PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!

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Mr. Sam said:
I preferred the idea of space jockeys as these hulking, biomechanical elephantine things, rather than just big guys in elephant suits.
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Same here.
Not a big fan of them being evil either (that design didn't exactly make the Space Jockey look like a threat to me), but I guess that couldn't really be helped once they decided to get rid of the pyramid and move the egg chamber to the derelict instead...


Dascu said:
Did we figure out why the Engineer head exploded?
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Because gratuitous explosions are cool?
(... man, yet another thing I'd want to look for in Spaihts' draft...)
 
lifa-cobex said:
question:

In alien the space jokey/engineer in the pilot seat was HUGE!?

Anyone have anyone theory's to this?
The only thing i can think of to this is the engineers have adapted their DNA to evolve.

or should it be overlooked. Its nothing major i guess but still..
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I would have said either:

a) design inconsistencies
b) the suit fossilised and made it like that (I'm sure the dead engineer outside the ampule room looked bigger in the suit)
or c) retconning to make them seem more human
 
Walked out of the theater feeling bit underwhelmed but after drinking, discussing the movie with a friend and sleeping on it it kinda grew on me. Still I think it wasn't as good it should have been even with realistic expectations.

Can't wait for Blu-ray either way.

/ probably should've posted this on the other thread
 
Wilbury said:
I would have said either:

a) design inconsistencies
b) the suit fossilised and made it like that (I'm sure the dead engineer outside the ampule room looked bigger in the suit)
or c) retconning to make them seem more human
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I think its a retcon making them slightly smaller so they would be on a scale to fit through doors in the film etc.

The original space jockey was different sizes in different shots. They used kids in the wide shots to make it look enormous. When they're close in and examining it it's the real actors and the head looks the same scale as the head/helmet they picked up.
 
Wilbury said:
I would have said either:

a) design inconsistencies
b) the suit fossilised and made it like that (I'm sure the dead engineer outside the ampule room looked bigger in the suit)
or c) retconning to make them seem more human
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It's obviously a retcon, their elephant-like appearance and size went together.

The helmet retcon was a bit of a wincing moment when it happened, but not a huge deal. Apart from how it's all necessary for the whole origin of man thing which is where the film has struggled to tie it all together effectively.

I do think the human aspect would have been salvaged a lot by making the waking up scene a lot more powerful, and not just a shouting match with anger-management issues. That scene should have been epic, much more awe-inspiring. Instead it seems he had to be turned into a psychopath purely so he could be raped by a giant face-hugger to give us the weak final scene of the queen being born.

Leaving us with yet another character whose motives we have to try and conjure up for ourselves.
 
I am totally fine with the majority of the mysteries introduced with this film. I am even happy with the "wait til the sequel" stuff such as the reason the Engineers wanted the humans dead.

I just hate the inconsistencies and overcomplication of the Xenomorph birth process and how it ties into what we know from the previous films. I hate the fact that having discussed the matter here afterwards, it is evident that Shaw's offspring was not the first Alien, which dilutes the impact of that scene and sub-plot entirely. The abortion and the giant hugger attack were visually awesome scenes, but what point do they serve other than to have an excuse to have an Alien appear at the end if this is not an origin story?

Making this an origin story and tweaking it slightly, so that it did take place on LV-426 for example, would have made this movie 10 times better, in my opinion.
 
Chopper said:
I am totally fine with the majority of the mysteries introduced with this film. I am even happy with the "wait til the sequel" stuff such as the reason the Engineers wanted the humans dead.

I just hate the inconsistencies and overcomplication of the Xenomorph birth process and how it ties into what we know from the previous films. I hate the fact that having discussed the matter here afterwards, it is evident that Shaw's offspring was not the first Alien, which dilutes the impact of that scene and sub-plot entirely. The abortion and the giant hugger attack were visually awesome scenes, but what point do they serve other than to have an excuse to have an Alien appear at the end if this is not an origin story?

Making this an origin story and tweaking it slightly, so that it did take place on LV-426 for example, would have made this movie 10 times better, in my opinion.
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It wasn't the first xenomorph, but it could be the first queen.

But yeah the end scene fell flat because it had already been made clear these things had been running about already, and it all seemed far too convenient that the Engineer ended up being raped by it.

It was presented as a hugely important thing, but was more "oh, here we go again".
 
