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[DECK'ARD]

Too much focus on the "they want to wipe us out" storyline. The film itself I feel contradicts every theory I've heard.

Why create us, leave a map for us to go to some planets only for us to find a military base? Absolutely no point if they were just trying to harvest us or whatever.

Why does that base have ships that want to travel to earth approximately 2000 years ago? Why are they breeding what look like WMDs?

I bet it's just a haphazard mish mash of storylines that are trying to be clever but just don't quite fit together as masterfully as we want and in a way that's what keeps us talking about it for so long. Pisses me off tbh.

The only one that fits unfortunately is the original premise of revenge for crucifying Space Jesus, which is enough to render the whole film absurd for me.

They should never have stumbled into the area of the origin of man. It just unnecessarily complicated an already hard to swallow and unoriginal Ancient Aliens angle. The themes in the film, God vs. its creation, religion vs. science, done in the most literal and hamfisted ways possible. Shrouded in mystery purely to hide the gaping holes in it and the leaps of logic required to maintain it. Alluding to a depth that really isn't there.

That need for mystery to hide the weaknesses in the story extending to everything else in the film, from the way characters behave to the lack of clarity in their motives. It's basically all thrown back on the audience to fill in the gaps to their satisfaction because the story that they are attempting to tell isn't a satisfying one in the first place.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Maybe its been answered, but what did David say to the engineer?

 

[Count Dookkake]

LV 223

Leviticus 22:3

"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD."

 

[DECK'ARD]

Maybe its been answered, but what did David say to the engineer?

"Sorry about Jesus LOL"

 

[DrForester]

I still don't really buy the goo being a weapon and LV-223 being a military base idea, myself. Just seems to run counter to the opening scene and the supposed contact they had with humans up until 2000 years prior to the movie. It really feels the "Played God, it backfired" plot is the one that makes the most sense especially when you consider the stupid shit David, as it's basically the same thing but done in regards to humans. Engineers create humans, they become their downfall on LV-223. Humans create David and he becomes their downfall on the planet as well.

A research facility, to me, seems to be the most likely scenario. They used it to seed life and see what it does, their creations turn on them and kill them in a way they didn't expect.

Also have to factor in that the Engineers returned many times apparently, resulting in all the cave paintings. If they just planted humans for testing, why revisit the planet? Why leave a map?

 

[Zoramon089]

My wtf moments:

Shaw's just had some weird ass alien baby pulled from her stomach and yet no one's surprised or even questions her about her new staples on her belly.

Who would have seen her without clothes before? Not to mention the only people she saw before suiting up were all the people helping Wayland and they didn't care

Out of the blue the captain who "just flies the ship" come right out and explains to Shaw that they're dealing with a bioweapon.

You saw him throughout the movie looking at the hologram and what was being mapped. It wasn't out of the blue really...

David runs around pressing alien buttons, opening doors, and collecting alien samples and not a single human sees fit to question him.

Except for the multiple times they asked what he was doing and told him not to touch things...

 

[Erigu]

The only one that fits unfortunately is the original premise of revenge for crucifying Space Jesus, which is enough to render the whole film absurd for me.

They should never have stumbled into the area of the origin of man. It just unnecessarily complicated an already hard to swallow and unoriginal Ancient Aliens angle. The themes in the film, God vs. its creation, religion vs. science, done in the most literal and hamfisted ways possible. Shrouded in mystery purely to hide the gaping holes in it and the leaps of logic required to maintain it. Alluding to a depth that really isn't there.

That need for mystery to hide the weaknesses in the story extending to everything else in the film, from the way characters behave to the lack of clarity in their motives. It's basically all thrown back on the audience to fill in the gaps to their satisfaction because the story that they are attempting to tell isn't a satisfying one in the first place.

That sums it up quite well.

 

[Trigger]

Maybe its been answered, but what did David say to the engineer?

Exactly what Weylan wanted him to say? I don't see why it would be anything else.

 

[maomaoIYP]

Who would have seen her without clothes before? Not to mention the only people she saw before suiting up were all the people helping Wayland and they didn't care

Vickers didn't seem too concerned to find an alien baby in the medical unit that was in her room? Also it's pretty hard not to care when someone is walking around naked completely covered in blood.

You saw him throughout the movie looking at the hologram and what was being mapped. It wasn't out of the blue really...

Mapping the chambers doesn't really let him in on the whole bioweapon thing, besides he hardly seems the expert on that sort of thing.

