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Port Authority approves $32B to improve bus terminal, LaGuardia & JFK airports in NYC

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GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Link.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on Thursday approved a preliminary 10-year, $32 billion plan to fund a new Port Authority Bus Terminal and renovate New York’s airports, among other projects.

The proposed capital-works plan now goes through a public comment period before the board votes in February. The governors of New York and New Jersey can veto it.

The plan was held up in December, when it first came before the board, amid battles over replacing the aging bus terminal in Manhattan. New York and New Jersey officials have been sparring over what percentage each side should pay for a terminal that is in New York but primarily serves New Jersey passengers. The terminal sees some 115,000 commuters daily and the number is expected to grow.

The structure in the draft plan approved Thursday has New York paying one third of $3.5 billion toward the project, with New Jersey the remainder. It is still short of the $10 billion the project is estimated to cost over a decade. Port Authority officials are expecting the federal government to step up with funding.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, scored some wins in the proposal, which funds the airport renovation plans he has promoted over the past year. The plan allocates $2.9 billion for redeveloping LaGuardia Airport which is already under way, and $2.5 billion for improvements in and around John F. Kennedy International Airport, a plan Mr. Cuomo announced Wednesday.

The proposed JFK renovations total an estimated $10 billion, with Mr. Cuomo hoping to raise private capital.



Plus Cuomo wants to build an Airtrain to LaGuardia.

JcXK1dK.jpg


The cost of the AirTrain is estimated at $450 million, which is considerably less than the AirTrain that was built for JFK to the tune of $1.9 billion. But it still seems like a lot of money to spend to go in the opposite direction of Manhattan. The Transport Politic did a great job of shaking their damn heads at Cuomo's proposal today, and according to their estimates, using Cuomo's AirTrain to get to Manhattan will actually take longer than current options provided by the MTA:
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
This coming immediately after Cuomo vetoed a bill that would have finally done something about overworked public defenders because he thought $500 million over 10 years costs too much.
 

GK86

Homeland Security Fail
10 years?

More like 20 if they are lucky

20 years is when they break ground.

As nice as it would be to have an AirTran from the city to the airports, I agree that it will never finish. Is there still construction on the Van Wyck?


I think it's double the proposal and add 7.

Pretty sure there is still construction on the BQE. The AirTrain would be a waste of money. What they should do is try to extend the N/W lines to LGA. Or have a line run from 74th Broadway to LGA.
 

The Argus

Member
As a Jackson Heights resident I'm okay with this. Sure it will cause a ton of traffic, but I'll be long gone before any of this starts up. Hopefully LGA gets its planned upgrade sooner than later, there's nothing more depressing than arriving/departing from La Garbage. Aren't we the greatest city in the world? Why the fuck does one of our airports feel like Pittsburgh circa 1982.
 
Maybe it'll be done by the time my grandchildren are adults.

JFK is the worst airport I've ever flown out of. Anything that helps improve it.

Really? Whats bad about JFK? Terminal 4 security is painful if you're flying on a popular day but otherwise it's been one of the best airports I've flown in / out of.

LGA and Newark on the other hand are considerably worse.
 
Really? Whats bad about JFK? Terminal 4 security is painful if you're flying on a popular day but otherwise it's been one of the best airports I've been in.

LGA and Newark on the other hand are considerably worse.

I've never had any issue flying out of Newark, then again I tend to fly out on the first flight of the day at 5:30 in the morning so the airport isn't quite bustling at that time.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Good. JFK, Newark and LaGuardia are literally national embarrassments.

I guess that won't help with the rude stupid security people though.

LAX is a shitstain too tbh.
 
Good. JFK, Newark and LaGuardia are literally national embarrassments.

I guess that won't help with the rude stupid security people though.

The TSA people are the one thing I cannot stand at all.

Every airport I swear has different rules for everything.

One airport wants everything in separate bins, another only wants a laptop in it's own bin and you can put whatever you want in another.

One airport doesn't say anything about removing everything from your pockets to go in the scanner. Another airport wants nothing in your pockets at all, not even a tissue, or a receipt from the magazine you bought before you went into security.
 

jb1234

Member
Really? Whats bad about JFK? Terminal 4 security is painful if you're flying on a popular day but otherwise it's been one of the best airports I've flown in / out of.

