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[Ether_Snake]

I tend to think David was testing the goo for healing properties, or eliminating Holloway because he felt he was a threat to the actual mission. He may have known more than he let on from the start.

Motherfuck. That actually...makes sense

It would only have made sense, if it was Holloway who was sterile!

Fuck, that should have been it. It would have been way more awesome if it was Holloway who was sterile, and suddenly Shaw is pregnant after sex. It would have indicated some sort of healing property to the goo, hence something Weyland might want.

 

[harriet the spy]

I also read David testing the black goo as him investigating a potential source of healing for Weyland. His entire purpose was essentially to serve Weyland, so that's what immediately how i interpreted the move.

This being said, is there any consensus about why the black goo has completely different properties depending on who uses it? I would have been fine with it being a generic mutagenic agent meant as a WMD (in which case all of its uses in the movie were mostly 'on topic') except for the fact that it's also used to create human life. That didn't many any sense. Also, it really didn't feel obvious that Dave would 'guess' they were bringing the black goo to kill everyone on earth. And if he did guess that, why did he even try to talk to the murderous engineer? What did he expect? "We tried to eradicate you, but I am cool with you. Here's the secret to eternal life". Finally, the xenomorph mural. What/Que?

Slightly off topic: I saw many people saying it was one of the worst movies they have seen and scoffing at the idea this was a good movie.

I enjoyed the movie, mostly because some scenes were decently tense and the movie itself was very beautiful; this is in spite of the total mess of a script.

Now, though, I love sci-fi, but I have come to accept that most sci-fi is utter trash. So, GAF, it seems you know good sci-fi movies - any non-space-opera recommendations (sorry for being off-topic)?
(to give some reference points: i have seen Alien(s), event horizon, sunshine. Disliked Avatar and fifth element.)

 

[remz]

It does makes sense but it wasn't explained, drawing your own conclusions is bad writing. The conversation between David and Holloway was one of the better scenes of the movie. I thought David did it because he could. Kind of like Ash and Burke from earlier Alien films.

ash did what he did because the company told him too. I don't remember Burke doing anything weird "because he could?"

 

[commedieu]

ash did what he did because the company told him too. I don't remember Burke doing anything weird "because he could?"

The argument could be that burke was panicked and did whatever he could do that would bring a specimen back, as his character was developed to be a scumbag.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I also read David testing the black goo as him investigating a potential source of healing for Weyland. His entire purpose was essentially to serve Weyland, so that's what immediately how i interpreted the move.

This being said, is there any consensus about why the black goo has completely different properties depending on who uses it? I would have been fine with it being a generic mutagenic agent meant as a WMD (in which case all of its uses in the movie were mostly 'on topic') except for the fact that it's also used to create human life. That didn't many any sense. Also, it really didn't feel obvious that Dave would 'guess' they were bringing the black goo to kill everyone on earth. And if he did guess that, why did he even try to talk to the murderous engineer? What did he expect? "We tried to eradicate you, but I am cool with you. Here's the secret to eternal life". Finally, the xenomorph mural. What/Que?

Slightly off topic: I saw many people saying it was one of the worst movies they have seen and scoffing at the idea this was a good movie.

I enjoyed the movie, mostly because some scenes were decently tense and the movie itself was very beautiful; this is in spite of the total mess of a script.

Now, though, I love sci-fi, but I have come to accept that most sci-fi is utter trash. So, GAF, it seems you know good sci-fi movies - any non-space-opera recommendations (sorry for being off-topic)?
(to give some reference points: i have seen Alien(s), event horizon, sunshine. Hated Avatar and fifth element.)

Check out Solaris. If you don't mind slower, psychological drama sci-fi, that shit is stellar.

 

[Fantomex]

Metropolis, the 3rd Man, The Seventh Seal all made you draw your own conclusions. I don't think some of you are using that phrase in correct context.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I really hope the second or third movie doesn't end with a face-hugger impregnating David who is piloting the alien ship from Alien 1, and that "this was the beginning of the Xenomorphs as we know them" or some shit like that, a cross between an android and a Xenomorph.

Please don't be that cheap

edit: I know the jockey is much bigger, but you never know......

