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[UltimaKilo]

When I pointed out that McCain needs her to get out and talk to the press and prove she's no token, I also pointed out that she needs to be able to hold her own against Biden.

She's certainly got an uphill battle at this point, with all the scandal and media backlash, but she lives or dies based on how she fares tomorrow and in that debate.

Also, McCain can't afford to be skipping out on Larry King; he needs to be open and take on his challengers directly.

Hey Jaydubya, there was talk that you were going to be at Ron Paul's rally today, any truth to that?

 

[Cloudy]

Technically, they can make that argument as she was the head of the Alaskan National Guard. I'm not saying that it means anything, but technically she has...

I'm pretty sure Governors don't have sole control of the National Guard in their states (The Federal govt. has the last say IIRC) Anyways, this argument that she has more experience than Obama is intellectually and factually bankrupt..

 

[Gary Whitta]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing_car_wash.html

the gift that keeps on giving

LOL and the car wash went out of business. I am looking forward to this growing into the inevitable Dem talking point that she couldn't even run a car wash. :lol :lol :lol

 

[thekad]

ok, "no one" is stretching it, southern racists certainly thought it was equality, and usually too much equality. Still though, it required follow up legislation again and again afterwards, heck, black men didn't explicitly have the right to vote or the explicit rights of citizenship until the 15th amendment, and even THEN it took the civil rights act of 1964 to truly give people rights on the federal level.

Thekad - Read Brown v. Board of Ed

... Are you arguing two conflicting positions at the same time?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Can you name one accomplishment she's achieved when she held those positions?

*from the back of the room* O, O, ask him about her National Guard experience, too.

Edit: this thread fucking MOVES

 

[bishoptl]

The reason it works, in my view is because I believe in marriage equality, not in civil unions. The problem with Obama is he views civil unions as an end. The effect of McCain, who is absolutely atrocious on gay rights would be to energize the marriage equality movement. The effect of Obama would be to energize the notion that 95% equality is ok.

What I want to know though is, if some state decided to give interracial and minority (opposite sex) couples civil unions identical to what Obama wants to give gay couples, but reserved marriage only for white couples would that be constitutional in Obama's worldview? As I said, McCain is bad for gay rights today, Obama is bad for gay rights tomorrow.

You sound exactly like the Klansmen who predict an Obama victory energizing their base as well. Wow.

 

[qwertybob]

McCain and the GOP turning down interviews is just going to cause them to pile on harder.

maybe they can go and hide in Alaska until the election is over :lol

 

[Gaborn]

... Are you arguing two conflicting positions at the same time?

What conflict do you see? I believe in equality for individuals, black or white, gay or straight, the right to marry is a universal human right, and there's no reason to deny it. I don't think abolishing slavery was an end game for civil rights in the least, do you? It was a major step, but it was not an end game. Most people thought that was where it WOULD end, but they didn't think that because it was full and total equality, did they? Again if all you give is some sort of snide one line response I won't feel the need to discuss your argument because you're not seriously addressing this.

Bishop - if you like, only I believe this time McCain's horrible record on civil rights for gays will do that.

 

[Guy Legend]

The possibly future son-in-law of the Veep

On his MySpace page, [Levi] Johnston [alleged father of Bristol's new baby] boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ---," he added.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...Sarah-Palins-granchild-a-bad-boy-redneck.html

:lol

 

[UltimaKilo]

LOL and the car wash went out of business. I am looking forward to this growing into the inevitable Dem talking point that she couldn't even run a car wash. :lol :lol :lol

Well you wouldn't want her to bee too successful, who knows how many houses she might then own! :lol

 

[JayDubya]

Hey Jaydubya, there was talk that you were going to be at Ron Paul's rally today, any truth to that?

Huh?

I'd love to have been there, but that's damn far.

 

[Dan]

Technically, they can make that argument as she was the head of the Alaskan National Guard. I'm not saying that it means anything, but technically she has...

It's quite a stretch when the Alaska National Guard's general says he and Palin make no decisions whatsoever about the Guard when it comes to national defense and overseas deployment. She can call some shots when it comes to local emergencies, but it isn't like she had to call them in to take care of city-wide riots or anything.

 

[TDG]

I don't know if McCain's really delusional enough to think that not going through with being on Larry King Live is going to get the media to back off, but he's only hurting himself here. Larry King is not going to press McCain hard, that was McCain's chance to get positive coverage. Stupid.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

The possibly future son-in-law of the Veep

On his MySpace page, [Levi] Johnston [alleged father of Bristol's new baby] boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ---," he added.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...Sarah-Palins-granchild-a-bad-boy-redneck.html

:lol

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIMJWupyWNmvU3UX2aGhICmZrQ_wD92UQKS81

WASILLA, Alaska (AP) — Bristol Palin's boyfriend plans to join the family of the Republican vice presidential candidate at the GOP convention.

