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Pragmata PC Performance Raises Concerns for 8 GB GPU Users, Digital Foundry Reports
- Thread starter seb85
- Start date
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
Demo worked great on my 3060ti? Are the other areas more demanding or are we talking about 4k ultra settings?
Bojji
Gold Member
Exactly, Richard saw issues in later (bigger) areas.
bender
What time is it?
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
You can even set your budget up to the price of a Pro and get a card that meets or defeats it in performance. Plenty of affordable options, even if you have to go back a gen or 2.
The Pro is pretty formidable for what it is and brings to the table for the price, but all you'd need is maybe an RTX 3070 Ti or something similar.
Bojji
Gold Member
The PCMR has an issue with turning settings down
You mean Richard?
ReasonBeing
Member
I played through Indiana jones with an 8 gig 4070 with a capped 72 fps at 1080p and never recall dropping frames. Just use one of the myriad of upscaling options and it's not close to an issue.Even for 1080p 8 GB is often not enough:
8 GB GPUs still have a place in the market but they are no longer enough for 1080p gaming in 2025
In a recent X post, AMD's Frank Azor argued that gamers who play at 1080p don't need more than 8 GB VRAM. However, that statement is not entirely correct, and while there is a market for 8 GB GPUs, they should be far cheaper than the entry-level Radeon RX 9060 XT variant.www.notebookcheck.net
I feel like you would have to go out of ones way to find a setting configuration where it struggles to maintain 30 FPS
Edit: IIRC, the only setting that wasn't at high was the texture pool, it advised to keep it at low.
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Roni
Member
As a PC gamer, I feel the same.The PCMR has an issue with turning settings down
dgrdsv
Member
We're talking about Capcom's RE engine which at this point is synonymous with bad VRAM management.
Somehow in the mind of DF people this is 8GB GPUs fault.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I know we can't trust this guy, but this is the only video providing high-quality, direct comparisons I could find.
Seriously, what kind of garbage is this "ray tracing"? The reflections look like old shitty raster and "path tracing" looks like the bog standard ray tracing. It's like they just shifted the labels and knocked everyone down a peg. I mean, look at those shadows. You can't seriously tell me this crap is RT shadows. The reflections look almost the same between RT and non-RT.
Seriously, what kind of garbage is this "ray tracing"? The reflections look like old shitty raster and "path tracing" looks like the bog standard ray tracing. It's like they just shifted the labels and knocked everyone down a peg. I mean, look at those shadows. You can't seriously tell me this crap is RT shadows. The reflections look almost the same between RT and non-RT.
dgrdsv
Member
RT reflections in RE are shitty.
PT in this case right now means Nvidia's RR is on so that's pretty far from "bog standard RT" as well.
They are not. RT there are doing reflections and GI, not shadows.
I'd usually agree but been gaming on PC lately and thought play gta5 again. Tried PC version looks great but thought ill play it on consoles saves having a room warming PC on sometimes. Tried the ps5 pro version and it just looked so soft compared to the PC version. Honestly glad ps5 pro now has good PSSR for the newer games as image quality should be great but for alot of older games they just look like crap when you get used to a lot cleaner image. Obviously this is a newer game so shpuld be fine.
Zathalus
Member
Hardly. Less than half of 5000 series sales are 5060/5050 cards. The most single popular card for Nvidia has been the 5070. 16GB cards (5060ti/5070ti/5080) make up the largest segment of all 5000 cards.
MrJangles
Member
Pfft. You could buy a pre-owned 4070 for a lot less than a Sony paperweight that runs rings around it.
Bojji
Gold Member
I know we can't trust this guy, but this is the only video providing high-quality, direct comparisons I could find.
Seriously, what kind of garbage is this "ray tracing"? The reflections look like old shitty raster and "path tracing" looks like the bog standard ray tracing. It's like they just shifted the labels and knocked everyone down a peg. I mean, look at those shadows. You can't seriously tell me this crap is RT shadows. The reflections look almost the same between RT and non-RT.
They don't even have glass RT reflections it seems in normal RT. This is in line with typical RE engine RT, I guess RE9 has glass reflections but it only works on Pro (this runs on standard consoles).