 

[linkboy]

I really hope the second or third movie doesn't end with a face-hugger impregnating David who is piloting the alien ship from Alien 1, and that "this was the beginning of the Xenomorphs as we know them" or some shit like that, a cross between an android and a Xenomorph.

Please don't be that cheap

edit: I know the jockey is much bigger, but you never know......

Would probably explain the mechanical look the Xenomorph had in Alien.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Now, though, I love sci-fi, but I have come to accept that most sci-fi is utter trash. So, GAF, it seems you know good sci-fi movies - any non-space-opera recommendations (sorry for being off-topic)?
(to give some reference points: i have seen Alien(s), event horizon, sunshine. Hated Avatar and fifth element.)

2001: A Space Odyssey, Solaris (1972) (both of those are very slow but oh so good), The Thing (1982), Contact, E.T., Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951), Moon, Gattaca, Blade Runner, District 9, Children of Men, Serenity (+ Firefly series), Starship Troopers, Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Dark City, The Matrix, Primer, The Fountain, Metropolis (1927), Total Recall, Pitch Black, 12 Monkeys, Brazil...........


There's more

 

[Vyer]

I think David had a lot more malice in his intentions that a lot of people it seems. It's pretty clear that he was not amused by Halloway's references to his lack of humanity, and that Weyland's remark about not having a soul got a reaction from him. I got the impression he was utterly disenchanted with the humans who 'made' him and considered himself above them....enough so that meeting the beings that actually were 'above them' was his primary goal.

IIRC there was even some comment toward the end as they are going to awaken the Engineer that someone made to him about keeping Weyland safe was his top priority. I don't remember what he said right now, but it clearly didn't sound like it was.

 

[pj]

I haven't read the whole thread, but what's the word on Charlize being wrinkle face's daughter? Was that supposed to add anything to the movie?

And of all the other things that don't make sense in this movie, the biggest to me is that the engineers gave humans a map to their weapons research facility. Why not their home planet? Why not an uninhabited planet with a web cam? Why in the world would they lead us to their Tooele Army Depot?

 

[Sickboy007]

I think David had a lot more malice in his intentions that a lot of people it seems. It's pretty clear that he was not amused by Halloway's references to his lack of humanity, and that Weyland's remark about not having a soul got a reaction from him. I got the impression he was utterly disenchanted with the humans who 'made' him and considered himself above them....enough so that meeting the beings that actually were 'above them' was his primary goal.

IIRC there was even some comment toward the end as they are going to awaken the Engineer that someone made to him about keeping Weyland safe was his top priority. I don't remember what he said right now, but it clearly didn't sound like it was.

"Doesn't every child want to kill their parents?" or something to that effect. I liked his relationship with Shaw, he seemed really fascinated by her, keeping her cross and commenting on her survival instincts.

 

[CrocMother]

Charlize Theron's character could have been taken out of the script with almost zero consequence. The scene where she is talking to Weyland "...FATHER." blech.

She wasn't the captain, she wasn't in charge, she was just there. A "badass" female character existing for the sake of a "badass" female character. Badass is in quotes because the movie just tries too hard. oooohhhh she's doing pushups!

Take out all her scenes and the movie is better IMO.

 

[Spectral Glider]

I haven't read the whole thread, but what's the word on Charlize being wrinkle face's daughter? Was that supposed to add anything to the movie?

I think they thought it was going to be some major shocker....but her character was so paper thin and pointless that nobody cared. Plus, you could see it coming from a mile away anyway.

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

ash did what he did because the company told him too. I don't remember Burke doing anything weird "because he could?"

I'm just trying to state that these films have a pattern when it comes to betrayal and motivations like programming and greed.

 

[chicko1983]

It does makes sense but it wasn't explained, drawing your own conclusions is bad writing. The conversation between David and Holloway was one of the better scenes of the movie. I thought David did it because he could. Kind of like Ash and Burke from earlier Alien films.

It sort of makes sense that David was only testing for a reaction and not because he knew it was going to harm Holloway.

Doesnt he ask just before he gives him the drink "how far would you go to get the answers you want?"