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
 
Chopper said:
I am totally fine with the majority of the mysteries introduced with this film. I am even happy with the "wait til the sequel" stuff such as the reason the Engineers wanted the humans dead.

I just hate the inconsistencies and overcomplication of the Xenomorph birth process and how it ties into what we know from the previous films. I hate the fact that having discussed the matter here afterwards, it is evident that Shaw's offspring was not the first Alien, which dilutes the impact of that scene and sub-plot entirely. The abortion and the giant hugger attack were visually awesome scenes, but what point do they serve other than to have an excuse to have an Alien appear at the end if this is not an origin story?

Making this an origin story and tweaking it slightly, so that it did take place on LV-426 for example, would have made this movie 10 times better, in my opinion.
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I agree the only reason they had Shaw birthing the giant Hugger was so that they could do the xeno reveal at the end. So pretty much the whole point of the main monster was to set up a nod to fans. It didn't really do anything else.
 
DECK'ARD said:
It wasn't the first xenomorph, but it could be the first queen.

But yeah the end scene fell flat because it had already been made clear these things had been running about already, and it all seemed far too convenient that the Engineer ended up being raped by it.

It was presented as a hugely important thing, but was more "oh, here we go again".
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I thought it was cool that the Engineer was killed by it's own weapon, but like you said above the sense of awe when waking up the Engineer - what you believe is the last of your kind, a God that lay the foundations for your own race -, and all you do is shout things at it while it beats things to death.
 
Mr. Sam said:
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
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That's what I had in mind as well. But it was also a newborn, so... Hard to see what it would look like in a few days or even a full year. :)
 
Mr. Sam said:
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
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Yeah i asked this in the thread. I don't understand why it was supposed to be a queen unless i missed something.

I'm still not sure if Ridley Scott is going with the queen idea or the prey turns into eggs cycle as well.
 
Mr. Sam said:
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
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Well one would hope there was more importance to it than that, as the xenomorphs had already been doing their thing for ages and even got their own mural.
 
Mr. Sam said:
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
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I immediately thought it was a queen, because it the camera pans upwards during its reveal, you see a small amber-coloured, pulsating sac near it's pelvis. I assumed it to be an infantile egg sac.

Wilbury said:
I thought it was cool that the Engineer was killed by it's own weapon, but like you said above the sense of awe when waking up the Engineer - what you believe is the last of your kind, a God that lay the foundations for your own race -, and all you do is shout things at it while it beats things to death.
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It was an epic scene, and thought the attack was fucking awesome and brutal. But that was because at the time I thought it meant something. It would have made so much more sense for this to be the origin of the Xenomorphs. A queen being born at the end solidifies how simple it would have been,

Black goo -> Infected Host -> Impregnated host -> Facehugger birth -> Queen born -> Egg cycle begins. Easy. I can understand that.

But it's happened before apparently, only depicted in a very ambiguous fashion. Lame.
 
Mr. Sam said:
People keep saying "queen" but was that an alien queen? I just assumed it was merely a more primitive version of the xenomorph we know and love - like apes are to us.
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People believe it's a queen since it does move the mouth a way the queen alien does in the other alien movies.
 
Chopper said:
Well there you go. They just fucked it up with the vague references to Xenomorphs in the past and by not setting it on LV-426.
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The fact it was on another planet made me think of Mario: "But our princess is in another castle!".

Handy when you need to repeat the same thing again.
 
I don't understand how the scenes were less impressing even though the xenos weren't the first of their kind wtf. Just like in any Alien movie, the things that happen are first to the people experiencing them. Take those scenes as they are. Amazing pieces of cinema and the first contact between humans and xenomorphs.

Some people just seem to desperately want forced connections to the other movies I guess.

And don't forget the huge second mouth.
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That could've been just the first form of the extended mouth all xenos have.

JonnyBrad said:
I'm still not sure if Ridley Scott is going with the queen idea or the prey turns into eggs cycle as well.
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Damn, that's an interesting idea, but they indeed cut that from the movie.


DECK'ARD said:
The fact it was on another planet made me think of Mario: "But our princess is in another castle!".

