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Project GODUS (Populous reinvention) Kickstarter by 22cans [Ended, £526K Funded]
- Thread starter Minsc
- Start date
which1spink
Banned
It's almost like I can't do anything right around here.
Don't fucking bother about Gaf's opinions, I'm dead serious. If you do that, you have already lost.
exmachina64
Banned
Sam, I appreciate you posting here and soliciting GAF's opinions. Don't let what Bomber Bob said get to you.
Psychotext
Member
Sadly there's a number of board dwellers out there who think it's their life's calling to attack Molyneux (and anything he's linked to) because of his "lies".
They'll likely spend the rest of their pointless, ignorant lives doing it so it's probably best you get use to ignoring them.
They'll likely spend the rest of their pointless, ignorant lives doing it so it's probably best you get use to ignoring them.
Sentenza
Member
Jesus Christ if you aren't trying too hard.
This must be the gaming equivalent of "leave Britney alone!".
Psychotext
Member
Good god, it's like a dog whistle. I'm seriously impressed at your response time.
But no, do continue to embarrass yourself. I'm sure if you go at it long enough and hard enough you'll make it so he never says anything, and still you'll accuse him of breaking promises.
Edit - Not going to say another word on the subject. Don't want to continue derailing the thread.
But no, do continue to embarrass yourself. I'm sure if you go at it long enough and hard enough you'll make it so he never says anything, and still you'll accuse him of breaking promises.
Edit - Not going to say another word on the subject. Don't want to continue derailing the thread.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Likely that we will see an awesome game like Populous 3 from Molyneux again....
Sentenza
Member
As I said, you're trying WAY too hard.
I just openend this thread from my subscription list after ignoring it for at least two days and you're trying to hint that I would be stalking you all around. Grow up.
Also, how quickly I answered to your bullshit is pointless; it's bullshit anyway.
YOU are the most embarrassing one I'm reading here, actually; and NO, I'm not limiting this comparation between me and you, just to be clear.
I don't even understand how someone like you, calling names and making idiotic assumptions about other users' lives, could blame someone else to be embarrassing with a straight face.
Psychotext
Member
I don't know much about graphics tech, but is the sort of style they're showing in the concept art actually doable? I really like it.
MDSLKTR
Member
Haha so much this.
yea, i like the concept art too..
Huw_Dawson
Member
Funnily enough, Populous: The Beginning is the only Bullfrog game made after Molyneux formed Lionhead. I don't believe it had creative input from Molyneux.
(P:TB is my favourite game of all time, by the way).
I'm glad that they've understood the importance of controls. Then thing that I worry about is - like everything else - that the game becomes unfocused. Everything in the game should reinforce the central feel of the game. So, for example, there should not be a point where you wade into a mass of menus to select an item to give to the people if the game is mostly about in-game activities.
The central bulk of the game should be your people, the landscape and the God stuff. So if the feature list goes off these three bases then the game will suffer. Ideally the simulation stuff should take a back seat to ensure that the game itself is intact.
I do like the idea of summoning a tornado and being able to use it in one area or over a wider area to different strategic effect. That's a good game design concept. More of them, less of the superfluous stuff.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
From Dust was an excellent game that was easy to control and had brought a unique gameplay experience to the god game genre. I wish it was harder and more optimized for PC.
Imp the Dimp
Member
It will probably make it with the obligatory final days push but people don't see to be particularly crazy over it.
If the game looks anything like the concept art then that alone will be enough for me to play it That concept art is gorgeous, and it's entirely reasonable that the final game render in that way.
Just finished watching the 4th design update. There's some cool ideas in there and the collaborative design sounds like it's working well. I'm really looking forward to seeing the complete design outline.
That concept art is gorgeous, and it's entirely reasonable that the final game render in that way.Just finished watching the 4th design update. There's some cool ideas in there and the collaborative design sounds like it's working well. I'm really looking forward to seeing the complete design outline.
CecilRousso
Member
Thank you for that, much appriciated.
Hey man, I'm the one doing that, I put £50 of my own money into that. Don't think it's desperate just helping targeting people who liked Bullfrog games... It's almost like I can't do anything right around here.
