Man you used to love this movie, theorized like crazy about it
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Man you used to love this movie, theorized like crazy about it
StriKeVillain
Banned
Grabbed the 3D version for $20 at Best Buy. I'll probably get a chance to watch it over the weekend. Even if the movie is kind of butt, at least the audio/video quality is good.
Ether_Snake
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No actually I didn't. I did theorize, but I didn't like about as soon as an hour after viewing it. I like the theme and visuals, the rest is dumb.
Both are great
GillianSeed79
Member
I watched this last night. I admit I'm pretty dense, but can someone explain some things to me?
What's up with David? Why did he decide to infect scientist guy so scientist's girlfriend would give birth to squid baby? I thought at first that David was an homage to HAL from space oddesey and felt slighted by his human creators, so he decided to become a creator himself.
Who are the engineers and what's the purpose of the planet? The sense I got was that the purpose of the planet was to infect anyone that came there to create aliens or whatever. The engineer that they wake up and goes crazy killing everyone was just on a ship that got caught there right? Are the engineers even the creators? If they are, why do they kill/infect their own people?
What was the point of the scene at the start? Why did the engineer start killing everybody when they woke him up? Is the ship they use to escape at the end the same ship from Alien?
What's up with David? Why did he decide to infect scientist guy so scientist's girlfriend would give birth to squid baby? I thought at first that David was an homage to HAL from space oddesey and felt slighted by his human creators, so he decided to become a creator himself.
Who are the engineers and what's the purpose of the planet? The sense I got was that the purpose of the planet was to infect anyone that came there to create aliens or whatever. The engineer that they wake up and goes crazy killing everyone was just on a ship that got caught there right? Are the engineers even the creators? If they are, why do they kill/infect their own people?
What was the point of the scene at the start? Why did the engineer start killing everybody when they woke him up? Is the ship they use to escape at the end the same ship from Alien?
Just finished it myself and...I would like to know these as well.
Watched it for the first time last night. Thing that immediately jumped out to me was that the 'birth' scene was NO WHERE near as disgusting as people made it out to be. Maybe the shock value of not knowing it was going to happen would've made it worse?
Movie was only okay, but I kinda hope there is a sequel because I want to know more about them engineers. (As in a sequel in which the engineers are further explored, not the xenomorph in the Alien movies)
Movie was only okay, but I kinda hope there is a sequel because I want to know more about them engineers. (As in a sequel in which the engineers are further explored, not the xenomorph in the Alien movies)
Why would thinking he was an homage HAL make you think this is what he wanted? :/
Because Weyland told him to "try harder".
Yes, it's still crazy to contaminate a crew member with an unknown alien agent like that, but we're supposed to think Weyland was desperate and the whole expedition already deemed a bust at that point (yes, after merely a few hours of missing a surviving Engineer and exploring just one site out of several (as we learn at the end of the movie... too bad they didn't bother to look, huh?)).
For the record, Lindelof does think David had it all planned, down to the pregnancy (and was, as Red Letter Media put it, an expert in things that never, ever happened):
Lindelof's gonna Lindelof.
Engineers are extraterrestrials who seed life here and there for... vague purposes.
It seems the moon was exactly what Janek (somehow) guessed it was: a place where the Engineers were manufacturing that ultra-dangerous black goo thingy. Why they repeatedly left a star map to that moon to primitive humans over thousand of years is up to anyone's guess (come up with something nice and maybe they'll use it in the sequel!).
Apparently, two thousand years ago, they got pissed at humanity for some reason (according to Lindelof, you can make an educated guess based on that (yep: Space Jesus)) and were about to leave for Earth with the black goo when there was an outbreak. In all ships at the same time, presumably. Somehow. And the Engineers never bothered to come back either? Or plan another raid? In two thousand years? Ah well. Let's not wonder why that one contaminated Engineer was running towards a room full of the stuff either.
To show how Engineers seed life on planets. Never mind the green. Or what you learned at school regarding natural selection.
Guess he still hates humans.
A deleted scene has him talking a bit before that. As it turns out, he said "why are you here [your maps, dude], what do you want". Doesn't help much.
I believe Scott said something about a couple of sequels being needed to lead into Alien, so... possibly?
GillianSeed79
Member
No, no those are two seperate impressions. At first when I was watching the start of the movie, the cinematogrophy and David kind of reminded me of HAL, especially later on when he seemingly has alterior motives. Kind of like Ash from Alien.
The creator thing I was talking about stems from the conversation with scientist guy at the pool table. Scientist guy spends his whole life trying to find and understand the creators, but is disappointed when they find them. I'm not sure what David's life cycle was, but it seemed like he was only activated when they left for Prometheus and during the time the crew was in stasis he was learning about humanity, his creators. When the crew woke up he realized humans, his creators, were dicks and dumb humans, so he was disappointed. Again, I'm pretty dense though.
Also, why does the squid baby's mother, the scientist lady, have the word terminated on her stasis pod at the start of the movie after David watches her memory?