LGA and Newark on the other hand are considerably worse.

I've flown out of all three NYC airports. JFK was by far the worst experience, probably because of how sprawling it is. It was also in the afternoon, which likely didn't do me any favors.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Despite ruling the world our public agencies and labor is so fucking Bulkanized and corrupt that I have not faith that any of this is an investment with a descent return on investment. Even if you assign a per estimated rider number to Second Avenue Subway its a fucking rip off ($50,000 per annual rider). Look at this from the cynical point of view and you come to the conclusion that PANYNJ is spending $30,000,000,00 on building more god damn malls. Look at their last transit project, the WTC1 Station, no new transit was actually added and it was all spent on a fucking mall.

New & Expanded Port Authority Bus Terminal ($10,000,000,000.00)
-Seams like for that much money would could build a new bus terminal in Secaucus with a 7 train extension. Because it makes a lot of sense to cram even more low capacity transit buses into the Lincoln Tunnel and into midtown.

LaGuardia "expansion" and New Airtran:
-First of all the Airtran is going in the wrong direction, to flushing, the 7 and a difficult to transfer branch of the LIRR. Pretty much all buses heading to LGA will get you there faster than this weird Airtran branch, except if you live on the Port Washington Branch of the LIRR or in Flushing.
-Despite the "last mile" convenience of LGA to rich people, it is a pretty useless airport only handling 30 million a year, but causes significant ATC issues in the north east, including Philly. Cannot increase size of runways and it prevents all of North Eastern Queens from developing. Airport should be closed.
-Airport is certified leaky shit-hole.

Newark:
-Shit-hole needs investment, big time. Idiots at port authority only bought a 25 year monorail (airtrain) and it needs to be torn down. Rather then maintain the EWR train station and expand the PATH to it, the should probably expand the AIRTRAIN, (because they need to rebuild it anyway, not included in this budget) to Newark-Penn.

JFK:
-I like JFK. Don't really think it needs massive investment. Airtrain works fine, terminals are all acceptable, Sure terminal 4 is constantly 80 degrees but I see that more as a "Welcome to Europe, we do not have AC."
-But JFK has always had its terminals built by the airlines themselves, so most of that money will likely be private.

I've flown out of all three NYC airports. JFK was by far the worst experience, probably because of how sprawling it is. It was also in the afternoon, which likely didn't do me any favors.

Never had an issue with JFK's size, as long as I showed up to the right terminal.

Good. JFK, Newark and LaGuardia are literally national embarrassments.

I guess that won't help with the rude stupid security people though.

LAX is a shitstain too tbh.
I would much rather have them spend the monies on the Trans-Harbor freight tunnel the PANYNJ was originally created for and better regional transit for billions of riders who are local and not on malls for air travelers (which is where a lot of the expense will go to).
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Only people who live in new york think the subway runs from Manhattan directly to jfk.

Incredibly, amazingly, it doesn't. You have to confusingly change to a ridiculously expensive little shuttle train to make the last mile.


Yet new Yorkers (my sister included) defend this combination of graft, incompetence and Taminy garbage because reasons.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Only people who live in new york think the subway runs from Manhattan directly to jfk.

Incredibly, amazingly, it doesn't. You have to confusingly change to a ridiculously expensive little shuttle train to make the last mile.


Yet new Yorkers (my sister included) defend this combination of graft, incompetence and Taminy garbage because reasons.

Who said that? Its a 5 dollar shuttle runs frequently and a simple transfer at Jamaica. When I travel to Paris, Beijing, or London (excluding the City Airport) I always have at least two transfers across different systems to get where I am going. And apart from Chicago and SF you don't really have those options at all in the states and BART just sucks.

Our subway is filthy, its construction is a rip off, but $5 per ride is not NY size graft.
 

DSFan1970

Member
Only people who live in new york think the subway runs from Manhattan directly to jfk.

Incredibly, amazingly, it doesn't. You have to confusingly change to a ridiculously expensive little shuttle train to make the last mile.


Yet new Yorkers (my sister included) defend this combination of graft, incompetence and Taminy garbage because reasons.

Not true. Most NYers take a cab or have friend drop them off. Only tourists, the frugal, and transportation wonks take the AirTrain or take the A train.
 

DSFan1970

Member
Good. LaGuardia's a fucking dump.