Except for the multiple times they asked what he was doing and told him not to touch things...

He took a whole tub of shit back! How could that go unnoticed? Every time he opens some door I'm wonder how is he doing that, what do those markings on the doors say, etc but none of the crew asks!

 

[Ether_Snake]

LV 223

Leviticus 22:3

"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD."

For real??


Wow. That is NOT a coincidence. That pretty much spells out that the temple is a meeting point for mankind, where they were invited. The "jockeys" who came back there, now being unclean (fallen angels), got FUCKED and killed. When humans show up, they get fucked up too.

 

[Zoramon089]

He took a whole tub of shit back! How could that go unnoticed? Every time he opens some door I'm wonder how is he doing that, what do those markings on the doors say, etc but none of the crew asks!

He took it back in secret when no one was looking! And hides it in some medical cabinet. And IIRC, it was when they were rushing back because of the storm so I doubt anyone was paying too much attention to what was in the bags and stuff. And throughout the whole movie the humans question David's "humanity". They assume he isn't curious. Has no ambitions or anything like that so they have no reason to suspect him of such. Also the entire point of bringing David along was for him to decipher the alien language. That's why he watched tons of films while they slept and he commented on studying all the modern languages down to their roots and stuff

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

The only one that fits unfortunately is the original premise of revenge for crucifying Space Jesus, which is enough to render the whole film absurd for me.

They should never have stumbled into the area of the origin of man. It just unnecessarily complicated an already hard to swallow and unoriginal Ancient Aliens angle. The themes in the film, God vs. its creation, religion vs. science, done in the most literal and hamfisted ways possible. Shrouded in mystery purely to hide the gaping holes in it and the leaps of logic required to maintain it. Alluding to a depth that really isn't there.

That need for mystery to hide the weaknesses in the story extending to everything else in the film, from the way characters behave to the lack of clarity in their motives. It's basically all thrown back on the audience to fill in the gaps to their satisfaction because the story that they are attempting to tell isn't a satisfying one in the first place.

Yes yes yes. I was in the middle of explaining the same thing.

The interview excerpts with Lindelof betray his fundamental misunderstanding of ambiguity in stories (he also throws Scott under the bus, which isn't very nice). The backstory in ALIEN is ambiguous because the details aren't important. All that needs to be implied is "this is very old and something went horribly wrong". Anything more specific would be arbitrary and reductive, so it's actually better to let the audience's imagination fill it in.

But PROMETHEUS is entirely about those "unimportant details". Maybe you shouldn't make a movie about that in the first place, if you have nothing more important to say. But since you are making this movie, you'd better be really specific about the details, because without them you just have a vague and incoherent movie that isn't really about anything at all.

 

[Count Dookkake]

For real??

Wow. That is NOT a coincidence. That pretty much spells out that the temple is a meeting point for mankind, where they were invited. The "jockeys" who came back there, now being unclean (fallen angels), got FUCKED and killed. When humans show up, they get fucked up too.

Yeah, I am pretty much the best at watching movies.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yeah, I am pretty much the best at watching movies.

So

Leveticus: 4:26

Then he must burn all the goat's fat on the altar, just as he does with the peace offering. Through this process, the priest will purify the leader from his sin, making him right with the LORD, and he will be forgiven.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Different film, which does not have a religious subtext, by a different filmmaker, who is an atheist, so I wouldn't read into that too much. It's possible, but unlikely.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED6Vo1_fzq4#t=2m21

 

[Scarecrow]

On a positive note, I liked how the Geologist and Biologist dudes kinda became friends after a hostile start.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Out of the blue the captain who "just flies the ship" come right out and explains to Shaw that they're dealing with a bioweapon.

I agree with your other two, but I was fine with this. The captain is seen watching everything that happens inside the facility and studying the map of the place late into the night. He also was the only living member of the crew to see the Engineers piled up against the door, and consider the implications of that.

He put the pieces together and had the information and time to do so, and I felt the film showed him doing that.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Different film, which does not have a religious subtext, by a different filmmaker, who is an atheist, so I wouldn't read into that too much. It's possible, but unlikely.

Yeah I know but Scott might think it works: in Aliens, humans are punished for trying to terraform the planet, they are not supposed to be there, hence they are to be wiped out from that planet to fix things.

