I just don't know how FM and GT do this, but nobody else can, it's like a mysterious art.
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Project CARS | OT | Made by 80.000 slightly mad developers
- Thread starter Staab
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I just don't know how FM and GT do this, but nobody else can, it's like a mysterious art.
correct!
forza has these dynamic aids that always keep babysitting the pad user on the edge of traction. I just re-wrote that in another topic.
anybody can check that for himself, by pulling down the telemetry and watching how the wheel turn radius blip, it goes smaller and smaller as speed and loss of traction increase.
that is why forza is so enjoyable with a pad, as it keeps warning the player when he is about to screw up -while letting him enjoy the physics up to that point.
but this choice is also the reason that many people judge forza as a sim with the pad. and they make wrong judgement because of it.
try that same telemetry test with the wheel and sim settings, and you get a 1:1 ratio, and loss of traction happens quite differently, as many other things.
That's the point I've tried to make earlier, you can make PCars handle more similar to that, you could say it's not giving you true control, but it's also making it playable. By default you go to full lock instantly as you flip the stick, but really in real life it's not only impossible to go to full lock so quickly but it's also useless unless you're parking, no corner requires you to go all the way, with default settings it's incredibly hard to make small adjustments. Speed sensitive steering is an absolute must for pad users, and as much people like to call it cheating/babysiting it's the only way to make it playable on a pad. I don't know how anyone can drive with PCars' default settings, you'd need a ton of patience and surgeon's fingers.
you are correct too.
I just think that the system forza uses for control on joypad, is far more complicated than just a "speed-sensitive steering", as it takes a whole lot of dynamic factors in consideration,
and calling it simply 'speed-sensitive' is a understatement and a poor explanation of what it does.
Forza actually got a lot of flak for that system.
People like to trash things without actually knowing what they are. Gran Turismo has a ton of input filters, hell it straight up eliminates torque steer compared to wheels, the only reason it's not trashed more often is because it doesn't show any telemetry and is generally considered very realistic without any evidence to support that claim, but what can you do, fanboys gonna fanboy.
PCars shows what it's like to have raw input and show's that it's terrible, Forza 5's simulation steering is kinda similar but not quite as extreme. Maybe some people like it, they can play it whichever way they please.
by who? by "hardcore simmers" trying their luck on a stand in a shop with a joypad?
forza gets a lot of flack. you know why? 'cause its very good.
Pretty much, many people complained that you should be able to do what you can do in PCars.
TBH I don't have any problems with either game, I prefer PCars 'depth' of physics though, Forza feels quite shallow and one dimensional back to back.
the fact that there are some cars having pretty much irrational behaviors, let alone plenty of physics bugs, should make your comment end with /s
but preference is preference of course, no two ways about it
I think a lot if it is Forza's overly smooth tracks. Takes a lot of the life out of things. I think its quite good otherwise, if a little less realistic. And of course Project Cars has excellent sound. Forza does too, but PCars is better still.
Just got done with round five of the Ginetta UK Challenge.
The sprint stage of it was rainy and in tight confines through the first lap. Didn't take the top spot, but enjoyed that race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrZ2w-1wFU
I took first the in 5 lap portion of the round. Didn't record live, but got the replay uploading. Also had some rain, but not as heavy.
The sprint stage of it was rainy and in tight confines through the first lap. Didn't take the top spot, but enjoyed that race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrZ2w-1wFU
I took first the in 5 lap portion of the round. Didn't record live, but got the replay uploading. Also had some rain, but not as heavy.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I usually tend to praise Forza (a lot) while giving GT cred where it's due, but yes, somehow the physics in Project CARS feel more alive.
My personal guess is that it's 2 things:
1. The suspension model in PCars is transferring the forces depending on it's jerk (thats the "rate of change of acceleration") and in many cars this can be setup by the player (edit: a fast bump can transfer force like the car was made of concrete, while slow weight-shifting body of the same car can feel like the suspension consists of ikea bed springs from the 70's). I bet Turn 10 says that they are doing that since Forza 1, but it feels way more obvious and "alive" in Project CARS.
2. The overdone grip of PCARS' tyre model, where every car feels like it's on a set of 30,000$ slick race tyres is transferring more force into the suspension oscillatory system (due to higher possible de- and acceleration, where Forza's tyre model would break traction), which makes weight shifting easier too "feel". Best example for me is the RUF RGT-8 road car: In Forza this car would have it's rear flying in the corners very easily, in PCARS the weight shift to the back under acceleration gives the rear tyres so much downforce (I don't mean drag-downforce, I mean weight-shift downforce) that it almost claws into the asphalt and even induces understeer. Maybe it's more realistic in Forza, considering the insane torque and power of that RUF, but in PCARS it feels like a Porsche should feel by design. As I said, maybe not more realistic, but the physics feel more alive.
There are definate differences in the longitudinal slip curve, I think that Forzas is much more in line with what you get in real life, but I think the lateral slip curve in Forza is much more forgiving than you'd experience in real life.