RT shadows are part of PT here.
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Stuart360
Member
I had a 3070 until a few months ago and i had very few problems with games, even many games from last year. I played mostly at 1080p though but part of the point of PC gaming is being able to change settings if and when needed.
Also i tried the demo on my 4070ti, and i swear it was only using around 7gb vram, and that was at max settings with RT.
Also i tried the demo on my 4070ti, and i swear it was only using around 7gb vram, and that was at max settings with RT.
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Stuart360
Member
Mainly because of high refresh screens though. Many PC users will always take framerate over resolution.
Bojji
Gold Member
Even 7GB is above 6.7GB available on 8GB GPUs. That's why game can stutter if it's swapping memory like crazy (through PCIE bus).
Laptop1991
Gold Member
8Gb cards are still the most common GPU's on Steam, so if the game is not going to perform well on them, they wont be getting a lot of sales on PC then.
Bojji
Gold Member
You can play the game fine with the right settings.
Laptop1991
Gold Member
So it isnt really an issue then, just more clickbait
Bojji
Gold Member
Many of those 8GB cards wouldn't be able to use RT+hairstrands anyway (not powerful enough). I guess people rocking 8GB cards just should have realistic expectations about modern games.
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kevboard
Member
it's often people using the wrong settings.
RE Engine games often have weird texture settings and a slightly misleading VRAM meter. people are scared to use the lower settings even to they sometimes look basically the same, especially when playing lower resolutions.
Laptop1991
Gold Member
Thats more or less how its always been with RT and 8GB cards anyway and i remember Nvidias Hairworks causing performance issues 10 years ago with the Witcher 3 etc, so same old on repeat.
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Bojji
Gold Member
There were games that were straight up broken on 8GB cards, like Forspoken loading only potato textures, Hogwarts Legacy and TLOU1 doing the same thing - most of them were patched in the end (after weeks-months).
Pragmata is not even close to that, you just set righ memory size pool (like
kevboard
said), turn off RT and shadow cache and it should run fine.
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kevboard
Member
There were games that were straight up broken on 8GB cards, like Forspoken loading only potato textures, Hogwarts Legacy and TLOU1 doing the same thing - most of them were patched in the end (after weeks-months).
Pragmata is not even close to that, you just set righ memory size pool (like
I bet the game will run fine with RT if you play with an internal res around 900p and set the texture settings properly.
the question is if the lower texture settings are done well like in Doom, or some poorly like in Monster Hunter.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Sure Pathtracing looks awesome, and is the future, but that RT mode is truely awful compared to the RT seen in Cyberpunk 2077
Bojji
Gold Member
Sure, I agree. Capcom should upgrade their standard RT long time ago. It still has quality that can run ok on RDNA2.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I have my PC connected to a 4k television. Same reason why PlayStation 5 made the jump to 4k. But on a monitor resolution matters less I'm sure.
kevboard
Member
the biggest issue with the RT mode is that transparent surfaces don't get reflections, and that they somehow still have the worst denoiser for their reflections I've ever seen... worse than UE5, and that's saying something.
dgrdsv
Member
Which is why it's there.
They have this split for a reason, and it's basically "RT mode for consoles, PT mode for PCs" now.
I guess we should thank them that they've added PT now.
Edit: I mean this RT is basically "free" even on RDNA3:
Pragmata im Test: Raytracing & Pathtracing: Bildqualität und Performance
Pragmata im Test: Raytracing & Pathtracing: Bildqualität und Performance / Raytracing in der Analyse
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MCH2024
Member
less than half of 5000 sales is still like 5-8x RDNA4. it's a massive critical mass. and if less than half is the shipment rate that's mostly pre memory price correction, 8GB PC Gamer share isn't being eroded at a fast rate at all.
and do you truly not understand? memory has undergone a price correction.
6060 Ti will have an 8/9GB and a 12/16GB SKU. the party is over.
8GB GPUs are eternal.
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Zathalus
Member
Why bring up RDNA4? I'm not talking about AMD. Strictly referring to Nvidia, new 8GB cards are not the most popular.