 

[Messypandas]

So do we think Jesus was an engineer who came to earth and did some shit and then the engineers want to kills us because we crucified him?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Yeah I know but Scott might think it works: in Aliens, humans are punished for trying to terraform the planet, they are not supposed to be there, hence they are to be wiped out from that planet to fix things.

Ah, I see.

Scott may have noticed the planet name in ALIENS and been reminded of Leviticus.

 

[JB1981]

So do we think Jesus was an engineer who came to earth and did some shit and then the engineers want to kills us because we crucified him?

Might have something to do with us killing a God and not an Engineer exactly. I fear this might actually be the reason why and if that is the case that is fucking terrible.

I still don't understand how the 2,000 years ago thing relates to humans on planet Earth. How do we even know the Engineers were headed to Earth 2,000 years ago? All the crew of Prometheus did was carbon date the headless Engineer. I don't recall them ever talking about what the Engies destination was all that time ago.

 

[DECK'ARD]

So do we think Jesus was an engineer who came to earth and did some shit and then the engineers want to kills us because we crucified him?

You got it!

At least we know how the resurrection happened now, a vase of magic black goo had leaked in the cave. He probably used it for his miracles as well!

"You want some more loaves and fishes? I got that covered!"

And his ascension into the sky was a spaceship coming to pick him up, but boy was he PISSED that has intergalactic teaching placement had taken such an unpleasant turn.

"I did all that for them and they nailed me to a cross! Bomb the shit out of those fuckers!"

What storytelling, what imagination, what a load of bollocks.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I still don't understand how the 2,000 years ago thing relates to humans on planet Earth. How do we even know they were headed to Earth 2,000 years ago? All they did was carbon date the headless Engineer. I don't recall them ever talking about what their destination was all that time ago.

David found the hologram map in the Engineer ship and learned flute.

David knows.

David knows.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

No, I'm talking about them leaving the star map in past civilizations. It makes no sense.

Its very possible that when the starmap was left they had very different plans for the facilities on that planet OR they were showing them what they came from OR they were warning them about what will come to destroy them. Its hard to say if they made humans to be destroyed/harvested, if they changed their mind after making us, if we were an accident or if we were an act of rebellion by other Engineers who sought to spread life. While it is a mystery of why the starmap was left, I don't find it hard to believe or understand at all. There are and were bigger things at play and we only got to see smaller pieces of the puzzle.

So in the discussion section at this link

http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/1646

one of the forum posters links the first "leaked info" on the initial teaser trailer for Prometheus.

Thats pretty crazy how spot on it is with the concept art, they must have had a way different cut of the film at one time. I really hope Ridley Scott puts some serious though into a directors cut and makes it happen.

 

[Trigger]

So do we think Jesus was an engineer who came to earth and did some shit and then the engineers want to kills us because we crucified him?

I prefer to think that Jesus wasn't an Engineer because you'd think him being a large white alien would be a notable thing for the Bible to describe. It's probably our actions/ideals that caused the change in perspective for the Engineers.

 

[Messypandas]

You got it!

At least we know how the resurrection happened now, a vase of magic black goo had leaked in the cave. He probably used it for his miracles as well!

"You want some more loaves and fishes? I got that covered!"

And his ascension into the sky was a spaceship coming to pick him up, but boy was he PISSED that has intergalactic teaching placement had taken such an unpleasant turn.

"I did all that for them and they nailed me to a cross! Bomb the shit out of those fuckers!"

What storytelling, what imagination, what a load of bollocks.

Right, and that light in the sky the three wise men followed? Spaceship baby... And the immaculate birth? Xenomorph

 

[DECK'ARD]

I prefer to think that Jesus wasn't an Engineer because you'd think him being a large white alien would be a notable thing for the Bible to describe. It's probably our actions/ideals that caused the change in perspective for the Engineers.

But the miracles!

We now know what a miraculous plot-device the magic black goo is, it makes sense the Bible and Jesus used it as well.

 

[Trigger]

But the miracles!

We now know what a miraculous plot-device the magic black goo is, it makes sense the Bible and Jesus used it as well.

But then our crucifixes are all wrong! Mine doesn't have large rubber white guy on it, and I think the Book of Black Goo is missing from the Bible.

 

[DECK'ARD]

But then our crucifixes are all wrong! Mine doesn't have large rubber white guy on it, and I think the Book of Black Goo is missing from the Bible.

Tom Hanks will find it in the sequel, The Prometheus Code.

