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[mattp]

phil has been on fucking fire the past week, i'm pissed these assholes did this and now i don't get to enjoy his twitter rants

if any of the stuff he posts on twitter offends you, you need to fucking lighten up
not to mention you all know he was ranting because a group of fucking assholes were tormenting his friend and spreading lies and her nudes everywhere, right?
oh but yeah, phil fish is an asshole etc etc

 

[jabuseika]

I'm very lttp on this. Is this what spurred the #welovegamedevs thing on twitter at the moment?

Not exactly this.
But related to this.

People are just sick of all the negative that transpired over the last few days.

 

[megalowho]

Wait just a damn minute here. You've basically saying he had a free pass to cyberbully people and if it hurts them, that's their problem. That flies in the face of everything people are taught about cyberbullying and frankly I am surprised to see anyone try to play that card here in 2014.

Putting words in my mouth much?

Most people do not have a strong opinion of Phil Fish, nor his twitter account. They just don't post about it.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Please dont cyberbully me, this is a safe place to discuss issues. Not for personal attacks.

Holy cow. Why is everyone taking cyber bullying so lightly. Hey darkwhitehair, I don't think it's cyber bullying unless it's personal and they refer to your real name! And not when they just call you out on your post.

 

[YianGaruga]

I'm responding to the screenshot, doesn't look like a grievous cyber bullying attempt to me. Its clearly meant to be funny. Are you saying he, or anyone for that matter deserved this?

I'm not saying he deserved this at all. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I'm just telling you he was serious with those tweets and those weren't an isolated incident. He has been insulting many, many people on twitter like that.

 

[Azure Dream]

You are. He said:"If gaming was a building I would burn it to the ground." I would say the same thing but replacing gaming with internet. Maybe from the ashes something a bit less toxic would rise.

No, that's not what he said. He said:

"i wish videogames was a building so i could burn it down with all you people in it." (emphasis mine)

Not implying that justifies anything at all, but you did leave an important detail out. You could argue the extent of "you people", of course, and he's not speaking literally.

Spoiler

Probably?

 

[Griddlelol]

Really? Fairies?

First off, what does this have to do with polytron/fish getting hacked? And second, you're batshit crazy/awful.

I can't stop reading you posts in Sanchez's voice. You're the best.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Was I out of line or are you saying I'm prone to anger? I wouldn't say so, I really enjoy my heated arguments and don't get frustrated when I fail to change people minds nor does resentment grow over time.

Forgive me if I'm confusing you with someone else with a Wesker avatar. If I recall correctly, you're the sort of person who spends a decent amount of time articulating their opinion on a given topic, often aggressively (if not angrily) against the tide of the conversation. You're willing to put in some effort. And now I find you painting people who apply that same tact on issues relating to actual human empathy in ugly, broad strokes? That's disheartening. When I worked in retail, I was never offended by the person who got angry when we were sold out of their favourite movie or threatened to call the manager because their game took an extra day to arrive from interstate. For all I knew, the world never asked more of them beforehand. They might be perfectly rational agents in their own life. They might not know any better. I disrespected them for it, but I was never offended. I am, however, offended when I see people who should know better saying thoughtless, careless, lazy things. Particularly when those things relate to general human empathy --- encouraging others to broaden their own empathetic range, for example.

We can do better.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

How dare you? Mental illness is never annoying. #EmpathyNotAnnoyanceForDementia

Listen man, for those of us affected in some way by dementia in family members or other situations, just leave it. I can't imagine you'll last long here anyway.

 

[Talyn]

Putting words in my mouth much?

"Most people don't give a shit. If someone takes the things he says online personally it says more about them than it does about Phil."

Show me exactly where I put words into your mouth.

 

[Surt]

No one is above a ass kicking. Shouting matches usually end with a fist at someone face in the real world. I would consider this as phil getting decked for being the tool that he is.

I don't feel bad for him. You want to crusade. You think your cause is holy then thou? then except all consequences for your actions. I would also say the same for those who hacked him.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

phil phish....