Handy when you need to repeat the same thing again.
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That would make sense if the movie was about the xenomorphs and not about engineers.
 
zoukka said:
I don't understand how the scenes were less impressing even though the xenos weren't the first of their kind wtf. Just like in any Alien movie, the things that happen are first to the people experiencing them. Take those scenes as they are. Amazing pieces of cinema and the first contact between humans and xenomorphs.

Some people just seem to desperately want forced connections to the other movies I guess.
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It's got nothing to do with the connection to the other films. Logic dictates that a xenomorph comes from a chestburster, which comes from a facehugger, which has to come from an egg (either Alien or human), which seems to have come from the goo parasite. It's not explained how this has happened before, which it has to have done to have a ton of Engineers with holes in their chests. This means that the goo has to have gone into an Engineer, who would have displayed similar symptoms to Holloway. Before that though they would have had to have sex with a fellow Engineer, who then carried the Facehugger inside their womb. After bearing the Facehugger, it would then be a creature that latched onto something in order to make a Xenomorph
 
zoukka said:
That would make sense if the movie was about the xenomorphs and not about engineers.
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The xenomorphs are rather key to it, the Engineers sure thought so.

As far as I can see the only reason it's on another planet is to get round the plot-hole caused by the Deus Ex Machina of "They have other ships" to set up the sequel. They wouldn't have missed so many ships in Aliens.
 
Wilbury said:
This means that the goo has to have gone into an Engineer, who would have displayed similar symptoms to Holloway. Before that though they would have had to have sex with a fellow Engineer, who then carried the Facehugger inside their womb. After bearing the Facehugger, it would then be a creature that latched onto something in order to make a Xenomorph
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I agree except for the sex part. The cockworms were transformed into complete non-zombie organisms by the goo and worms do not have sexes. They are hermaphrodites. Which is a big clue in my opinion and it would make sense for the ultimate beings being hermaphrodites as well!

DECK'ARD said:
As far as I can see the only reason it's on another planet is to get round the plot-hole caused by the Deus Ex Machina of "They have other ships" to set up the sequel. They wouldn't have missed so many ships in Aliens.
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They could've just written the fallen ship to be functional enough to fly if they wanted a plot-hole plug. Also if they'd put the film on LV-426 that would've restricted the script so much.
 
The xenomorph biology seems much more locked in place than what we saw in Prometheus. Everything looked very different, even after emerging from a host. The xenos have very familiar features, even if they do take on characteristics from other species. Again, this could be explained by the black goo, in that it accellerates the mutations.
 
zoukka said:
I agree except for the sex part. The cockworms were transformed into complete non-zombie organisms by the goo and worms do not have sexes. They are hermaphrodites. Which is a big clue in my opinion and it would make sense for the ultimate beings being hermaphrodites as well!
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You could be right I suppose. But the worms seemed at the peak of their evolution, killing Milburn and then just diving back into the goo. It's very non-committal what the goo does, which is a bit confusing. If it's a biological weapon then why does it have 50 different effects?
 
Wilbury said:
You could be right I suppose. But the worms seemed at the peak of their evolution, killing Milburn and then just diving back into the goo. It's very non-committal what the goo does, which is a bit confusing. If it's a biological weapon then why does it have 50 different effects?
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Because it's a magic plot-device.
 
DECK'ARD said:
Because it's a magic plot-device.
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Which apparently ran over your kids too.

Wilbury said:
You could be right I suppose. But the worms seemed at the peak of their evolution, killing Milburn and then just diving back into the goo. It's very non-committal what the goo does, which is a bit confusing. If it's a biological weapon then why does it have 50 different effects?
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To make it interesting? A weapon that adapts to all organisms sounds pretty fucking scary to me :b
 
zoukka said:
They could've just written the fallen ship to be functional enough to fly if they wanted a plot-hole plug. Also if they'd put the film on LV-426 that would've restricted the script so much.
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And give up the OTT rolling spaceship crushing wasted major characters in its path?

They would have never done that.
 
zoukka said:
To make it interesting? A weapon that adapts to all organisms sounds pretty fucking scary to me :b
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I guess so but it just seems like a catch-all device to justify changing everything. The worms changing into what they do makes sense. The xenomorph makes sense as marriage between human and parasite. But when the goo does both of these, as well as pull the Engineer apart at a molecular level and kill him, and change humans who fall face first into demon monsters... it's weird.
 
DECK'ARD said:
And give up the OTT rolling spaceship crushing wasted major characters in its path?