Still waiting for an answer to my question in this thread. I think a lot of other people are too. In case you missed it:
People have concerns with Peter's history of over-promising and under-delivering on promised features of games. Given that this time you are asking for money upfront how do you respond to those concerns? Why should people give you money based on promises? Sell this game to me.
Or you can ignore it again which is an answer in itself.
Seriously.
I really wish people would stop over emphasising the 'Peter Molenuex' aspect of this kickstarter project and start taking it a bit more seriously. As I said in a previous post, there is more to 22cans than just Peter. Now, I really like Peter, I find him incredibly enthusiastic and a dreamer. Yeah, alot of his ideas don't come to full fruition and some fall flat on their face. But some gems do really shine from the pile. I don't have any good examples to hand, but I bet alot of the good inventors/designers trip up a few times before they make a truely innovative product.
Another thing about Peter, that I believe, is that he personally takes responsibility when his team can't deliver on his promises. Now, whether that is down to Peter over promising, the tech not being up to par to meet his lofty expectations, publisher pressure of due to some issue with his team - he takes responsibility. He doesn't blame anyone else.
But what excites me more about 22cans is the fact the team is made up from alot of the old Bullfrog team - a team that, I would argue, were pioneers back in the day carving genres out of stone and delivering some awesome, timeless gameplay experiences that, to this day, haven't been surpassed. In fact, some of my favourite games have been Bullfrog titles, Populous being one of them. My hope is that this team of Veterans and a development environment not plagued by publisher pressure will allow 22cans to realise their potential.
If anything, I would argue that the daily development videos 22cans are releasing should be alleviating any concerns people may have about Peter over promising. Both Peter and Jack come across as if they are genuinely wanting the communities feedback on alot of the ideas that are currently on the table. They seem open to criticism about their ideas and, hopefully, they will highlight the areas of the game they have changed due to community feedback - I think this is an important issue that 22cans should address as development continues. What saddens me is that, instead, they seem to be getting alot of vitriol aimed at Peter as if he personally wronged them in some way. It's incredible.
SamVT, hopefully you don't take too much of the focus on Peter and the criticisms of 'desperation' to heart. There are gamers here in Neogaf and out there who are genuinely interested in this Kickstarter and want to see it come to life.
I really wish people would stop over emphasising the 'Peter Molenuex' aspect of this kickstarter project and start taking it a bit more seriously. As I said in a previous post, there is more to 22cans than just Peter. Now, I really like Peter, I find him incredibly enthusiastic and a dreamer. Yeah, alot of his ideas don't come to full fruition and some fall flat on their face. But some gems do really shine from the pile. I don't have any good examples to hand, but I bet alot of the good inventors/designers trip up a few times before they make a truely innovative product.
Another thing about Peter, that I believe, is that he personally takes responsibility when his team can't deliver on his promises. Now, whether that is down to Peter over promising, the tech not being up to par to meet his lofty expectations, publisher pressure of due to some issue with his team - he takes responsibility. He doesn't blame anyone else.
But what excites me more about 22cans is the fact the team is made up from alot of the old Bullfrog team - a team that, I would argue, were pioneers back in the day carving genres out of stone and delivering some awesome, timeless gameplay experiences that, to this day, haven't been surpassed. In fact, some of my favourite games have been Bullfrog titles, Populous being one of them. My hope is that this team of Veterans and a development environment not plagued by publisher pressure will allow 22cans to realise their potential.
If anything, I would argue that the daily development videos 22cans are releasing should be alleviating any concerns people may have about Peter over promising. Both Peter and Jack come across as if they are genuinely wanting the communities feedback on alot of the ideas that are currently on the table. They seem open to criticism about their ideas and, hopefully, they will highlight the areas of the game they have changed due to community feedback - I think this is an important issue that 22cans should address as development continues. What saddens me is that, instead, they seem to be getting alot of vitriol aimed at Peter as if he personally wronged them in some way. It's incredible.
SamVT, hopefully you don't take too much of the focus on Peter and the criticisms of 'desperation' to heart. There are gamers here in Neogaf and out there who are genuinely interested in this Kickstarter and want to see it come to life.