I really shouldn't be laughing at this but it is so simple but effective.

 

[BigDes]

People are taking my comments as if im stating facts that I believe... I dont know what the hell happened and dont claim to. But this is Phil Fish... I think skepticism is perfectly valid and warranted. He craves attention, cancels games because people bothered him about it. I thought he left the industry? Why is Polytron still active? What would he have to gain by this hack?

Im not calling fish a liar or fraud, but there is room for doubt.

This is Fox News levels of discourse here.

I'm not saying he did it but if you look at it through this conspiracy theorist angle then look he totally did it!

The website is still open because you can still buy Fez from there.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I'm not saying he deserved this at all. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I'm just telling you he was serious with those tweets and those weren't an isolated incident. He has been insulting many, many people on twitter like that.

It's your right to believe that I guess, but to me it feels like you are just over analyzing the average silly tweet he made and comparing it to some of the more controversial, mean spirited ones he is guilty of. I still don't see what your point is though.

 

[ab.aeterno]

I feel like it goes both ways. There are people on both sides that eventually just end up name-calling or doing other silly shit. The hacking situation is definitely worse than just name-calling, but there is a lack of discourse on both sides that makes me think "Well, they handled that maturely."

Everyone looks bad, and it's fucked.

This idea of "well both sides have bad eggs!" is one of the most toxic things to discussion and it really needs to stop. It's useless hand-wringing that falsely equates the two and offers nothing constructive. Because let's be clear: there is an impossibly large gulf of difference between a campaign targeting people to expose their information and harass them, and people reacting to that fucking disgusting behavior for what it is, and equating the two, intentionally or not, is kind of ridiculous.

But I can't stand agendas. the one's that can't stand on their own two feet without censoring any one that challenges them. I always thought very little of kotaku after that whole dragons crown fiasco that led me to go on their site and ask them what kind of fairies were they?

You'll have to run that one by me again.

 

[BigDes]

No one is above a ass kicking. Shouting matches usually end with a fist at someone face in the real world. I would consider this as phil getting decked for being the tool that he is.

I don't feel bad for him. You want to crusade. You think your cause is holy then thou? then except all consequences for your actions. I would also say the same for those who hacked him.

Only if you're an idiot with impulse control problems.

 

[Fehyd]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

 

[ptuck874]

http://i.imgur.com/VeLuwV5.jpg

 

[darkwhitehair]

Listen man, for those of us affected in some way by dementia in family members or other situations, just leave it. I can't imagine you'll last long here anyway.

I get it, ya'll are just intimidated by the opinions of a strong woman of color. I understand, looks like Jim Crow is still alive in certain parts of the internet.
#Ferguson

What project do you think Phil was working on with Olly Moss? Do you think we will ever see a Fez 2? Please like and subscribe and comment below.

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

What's with all the victim blaming? Just because he had a difference in opinion means that he was "asking for it"?

http://a.pomf.se/vtrlzg.webm

http://youtu.be/nwfyzG59qsc?t=23s

 

[Easy_D]

I just had this realization.

When 4chan says "This game is for retarded manchildren who should kill themselves"

"Oh that's just /v/ jargon, it's usually sarcasm"

When Phil Fish says (NOTE PARAPHRASED) "Ewwwww Gross youtube nerd"

"OMG Phil Fish sucks why does he hate the people who made him successful!?!?"

Now, why's that?

 

[ponpo]

I get it, ya'll are just intimidated by the opinions of a strong woman of color. I understand, looks like Jim Crow is still alive in certain parts of the internet.
#Ferguson

What project do you think Phil was working on with Olly Moss? Do you think we will ever see a Fez 2? Please like and subscribe and comment below.

http://a.pomf.se/vtrlzg.webm

 

[Antiwhippy]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

I didn't think that annoyed gamer came out of it smelling like roses either. They both looked like idiots.

Again though, why does this matter in this particular case?

 

[gngf123]

http://i.imgur.com/VeLuwV5.jpg

again:

You didn't verify any of this either.

As has been pointed out a few times in this thread; Cloudflare two factor authentication is an optional feature.