Levi Johnston's mother said her 18-year-old son left Alaska on Tuesday morning to join the Palin family in St. Paul, Minn.

Sherry Johnston also said there has been no pressure put on her son to marry Bristol Palin, the pregnant daughter of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

"Absolutely not," Sherry Johnston told reporters outside the family's Wasilla home. Johnston said the two teens already had plans to marry before they knew she was pregnant.

Sarah Palin announced Monday that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter was pregnant. The father was not identified beyond the first name of Levi.

Man, this shit gets weirder and weirder :lol :lol

 

[speculawyer]

:lol cnn brought up mccains wandering eyes. surprising

Is it just mere coincidence that both Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin are former beauty pageant winners? Does this reflect McCain's psychology at all?


I know . . . the rest of us are just sexist.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Wow, nice McCain clip on MSNBC right now. When you're being bombarded with questions that force you to give answers like "My vetting process was completely thorough" you've got to be wondering if you should have done things differently.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Zuh?

Was a joke based on that video posted with that crazy woman on larry king arguing with james carville. Anything he brought up about palin's lack of experience, she countered with "SHES A WOMAN!" and basically kept saying Carville was sexist. Keep in mind Carville supported Hilary Clinton for president.

 

[speculawyer]

Man, this shit gets weirder and weirder :lol :lol

Must resist temptation to post anything from the beginning of the Idiocracy. :lol

 

[polyh3dron]

Holy shit, Rick Davis is pushing this whole "Country First" thing hard.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Was a joke based on that video posted with that crazy woman on larry king arguing with james carville. Anything he brought up about palin's lack of experience, she countered with "SHES A WOMAN!" and basically kept saying Carville was sexist. Keep in mind Carville supported Hilary Clinton for president.

That is their refrain now. So pitiful.....

 

[The Librarian]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIMJWupyWNmvU3UX2aGhICmZrQ_wD92UQKS81



Man, this shit gets weirder and weirder :lol :lol

That dude Levi seems like a huge prick.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I don't know if McCain's really delusional enough to think that not going through with being on Larry King Live is going to get the media to back off, but he's only hurting himself here. Larry King is not going to press McCain hard, that was McCain's chance to get positive coverage. Stupid.

He was on Larry King Live a few weeks ago and on Foxnews Sunday this last Sunday. I don't agree with skipping the interview, but it's not like nobody has been able to get a hold of him. He also said he couldn't wait to see Sarah Palin on Foxnews Sunday and Meet the Press.

 

[HylianTom]

Must resist temptation to post anything from the beginning of the Idiocracy. :lol

It would be funny to see a highlight reel of the campaign with everyone's IQs shown on the bottom of the screen..

 

[thekad]

I don't think abolishing slavery was an end game for civil rights in the least, do you? It was a major step, but it was not an end game.

And that's why it serves as an able, though exaggerated, example of why your argument that Obama giving gays in civil unions the rights of married couples an effective - but not satisfactory - end to the gay rights movement ridiculous.

You've been disproving yourself this entire time, which is what was confusing the hell out of me.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Dana Perino & Sarah Palin!

 

[v1cious]

:lol

 

[qwertybob]

That dude Levi seems like a huge prick.

possible speaking role at convention for Levi ?

Ya democrats fuck with me I'll kick ass!

 

[Price Dalton]

On MSNBC, Rick Davis just referred to "Governor Failin." Freudian slip much?

 

[speculawyer]

Well you wouldn't want her to bee too successful, who knows how many houses she might then own! :lol

What are you talking about? To get lots of houses, all you do is marry someone that is rich!

 

[UltimaKilo]

Huh?

I'd love to have been there, but that's damn far.

Hmm I don't know where that came from. Someone said it while you were gone...

 

[Incognito]

Don't you see that the simple argument of comparing experience and judgement between the top of the Dem's ticket and the bottom of the Republican's is an argument the Republican are loving?

Yeah, looks like it's really working well for them!

IOKIYAR!

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

 

[Gary Whitta]

He also said he couldn't wait to see Sarah Palin on Foxnews Sunday and Meet the Press.

I don't think the death of Tim Russert really hit me until I read this. Holy crap, how I would have loved to see that interview.

 

[Cyan]

You sound exactly like the Klansmen who predict an Obama victory energizing their base as well. Wow.

Nah, this is classic cognitive dissonance.

 

[The Librarian]

possible speaking role at convention for Levi ?

Ya democrats fuck with me I'll kick ass!

:lol That would be amazing.

 

[WickedAngel]

:lol

So it begins.

 

[FlyinJ]

I can't wait for the Sarah Palin/Harriet Miers ticket in 2012

 

[Gaborn]

And that's why it serves as an able, though exaggerated, example of why your argument that Obama giving gays in civil unions the rights of married couples an effective - but not satisfactory - end to the gay rights movement ridiculous.

