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Project Cars 2 |OT| Buggy Racing At The Four Seasons
- Thread starter GHG
- Start date
Big Takeover
Member
Hotlap Challenge #2
Lamborghini Diablo GTR @ Long Beach
Run it however you'd like. All platforms/skill levels/aids/controllers are welcome. If you'd like to do a video or whatever, great.
Have fun, and good luck!
----------------------
I found this combo to be a good mix of fun, charisma, and difficulty. A short lap in a surprisingly reasonably car. Hopefully it'll appeal to just about everyone, and encourage lots of laps. The car has a lot of understeer in it, so being patient is key. I'll be curious to see how much we can fix that, and what it will do to the lap times.
I'm the only person to have set a time with this combo, so let's fill it up with Gaffers.
----------------------
Leaderboard web page
"Time Trial" mode.
1. 1:18.699 - Big Takeover (video *I edited the wrong lap, but it's close enough) // PC, wheel, stick shift, authentic aids, default setup
2. 1:18.880 - Betta Lines // PC, no aids
3. 1:20.035 - markao (video) // PC, manual 6 gear shift/clutch, no aids
4. 1:21.040 - seattle6418
5. 1:21.303 - TylerDurden4321 (video) // PC, wheel, no aids, custom setup
6. 1:21.940 - Arucardo // PC, wheel, no aids
7. 1:21.385 - Makikou (I see you lurking!
)8. 1:23.079 - FrankCanada97 (pic)// PC, gamepad, cockpit view, authentic aids on manual with auto-clutch and some setup adjustments.
9. 1:23.38 - danowat // PS4 using pad with sc and TC
10. 1:23.400 - cooldawn // DualShock 4; ABS only, default set-up
11. 1:25.190 - vacantseas // PC, controller, authentic aids
12. 1:31.056 - microtubule // PC, no aids, controller
vacantseas
Member
My time was PC, controller, authentic aids.
I'll try some again later or this weekend if it's still going on.
I'll try some again later or this weekend if it's still going on.
Here is a replay video of that lap (1:20.035) BT, manual 6 gear shift/clutch, no aids)
(just click image)
Shifting/clutching is OK as good as it gets with me , (although from the replay I forgot it after second timing sector, poor gearbox), but I do not have the same trust in my right foot braking as I do with my left. So some more laps required to get comfortable and a to get a little closer to the walls. First sector muscle memory starts to come, specially once I noticed you do not have to hold the champcar/Indy line in the first corner (pit exit line, not crossing) :medumb:, but the other two sectors need some work, so more laps incoming.
(just click image)
Shifting/clutching is OK as good as it gets with me , (although from the replay I forgot it after second timing sector, poor gearbox
), but I do not have the same trust in my right foot braking as I do with my left. So some more laps required to get comfortable and a to get a little closer to the walls. First sector muscle memory starts to come, specially once I noticed you do not have to hold the champcar/Indy line in the first corner (pit exit line, not crossing) :medumb:, but the other two sectors need some work, so more laps incoming.Looks like you missed Donowat's time. See below.
Hotlap Challenge #2
Lamborghini Diablo GTR @ Long Beach
Run it however you'd like. All platforms/skill levels/aids/controllers are welcome. If you'd like to do a video or whatever, great.
Have fun, and good luck!
----------------------
I found this combo to be a good mix of fun, charisma, and difficulty. A short lap in a surprisingly reasonably car. Hopefully it'll appeal to just about everyone, and encourage lots of laps. The car has a lot of understeer in it, so being patient is key. I'll be curious to see how much we can fix that, and what it will do to the lap times.
I'm the only person to have set a time with this combo, so let's fill it up with Gaffers.
----------------------
Leaderboard web page
"Time Trial" mode.
1. 1:18.699 - Big Takeover (video *I edited the wrong lap, but it's close enough) // PC, wheel, stick shift, authentic aids, default setup
2. 1:20.035 - markao // PC, No aids, pedals flat shift up, blip down. Default set-up
3. 1:21.040 - seattle6418
4. 1:21.940 - Arucardo // PC, wheel, no aids
5. 1:25.190 - vacantseas // PC, controller, authentic aids
I managed
1:23.400 / DualShock 4 / ABS only / default set-up
Nice car. Horrid track. Will try harder though.