Sentenza
Member
Well, they also did Curiosity so far. Not exactly a stunning track record.
Shai-Tan
Banned
says the person on every page writing negative opinions. why not do something better with your time? your opinion isn't that important. i came in here to read a bit about the game and most of it is your trying to dominate the discussion
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, I don't flip my opinion every five posts, you definitely got me.
Because how I spend my time it's none of your business, for a start.
Even ignoring that I've plenty to keep me busy between my posts.
Honestly, I don't think your question parts from the right place. In first place, you talk over a "history of over-promising and under-delivering" which is a pretty disrespectful thing to say. Would you address him like that in person?
There will be a prototype next week I have read in the last update (are they public?, not sure). Let the game speak for itself instead of focusing on your perception of Molyneux.
.
I don't know if his criticisms are valid, but how is this " a history of over-promising and under-delivering" disrespectful for his person in any possible way? I've seen a lot of debates over Fable et its sequels in this very forum.
i don´t think peter is the problem. The "for mobile OS" and "seven Month of Development" and "no ingame material to show" is the problem.
With focus on PC, 2014 release and some nice ingame footage it would easily get millions at Kickstarter.
Now it is only 22 People want to make a God Game in seven months for PC, iOS and Android and with no real footage that shows how it will look like. Why should you pledge 25-30$ for a mobile game?
I hope the prototype will look good.
With focus on PC, 2014 release and some nice ingame footage it would easily get millions at Kickstarter.
Now it is only 22 People want to make a God Game in seven months for PC, iOS and Android and with no real footage that shows how it will look like. Why should you pledge 25-30$ for a mobile game?
I hope the prototype will look good.
I read my first interview with Molyneux in July of 1997, and I perfectly understand when he is talking about concepts or things he has as a goal. They are not promises, just intentions, which become promises or even features when they get their place in a headline.
Saying that, I would never call someone liar in his face even if that was my perception. I don't find it respectful at all, but again, that's an opinion.
I am agree with most of this. I already made my leap of faith, but the prototype will be key.
However, I have no concerns with mobile. I see myself playing a God game in a tablet without problems, I would even find it appealing.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Oh please.
The only reason 22 Cans are getting any exposure at all is because they're using Peter as the PR front man to leverage his gaming and press legacy to get media coverage for his latest endeavour.
Without that they are just one of many gaming/tech startups with nothing to differentiate them from the rest.
If you want to judge them on what they've done so far, the failure of their network and scaling for Curiosity is nothing to be proud of for such a high profile experienced team.
There was nothing stopping 22 Cans putting Godus on Kickstarter as a new game idea without attaching it to Peter and his previous work. But of course they chose not to because without him it would not get any exposure and definitely wouldn't be funded.
22 Cans can't have it both ways, wanting to be judged on their achievements and then using Peter's reputation only when it suits them. If you want to use a PR figurehead to promote your enterprise then you have to accept all the baggage that comes with that figurehead.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
lol, dude's desperate
fb ads! way to waste money molineux!
FB ads are anything but a waste of money.
Psychotext
Member
From what I'm seeing it seems to be a fantastic way of interacting directly with your end user without publishers getting in the way and telling you to do it their way, or not at all. This specifically with regards to stretch goals, where the public gets to decide as a whole if a feature interests them enough collectively to increase the funding available.
All fairly irrelevant in this case though as I remain pretty convinced that it wont hit its initial target. Though I guess that could change if a prototype becomes available.
I interviewed Peter a day or two back, and he said this exact same thing. Interview text is just being edited.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Nope, he's right.
You're trying way too hard.
It's not your job to defend Molyneux on an anonymous internet forum.
My initial thought was that you worked for 22cans because your zeal was so zealy.
witchedwiz
Member
mmm
considering it's molyneux we're talking about, this would be my first reaction..
I love populous, but lately peter never fails to fail me
considering it's molyneux we're talking about, this would be my first reaction..
I love populous, but lately peter never fails to fail me
Psychotext
Member
What's this?