He was just asking Holloway for some positive affirmation before he gave him the drink to make sure he was doing the right thing by Weyland.

 

[chicko1983]

Charlize Theron's character could have been taken out of the script with almost zero consequence. The scene where she is talking to Weyland "...FATHER." blech.

She wasn't the captain, she wasn't in charge, she was just there. A "badass" female character existing for the sake of a "badass" female character. Badass is in quotes because the movie just tries too hard. oooohhhh she's doing pushups!

Take out all her scenes and the movie is better IMO.

I think I read earlier on in this thread that Theron was going to be given the lead part but couldnt because of contractual issues.

Her character felt written in to the script after an initial draft just to have Theron in the film.

 

[rozay]

And of all the other things that don't make sense in this movie, the biggest to me is that the engineers gave humans a map to their weapons research facility. Why not their home planet? Why not an uninhabited planet with a web cam? Why in the world would they lead us to their Tooele Army Depot?

Anyone have any idea about this?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Is it me or is the new viral video of young Weyland released implying he is preparing either for a talk or a meeting?

What did he say? I can't understand. Something like "I am the last of my kind" and "I'm going for a walk"?

I got the feeling that if we had found out that Weyland and David knew what they were going to look for on the moon base, it would explain wtf David is doing and why he is seemingly careless: he is not careless, he knows what he is manipulating.

So I theorized a few days ago that Weyland might have either entered in contact with an alien way before the movie itself, which may have "shaped" his intentions, his life-goals.

You know what I think the hologram showed at the end of the movie? The engineer sent a communication to Earth, 2000 years ago or so, or whenever it was that he went to sleep.

We see them come in the room, they all go in their beds, except one who sits in the chair and uses the flute. A flute is a musical instrument (communication). In the artbook, it says that deck is a control deck, while the dentist-chair-thing in the middle is the PILOTING chair. So that engineer did not "dial the coordinates to Earth". He sent a communication TO Earth, and then headed into his sleeping pod, waiting.

This explains why we thought it was weird, or a plot hole, that the engineers are seen seemingly leaving for Earth, but when the humans arrive the guy is sleeping and it looks like the ship never even tried to leave.

It didn't try to leave, it sent a message to Earth, and waited for mankind to come.

Mankind came, and woke the engineer up. Why the engineer wanted that? Mystery.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Love the whole "Jesus being the engineer we killed and them killing us In return" theory.

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

I haven't read the whole thread, but what's the word on Charlize being wrinkle face's daughter? Was that supposed to add anything to the movie?

Some of her scenes were cut she mentioned in an interview.

I think we may have missed some context with her dialogue.

 

[Spectral Glider]

I think I read earlier on in this thread that Theron was going to be given the lead part but couldnt because of contractual issues.

Her character felt written in to the script after an initial draft just to have Theron in the film.

Makes sense because that's exactly what it felt like. And when they realized the character was dead weight, they cooked up the Weyland's daughter bit to try and spice it up.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Love the whole "Jesus being the engineer we killed and them killing us In return" theory.

Scott said he threw that away, was too on-the-nose.

 

[planar1280]

its blatantly obvious R Scott cut 5 minutes in the beginning around the qoute "They want us to find them" in the cave. I am pretty sure I have seen footage of a lot more happening in that area.

 

[harriet the spy]

2001: A Space Odyssey, Solaris (1972) (both of those are very slow but oh so good), The Thing (1982), Contact, E.T., Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951), Moon, Gattaca, Blade Runner, District 9, Children of Men, Serenity (+ Firefly series), Starship Troopers, Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Dark City, The Matrix, Primer, The Fountain, Metropolis (1927), Total Recall, Pitch Black, 12 Monkeys, Brazil...........


There's more

Thank you. Have seen most of these sadly, but a few i never got around to watching (close encounter, solaris, the old version of day the earth stood still, and moon)

 

[Dead]

Yeah I felt the transition from the dig to all of a sudden being in space was way too fast/rushed

 

[way more]

its blatantly obvious R Scott cut 5 minutes in the beginning around the qoute "They want us to find them" in the cave. I am pretty sure I have seen footage of a lot more happening in that area.

Do they get down and fuck under the cave paintings?