Really looking forward to what FM6 brings to the table.
Really looking forward to what FM6 brings to the table.
everthustodeadbeats
Member
Thanks for those settings. They've improved things ALOT for me.
ReDelicious
Member
Taken from Twitter... This is amazing hahaha
The file name makes just as much sense as the content of the GIF.
that's gfycat for you. best file names available
to finish this parenthesis, I havent had the pleasure of getting behind the wheel of a rt 12 S yet (the ruf in forza 5), but I do understand enough to know this:
with 685hp, 880Nm of torque, rear wheel drive, rear engine and a 40-60% weight distribution at best, and with two big turbos giving you all that huge torque at around 4.000rpm, no matter what porsche hole you are trying to fill playing with that car, it aint no fuckin' carrera
its a beast!and I seriously doubt that in case one would attempt to enter a turn like that on this car (pull down a gear or two, turn wheel, full throttle) in real life , the behavior would be that ...weight shift gives rear tires ..claws.
to understand better, remove about 400Nm (half) ot torque from that engine, and you still got yourself enough torque to be a drift car on these great japanese shows.
but 880nm coming out of turbo spool to the rear wheels.... you dont turn this car like a normal car (or porsche) under load.
in fact, I think its one of those cars where you are on an absolutely straight road, and you hold strongly the wheel directly straight, and you still got sweat on your forehead as you keep the gas depressed on full and go through the gears. 8)
its no carrera, no matter if it looks like one.
so, one can argue that a sim, by being ..less connected to realism, it feels more alive/realistic.
again, I guess it comes down to preference.
Not heard of that one before. Have you checked the reported bug thread on the Bone section of the pCARS forums?
click
If it's not on there then report it. It will get investigated.
I had that same issue every time I tried qualifying as well, although it would crash at different stages for me.
I tried to 'fix' it by some simple Xbox troubleshooting (hard reset, etc.) but the only solution was to skip the event entirely. It hasn't happened on any other event before or after.
Ok, so what's the story with the BMW M1's gearbox?
It seems like it's the only car that I have trouble with shifting gears in especially 3rd gear.
I'm almost always in neutral when trying to get into 3rd or 4th.
Is this some inherent trait that the real life cars has or something?
It's fucking annoying to say the least..
It seems like it's the only car that I have trouble with shifting gears in especially 3rd gear.
I'm almost always in neutral when trying to get into 3rd or 4th.
Is this some inherent trait that the real life cars has or something?
It's fucking annoying to say the least..
does the car exhibit the same behavior when using auto clutch or auto shift? If not, in before mascot link to forum to report bug
Gearboxes are modelled following their true counterparts. How truthful to the real thing this case is, I dont know.
Hmm Okay as I just checked drivers and I am still on the same driver 14.12 running a 290
Anton668
Member
15.5 beta is out...
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Just got my PC copy (decided to skip it on PS4).
Been playing on keyboard, damn l need a pad or steering wheel.
Been playing on keyboard, damn l need a pad or steering wheel.
That sounds like a nightmare.
Project CARS one million copies sold.
I have to say that I'm really surprised; I knew that the game was going to do quite well, but the speed they've reached a million copies for a game that still has very hardcore niche roots is really, really good. Not regretting putting that Manager toolpack in in the slightest, I not only got the game I've been wishing for a long time, but I might've just got some additional funding in for our own game
EDIT:
Totally missed Megasoum's post
Update on the patch too:
I have to say that I'm really surprised; I knew that the game was going to do quite well, but the speed they've reached a million copies for a game that still has very hardcore niche roots is really, really good. Not regretting putting that Manager toolpack in in the slightest, I not only got the game I've been wishing for a long time, but I might've just got some additional funding in for our own game
EDIT:
Totally missed Megasoum's post
Update on the patch too:
Ian Bell said:
TylerDurden4321
Member
to finish this parenthesis, I havent had the pleasure of getting behind the wheel of a rt 12 S yet (the ruf in forza 5), but I do understand enough to know this:
with 685hp, 880Nm of torque, rear wheel drive, rear engine and a 40-60% weight distribution at best, and with two big turbos giving you all that huge torque at around 4.000rpm, no matter what porsche hole you are trying to fill playing with that car, it aint no fuckin' carrera
and I seriously doubt that in case one would attempt to enter a turn like that on this car (pull down a gear or two, turn wheel, full throttle) in real life , the behavior would be that ...weight shift gives rear tires ..claws.
to understand better, remove about 400Nm (half) ot torque from that engine, and you still got yourself enough torque to be a drift car on these great japanese shows.
but 880nm coming out of turbo spool to the rear wheels.... you dont turn this car like a normal car (or porsche) under load.
in fact, I think its one of those cars where you are on an absolutely straight road, and you hold strongly the wheel directly straight, and you still got sweat on your forehead as you keep the gas depressed on full and go through the gears. 8)
its no carrera, no matter if it looks like one.
