Polygon: "After a Half-Hour with The Last Guardian, I'm Concerned"

Tain said:
Maybe if the dude could more accurately pinpoint what he didn't like about the movement mechanics people would be more receptive.

Saying that it "feels awkward" and that the main character "lurches" doesn't sound far off from common complaints about "archaic" control schemes, so it doesn't surprise me that so many aren't putting much weight into his impressions.
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That sounds pretty specific already...
 
I want this to play and feel exactly like a Team Ico game, and that's what it sounds like to me. Which is perfect!
 
jet1911 said:
I'minstantly reminded of that famous Uncharted 3 review thread after the Eurogamer score.
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This thread itself is pretty similar to when Eurogamer gave a not so great preview of The Order. Not everyone is going to like this type of game or controls, especially if they haven't changed since SoTC. Love the series and especially SoTC, but I know it's not gonna be something everyone is going to want to deal with, not everyone is going to enjoy the janky animations and controls.
 
I'm ready to hear about why this game may not be great (and there are some decent arguments for Ico and SotC not being great), but I VERY OFTEN disagree with gaming press about movement mechanics so without good details I'm skeptical that they'll be a problem for me.

UnemployedVillain said:
That sounds pretty specific already...
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It sounds like Ico's stumbling scrappy movement and roughly uncertain jumping, frankly. I thought Ico's movement mechanics were a good fit for the game, and I'm hardly the only one, so it would have helped to explain why they may not work here.
 
The mess that will unfold if this game isn't the master piece people are expecting will dwarf No Man Sky's debacle. The defensiveness is already arising.
 
Put me in the crowd that absolutely loves controls that help induce a particular feeling. Here, I think nervousness is the intended emotion, but nervousness should give way to trust as the player bonds with Trico; they can take more risks because they can trust that Trico can get them out of it but that sort of emotion can't exist if the relationship didn't actually develop.
 
These games are always more than the sum of their parts. Previews probably aren't the ideal way to experience TLG.

Still, you have to ask why this game was stuck in development hell. What problems were they running into conceptually that maybe they weren't able to solve?

There's reason to be skeptical, but this preview isn't the reason for me.
 
Dargor said:
I'm at work right now, so I cant open gaming sites nor youtube, but there was an interview by IGN with Fumito Ueda where he said that the game wasn't always in active development.

The name of the interview is "The Last Guardian: 10 years in the making", its on youtube, IIRC.
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Perfect. Right there at the start of the video. Thanks. Didn't know there was a series of videos done on this. I've actually met the composer a few times before, didn't know he was working on this...
 
Toxi said:
Nah, that long dialogue shit's just obnoxious and is more comparable to having to often go through a bunch of long loading screens to do things like save or change your gear in Monster Hunter, or having to go through two loading screens just to warp between lanterns in Bloodborne.
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It's the same discussion insofar that it's clunky by design, which in DQ's case is for the verbose middle age RPG aesthetic with an in-game reasoning of how saving works.

Platformer character movement and physics are a very old debate. Some games work well with tight and responsive controls because the maps are designed to take advantage of it, while others that have a greater feel of acceleration into movement (e.g. classic Prince of Persia) provides a unique gameplay challenge in its own world design. The Polygon guy probably just prefers the former.
 
Melkr_ said:
The mess that will unfold if this game isn't the master piece people are expecting will dwarf No Man Sky's debacle. The defensiveness is already arising.
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Ugh. No man's sky promised features that aren't released in the final game. The only time I see this game review lowly is the pacing, level framework, Trico and camera controls.
 
Could not give less of a shit about this game, but, when has 30 minutes ever been enough of a chance to preview a game, outside of a walking simulator?

Like, how is that even enough time to get concerned? You barely played it.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
I beat a few Colossus and still hated Agros controls
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What does that have to do with my opinion of the game? You not enjoying it does nothing to my enjoyment of it. To that point why should I let one previewer form my opinion on this game?

Edit: I actually warmed to the controls. 30 minutes wasn't enough time to do that though
 
Cave Johnson said:
Please give us your account with past Team ICO's games and what exactly do you mean by "compelling"? From the previews that got released there's a lot of compelling reasons why a Team ICO fan would be excited for this game.
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You're right. I haven't played prior Team ICO games. I own SotC and the remaster but never got round to playing them.

That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it though, lol.
 
The point of the game is to feel like a mix of Ico and Sotc, the controls sound a lot like those in these games. In Ico the kid has imprecise movements with a lot of lag to underline the fact it was kid, not a trained solider. And it wasn't because it was a PS2 game. Not sure what they were expecting, the kid to move like in Uncharted or COD?
I think that some people have the wrong expectations on this game, it's basically go play the Ico/Sotc collection on PS3 and if you don't like these games it's very likely you won't like TLG as well.
 
Man-is-Obsolete said:
What does that have to do with my opinion of the game? You not enjoying it does nothing to my enjoyment of it. To that point why should I let one previewer form my opinion on this game?
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Because a human being can talk about his 30-45 minute experience. He did not talk about things he did not experience. It was literal just about his time with the game so far. That is what Sony give him and that is what he is talking about.
 