Edit: I read that as they "cut it for an R"

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Thank you. Have seen most of these sadly, but a few i never got around to watching (close encounter, solaris, the old version of day the earth stood still, and moon)

There's lots more, but I just chose the go to stuff from the Blu-ray/DVD shelf. Legitimately great sci-fi isn't easy to come by though so I feel your pain. There comes a point where you've watched most of the really revolutionary, influential, and/or high quality stuff, and your next 5-10 sci-fi movies will just be searching for that feeling again.

 

[chicko1983]

Is it me or is the new viral video of young Weyland released implying he is preparing either for a talk or a meeting?

What did he say? I can't understand. Something like "I am the last of my kind" and "I'm going for a walk"?

I got the feeling that if we had found out that Weyland and David knew what they were going to look for on the moon base, it would explain wtf David is doing and why he is seemingly careless: he is not careless, he knows what he is manipulating.

So I theorized a few days ago that Weyland might have either entered in contact with an alien way before the movie itself, which may have "shaped" his intentions, his life-goals.

You know what I think the hologram showed at the end of the movie? The engineer sent a communication to Earth, 2000 years ago or so, or whenever it was that he went to sleep.

We see them come in the room, they all go in their beds, except one who sits in the chair and uses the flute. A flute is a musical instrument (communication). In the artbook, it says that deck is a control deck, while the dentist-chair-thing in the middle is the PILOTING chair. So that engineer did not "dial the coordinates to Earth". He sent a communication TO Earth, and then headed into his sleeping pod, waiting.

This explains why we thought it was weird, or a plot hole, that the engineers are seen seemingly leaving for Earth, but when the humans arrive the guy is sleeping and it looks like the ship never even tried to leave.

It didn't try to leave, it sent a message to Earth, and waited for mankind to come.

Mankind came, and woke the engineer up. Why the engineer wanted that? Mystery.

would be good if the next movie is a prequel to prometheus with a young weyland intertwined with an event that happened 2000 years ago.

This could be a novel approach to sequels / prequels - all subsequent movies set in earlier times.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Anyone can confirm what Weyland says in the viral clip?

 

[Branduil]

Yeah I felt the transition from the dig to all of a sudden being in space was way too fast/rushed

A lot of things felt rushed.

 

[mattiewheels]

One thing that took me out of that last scene, other than it feeling incredibly tacked on and heavy-handed, was the feeling that xenomorphs shouldn't burst from hosts fully-grown, should they? Shouldnt they look like little babies? I've only seen the first movie, so don't know if there's exceptions or not.

 

[lednerg]

I never thought it would be possible, but Prometheus actually made Alien Resurrection look good.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Is it me or is the new viral video of young Weyland released implying he is preparing either for a talk or a meeting?

What did he say? I can't understand. Something like "I am the last of my kind" and "I'm going for a walk"?

I got the feeling that if we had found out that Weyland and David knew what they were going to look for on the moon base, it would explain wtf David is doing and why he is seemingly careless: he is not careless, he knows what he is manipulating.

So I theorized a few days ago that Weyland might have either entered in contact with an alien way before the movie itself, which may have "shaped" his intentions, his life-goals.

You know what I think the hologram showed at the end of the movie? The engineer sent a communication to Earth, 2000 years ago or so, or whenever it was that he went to sleep.

This explains why we thought it was weird, or a plot hole, that the engineers are seen seemingly leaving for Earth, but when the humans arrive the guy is sleeping and it looks like the ship never even tried to leave.

It didn't try to leave, it sent a message to Earth, and waited for mankind to come.

Mankind came, and woke the engineer up. Why the engineer wanted that? Mystery.

What? You are jumping to too many conclusions here. If David knew what he was doing, then he's responsible for almost everything that got the crew and himself killed. Why would he do that?

Your theory about Weyland meeting an alien is unsubstantiated.

Sent the message to who? Why? Oh that's right, nobody knows their motives. Especially monster mash at the end, he's just a generic horror monster.

Nah, I'm thinking that they didn't leave for Earth because they were all killed by McGuffin black liquid. Space jockeys could have been getting in the cryo beds in preparation for the long voyage, not waiting for humans to find them so they could kill them, haha. If that was their plan all along, then they are the stupidest aliens in the galaxy. Where's their contingency plan in all this?