Ravensmash
Member
Had some real fun with it in the few hours I've messed about.
Now to try and actually beat that Formula Rookie race at Knockhill.
Really fun track, just keep messing up that first corner!
Now to try and actually beat that Formula Rookie race at Knockhill.
Really fun track, just keep messing up that first corner!
Big Takeover
Member
Thanks for pointing out that I missed somebody! It's really easy to screw it up when I'm editing the post on my phone. Just keep letting me know when I've messed up, and I'll fix it asap.
@Mark I just continue to left foot brake, and blip the throttle with my right. No clutch on downshift. That's the same as I do in iRacing, Assetto Corsa, etc. The rFactor-based games are the only ones that will (rightly) complain when I downshift in baby-mode rather than heal&toe. I can right foot brake, but decidedly not as well as left.
@Mark I just continue to left foot brake, and blip the throttle with my right. No clutch on downshift. That's the same as I do in iRacing, Assetto Corsa, etc. The rFactor-based games are the only ones that will (rightly) complain when I downshift in baby-mode rather than heal&toe. I can right foot brake, but decidedly not as well as left.
Tried the community challenge and first lap was a trainwreck, totally underestimated the breaking. In the end managed 1:31:xxx, guess there's lot of room for improvement.
One thing I noticed from the videos is that there are barely any screeching tyres. Guess I don't want to hit the brakes 100%. Will try again tomorrow.
One thing I noticed from the videos is that there are barely any screeching tyres. Guess I don't want to hit the brakes 100%. Will try again tomorrow.
Give Jack Spade's files a go. They are very easy to use and, except for some cars here and there, they work pretty well.
So I've started a Career in Formula Rookie, USA Championship. Full everything, 105 dificulty, 50 aggressivity, no Restarts, no outside Career Practice. I like the Rookie a lot in PC1. I tend to dislike Formula cars, but this one was great fun to me. PC2 version feels nothing like PC1's, but it's also super fun (even more).
First stop, Long Beach. On Practice I went to the engie and corrected a couple things, mainly the back behaviour when off throttle. I started 8 seconds away from the best time, but I slowly grinded my way up. In the end I finished 5th. On Qualy, I was already used to the car, but not entirely happy with the setup. In the end I ended up 2nd, half a second away from first.
Two days later (today) I've done the Race, 8 laps. I've tweaked the Differential a bit before the Race. It's taken my some laps to get used and get the pacing right, so the first guy has gotten away 2,5 seconds. Little by little I've closed the gap to a point where I've tried a crazy overtake, with no luck. Maybe I should have waited a bit and I might have won the Race. In the end, I've crossed 2nd, 03s from first.
So far, so good. I can't say much about the AI. After the first corner all of them were behind me and the guy in front has been quite constant on his timings. I've made the fastest lap of the Race, though.
The experience has been good and I will continue playing. Let's see how the AI behaves in the rest of the races.
I'd suggest setting the Clutch Differential on and at 30/60º
ReDelicious
Member
Hotlap Challenge #2
Lamborghini Diablo GTR @ Long Beach
Run it however you'd like. All platforms/skill levels/aids/controllers are welcome. If you'd like to do a video or whatever, great.
Have fun, and good luck!
----------------------
I found this combo to be a good mix of fun, charisma, and difficulty. A short lap in a surprisingly reasonably car. Hopefully it'll appeal to just about everyone, and encourage lots of laps. The car has a lot of understeer in it, so being patient is key. I'll be curious to see how much we can fix that, and what it will do to the lap times.
I'm the only person to have set a time with this combo, so let's fill it up with Gaffers.
----------------------
Leaderboard web page
"Time Trial" mode.
1. 1:18.699 - Big Takeover (video *I edited the wrong lap, but it's close enough) // PC, wheel, stick shift, authentic aids, default setup
1:23.139 - PC, Wheel, Authentic aids, default setup
I think maybe I'm changing my setup incorrectly or something? The game shows I used a non default setup but all I did was change to default stable. It asked me if I wanted to save after I changed so I did because if I don't it changes back to loose.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I tried the Formula C on slicks against the AI at Sakitto/Suzuka-light. It's pretty bad. It's not that they don't see you, are too aggressive or not aggressive enough, it's that they are INCREDIBLE slow around most corners and then make up for all of it in the last "corner".