GillianSeed79
Member
Wait, wait explain Space Jesus to me. So the engineers want to destroy Earth because Jesus was killed? Where is that even hinted at in the movie? I'm going to need to watch this like multiple times.
I'm out of my depth here as I don't know much about writing or filmmaking but strictly speaking as a viewer, the sometimes inexplicable actions of characters, the details surrounding the 'black goo' or the unexplained story regarding the engineers/mural really don't bother me much if at all to be honest. It isn't that these aren't noticeable while viewing the film but these problems never arise above a minor distraction for me. May be the elasticity of my suspension of disbelief is quite high, I don't know.
That's not to say I'm disagreeing with the criticism regarding the writing here. What I'm saying is I can accept those plot conveniences if they serve to take the story into interesting directions or scenarios. That's where I feel the film was disappointing. To me it had such a promising premise and characters in Weyland, David and Shaw but it did very little interesting with all that and I don't think the presence of more traditional aliens instead of this 'black goo' would have changed much. I think I went in wanting a completely different story than the one on screen or ones which existed during preproduction.
That's not to say I'm disagreeing with the criticism regarding the writing here. What I'm saying is I can accept those plot conveniences if they serve to take the story into interesting directions or scenarios. That's where I feel the film was disappointing. To me it had such a promising premise and characters in Weyland, David and Shaw but it did very little interesting with all that and I don't think the presence of more traditional aliens instead of this 'black goo' would have changed much. I think I went in wanting a completely different story than the one on screen or ones which existed during preproduction.
Jack Scofield
Member
Some stupid bullshit that was said once in an interview and people latched onto it. In my opinion, if something's not in a movie, it doesn't exist, so the whole "Space Jesus" thing means absolutely nothing to me.
Scarecrow
Member
People are inferring that, since the Engineers were going to do their bombing run around 2000 years ago (that's how long the corpse was dead for. the one they found in front of the doorway without a head) something bad must have happened around that time on Earth that pissed off these guys that had been visiting humans previous to that.
Around 2000 years ago is when Jesus was supposedly killed. If Jesus was actually an Engineer, it could later have been the inspiration for the Biblical story of Jesus. Us killing one of their envoys is what pissed them off enough to wipe us out.
Some people really hate this idea though, for some reason.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Well, that was major meh. The engineers, who were humans themselves, created life on other planets by destroying already the existing life. We've seen this in other scifi movies (Star Trek Genesis Effect). The lady scientist has a face hugger taken from her stomach which grows to hugh proportions. It snairs the engineer, and an alien pops out.
What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
CadetMahoney
Member
The 2000 year thing suggestion came first from Alien (1979) which took place in 2128 I believe. Not that anyone really counting.
Huh? ...
Yeah but well, the space jesus thing is kinda official, probably from the early scripts. It's not a fan theory at all. Sure they can change it after all, but there aren't tons of other events that would lead to the destruction of humanity 2000 years ago.
And I still feel frustrated that the paintings in those caves lead the team to a planet which harbors a military installation whose sole purpose is to destroy humanity. Where's the logic in that?
The "2000 years ago" thing and various religious references still are in the movie though.
And like I said, according to Lindelof, you can make an educated guess as to what changed the Engineers' mind based on what's in the movie, so it doesn't look like the writer considers that idea scrapped.
Man, this movie must have been like 2 hours of silence for you then.
Shafto
Member
I watched it last night, and I thought of the whole story of Prometheus given at the start - some of the engineer's wanted to give us the power of the Gods.
I know people have theorised that there are different sects of engineers etc, but it's maybe just much simpler if we include the 'Jesus' theory.
Clearly, they'd sent envoys - envoys giving us clues to get the power of the Gods eventually (I.E. A map with directions to their wonder-substance). No problem. Except, one envoy, sent 2,000 years ago, got the Jesus-treatment. So, they decide to wipe out humanity instead. The Xenos are completely unrelated - just another experiment.
Think about it - the Gods offer man fire, man kills one of the Gods. I'm pretty sure you'd use fire to wipe them all out for the poetic irony.
Shafto
Member
On another note, I also just watched the deleted scenes.
Janek mentions a story about scientists and bio-weapons, and comes to the realisation that the "barbed-wire wasn't meant to keep us out, it was meant to keep them in".
What if the Xenos are the Engineers equivalent of barbed-wire?
Janek mentions a story about scientists and bio-weapons, and comes to the realisation that the "barbed-wire wasn't meant to keep us out, it was meant to keep them in".
What if the Xenos are the Engineers equivalent of barbed-wire?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Janek sure knows a lot about an advanced sentient species for a pilot with who just landed at one of their sites.
I bet when he left the two dickheads without comms, he was actually going back to his quarters to write the rest of the script.
I bet when he left the two dickheads without comms, he was actually going back to his quarters to write the rest of the script.
There's a deleted scene that explains that. He knows/believes it's a military installation that suffered an outbreak because it mirrors a past experience he had himself. He tells the story to Vickers.
Most of the deleted scenes should not have been deleted.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I've actually seen the deleted scene. Just came to take my daily shit on the movie while I read the paper.