 

[Trurl]

The Prometheus episode of Half in the Bag is up. I liked it more than them, but their take seems pretty reasonable.
http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-prometheus/

 

[Ether_Snake]

Space jockeys could have been getting in the cryo beds in preparation for the long voyage, not waiting for humans to find them so they could kill them, haha.

The engineer that leaves for Earth at the end sits in the piloting chair. Sleeping in a bed is not a piloting chair. In the hologram recording, no one ever steps in the piloting chair, only the command deck.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

The Prometheus episode of Half in the Bag is up. I liked it more than them, but their take seems pretty reasonable.
http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-prometheus/

I agree with them.

But I go one step further and say: Prometheus is conveniently convoluted and has religious motifs underpinning the presentation as a means to allegory so it seems deeper than it actually is.

Could have probably been a better television drama than a movie.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Trailer:

"Whatever that probe is picking up... it's reading life form."
"What do you mean a life form?!"

Movie:
WE'LL NEVER KNOW!

 

[we.are.the.armada]

The engineer that leaves for Earth at the end sits in the piloting chair. Sleeping in a bed is not a piloting chair. In the hologram recording, no one ever steps in the piloting chair, only the command deck.

You're jumping to conclusions. How do you know when that holograph was taken - David hit the plot device button, so it showed a holograph for the audience, right? How do you know that was the end of the holograph? What if the holograph got busted during the time all of the engineers were getting wiped out? What does the pilot seat have to do with anything that shown in that holograph? Hell, the holograph could have turned off as the pilot seat was ascending out of the floor at the time it was being recorded.

 

[thirty]

jesus as an engineer is a joke. the movie said the engineers build and destroy worlds. for all we know they're trying to seed the universe with "human" form to combat other alien hostiles. i think the human head statue supports this theory.

the biggest thing that bothers me about the plot is the damn cave paintings. how on earth did they get an invitation from that? were ancient people on earth visited by engineers? this makes absolutely no sense to me.

the other holes in the movie didn't bother me so much.

 

[maharg]

the biggest thing that bothers me about the plot is the damn cave paintings. how on earth did they get an invitation from that? were ancient people on earth visited by engineers? this makes absolutely no sense to me.

Yes? This isn't really a hole, it's just what happened.

 

[Ether_Snake]

You're jumping to conclusions. How do you know when that holograph was taken - David hit the plot device button, so it showed a holograph for the audience, right? How do you know that was the end of the holograph? What if the holograph got busted during the time all of the engineers were getting wiped out? What does the pilot seat have to do with anything that shown in that holograph? Hell, the holograph could have turned off as the pilot seat was ascending out of the floor at the time it was being recorded.

Hello? The pilot seat is not out of the ground when the humans arrived. It's still down.

So you are saying "Hey they came in running into the room, one of them pointed at the beds for them to go to sleep, put in the coordinates to Earth, got the pilot seat out, sat in it, then changed his mind, had the chair go back down, and went to bed and the ship never left."

 

[dilatedmuscle]

It does makes sense but it wasn't explained, drawing your own conclusions is bad writing. The conversation between David and Holloway was one of the better scenes of the movie. I thought David did it because he could. Kind of like Ash and Burke from earlier Alien films.

Exactly. This happened far too often. Sometimes leading to your own conclusions in an open ended movie is ok but not with a slew of subtle actions throughout the entire film. This whole thread is full of users making assumptions and drawing their own conclusions. That means the film failed to deliver a coherent narrative on its own merits. Even the guy with the Jesus Theory put his theory together using clues from Scott's interviews. The fact that he needed to go beyond the content of the film is ridiculous.

 

[maharg]

Exactly. This happened far too often. Sometimes leading to your own conclusions in an open ended movie is ok but not with a slew of subtle actions throughout the entire film. This whole thread is full of users making assumptions and drawing their own conclusions. That means the film failed to deliver a coherent narrative on its own merits. Even the guy with the Jesus Theory put his theory together using clues from Scott's interviews. The fact that he needed to go beyond the content of the film is ridiculous.