The AI uses the default setup just like me, after the spoon curve I can overtake 1 AI driver on the straight, then take the next corner full throttle, which is too much for the engine on those tires at that downforce and I have to shift down... even if I shift down perfectly, they still carry more speed through there, so I usually get overtaken on finishing straight again and up the first corner they can carry much more speed than I do, only to then be super slow and be overtaken by me again... and sometimes I can overtake overtake 2 and even 3 AI drivers in the esses.
On the Formula Rookie:
I tried that after the Formula C, again at Sakitto. Trail braking in that thing is basically impossible, it rotates as soon as you brake and steer at the same time. The spoon corner - second part, down and slightly off-camber - it's ridiculous.
Let's try if I can do something with the setup. After 3 tries and nothing, I go AAAALLL in, everything that can make that thing understeer. Front height 130mm, rear 85mm, front 65N/mm, rear 20N/mm spring rate, zero rear ARB, 40N/mm fron ARB, overdampened front, soft rear. 0.4 front toe-out, 0.2 rear toe-in but -4°camber (front only -1°camber). And... In pussy-foot, gently stroke the brake pedal while smoothly turning ...and the rear wants to come around even at uphill spoon curve corner entry and I have to catch it.
There is something just waay off here. [And I don't have any problems with the open wheel trainer cars in other games like RaceRoom and AMS]
The AI uses the default setup just like me, after the spoon curve I can overtake 1 AI driver on the straight, then take the next corner full throttle, which is too much for the engine on those tires at that downforce and I have to shift down... even if I shift down perfectly, they still carry more speed through there, so I usually get overtaken on finishing straight again and up the first corner they can carry much more speed than I do, only to then be super slow and be overtaken by me again... and sometimes I can overtake overtake 2 and even 3 AI drivers in the esses.
On the Formula Rookie:
I tried that after the Formula C, again at Sakitto. Trail braking in that thing is basically impossible, it rotates as soon as you brake and steer at the same time. The spoon corner - second part, down and slightly off-camber - it's ridiculous.
Let's try if I can do something with the setup. After 3 tries and nothing, I go AAAALLL in, everything that can make that thing understeer. Front height 130mm, rear 85mm, front 65N/mm, rear 20N/mm spring rate, zero rear ARB, 40N/mm fron ARB, overdampened front, soft rear. 0.4 front toe-out, 0.2 rear toe-in but -4°camber (front only -1°camber). And... In pussy-foot, gently stroke the brake pedal while smoothly turning ...and the rear wants to come around even at uphill spoon curve corner entry and I have to catch it.
There is something just waay off here. [And I don't have any problems with the open wheel trainer cars in other games like RaceRoom and AMS]
I take it those leaderboards are just for PC?
I've read over 80 (? might be 90) dificulty, the AI uses custom setup.
Have you tried differential changes? The default setup has it open, AFAIK.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
I wish there was more audio of Ben Collins giving racing insight instead of repeating over and over again about how he grew up watching Senna in the loading screens.
Big Takeover
Member
Oh right! Of course! Durrr.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I was at only 6... 65? I mean I was gaining positions overall, but at the finishing straight losong one because the ai is just faster than possible on the player tire model. And over 80 that wouldn't change. It was the same I've seen in Empty Box video, he was racing Group C at Sugo vs AI=100 and he was equal or faster over the whole lap, just in the last corner the AI was smoking him, going faster than possible.
we are talking about braking... also the engine braking /mapping is very high by default = the thing really flows on coast
Yeah, these things are bound to happen. There're so many possibilities and scenarios. A perfectly adjusted AI for all car/tracks/conditions combos is unrealistic. Some corners they are too fast, some others they are too slow, sometimes they are faster than you can ever be, others they brake too early, but at higher difficulties, I find them fun to race against (I've not played all that much against the AI, anyway) and good enough to not break the spell too much. Their braking and turning is good enough to the point where I can drive like I'm racing against a good human drivers that don't know the track all that well. In my limited experience, I found the AI entertaining. Let's hope playing the Career more doesn't make me change my mind.
I thought the off trottle behaviour affects trail braking? I could be wrong, though.