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200167866-What-is-Authy-2-Factor-Authentication-

 

[Ingueferroque]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

Grace? He is an indie game developer.. He doesn't need to do anything, he should be nice, but I guess that's not his persona or character. Still, he can do what he wants, it's just his Twitter account.

People who actively hate him have issues, people who think he deserved what happened here? Probably either not mature enough to understand or empathize enough...

 

[jiiikoo]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

I agree. It is not about whether or not he deserved it, but saying that Phil didn't have a part in this isn't the truth. His own actions lead people to take this course of action, which I am not condoning in any shape or form.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

Not really equal.

I never said it was. "Not as shitty" is still shitty, though.

 

[Fehyd]

I didn't think that annoyed gamer came out of it smelling like roses either. They both looked like idiots.

Again though, why does this matter in this particular case?

Because it's not like he was universally loved before this. Plus people were asking for instances of things he's said in the past.

 

[Burgers]

Wait just a damn minute here. You've basically saying he had a free pass to cyberbully people and if it hurts them, that's their problem. That flies in the face of everything people are taught about cyberbullying and frankly I am surprised to see anyone try to play that card here in 2014.

The problem with this is that it wasn't usually the people that Phil fish called names who responded, but rather fans of those people or people on the internet who decided to relate that to themselves.

Moreover even if it was the people Phil was cyber-bullying who responded reactions like this (and what has been done in the past) are totally unacceptable and worse then anything Phil has done himself

 

[BigDes]

Really not sure Phil Fish was an asshole in the past means his employees should get their personal details leaked online but whatever I guess.

 

[CambriaRising]

I didn't think that annoyed gamer came out of it smelling like roses either. They both looked like idiots.

Again though, why does this matter in this particular case?

Not to mention that the "kill yourself" line is a futurama reference.

 

[MrBadger]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

Well he was quoting Futurama when he said that. I don't know if that makes it any better.

Anyway, the "Annoyed Gamer" was the one who started this. That attack on Blow and Fish was pretty uncalled for in the first place.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Because it's not like he was universally loved before this. Plus people were asking for instances of things he's said in the past.

No matter what is said though, this is not right. He might have been a dick but if people are going to this extent it doesn't matter anymore. You just don't do this kind of shit.

 

[Darklord]

http://i.imgur.com/VeLuwV5.jpg

You really think someone would post ALL their personal information including their banking and security details online for shits and giggles?

 

[Goon Boon]

Really not sure Phil Fish was an asshole in the past means his employees should get their personal details leaked online but whatever I guess.

Some people think that a person who cancels a game out of spite could be a big enough asshole to leak his own companies information to win an internet argument.

I'm not sure if that's true but either way his employee's don't deserve this shit.

 

[gogoud]

The sort of exchanges that have made people hate him. There's a certain level of grace that you usually need to have as a public figure and whether this was deserved or not he's been pretty widely hated foe years.

The hate for phill is manufactured. He has his own issues. The hate he displays got people to notice him. It got people talking about him and to him. You read his hateful tweets and you can't help but wonder whether or not he's really serious. Whether or not this hack was genuine, his tweets where he's panicking and lost read very genuine and it's disheartening. People who have dealt with him or experienced his cyber bullying will probably be happy and say he deserved it. I don't get into politics of things, but no one deserves having their precious taken hostage and shattered in front of their eyes. Genuine or not. Scum or not. Watching something you worked for years on torn up is the most painful thing you can experience. Even if sometimes you have to do it yourself.

 

[Lime]

Perhaps there's a way to be supportive of progressive ideas in this pocket of humanity called videogames without becoming weary misanthrope. I just don't think you have the answer to that.

It's hard not to become misanthropic when constantly faced with resistance and hostility from posters like you and many others who spend energy trying to dismiss or downplay the issue of bigotry in Western societies and their media cultures.

 

[Winter John]

I get it, ya'll are just intimidated by the opinions of a strong woman of color. I understand, looks like Jim Crow is still alive in certain parts of the internet.
#Ferguson

What project do you think Phil was working on with Olly Moss? Do you think we will ever see a Fez 2? Please like and subscribe and comment below.