All this is true of 2001 as well, and that's considered a classic. Want the answers? Read the books. Otherwise, figure it out on your damn own. I'm not saying this was a classic (it wasn't), but I don't think "it makes you come to your own conclusions" is even remotely why it fails to be.

 

[Ether_Snake]

edit: sent to next page

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Hello? The pilot seat is not out of the ground when the humans arrived. It's still down.

So you are saying "Hey they came in running into the room, one of them pointed at the beds for them to go to sleep, put in the coordinates to Earth, got the pilot seat out, sat in it, then changed his mind, had the chair go back down, and went to bed and the ship never left."

They didn't run in the room. They were doing something routine. I don't know how who you think they were sending a message to. I think they were just doing a routine "power on, systems ready" deal. Besides, where are the other engineers? Of course they left the room.

See, something probably happened. The engineers go check out the emergency, except one that remains in the cryo. Yadda yada, they all die, and he's left sleeping. This is more plausible than your "all according to keikaku" deal, right?

Oh, and the pilot seat being down could have just been the last engineer out hit the "chair off" button.

 

[Ether_Snake]

jesus as an engineer is a joke. the movie said the engineers build and destroy worlds. for all we know they're trying to seed the universe with "human" form to combat other alien hostiles. i think the human head statue supports this theory.

the biggest thing that bothers me about the plot is the damn cave paintings. how on earth did they get an invitation from that? were ancient people on earth visited by engineers? this makes absolutely no sense to me.

the other holes in the movie didn't bother me so much.

Scott said the head statue is an homage to themselves, their awesomeness. That room is a tomb, with an altar (this is where one would make an offering), and murals, with ceremonially-placed vials of black goo. Scott said the engineers are fallen-angels. It's not surprising that fallen-angels would make a self-praising temple. And the altar, like Scott said the engineers' self-sacrifice sort of remind us of incans sacrificing one of theirs to improve their condition, is a self-sacrificial altar. It's basically a room where an engineer would sacrifice himself on the altar, to provide the building material to create the Xenomorphs.

The mural in front/above the altar, shows, if you look at it from bottom to top: the altar in front of it, where the sacrifice takes place, then on the mural are face-hugged humanoids in the corners, above them a xenomorph with arms spread out as if being lifted in a godly-fashion, and above him a queen-like Xenomorph.

So it shows, from the bottom (altar) to the top of the mural; the process of creation of the Xenomorph race.

 

[way more]

They didn't run in the room. They were doing something routine. I don't know how who you think they were sending a message to. I think they were just doing a routine "power on, systems ready" deal. Besides, where are the other engineers? Of course they left the room.

See, something probably happened. The engineers go check out the emergency, except one that remains in the cryo. Yadda yada, they all die, and he's left sleeping. This is more plausible than your "all according to keikaku" deal, right?

Heh, you've described a Thematic Appreciation Test.

The TAT is popularly known as the picture interpretation technique because it uses a series of provocative yet ambiguous pictures about which the subject is asked to tell a story. The subject is asked to tell as dramatic a story as they can for each picture presented, including the following:
what has led up to the event shown
what is happening at the moment
what the characters are feeling and thinking
what the outcome of the story was

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_Apperception_Test

 

[Ether_Snake]

They didn't run in the room. They were doing something routine. I don't know how who you think they were sending a message to. I think they were just doing a routine "power on, systems ready" deal. Besides, where are the other engineers? Of course they left the room.

See, something probably happened. The engineers go check out the emergency, except one that remains in the cryo. Yadda yada, they all die, and he's left sleeping. This is more plausible than your "all according to keikaku" deal, right?

Oh, and the pilot seat being down could have just been the last engineer out hit the "chair off" button.

Yes they come in the room in a hurry and their leader quickly points to the beds, and while they go down he goes in the chair to send his communication.

You are saying they put in the commands to leave, then cancelled, everyone got out of bed and went back in the infected part except one of them and they all died, except one of them never got out and stayed in bed?

 

[lednerg]

When she got into the medibot for her surgery, wasn't she just in the process of being hunted down by two crew members? Where did they go off to?