Betta Lines
Member
I would say better. On a decent VR-ready system, you can get 90Hz in most scenarios on both games, with the right settings. Both are very demanding, but considering PC2's massive visual advantage over DR, combined with the fact that DR generally only features a single car in view, PC2 is far more impressive, performance-wise. To hold 90Hz in DR, there are some rally stages where I need to run almost minimal settings on a GTX 1080. I also need to run at near minimal settings on PC2 in order to hold 90Hz in the most demanding scenarios, but these moments are rare, so I run it at much higher quality. Also, PC2 still looks decent on lowest settings, which is definitely not the case for Dirt.
The setup file management system makes very little sense. I assumed it was buggy, but considering it still functions the same after the recent patch, I'm beginning to think the current system is intentional, which is baffling.
Had a go in the Lambo. This car is a hot mess, BT! Need more practice, but I think you might have this one in the bag.
I think the default setup for wheel is loose, so changing to staple makes it custom.
TylerDurden4321
Member
No, I absolutely had some good races against the AI, but all in post 2000 GT style cars so far (don't think I've tried road cars against Ai).
Phew, it would take a short essay to answer that. But with engine brake mapping very high (high in pCARS2=ecu supports stability more) and an open diff, it's basically just the wheel brakes for this case.
Big Takeover
Member
Hey! Be nice to the old girl!
As would have it, now I can't even get a whiff of my own time! I did an :18.8 and this :18.6 on "hurry up and get the post/video up laps". Now I can't break :19. I even had to load my ghost be make sure I hadn't cheated!
I can beat sector 1 without much problem, but I get killed in T6, and it just goes downhill from there.Perhaps I'll turn this challenge over quickly, and get something a bit more "normal" up. FrankCanada97, you've got a spot on the leaderboard whenever you get to it. I'll update any leaderboard, ay any time if somebody posts a time.
Another video with comments on the 2.00 patch (on PS4). Much improved, though still needs work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z10yWw-JACc&t=695s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z10yWw-JACc&t=695s
Betta Lines
Member
That may be the case, but it does a bunch of weird stuff with loading and saving. As soon as you create a custom setup, it'll default to that, even though they get filed under a specific track and you're visiting a different one. And even if you load one of the defaults, it'll still try to load a custom one each time you revisit the menu. So I can load the default from the pits, and as soon as I click 'tuning setup', it'll have loaded the custom one again. Then there are times when it asks you to overwrite or save new even if nothing has changed... it's just infuriating. Everything about the saving and loading of setups doesn't make any sense - unlike the setup pages themselves, which are pretty logically presented.
I just tried it, seems fine on default... a bit snappy once it goes, but nothing too alarming.
I think you approached the setup changes in a strange way too. If you're getting too much rotation from trail braking, the first (and probably only) thing worth changing is brake balance. I put it to 58 rather than whatever the default was - I think 54 - and that already felt like it was killing the rotation too much.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
PC, gamepad, cockpit view, authentic aids on manual with auto-clutch and some setup adjustments.
This Lambo understeers like crazy and I have to brake way earlier than I'm used to.
Thanks, I picked it up and am trying to get everything working properly. I noticed in VR that the game renders to the headset as well as my monitor. How do you turn it off? Since that is for sure affecting the performance.
Don't be so sure. Your GPU is only rendering once, the output is just being displayed twice (HMD and monitor). Performance hit is negligible-to-zero, I believe. If it was in any way significant there'd be an option to disable output to your monitor.
So the weaving under power is tyre slip torque affect? , it's a bit of an issue using a pad, does it affect wheel users much?
Take the LaFerrari for instance, veers to the right, massively, under power, feels nothing like the AC version of the car when you drive them back to back.
Its even worse in the wet.
Take the LaFerrari for instance, veers to the right, massively, under power, feels nothing like the AC version of the car when you drive them back to back.
Its even worse in the wet.
This is one of the fears I had for the game before release, coming from PC1. I must say I have had not this problems so far (haven't edited that many setups, anyway). I'll try to test it through.
In any case it is of utter importance they finally nail the setup info management. BTW, this happens after the patch? The match notes mentioned improvements.