And if a 6060 or 6060Ti launches with 8GB of VRAM it will be a dog shit card. Especially going up against a 30GB PS6. Imagine if the 3060 had come out with 4GB of memory.
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MCH2024
Member
Basically a game with fake "performant" RT and real PT.Which is why it's there.
They have this split for a reason, and it's basically "RT mode for consoles, PT mode for PCs" now.
I guess we should thank them that they've added PT now.
Edit: I mean this RT is basically "free" even on RDNA3:
Pragmata im Test: Raytracing & Pathtracing: Bildqualität und Performance
Pragmata im Test: Raytracing & Pathtracing: Bildqualität und Performance / Raytracing in der Analysewww.computerbase.de
if a Gen 10 Graphics Arch like Ada can barely handle PT with a perf drop bigger than 70%, Gen 9.5 architecture like RDNA4 can't even think about it. the frame rate won't even hit double digits.
MCH2024
Member
I am bringing up how oxymoronic it is to say that when the best you can say about 8GB cards is that they are less than half. That's still a massive amount of volume and >8GB being 10% higher in shipments doesn't erode 8GB install base meaningfully or fast enough to phase it out. not to mention a lot of those 12/16GB sales were pre-memory price correction.
you're also looking at the march survey which had a wide fluctuation.
the fact is we still have tens of millions of dGPUs shipping with 8GB now. and this will continue into RTX 60 series.
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Zathalus
Member
Your claim was "8GB VRAM is all gamers can afford right now."
That's obviously untrue. I'm not claiming that no 8GB cards are selling, just that more than 8GB is more popular than not.
If Nvidia releases a 8GB 6060 it's probably a sign that they don't care for low margin 60 class cards that much anymore.
MCH2024
Member
It is true. The mean GPU sold is a 5070, but that is dragged by 5090 and such.
We are still seeing a massive chunk of the market on 8GB. If 40% of the market is 8/9GB in perpetuity, yes that's all that can be afforded.
No it's a sign that that's all gamers can afford at a 299-349$ MSRP.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
The game uses almost all the video memory on my 6700 XT at 1440p with ray tracing on, frame generation on, and FSR 3 Quality, with nearly maxed settings. Maybe it can push further FPS, despite my CPU limiting me.
VRAM usage isn't good reference as many of these engines automatically adjust texture streaming to the available amount of vram (or let you do it yourself)
You need ~9GB to match PS5 quality settings. This is from DS2, it should be true to more games.
Bojji
Gold Member
People set v. high settings on 8GB GPUs and then complain about textures not loading or stuttering...
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Does this happen with death stranding 2 or pragmata?
Adjusting texture pool to the available vram is standard practice. A lot of the times not even to adapt to lower vram cards but rather make good use of larger vram available on some better models
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Bojji
Gold Member
Some games don't do that at all, some games do that partially and some are good at it.
Snowdrop games don't have any texture settings and will just adjust to your memory, Hogwarts Legacy or Forspoken were just not loading quality textures on 8GB... Other games are stuttering or just crashing to desktop when you go out of vram (RE4). RE Engine games in general just follow settings menu (memory pool), they will go out of vram when it's insufficient for them.
Games adjusting stuff automatically is not that common, certainly not a standard especially when you have texture quality settings in game. When I had regular 4070ti Cyberpunk 2077 was stuttering in dogtown with PT + FG + DLSS P and I wasn't sure why... When I got 4070TI Super I found the answer - game required 14GB of VRAM for these settings.
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Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Hogwarts legacy and RE engine are case scenarios where the texture setting itself alters (or can alter) texture streaming rather than texture quality. Aka only distant textures may appear blurrier, RE engine even has explicit settings for texture pool size vs texture quality. Other examples of this approach include expedition 33 and indiana jones tgc.
Theres obviously still limits, especially if you're trying to run a game with ultra 4k with path tracing. But as far as average use comparable to a ps5 goes it isnt much of an issue.
Bojji
Gold Member
Hogwarts look like this
(timestamped) Game is just not loading quality textures, even in your face. And this is not the only game doing that.
Forcing settings requiring more vram than you have and hoping that game will manage that is not a good idea.
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