Baron_Calamity
Member
I would back this but I'm suffering kickstarter burn out. I have several hundred on kickstarter projects from famous game developers and most of them aren't turning out. Maybe the reason why publishers aren't working with them isn't because their ideas suck or they don't make good games that sell. Maybe its because they are terrible resource managers?
If 22cans makes this game and it comes out, I will gladly buy it. I've bought everything Peter has ever worked on (except the Fable Kinect game, if he even did work on it). I'm done giving money up front. At least for awhile.
If 22cans makes this game and it comes out, I will gladly buy it. I've bought everything Peter has ever worked on (except the Fable Kinect game, if he even did work on it). I'm done giving money up front. At least for awhile.
Castor Krieg
Banned
A very good point. 22Cans can be other people, but do not tell me it is impossible to ignore Molyneux creative input. And since that is shit lately - well, go figure.
I think it's true for many people and I see a KS crash in the near future, at least when it comes to games. People will only pay for so many games they won't be seeing for a couple of years.
I've only given money to Jane Jensen and Chris Roberts. Jensen I trust to deliver, both literally and quality-wise. Roberts not so much, but I had enough fun with UAKM and Pandora to consider my pledge a thank-you gift in case the new game never comes out or turns out to be garbage.
There were other projects I was interested in, but the idea of adding games that don't even exist to my backlog seems insane to me. It would take that Fate of Atlantis sequel to get me to KS another game at this point.
He is asking for money upfront this time. Before when his games came out I could do exactly what you said. I could let the game speak for itself and decide if it was worth my money. Now this game comes along that sounds interesting from a guy who made some of my favourite games of all time and I can't get an answer to a very relevant question. For the last 10 years he has avoided answering any questions about his games not living up to his own hype.
Now Ben comes on here and says look at my game, I will answer your questions and concerns. But again he wont answer mine. This is how he answers:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44603117&postcount=76
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/11/22/peter-molyneuxs-tears-i-still-believe-so-much/
Peter Molyneux said:
No answer. How do we stop those stupid mistakes from happening?
You say it's disrespectful. But there you have in his own words him saying exactly what I have. Look at the dates on my question and that interview. Here is Ben asking for money on NeoGAF(Ben was the original poster). If he wants us to believe the whole team is not just Peter, then answer my question.
How do you convince us that the features you are promising are not more of the same impossible promises. How do you intend to manage this problem that Peter admits himself, going forward, now that you don't have publishing money behind you?
People have been saying this since the day Double Fine came on board. It's nearly a year later and games continue to get funded, records continue to be broken, etc. You may not like it but Kickstarter will continue to be a legitimate option.
Projects will fail. Perhaps even a game that I've backed. Most everyone involved understands and accepts this since the industry is much better off with crowdfunding.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Every time I see this thread I read the title as "Peter/22 cans kick-starter", as in cancels. Very confusing.
IMACOMPUTA
Member
I don't believe in God.
I don't believe in Molyneux.
This is not for me.
I don't believe in Molyneux.
This is not for me.
I always read the thread title as "Peter Molyneux Cans Kickstarter for Godus", and get happy that the Kickstarter has been shut down and he's given up on the shameless panhandling. Then I realize it's "22 Cans".
Blank ads on Facebook get the same number of clicks as actual ads:
"The click-through rate on the blank ads was 0.08 per cent, just 0.01 per cent short of the average ad."
Facebook seems like a pretty big waste of money to me.
Blank ads on Facebook get the same number of clicks as actual ads:
"The click-through rate on the blank ads was 0.08 per cent, just 0.01 per cent short of the average ad."
Facebook seems like a pretty big waste of money to me.
Psychotext
Member
Surely that depends how well the ad is targeted? If you were to put a FFVII remake kickstarter advert on a FF fan group then I reckon it would get a shitload of clicks.
So I'd like to answer the first part of your question with my personal opinion. Yes I represent 22cans since I work there and own shares - but it's important to mention that behind that name there's people. I don't use an alt on here and no nickname.
Peter has done some really amazing games in his career, games that have given me months of pleasure. I also know from having been his friend for nearly 15 years and having worked with him for little under 9 that he is extremely passionate about this industry and that he has the industry's best interests at heart. It's fair to say that this passion doesn't always translate into everything working out the way I imagined it to be, or how he explained it when I read about it. I've had this happen to myself, but joining a game development team, made some way to understand the why behind it.