What's with all the victim blaming? Just because he had a difference in opinion means that he was "asking for it"?





http://youtu.be/nwfyzG59qsc?t=23s

 

[TransientDreamer]

Let's not forget this has all stemmed from one insignificant indie dev who slept with a few people and had a blog post written about it. All of this, because someone had the audacity to sleep with a colleague.

I can't wrap my head around this type of stupidity.

 

[Myggen]

If it was anybody else in the gaming world, I'd say "certainly not."

But Phil Fish? I'll have to admit there's a teensy part of me that thinks he'd do exactly that.

Why? What has he said or done that makes you think that? He has said some dumb shit on Twitter, talked about Japanese gaming etc. But that's fucking it, isn't it? And because of that a "teensy part" of you are willing to believe that he'd put himself through this for attention or something? Get a grip and think about what you're saying here man, it's just your dislike of the man that's colouring everything else.

 

[NexusCell]

I get it, ya'll are just intimidated by the opinions of a strong woman of color. I understand, looks like Jim Crow is still alive in certain parts of the internet.
#Ferguson

What project do you think Phil was working on with Olly Moss? Do you think we will ever see a Fez 2? Please like and subscribe and comment below.



What's with all the victim blaming? Just because he had a difference in opinion means that he was "asking for it"?





http://youtu.be/nwfyzG59qsc?t=23s

Shitposting at its finest. Looking forward to you getting banned.

 

[Surt]

This idea of "well both sides have bad eggs!" is one of the most toxic things to discussion and it really needs to stop. It's useless hand-wringing that falsely equates the two and offers nothing constructive. Because let's be clear: there is an impossibly large gulf of difference between a campaign targeting people to expose their information and harass them, and people reacting to that fucking disgusting behavior for what it is, and equating the two, intentionally or not, is kind of ridiculous.


You'll have to run that one by me again.

Sure. You have a game like Dragons Crown. Who artist is well known for how he draws all his characters. and kotaku comes out with a piece basically prosecuting the guy for it. No one played ODIN'S SPHERE? It like blaming... wait for it MANARA for his Variant spider woman cover. oh wait... the pc white knights are complaining about it. And I would too... IF IT WASN'T A VARIANT COVER. lol

 

[Tommy DJ]

I just had this realization.

When 4chan says "This game is for retarded manchildren who should kill themselves"

"Oh that's just /v/ jargon, it's usually sarcasm"

When Phil Fish says (NOTE PARAPHRASED) "Ewwwww Gross youtube nerd"

"OMG Phil Fish sucks why does he hate the people who made him successful!?!?"

Now, why's that?

There's a reason why 4chan is sometimes referred to as the cesspit of the internet. You can post completely anonymously and you can post anything you want. When people say that you shouldn't take 4chan seriously, its because the anonymous nature of the forum encourages trolling, contrarian stances, people posting content that they shouldn't, etc etc. But let's look at Phil Fish: he is a public figure who won a few gaming developer awards, released a pretty successful game, and is generally a known game developer. Having an actual public figure engage with the public as if they were posting on Something Awful's FYAD is probably not the smartest thing to do.

Let me say that Phil Fish doesn't deserve any of this but he's pissed off a lot of people and its very clear how and why. If you want an example of how not to engage with people on Twitter, he's probably the best example.

 

[igor]

What is a SJW game dev?

 

[Dragon]

Grace? He is an indie game developer.. He doesn't need to do anything, he should be nice, but I guess that's not his persona or character. Still, he can do what he wants, it's just his Twitter account.

People who actively hate him have issues, people who think he deserved what happened here? Probably either not mature enough to understand or empathize enough...

Telling someone to kill themselves over an opinion is batshit and completely over the top. Phil Fish doesn't deserve what's happened d but he has been an asshole.