You've been disproving yourself this entire time, which is what was confusing the hell out of me.

That's NOT what Obama thinks though, is it? See, I believe the danger in Obama on the issue is in part the rhetoric he uses to convince people of his position. First, it's probably wise to assume people gravitate more towards moderate positions, if you define marriage equality at one end, and a constitutional ban on SSM at the other, the moderate position is probably Obama's. The PROBLEM is that when you couch rhetoric such as he is within a framework of "equal rights" RATHER THAN presenting it as a STEP towards equal rights you're saying that with civil unions you're not moving in the direction of equality, you're claiming that if you go with civil unions you have NO NEED to go forward. The entire purpose of marriage equality is to make the case that marriage equality is the ultimate goal. Obama is undercutting that with his belief that we only need to give gays the legal rights and can withhold the title just from gays.

Which makes me repeat my question. Do you believe if some random state decided to take away marriage rights from blacks and interracial couples in favor of giving them only civil unions that Obama would support or oppose it and what rationale would he use?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

:lol

Sweet

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Anyone know why this link is down? Every website posting the topic uses this as the source:

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html

It's the link to questionaire on Palin/founding fathers/under god.

 

[Father_Brain]

As I said, McCain is bad for gay rights today, Obama is bad for gay rights tomorrow.

Other people are addressing the rest of this post, but you know what would really be bad for gay rights tomorrow? A theocratic Supreme Court, like the one McCain has pledged to appoint.

As I said in response to one of your previous posts on the subject, it's rather odd how judicial nominations tend to be ignored by gaybertarians and Log Cabin types trying to argue that the Democrats are as bad as (or worse than) the GOP on gay rights.

 

[Haunted]

So, I've been gone for the day - what's the consensus on Palin in the media?

Good pick, bad pick? Helping McCain gain votes in November or not? Or do we have to wait until after the VP debate for results on this.

 

[greepoman]

Maybe we can fix her with a few simple steps:

 

[Father_Brain]

Which makes me repeat my question. Do you believe if some random state decided to take away marriage rights from blacks and interracial couples in favor of giving them only civil unions that Obama would support or oppose it and what rationale would he use?

This is just a bizarre analogy. Obama's positions on DOMA and the CA amendment make clear that, at the very least, he will do nothing to take away marriage rights from anyone who's been granted them.

 

[qwertybob]

Anyone know why this link is down? Every website posting the topic uses this as the source:

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html

It's the link to questionaire on Palin/founding fathers/under god.

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...tml&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

 

[Nabs]

Anyone know why this link is down? Every website posting the topic uses this as the source:

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html

It's the link to questionaire on Palin/founding fathers/under god.

google that link, and hit the "cached" link

 

[Gaborn]

Other people are addressing the rest of this post, but you know what would really be bad for gay rights tomorrow? A theocratic Supreme Court, like the one McCain has pledged to appoint.

As I said in response to one of your previous posts on the subject, it's rather odd how judicial nominations tend to be ignored by gaybertarians and Log Cabin types trying to argue that the Democrats are as bad as (or worse than) the GOP on gay rights.

I don't believe, ultimately that marriage equality will come through the court system.

Also, regarding DOMA and the CA marriage amendment - it's still ultimately threatening to support civil unions on the federal level because that gives states that aren't required to adopt marriage the incentive to stigmatize us like Obama wants to.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Is it just mere coincidence that both Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin are former beauty pageant winners? Does this reflect McCain's psychology at all?


I know . . . the rest of us are just sexist.

No, there's definitely a pattern here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html

She is McCain’s first wife, Carol, who was a famous beauty and a successful swimwear model when they married in 1965.

 

[BoboBrazil]

 

[harSon]

That's NOT what Obama thinks though, is it? See, I believe the danger in Obama on the issue is in part the rhetoric he uses to convince people of his position. First, it's probably wise to assume people gravitate more towards moderate positions, if you define marriage equality at one end, and a constitutional ban on SSM at the other, the moderate position is probably Obama's. The PROBLEM is that when you couch rhetoric such as he is within a framework of "equal rights" RATHER THAN presenting it as a STEP towards equal rights you're saying that with civil unions you're not moving in the direction of equality, you're claiming that if you go with civil unions you have NO NEED to go forward. The entire purpose of marriage equality is to make the case that marriage equality is the ultimate goal. Obama is undercutting that with his belief that we only need to give gays the legal rights and can withhold the title just from gays.

Which makes me repeat my question. Do you believe if some random state decided to take away marriage rights from blacks and interracial couples in favor of giving them only civil unions that Obama would support or oppose it and what rationale would he use?

What kind of fucked up comparison is this? You're comparing the removal of rights with the giving of rights, they're not the same thing, not even close.