A dump I'm gonna have to fly to tomorrow :0

It's not bad in the weekends. I take a Saturday afternoon flight regularly. It's painless. Friday night is the worst time. Sunday is bad for arrivals not departures.
 
LaGuardia "expansion" and New Airtran:
-First of all the Airtran is going in the wrong direction, to flushing, the 7 and a difficult to transfer branch of the LIRR. Pretty much all buses heading to LGA will get you there faster than this weird Airtran branch, except if you live on the Port Washington Branch of the LIRR or in Flushing.
-Despite the "last mile" convenience of LGA to rich people, it is a pretty useless airport only handling 30 million a year, but causes significant ATC issues in the north east, including Philly. Cannot increase size of runways and it prevents all of North Eastern Queens from developing. Airport should be closed.
-Airport is certified leaky shit-hole.
They are increasing the number of runways in the new renovations for the LGA though, by moving the terminals towards the highway.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Not true. Most NYers take a cab or have friend drop them off. Only tourists, the frugal, and transportation wonks take the AirTrain or take the A train.

This is also true, but as someone who lives along the E train, the only tourists who ever take it are European (frightened on the end benched), not Americans.
They are increasing the number of runways in the new renovations for the LGA though, by moving the terminals towards the highway.

Nope, no new runways, just better taxiways, same two shitty low capacity low distance runways. Only way to add a capable runway is to landfill the bay and take out Rikers Island.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Who said that? Its a 5 dollar shuttle runs frequently and a simple transfer at Jamaica. When I travel to Paris, Beijing, or London (excluding the City Airport) I always have at least two transfers across different systems to get where I am going. And apart from Chicago and SF you don't really have those options at all in the states and BART just sucks.

Our subway is filthy, its construction is a rip off, but $5 per ride is not NY size graft.


To clarify I'm talking about international travelers assuming the subway goes to the airport, and then are stunned when they have to get off the train and pay another fee and transfer to get to the airport less than a mile away. It's embarrassing.

And the only people I have ever heard claim this is normal, are new Yorkers.

The SUBWAY train should continue from Jamaica to modern terminal at JFK. No question about it.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Are they ever gonna move Penn station above ground like they have been talking about for years?

Fun Fact, Penn Station NYC is the same exact Penn Station NYC it has been for about 100 years. The same exact platforms, the same exact stairs to the platforms. The old post office waiting room scheme is underway as part of gateway tunnel, but who will really walk one more west side block to go to the same exact platforms?

Penn stations real problem, yes it is a shithole, but priority wise is maintaining cross hudson tunnels and the desperate need for additional tracks and platforms. GCT on the other hand had platforms to spare, but the idiots in the MTA spent billions on building a new deep station underneath rather using the existing extra capacity already built in. The public reason for this was they could not figure out how to get MTA Metro North management to work with MTA LIRR management sharing platforms. That is NYC sized graft.

To clarify I'm talking about international travelers assuming the subway goes to the airport, and then are stunned when they have to get off the train and pay another fee and transfer to get to the airport less than a mile away. It's embarrassing.

And the only people I have ever heard claim this is normal, are new Yorkers.

The SUBWAY train should continue from Jamaica to modern terminal at JFK. No question about it.

I do not disagree with you, the issues was actually one of federal funding (NY area agencies were not the cause of this stupidity for once). The Airtrain was built and is paid for using Air Traveler fees, a fee placed on every ticket flying out of JFK. Federally money collected from Air Travel fees can only be spent on direct improvements to the airport. Using the fees to pay off the debt of building the system would have been illegal if it integrated into a larger transit network.

Having said that the Airtrain was structurally built (grade & weight & guage) to support the LIRR from Penn Station, so after the bonds are paid off and with some reconstruction to the LIRR mainline it could be done. -But it shouldn't because you would still have to transfer to a local shuttle between terminals at JFK (Even with this redesign).
 

tbm24

Member
As nice as it would be to have an AirTran from the city to the airports, I agree that it will never finish. Is there still construction on the Van Wyck?



I think it's double the proposal and add 7.
Pretty sure construction will never end in the Van Wyck. Will say, was a hell of a thing to see the current air train go up as slow as it did to end with the opening day it had. I used to live in Astoria so I'd be perfectly content to have an air team that connects it to la guardia.
 
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