 

[Shogmaster]

Sorry to be raining on parade, but doesn't this movie take place something like 2100 AD? So 2000 years prior is long after Jesus, no?

 

[Tookay]

Yes yes yes. I was in the middle of explaining the same thing.

The interview excerpts with Lindelof betray his fundamental misunderstanding of ambiguity in stories (he also throws Scott under the bus, which isn't very nice). The backstory in ALIEN is ambiguous because the details aren't important. All that needs to be implied is "this is very old and something went horribly wrong". Anything more specific would be arbitrary and reductive, so it's actually better to let the audience's imagination fill it in.

But PROMETHEUS is entirely about those "unimportant details". Maybe you shouldn't make a movie about that in the first place, if you have nothing more important to say. But since you are making this movie, you'd better be really specific about the details, because without them you just have a vague and incoherent movie that isn't really about anything at all.

Well said.

This movie spent 2.5 hours acting like it was going to say something only to babble.

There is an illusion of depth in Prometheus, but that's only because it poses questions whose answers are all equally valid because the writers never give the audience anything to work with in the first place.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Sorry to be raining on parade, but doesn't this movie take place something like 2100 AD? So 2000 years prior is long after Jesus, no?

It was 'about 2000 years ago' as far as I remember, and Ridley has already said that was the original premise but 'too nail on head' (yes, completely absurd Ridley).

The hangovers from that premise are littered throughout the film, and despite all the wild speculation it's still the only one that fits with everything presented in the film. No amount of jumbled story telling and unclear motives can hide the core of the story is completely ridiculous and shames even Ancient Aliens.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Sorry to be raining on parade, but doesn't this movie take place something like 2100 AD? So 2000 years prior is long after Jesus, no?

Around 2000 years prior to 2094 (year at the end) is only really 60ish years after Space Jesus was crucified.

Takes a while to find all dat Black Goo™, give them a break.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Sorry to be raining on parade, but doesn't this movie take place something like 2100 AD? So 2000 years prior is long after Jesus, no?

I believe the line was, "2,000 years, give or take."

 

[Canuck76]

I prefer to think that Jesus wasn't an Engineer because you'd think him being a large white alien would be a notable thing for the Bible to describe. It's probably our actions/ideals that caused the change in perspective for the Engineers.

Yeah.....

Jesus spent a lot of time with different peeps and you know. Things probably would have been written about his black eyes or pasty white skin.

I'm glad Ridley didn't do that because it seems kind of dumb.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yeah.....

Jesus spent a lot of time with different peeps and you know. Things probably would have been written about his black eyes or pasty white skin.

I'm glad Ridley didn't do that because it seems kind of dumb.

They had long enough to adjust the story once Space Jesus had buggered off in his spaceship and not come back.

Clears up why Jesus is portrayed as Caucasian though!

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Clears up why Jesus is portrayed as Caucasian though!

Awwwwwwwww snap, now we gettin to the bottom of things.

 

[Stinkles]

You got it!

At least we know how the resurrection happened now, a vase of magic black goo had leaked in the cave. He probably used it for his miracles as well!

"You want some more loaves and fishes? I got that covered!"

And his ascension into the sky was a spaceship coming to pick him up, but boy was he PISSED that has intergalactic teaching placement had taken such an unpleasant turn.

"I did all that for them and they nailed me to a cross! Bomb the shit out of those fuckers!"

What storytelling, what imagination, what a load of bollocks.

you'd think the Romans would have noticed a ripped 12 foot albino Jew leader.

 

[Dresden]

I prefer to think that Jesus wasn't an Engineer because you'd think him being a large white alien would be a notable thing for the Bible to describe. It's probably our actions/ideals that caused the change in perspective for the Engineers.

He's clearly Quetzacoatl.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

LV 223

Leviticus 22:3

"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD."

Whoa.

Well, if the Engineer is the LORD, he's kind of a dick.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Whoa.

Well, if the Engineer is the LORD, he's kind of a dick.

Xenomorphs are the lord, I think.

 

[Sleepy]

Xenomorphs are the lord, I think.

Nah. They are the plague.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Nah. They are the plague.

Scott said the jockeys are fallen angels and having "all the fun" (creating life, teaching them stuff, etc.), and that paradise must therefore be very different and disturbing, implying that paradise = fucked up place that would scare the shit out of us and that we would not be comfortable being in, unless to be in a position that is the opposite of the fallen angels (in submission).

