? If the shoe was on the other foot, do you think Cheney should just do as he pleases? Do you think the country would survive if he did? If not, why do you think it's any different for Obama. He's as left wing as Cheney is right, and he's freaked the people of even Massachusetts out. That's a huge feat for a left wing leader.

 

[Y2Kev]

Cheney is right-wing obama :lol

 

[Karma Kramer]

Well, did you see the election tonight? Compromise is practical, compromise is DEMOCRACY! If you do not compromise, you do not bring the public with you. If you do not bring the public with you, then the system fails. You can not take over 1/6th of the economy without the public being with you on it.

The problem is compromise is an illusion when one side bases its information on propaganda and lies. There is no such thing as democracy in this country anymore, because everyone is too fixated on cheering for their favorite color (red/blue) instead of cheering for logic and truth.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Democrats do nothing but compromise its why we are were we are. I think at this point we are all pretty much out of outrage at the amount of compromising the Dems have done just in the last year and for what? This? Fuck Reid and fuck emanuel and fuck Obama for listening to them. Progressives voted in the Democrats to run under a progressive agenda and so far they have shat on that and to make things worst whenever anyone suggests that maybe they should be a bit more to the left the powers that be bring up "compromise" as if thats what we voted for.

Ummm Obama was campaigning on a bipartisan platform

 

[drakesfortune]

In Republican land, compromise means "my way or the highway".

I'm sorry, but you are crazy. Bush always had a large percentage of Democrats on board with whatever he did outside of ONE tax vote. On prescription drugs, he had a majority of dems, on Afghanistan, a majority of dems, on the Patriot Act all but ONE dem, on Iraq, a majority of dems. Yet now that YOU are in power, you think that compromise was done away with. HELL the Democrats had the POWER to stop Iraq in 2006, in 2007, in 2008, and 2009, and they did NOT stop it. Bush always operated from the middle, despite the mass demonization that occurred from the far left.

What was Bush's greatest sin, the sin that knocked him down in the eyes of the right and left? He didn't listen. He did NOT listen on Social Security. He said he had capital to spend, and he was going to spend it on that. The public was NOT with him on that. He kept pushing to a MUCH lesser degree than we have today on health care from the left. Then he botched Iraq. Then he pushed for immigration reform, which was HUGELY unpopular, and he pushed in the face of opposition from both sides of the aisle. He found himself in the dumpster. Obama will find himself there too, if he does not list to the pragmatic, practical middle, which has spoken tonight.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I'm a Texas progressive, which is synonymous with masochist. Cunt.

Ouch. I hope at least you are close to San Antonio, to soften the blow.

 

[The Chosen One]

I know the WH wanted to tackle HCR in '09 before the election year, but they blew their chance.. At first it was suppose to be signed by August. Then by late September. Then by the end of the year. And now before the MA election result it was "sometime after the State of the Union Address...".

Yeah it might be frustrating to see HCR die on the 5 yard line but the clock expired. The WH already knew the HCR bill had to pass before the end of '09. They failed to do this and now they're paying the price. Instead of dithering with a few rural Senators for 3 months, the WH along with the Dem leadership should have been more forceful and decisive and gave those Senators an ultimatum. The WH simply didn't give enough attention to the expiring clock and now time has run out. They took too long and ultimately became a victim of a fluke special election. But they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Look at the bright side, cap and trade is a fucking dead duck too.

 

[besada]

Ouch. I hope at least you are close to San Antonio, to soften the blow.

Nope DFW. It could only be worse in Houston, but I'd cut my throat before I lived in Houston again.

I've learned to derive sexual pleasure from disappointment, so it works out okay.

 

[Aaron Strife]

why are they saying we need to start over on the bill which is THE WORST THING THEY COULD DO

WHO'S READY FOR 1994 ALL OVER AGAIN GUEST APPEARANCE BY JIMMY CARTER (PLAYED BY OBAMA)

 

[Doc Holliday]

How soon do people forget

Funny how Republicans get chance after chance to fuck things up and whey the do they still get more opportunities. Democrats need to learn to use the media as well as the republicans. Lowest common denominator >>>> Intellectual discourse.