Game design changes all the time. Some movie directors do all their prep on paper first before shooting or editing anything, the end result is identical to what was put on paper. Others ad lib on set, an opportunity arises in the moment where a shot or scene works better than what was planned. A similar process happens in video games, but instead it's done through playing the game over and over again. Not everything the man has ever said has always been implemented or become the feature he and everyone else imagined it to be. But hey...I think it's better to fail while trying than to never have tried at all. You can see a lot of the ideas (old and new!) he did manage to put into a game now be a staple of what we consider the interactive entertainment industry to be. No doubt there's several others who did the same thing and who are still doing this - but there's also a large amount who have left the games biz altogether now and that saddens me.
On the one hand people want innovation, but when the dreams that drive that innovation shatter or fail for whatever reason (budget, time, technology, priority or fun-factor) then we as an audience cry. I know I do it myself some times. The worst culprit in my view is the discrepancy between the different aspects of a game's promotion. In the old Black&White days it was pretty straight forward, if you drilled down with the developer features were extensively detailed in their explanation. Blue Byte with Settlers were the same, as were Origin and Ultima. Nowadays a developer chat on Quakenet is as rare as a French boeuf tartare, but reddit has picked some of this up and it seems the independent game development industry is re-discovering this kind of direct communication with its community and Kickstarter is a unique platform.
Now for the second part of your question to 'sell the game to you' and I presume you mean pitch my and 22cans' Kickstarter for GODUS. The following is a blurb introduction written by Jack who's the second designer on the team (the other being Peter). Jack's a wonderful guy, but once he sets his teeth into something he doesn't let go, especially of it comes to design. Seeing him and Peter talk and talk and talk about GODUS and Curiosity before it sometimes is gold dust, sometimes drives me mad! Anyway here it is; un-edited.
The last 5 days Jack has been recording these design meetings and we've been posting them on YouTube and as an update on our KS page. I'll only post one for now but you can find the rest of them on YT or KS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKP2qoY2tac
This is a concept image of what we'd like the game to look like, it's still early days in terms of protoype but Fabs one of our programers is working on something. Sadly, he's been of ill the last few days.
One idea that Peter and Jack spoke about in another video and asked feedback for is on the idea of troublesome followers; characters you will find who give you bonuses;
Immortal Bob - He is almost utterly indestructible; with a lot of funny lines (idea directly from B&W) and you have to find the way to kill of Immortal Bob to get that belief bonus.
Suicidal Sid - He just wants to end it all, he will rush to nearest cliff and - like a lemming - dive off. If you keep him alive you get a bonus.
Fragile Fiona - She's the opposite of Bob, the smallest shock and she'll kick the bucket (Monty Python inspired) but if you keep her alive long enough you get belief bonus.
We love the humour or is it too trivial.
Ehm...without Peter the company wouldn't exist. He founded it and has personally funded it since the beginning. He also personally funded the development and monthly bandwidth / server cost of Curiosity. Peter invented the god game genre with Glenn (or stumbled upon as they put it), it's ridiculous to suggest he wouldn't be allowed to put a creative project for GODUS to the Kickstarter and Gaming community, simply because he has had a career that spans more than two decades.
No I know and my apologies if I came across distressed or anything like that, but doing something like a Kickstarter is a very emotional thing
You can't help but take things personally when people comment on what you're doing. It's best not to do that but I've got my bad days just like my good days. Thanks for your words though man
la flama blanca
Banned
Don't respect Molyneux as a game designer, but I hope those giving him money end up getting what they hoped for in the end.
stuminus3
Member
I'll throw a few bucks into this, looks like Peter back doing what he does best. I'll back him because I'm a huge fan of his 80s games and the wife is a huge fan of Black & White.
Crowd funding isn't about getting fans to pay because there's no other option, in the same way that punk rock isn't about spiky hair and three chords.
Crowd funding isn't about getting fans to pay because there's no other option, in the same way that punk rock isn't about spiky hair and three chords.