Sounds like Xenomorphs-Eden to me.

If the LV-223 Bible thing is true, it implies that even the space jockeys were considered unclean when they came back to the temple (cause they gave knowledge to mankind, etc.), and got fucked/punished by the Xenomorphs.

Jockey was going to kill humans to fix things, to redeem himself to God.

Prometheus/Alien 1:
Leviticus 22:3

"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD."

So in Prometheus/Alien 1, we see what happens to the unclean. They get punished/killed by God. At the end of Prometheus, the one that wakes up goes back to Earth to undo their "sin", but is killed.

Aliens:
Leveticus 4:26

Then he must burn all the goat's fat on the altar, just as he does with the peace offering. Through this process, the priest will purify the leader from his sin, making him right with the LORD, and he will be forgiven.

Here we see why the terraformed Planet in Aliens was full of Xenomorphs: Some other space jockeys are "making a peace offering", to "purify themselves from their sins" to "make themselves right with the LORD and be forgiven".

Maybe yeah the Xenomorphs are just a plague, but whatever the case, paradise is probably very different than what we would expect. The Space Jockeys sinned by giving mankind knowledge and such, so what is a "faithful" Space Jockey then, what kind of God are they submitting to? We'll find out in Prometheus 2 I guess.

 

[bggrthnjsus]

oh man all these biblical references are making me like this movie even more

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Scott said the jockeys are fallen angels and having "all the fun" (creating life, teaching them stuff, etc.), and that paradise must therefore be very different and disturbing, implying that paradise = fucked up place that would scare the shit out of us and that we would not be comfortable being in, unless to be in a position that is the opposite of the fallen angels (in submission).

Sounds like Xenomorphs-Eden to me.

If the LV-223 Bible thing is true, it implies that even the space jockeys were considered unclean when they came back to the temple (cause they gave knowledge to mankind, etc.), and got fucked/punished by the Xenomorphs.

Jockey was going to kill humans to fix things, to redeem himself to God.

I hope Prometheus 2/Paradise has Shaw and David make it to the Engineer home world to discover just how horrific a place it is.

Though I wonder if there would be another space crew that would meet up with them on the way.

 

[Sleepy]

Sounds like Xenomorphs-Eden to me.

They seem more like divine retribution, but whatever.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yeah, I added that. Copying for new page:

Nah. They are the plague.

Scott said the jockeys are fallen angels and having "all the fun" (creating life, teaching them stuff, etc.), and that paradise must therefore be very different and disturbing, implying that paradise = fucked up place that would scare the shit out of us and that we would not be comfortable being in, unless to be in a position that is the opposite of the fallen angels (in submission).

Sounds like Xenomorphs-Eden to me.

If the LV-223 Bible thing is true, it implies that even the space jockeys were considered unclean when they came back to the temple (cause they gave knowledge to mankind, etc.), and got fucked/punished by the Xenomorphs.

Jockey was going to kill humans to fix things, to redeem himself to God.

Prometheus/Alien 1:
Leviticus 22:3

"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD."

So in Prometheus/Alien 1, we see what happens to the unclean. They get punished/killed by God. At the end of Prometheus, the one that wakes up goes back to Earth to undo their "sin", but is killed.

Aliens:
Leveticus 4:26

Then he must burn all the goat's fat on the altar, just as he does with the peace offering. Through this process, the priest will purify the leader from his sin, making him right with the LORD, and he will be forgiven.

Here we see why the terraformed Planet in Aliens was full of Xenomorphs: Some other space jockeys are "making a peace offering", to "purify themselves from their sins" to "make themselves right with the LORD and be forgiven".

Maybe yeah the Xenomorphs are just a plague, but whatever the case, paradise is probably very different than what we would expect. The Space Jockeys sinned by giving mankind knowledge and such, were punished, so what is a "faithful" Space Jockey then, what kind of God are they submitting to? We'll find out in Prometheus 2 I guess.

 

[watershed]

I think I read somewhere that a "leaked" or possibly fake script/treatment had the giant head actually speak at some point. Did anyone read the same thing? I kind of expected the giant head to have some importance in the movie, like maybe recount some history or something, given how prominently it was features in the promo material.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Didn't appreciate the incredibly shallow creationism/darwinism commentary. People in the audience actually groaned one or two of those painfully cheesy scenes. "I choose to believe" sigh.