Sounds about 10,000 times better than what we got.
"Hey guys, let's make a prequel to Alien"
- OK
"Well you know what, we want it to be very different from Alien after all, so we got this Lindelof guy here and he's gonna do great stuff.
WTF were they thinking
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
What I find absolutely fascinating about Prometheus after reading Spaights' explanation is that it was the studio that was making the right decisions by the story. They just weren't fierce enough with their requests to remove the Alien influence from Prometheus.
If they had asked for a complete rewrite in their determination for an original sci-fi franchise and removed every and all Alien DNA from the film, it really could have been something quite special.
If they had asked for a complete rewrite in their determination for an original sci-fi franchise and removed every and all Alien DNA from the film, it really could have been something quite special.
I dunno, the whole "ancient aliens" premise was very poorly thought-out as well...
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Which part of it that didn't have to tie into any sort of Alien influence seemed poorly thought out?
I think things would be very different from a page one rewrite.
I listed some above.
miller_time22
Neo Member
Not to mention that if this is a military installation as Janek says, then why are the Engineers inviting humans there via those cave paintings? Evidently their plan is to wipe out the humanity they created, but how is inviting a ship to come to LV-233 going to do that? Am I missing something?
Maybe there was a rogue Engineer, who wasn't happy with the others making biological weapons, so he left clues, in hopes that the humans they were trying to eradicate will find their way to this military installation, learn of the truth and rise up against their creators.
I give up..
I give up..
Maybe the cave-painting Aliens made the apparent invitation some time (long?) before the moon was turned into a military installation. The dating on the exoskeleton they found was...2000 years old I think? We're told the engineers made us and then changed their minds. Maybe they changed their minds in the time between cave painting dudes and 2000 years ago.
Or maybe I'm wrong about the timeline here
The only way out I'd see would be that it wasn't always a military installation, but I don't think Scott or Lindelof have ever hinted at that possibility. It looks like it's just as Janek says it is, as absurd as it may be.
In fact, when asked about that, Lindelof actually went "the real question is: was that really an invitation? how fascinating and intriguing! aren't I full of shit!"
Lindelof, Lindelof... Are you saying that maybe the Engineers gave human beings those maps (a configuration precise enough that they would find the right place... with only six dots, which is completely ridiculous, but let's say), like, "here's my phone number, but don't get the wrong idea: I don't expect you to ever use it!"?
Not sure why some don't see where I'm coming from when I argue that Lindelof doesn't give a fuck about his scripts or his audience... It's the same poorly thought out bullshit every fucking time.
I both love and hate that we're still debating the crap plot and motivations of everyone involved in Prometheus. It just shows how well the filmmakers did their job in getting us engrossed in this "new" franchise. Even if we are doing so begrudgingly and with lots of bitter disappointment.
miller_time22
Neo Member
Yeah, this movie makes my head spin, but not in a good way.
I'm just mocking it, personally. I don't think I'm the only one either.
I didn't really get the implication for that. Have engineers visited Earth several times? Or did prehistoric men just paint that out of the blue and if yes, based on what? Some "memories" from their DNA? Ugh. It's the reason why the whole film happens, so a bit of explanation wouldn't hurt. As it stands, it's like the concept is directly ripped off from Stargate but without any of its purpose.
Yeah, if it had been some kind of warning it would have made more sense to paint one of those black goo canisters.
Nappuccino
Member
The whole "these 5 dots are stars and there is only one cluster of stars that has this exact shape" thing is a little silly. Considering the universe is constantly moving, you would expect those stars to have moved some. Not to mention that this is such a simple shape it pretty much has to exist elsewhere in space.
Not just that: Holloway calls the six dots a "galactic system" (?) and explains that it has one sun. What. The. Fuck. Just what are those dots, then?
Oh, and orbiting around that sun is what seems to be a planet. And that planet has a moon capable of sustaining life. In the future, scientists will be using highly advanced Ass-Backwards Sensors that can provide you with detailed information about a moon even as the jury is still out as to whether or not its planet really is a planet.
It's an Alien prequel. That's the only reason why. They artists have the benefit of a built-in audience
Man Holloway is such a shit character. The leads were poorly cast. Only the supporting players are good (Theron, Fass, Pierce). Pierce makes an even bigger impression in the deleted scenes, and Vickers talks about how terrible he looks. The "bad" make up was entirely intentional. The man has artificially prolonged his life and looks more and more grotesque and unnatural with each passing day. This is one of the few critiques of the movie that miss the point IMO
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much, a stand alone film would've been forgotten quickly.
The critique isn't that he looks "bad" or even "unnatural", it's that he looks fake. Bad makeup vs. looking bad.
Watching the 3 hour doc and they talk about how the trilobite is a precursor to the hugger and the deacon the precursor to the Xeno. All of which are the result of mutations that don't really have a purpose. Just the result of cross breeding and generic mutation. Basically the Xeno was biological accident ?
Zombie James
Banned
So that mural with the xeno and facehuggers on it from 2000+ years ago was super-accurately predicting the future?
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