Thats sadly my expirience too. Some lines that the AI takes are just beyond possible and it does not mattter if you are driving GT4 or LMP1.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I'll go back to default and turn brake balance up to 58. Pretty sure that I'll get the same result. Brake balance has very little effect for me in pCARS2 when it comes to rotation, compared to rF2, AMS, R3E. (also, I think, I had it at 56 or even 57 front, when I tried it before)
Can I make a video and you're telling me what I'm doing wrong? I'll put the telemtry hud on.
Edit:
That's an FFB histogram, shows you, if it's too light or too strong in a really convenient way. Good idea from SMS.
From what I've seen, GTS is basically a video that triggers once you cross the pit entry line and ends with your car outside pits. So, yeah, not comparable. I have TV pit cameras turned off, anyway.
Not a fan of the track or the car to be honest
Current lap is with a sequential, but I'll try and see how I can manage with a gated shifter. The game said it has a 5 speed sequential but after looking up the actual car online it seems to be a 5 speed gated manual. For me sim racing is about getting as close to the real thing as possible so having the right gear shifting method is important, not gonna start switching the side the shifter is on when driving right hand drive cars tho..
Current lap is with a sequential, but I'll try and see how I can manage with a gated shifter. The game said it has a 5 speed sequential but after looking up the actual car online it seems to be a 5 speed gated manual. For me sim racing is about getting as close to the real thing as possible so having the right gear shifting method is important, not gonna start switching the side the shifter is on when driving right hand drive cars tho..
In steam add -vrnomirror to the launch options. It will completely bork your keyboard and mouse in-game though so I don't use it.
I do recommend checking this thread out though. It helped get my performance where I wanted it.
Betta Lines
Member
I believe developers have to add the monitor output themselves (it's not automatic), so the performance impact varies depending on how it has been implemented in a particular game. The fact that the resolution of this window can be changed (in PC2) independently of the Rift output means that it isn't simply the same signal, so it has to stress the system in some way. I noticed a small performance improvement when running it in a window rather than fullscreen, as well as running it at a lower resolution (I have it windowed at 720p - didn't seem to make any difference below that).
Yes this is after the patch. Strange setup loading still behaves the same on my system.
Sure!
TylerDurden4321
Member
I gave it another try and found out that I don't even need to brake, the engine brake is enough to make the car rotate enough to make a catch necessary(despite it being set to 6, fairly high compared to most other cars... average seems to be ~3 in pCARS2). And "catching" only involves applying throttling without much countersteering needed - because the car has so much on-throttle understeer. If I set the engine braking to the max=10 (I would not have thought you could even set it that high), then it behaves much better, if I press the clutchbefore a turn, it's even better, the oversteer rotation is mostly gone. "Mostly"... it's still there because, frankly, this car is bullshit. An open wheel trainer car like this is supposed to teach you how to keep momentum, how to apply the brake to rotate the car, how to use the throttle. With this much weight transfer and on-throttle understeer, this car and setup teaches everything wrong.
And why is there so much weight transfer, that you get that much lift-off oversteer and on-throttle understeer?? It must be because of of a really high CoG, which is exactly what an open wheel trainer car is built to not have.
For comparison I looked at Automobilista's Formula Trainer car. It's really interesting. It has the same somewhat low negative camber as the pCARS2 version. The spring-rates and ARB settings are almost the same (rear is a bit stiffer in AMS), same longitudinal weight setting. The brake balance is set to 58:42 by default, exactly as you recommended. A difference is the tire pressure, which is about 0.3bar lower in AMS (100kPa front and rear). Interesting because pCARS2's slick tires on the Rookie are impossible to get into the ideal temperature window if the track is not glowing hot (I had 22°C at Sakitto, couldn't keep even the rear over 60°C).
But now the real difference: Automoblista's car has a ride height of only 40mm front and rear compared to 85mm front, 95mm rear in pCARS2) ==> much less weight shift in AMS. Also the engine brake (which you can't set up in AMS) flows even more on coast than pCARS2's highest setting.
If you would set up AMS's F-Trainer car exactly as pCARS2's - including tire pressure, engine brake and ride height, it wouldn't drive much different from the pCARS2 version (except for pCARS2 having just more grip in general).
I'll try to find out the CoG and normal ride height of a british Formula Ford 1600cc car. That car is not in iRacing, is it??