People defending that type of juvenile behavior kinda mystify me. And it's definitely relevant to the person who said it's not.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Sure. You have a game like Dragons Crown. Who artist is well known for how he draws all his characters. and kotaku comes out with a piece basically prosecuting the guy for it. No one played ODIN'S SPHERE? It like blaming... wait for it MANARA for his Variant spider woman cover. oh wait... the pc white knights are complaining about it. And I would too... IF IT WASN'T A VARIANT COVER. lol

the artist's responded with "lol ur gay"

 

[Infernal Monkey]

I just had this realization.

When 4chan says "This game is for retarded manchildren who should kill themselves"

"Oh that's just /v/ jargon, it's usually sarcasm"

When Phil Fish says (NOTE PARAPHRASED) "Ewwwww Gross youtube nerd"

"OMG Phil Fish sucks why does he hate the people who made him successful!?!?"

Now, why's that?

What.

This is just as weird as people referring to NeoGAF as a single entity.

 

[jaxpunk]

Doesn't kiddy porn or what amounts to kiddy porn get posted to 4chan. How is this site not banned from being spoken about?

 

[Riposte]

Forgive me if I'm confusing you with someone else with a Wesker avatar. If I recall correctly, you're the sort of person who spends a decent amount of time articulating their opinion on a given topic, often aggressively (if not angrily) against the tide of the conversation. You're willing to put in some effort. And now I find you painting people who apply that same tact on issues relating to actual human empathy in ugly, broad strokes? That's disheartening. When I worked in retail, I was never offended by the person who got angry when we were sold out of their favourite movie or threatened to call the manager because their game took an extra day to arrive from interstate. For all I knew, the world never asked more of them beforehand. They might be perfectly rational agents in their own life. They might not know any better. I disrespected them for it, but I was never offended. I am, however, offended when I see people who should know better saying thoughtless, careless, lazy things. Particularly when those things relate to general human empathy --- encouraging others to broaden their own empathetic range, for example.

We can do better.

Being more empathic, taking on a greater burden for a greater good, it sounds faultless in its kindness, but I think moving beyond beautiful language, we might come to discover that such good intentions can lead to rather ugly thoughts. There's a disconnect here because we are looking at two different ends. You won't see me protest someone's idea of opening their heart consists of fighting for their sense of justice whenever they see injustice, taking a stand. What I'm looking at is Phil Fish's twitter, the wanting to "burn down the industry". "Gamers this" and "gamers that" from the journos fixated on every little wrong thing that happens and letting it color their world. The jumping between cold cynical snarkiness and resentful frustration, as people swallow down a buffet of bad news everyday. It all comes down to resentment really, which I would personally describe as the most dangerous of all human emotion (poison for the soul). In this case, "empathy" creates an aggressive "other" to demonize, which seems contradictory in its purpose. So, that's why I'm reluctant to fight monsters, no matter how much greater that good is. I know there is a better way than to become an ideologue, but then I couldn't say how effective it is.

EDIT: What makes being an ideologue dangerous, especially when the stakes are so high (and if you are an ideologue, you always think the stakes can't be higher), is that unlike the hypocritical fair-weather activist who's idea of a just cause is what they see in pop culture, you hold that frustration deep and internalize it and let it shape you. The more time you spend regretting the state of the world, which could very well mean the more time you spend being empathetic, the more hatred you internalize.

 

[ab.aeterno]

Sure. You have a game like Dragons Crown. Who artist is well known for how he draws all his characters. and kotaku comes out with a piece basically prosecuting the guy for it. No one played ODIN'S SPHERE? It like blaming... wait for it MANARA for his Variant spider woman cover. oh wait... the pc white knights are complaining about it. And I would too... IF IT WASN'T A VARIANT COVER. lol

Actually, I was asking you to explain calling people "fairies." But dropping "PC white knights" tells me all I probably need to know.

 

[Tash]

Let's not forget this has all stemmed from one insignificant indie dev who slept with a few people and had a blog post written about it. All of this, because someone had the audacity to sleep with a colleague.

I can't wrap my head around this type of stupidity.

No, it has originated from a pissed off ex who tried to wash dirty laundry in a place it shouldn't have been washed in the first place..