They would have never done that.
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You seem to skip every single argument in this thread with some kind of an attempt of a witty remark.

Wilbury said:
I guess so but it just seems like a catch-all device to justify changing everything. The worms changing into what they do makes sense. The xenomorph makes sense as marriage between human and parasite. But when the goo does both of these, as well as pull the Engineer apart at a molecular level and kill him, and change humans who fall face first into demon monsters... it's weird.
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Yeah I guess that and the short length of the movie can create a confusing effect. I thought about the zombies as decomposing vessels that would not last long. All the organisms affected by the goo become super aggressive which fits nicely with the whole bioweapon explanation.

And I never thought the opening scene contained the same exact goo even though that's an easy assumption to make I guess.
 
Wilbury said:
I guess so but it just seems like a catch-all device to justify changing everything. The worms changing into what they do makes sense. The xenomorph makes sense as marriage between human and parasite. But when the goo does both of these, as well as pull the Engineer apart at a molecular level and kill him, and change humans who fall face first into demon monsters... it's weird.
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Don't forget the exploding heads.
 
DECK'ARD said:
Humour me, it's better than trying to negate people's posts.
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If you imply towards me, I only try to open the plot to myself with others in here. I want to understand everything about the movie.

Wilbury said:
I thought that was just the same as what happens to the Engineer at the start, but with the added strain of reviving him.
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More like the added strain of 40 VOLTS IN YOUR BRAIN!
 
zoukka said:
If you imply towards me, I only try to open the plot to myself with others in here. I want to understand everything about the movie.
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Which is what we all do.

Some of us are just more troubled by events of the film in trying to do so.
 
zoukka said:
Damn, that's an interesting idea, but they indeed cut that from the movie.
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From the quotes that Scott has given i'm going to assume that he's not going to ignore Aliens (or even Alien 3) but just the AVP tripe.

I've always preferred the idea of the prey being turned into Eggs than the Queen idea. It went along with Cameron's idea of just turning them into Bugs.

If people are saying the proto xeno at the end had something like an egg sack then fair enough but i like the original version better.

Another question i asked was am i right in thinking that the bugs/maggots that were on the floor in the ampule room are what were mutated into the Xeno Cobra things? They didn't seem to serve any purpose other than kill off Milburn and show off another effect of the goo.
 
JonnyBrad said:
From the quotes that Scott has given i'm going to assume that he's not going to ignore Aliens (or even Alien 3) but just the AVP tripe.

I've always preferred the idea of the prey being turned into Eggs than the Queen idea. It went along with Cameron's idea of just turning them into Bugs.

If people are saying the proto xeno at the end had something like an egg sack then fair enough but i like the original version better.

Another question i asked was am i right in thinking that the bugs/maggots that were on the floor in the ampule room are what were mutated into the Xeno Cobra things? They didn't seem to serve any purpose other than kill off Milburn and show off another effect of the goo.
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What do you mean the prey turned into eggs? Like the cocoons in Aliens?

And yeah, the worms turned into the eels
 
Wilbury said:
What do you mean the prey turned into eggs? Like the cocoons in Aliens?

And yeah, the worms turned into the eels
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Its a cut scene in Alien. Ripley see's Dallas and Brett being transformed into Egg's. Which was the original sequence of the Aliens life cycle (its in Giger's paintings) The scene was cut for pacing but its in the directors cut. It was not cut for it being a bad idea and i prefer it to the queen idea.

Here's the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS5MtzrW1vU
 
JonnyBrad said:
Its a cut scene in Alien. Ripley see's Dallas and Brett being transformed into Egg's. Which was the original sequence of the Aliens life cycle (its in Giger's paintings) The scene was cut for pacing but its in the directors cut. It was not cut for it being a bad idea and i prefer it to the queen idea.

Here's the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS5MtzrW1vU
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Ah right, cheers. I like the idea of the Queen to be honest, I like the bigger threat compared to just oodles of soldier Xenos
 
Wilbury said:
What do you mean the prey turned into eggs? Like the cocoons in Aliens?

And yeah, the worms turned into the eels
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For some reason. I can only assume they would have exploded or something eventually. As I understand it, if those two eels mated they would have created some sort of weird eel face hugger, so Xenomorph could have been produced in the past that way?

Which is more likely? Eel sex or Engineer sex?
 
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