Edit:
Last page in this PDF:
in PC2, the lowest value you can set the rear to is 85. The highest you can set the front to is 130. I think AMS wins this.
Interesting - thanks. I'll try reducing my mirror down to 720p as well and see if I notice anything.
Yes, I think that's exactly what it is. But it works, and looks good. I know that implementing visual pit stops has been a colossal ball-ache for SMS over the past couple of years, and the results aren't currently that great. I wonder if this kind of approach might have been better, and freed up resources that would have been better spent elsewhere?
I would never change manual pitstops for a video, no matter how cool it looks.
Big Takeover
Member
Alright, I think I'll close up shop on the Diablo challenge tonight.
There are just too many people that haven't enjoyed it. I'm awfully sorry about that, folks. Obviously I wouldn't have picked that combo had I known people wouldn't think it was fun.
I should have a new one up in five or six hours. I promise it'll be more inviting.
There are just too many people that haven't enjoyed it. I'm awfully sorry about that, folks. Obviously I wouldn't have picked that combo had I known people wouldn't think it was fun.
I should have a new one up in five or six hours. I promise it'll be more inviting.
GHG
Member
Noooo I was going to have a go at it tomorrow.
Its fine, I hate Long beach anyway
The car became immediately more driveable for me after switching to H-pattern and heel-toeing. Was having serious trouble with braking when using a sequential but pumping the brake while doing heel-toe I had much more consistency. Improved my time a bit too, but going under 20 is probably not possible for me anytime soon.
I think I'm ok with this, not disliking the car as much as before after switching shifter plates, but the track is somewhat out of my comfort zone. Really impressed with your lap though.
Also, if you're having a hard time picking a combo you could do a straw poll, one for the car, one for the track? (have like 3-5 choices in each maybe?)
I think I'm ok with this, not disliking the car as much as before after switching shifter plates, but the track is somewhat out of my comfort zone. Really impressed with your lap though.
Also, if you're having a hard time picking a combo you could do a straw poll, one for the car, one for the track? (have like 3-5 choices in each maybe?)
Betta Lines
Member
I agree about the on-throttle behaviour being bullshit, but not really about anything else... The lift-off oversteer and trail-braking rotation seem fine, and the AMS Formula Vee has similar traits. The difference is that in AMS, after you induce some rotation, you can continue to balance the rear with the throttle, creating more or less oversteer at will. In PC2, applying any amount of throttle at that point just neutralises the rotation (even with an extreme loose setup), unless you're deliberately trying to spin out with massive inertia swings. But I don't agree that it teaches things wrong generally - it's still a momentum car, it highlights lift-off oversteer and requires good braking discipline. You say it shouldn't have so much weight transfer - I don't see why not - surely learning about weight transfer is the number one thing for a trainer car?
I wouldn't get too bogged down in the AMS comparison - they're not the same car or tyre - but yes, it's pretty clear that the Vee is way more enjoyable to drive!
TylerDurden4321
Member
Compared:
Real Formula Ford 1600:
Project CARS 2:
Automobilista:
RaceRoom Racing Experience:
And about the Vee: That's more of a Skippie. It also hard harder tires with a deeper tread allowing more "road car" slip angles, it's good to drive with more yaw and is very progressive beyond the peak slip angle.
Real Formula Ford 1600:
Note: Tires have to have 1mm tread profile - no slicks allowed ==> AMS has grooved tires, R3E has slicks, PC2 has slicks and also "sport" tires (grooved).
Project CARS 2:
Automobilista:
Note: Lowest ride height in AMS is 40mm, highest is 50mm
RaceRoom Racing Experience:
The RaceRoom car is a mix of some cars. But I think the PC2 Formula Rookie and AMS Formula Trainer are very much modeled after the same car and the PC2 version has just a too high CoG for it to make sense.I wouldn't get too bogged down in the AMS comparison - they're not the same car or tyre - but yes, it's pretty clear that the Vee is way more enjoyable to drive!
And about the Vee: That's more of a Skippie. It also hard harder tires with a deeper tread allowing more "road car" slip angles, it's good to drive with more yaw and is very progressive beyond the peak slip angle.
Betta Lines
Member
Oh wait, I thought you were comparing the Vee. What's this AMS car? Is it DLC?