To be fair the RT12s from Forza 5 has 880Nm while the RGT-8 has ~500Nm I think... and in Forza you can replace the the motor with a "normal" Porsche motor that isn't used by any other car in the game (I think it's a 997 Carrera S motor) and while you do break less of a sweat accelerating out of a corner you still don't get that "Porsche" feel... (maybe 400Nm is still too much for those tyres though).
As I said, the longitudinal tyre grip seems to be less realistic (at least for road legal tyres, for Formula tyres, I'm not so sure), but the suspension model in PCARS feels more realistic in my opinion, of course this is exaggerated by the higher tyre grip, which makes that feeling somewhat inaccurate again.
Actually both games probably got it pretty wrong, because modern sport cars are so highly computer controlled. ZF active kinetic control for active rear wheel steering for example, Ferrari has computer controlled magnetorheological suspension systems, Mercedes has a 3D camera road scanning system that sets up the suspension ahead of time and a lot of non-super cars use torque vectoring eDiffs that are very poorly if at all simulated... (actually the Lancers AWD variable torque split center differential feels pretty good in PCARS whereas it feels like a static center diff in Forza 5 btw).
Is that true for road cars though? I'm not a good enough driver to test that myself.
[Some guys from the PC-sim crowd are probably rolling their eyes when they read stuff like this and being used to the physics of rFactor 2 or iRacing.]
hey! thanks for the engine swaps link! nice info, makes my life more easy
browsing it, I think I will create a couple of rufs that mimic porsche in specs.
and also that condensed ferrari n/a v8, this could mimic the rgt-8, just for comparisons sake.
(and no, 400nm is not too much, but you need to feather the gas in turns, not only because torque, but because the way chassis/weight is. if you get a ride in a 911 turbo, you will get a feel that under full throttle, the front of the car wants to lift, and thats on a straight line, just wot'ing it)
Neuromancer
Member
Has anyone settled on a good set of sliders and settings for the T500RS on PS4?
And I love those details.
I don't know, perhaps the M1 needed less aggressive shifting than other cars in its time.
Would've been nice to have that kind of information detailed by SMS...
Fox Mulder
Member
Project CARS one million copies sold.
I have to say that I'm really surprised; I knew that the game was going to do quite well, but the speed they've reached a million copies for a game that still has very hardcore niche roots is really, really good. Not regretting putting that Manager toolpack in in the slightest, I not only got the game I've been wishing for a long time, but I might've just got some additional funding in for our own game
EDIT:
Totally missed Megasoum's post
Update on the patch too:
i wonder what the console split is, as I imagine the ps4 is thirsty for the genre with GT still 32 years away.
seattle6418
Member
It's weird, i'm glad i'm not the only one. I've seen this problem during the bavarian legend trial. The car has trouble engaging 4th gear like always.
There's a weird fix for this: shift without lifting off. It's very weird, doesn't give you any broken gearbox or anything, and it works. You'll never miss a gear again.
My experience tells me that probably it was like this in the real thing. During development I saw plenty of people moaning about the M3 E30 not requiring clutching to shift gears. It turns out the real thing had this special gearbox that allowed shifting like that.
On an unrelated note, here's the second race of LFO Club's Ginetta Chapionship. This time with a lot more fight and a worse result than the last.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFpu_xyzvo
Vigilant Gambit
Member
You know, the more I think about it, the more this "NDA'd Logitech support" points to G29 compatibility and not G27.
More or less a given that its G29 compatibility by now, the main question is wether or not the legacy support comes as a package deal or not.
It's in gameplay options.
Finally a new track in the GT4 portion of my career. Took the US Trophy event so I could see more than the UK tracks. Poor qualification for race 1, but will have the top spot for the race 2 of round 1.
Rolling starts are a bit messy, but do keep the race a little more realistic off the start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyUnVskYSE
Rolling starts are a bit messy, but do keep the race a little more realistic off the start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyUnVskYSE
Just did my first LMP3 Semi Pro race weekend. I really need to up my qualification time because 10 minutes is nothing on a track that takes 2+ minutes (Road America). Thanks to that I only managed to get one tim on the board which got me pole position (2:11). The most frustrating thing about it was that both laps after that one were 2:10, but I touched a bit of grass here and there
First race was a win. Second race I managed to drive from 20th position all the way up to 7th. If I didn't mess up in that long turn near near the last sector I could have gotten up to 5th or 6th I think. Went a little off track there trying to catch up with the one before me which caused me some delay. Ultimately caught up with him at the straight end towards the finish, so that felt good
I love the speed of these cars by the way. Nice upgrade after all those karts and those slow Formula Rookie cars.
First race was a win. Second race I managed to drive from 20th position all the way up to 7th. If I didn't mess up in that long turn near near the last sector I could have gotten up to 5th or 6th I think. Went a little off track there trying to catch up with the one before me which caused me some delay. Ultimately caught up with him at the straight end towards the finish, so that felt good
I love the speed of these cars by the way. Nice upgrade after all those karts and those slow Formula Rookie cars.