 

[drakesfortune]

Cheney is right-wing obama :lol

That IS how people on the right see him. You can laugh all you want. It is the truth. Listen to Rush, or Hannity. You are the mirror image of those that listen to Rush. They most definitely see Obama in the same light you see Cheney. You may think that's crazy, but I'm guessing that you, like me, would have thought a Republican winning in Mass was impossible a week ago.

It's time to rethink things. Republicans would be stupid to read too much into this victory. This win is a vote for moderation, balance, and a stop to the steamrolling of half the country as has been going on for the last year. It's a vote for balance in the force. It's not a vote for republican ideas, but it IS a vote against democrats doing whatever they please with no support from republicans.

 

[eznark]

This is my favorite part of watching people become politically aware. When they finally realize that being a liberal is akin to being a libertarian in the Republican party.

Poor besada still hasn't recovered when he found out in the mid-90's.

......

keep it up shithead and I'll siphon off some rightie votes in 2010.

 

[drakesfortune]

why are they saying we need to start over on the bill which is THE WORST THING THEY COULD DO

WHO'S READY FOR 1994 ALL OVER AGAIN

You lost Mass because of the tone deafness on the HC issue. You think it will get better if you continue to go down that destructive path? That's NUTS. It makes no sense...at ALL! Hey, if you just punch your wife one more time, she'll forgive and truly love you then. Ooooookay.

In 1994 Republicans would not have DREAMED of taking a senate seat in Mass. Jeesh. There is a MASS Tsunami coming if Dems don't drop it, and change course.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Question: Why is compromise good? The Democrats have been constantly compromising, but I see no real benefit to compromising for the sake of compromise.

So you won't lose any more liberal seats to the GOP

 

[besada]

......

keep it up shithead and I'll siphon off some rightie votes in 2010.

You have to learn to open up that disappointment chakra and awaken your kundalini shakti. Feels good man.

 

[empty vessel]

Obama = Progressive

Reid = Progressive

Pelosi = Progressive

Hillary = Progressive

A lot of people have already responded to this, and I'll just add that if you want to know what a progressive is, ask a progressive. We don't claim the people you listed. We do claim Anthony Weiner, Dennis Kucinich, and a handful of others. It's not like we're trying to pull a fast one on you. We're telling you who we do consider to be actual progressives, and they aren't these people, all of whom I consider right of center.

So you won't lose any more liberal seats to the GOP

That isn't why they lost. If anything, it contributed to their loss.

 

[ToxicAdam]

......

keep it up shithead and I'll siphon off some rightie votes in 2010.

Oh, I'm sorry. I feel like I just told you there was no Santa Claus.

 

[Averon]

WTF? Do people really think the GOP are going to compromise with the Dems in good faith after what happened tonight? In the GOP's eyes, their tactics of stalling and vilifying HCR was justified tonight; it won them a senate seat--Ted Kennedy's senate seat. They have even less reason politically to compromise with the Dems now.

 

[cntr]

Well, did you see the election tonight? Compromise is practical, compromise is DEMOCRACY! If you do not compromise, you do not bring the public with you. If you do not bring the public with you, then the system fails. You can not take over 1/6th of the economy without the public being with you on it.

I would want good legislation. I wouldn't compromise if going so would give me bad or worse legislation. Compromise* should only happen if it's impossible to do anything; I would only listen to the other side if they'd give me a good idea.

*In the sense of "both sides making concessions"

 

[thefit]

It is their preference to not pass any bill whatsoever. Recall, they just had eight years of the presidency and six in control of both bodies of Congress. What bill did they produce?

They like the system just fine.

So they got their broken system kinda back with this win. You think there's enough time between now and November to vilify the GOP enough and get the knee jerk public running back to the Democrats or at least minimize losses?

 

[mckmas8808]

I'mma laugh so fucking hard when these old fucks lose their Medicare because nobody wants to actually handle the situation. :lol

America is going the way of California. You can't govern this peice of shit country anymore.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Dow Chemical to release solar shingles this fall, thanks to a DOE tax credit.


Still costlier than other setups, but hopefully the aesthetic appeal can be marketed to early adopters and drive down costs.