Zafir said:
You're right. I haven't played prior Team ICO games. I own SotC and the remaster but never got round to playing them.

That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it though, lol.
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No one is saying you can't have an opinion. But the weight of your opinion will be judged by the context it indicates.
 
ViciousDS said:
Must be polygons first go at a Team ICO game lol
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I don't mean to single you out as this sentiment has been offered frequently in this thread. But my response would just be that even if true, this doesn't invalidate the complaint. And it's also possible that they have played a Team ICO game before. However, it's been 11 years since Shadows of the Colossus and 15 since ICO. It's not outrageous to assume that progress has been made on this front in all the time since those games released on PS2.

The flip side is that to fans, perhaps these types of controls are part of the charm of a Team ICO game. And that's okay too. One of the things that I wish we could accomplish in reviews and impressions threads is understanding that we don't have to agree on things. If I say "I like that thing" and you say "I don't like that thing" we are not necessarily at some impasse that needs resolution by an arbiter. These are just subjective takes.
 
So this is another one of those game where everything shitty about it was intentional "and a part of the experience"?

I found the other 2 games almost unplayable because they really felt quite shitty in terms of controls.
 
Eh, so Kollar didn't have the best impression about the controls and interacting with Trico...I'm not really that concerned. He didn't mention if he's played SOTC or ICO and didn't compare their controls, but from what he described that sounds about right for an Ueda game. It'll be interesting to see if Trico pays more attention to your commands as the bond between it and the player increases over the game. I could see his reluctance to listen being a bit grating over the course of an entire game, but maybe I'll be wrong if it does indeed show itself to be the case.
 
The writer sounds like he/she never played ICO/SOTC before. The momentum in the movement described seems to be what I would have expected from this game.
 
nOoblet16 said:
The problem here is that those were PS2 games that's two generations old at this point...and they had that kind of movement because it was difficult to do realistic movement without exaggerating it like that in those days due to limitation of hardware.

Basically, if it was ok in 2001/2005 does not necessarily make it just as appealing in 2016.

SOTC averaged 15-17fps and people still loved the game (even if it wasn't really a big commercial success) but if it were to come out today it would get panned so hard and most people wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick, despite being a good game because standards have changed.
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But SotC is still better than most everything coming out these days.....
 
It's fine if you don't like the contols. It's still a pretty niche game anyway not a flagship release (it being a meme game does not change this). It's a game made for fans of Ueda games.
 
InsaneTiger said:
Polygon is the absolute worst, I don't trust their thoughts or opinions whatsoever.
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Your edited post is not any better.

Anyway, I agree with the guy expecting changes in 2016. I guess he was taken back that not much progress has been made in the controls.

I am sure old fans will love it but I am not sure if it will attract new players.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I want to highlight this post just to make a general point: if the only thing you have to contribute to a thread like this is to criticize the outlet, don't respond. This type of shitposting results in constant bans.
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True enough. My bad. The game is rooted in gameplay developed on the PS2 so I understand the complaint but that is just how the game plays. Perhaps they were expecting something to a little more modern which is not totally unreasonable. It is 2016 and we have come a long way, but I am bit nostalgic about ICO and SoTC so I might have been a bit defensive.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I don't mean to single you out as this sentiment has been offered frequently in this thread. But my response would just be that even if true, this doesn't invalidate the complaint. And it's also possible that they have played a Team ICO game before. However, it's been 11 years since Shadows of the Colossus and 15 since ICO. It's not outrageous to assume that progress has been made on this front in all the time since those games released on PS2.

The flip side is that to fans, perhaps these types of controls are part of the charm of a Team ICO game. And that's okay too. One of the things that I wish we could accomplish in reviews and impressions threads is understanding that we don't have to agree on things. If I say "I like that thing" and you say "I don't like that thing" we are not necessarily at some impasse that needs resolution by an arbiter. These are just subjective takes.
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Hey a reasonable assessment. What's this doing here?
 
Exile20 said:
Your edited post is not any better.

Anyway, I agree with the guy expecting changes in 2016. I guess he was taken back that not much progress has been made in the controls.

I am sure old fans will love it but I am not sure if it will attract new players.
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Agreed. It was an reactionary response. If I get banned so be it. Back to work.
 
Exile20 said:
Your edited post is not any better.

Anyway, I agree with the guy expecting changes in 2016. I guess he was taken back that not much progress has been made in the controls.

I am sure old fans will love it but I am not sure if it will attract new players.
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Well it literally exists because of the fans. It's not a flagship game.
 
Neoleo2143 said:
Put me in the crowd that absolutely loves controls that help induce a particular feeling. Here, I think nervousness is the intended emotion, but nervousness should give way to trust as the player bonds with Trico; they can take more risks because they can trust that Trico can get them out of it but that sort of emotion can't exist if the relationship didn't actually develop.
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So we are now saying that developers use shitty control schemes so that they evoke a certain emotion in the game and it is all by design? We've gone full circle in coming up with ways to defend something.

The only thing that shitty player control can do to a game is completely pull you out of it.

If you want to evoke a certain emotion in a game, you do it via art direction, score, sound effects, story, gameplay and player choice. You don't do it by making the character impossible to control.
 
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