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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Caipirinha
Member
Anyone else getting a little tired of Colin and Greg's narrative that the "PS4 Pro flopped" etc.?
I mean I don't think anyone is claiming that it is selling gangbusters but did they really think that that is what the console was intended to do? When it has been relatively undershipped, when it has been barely marketed, when it is designed clearly to simply be a PS4 for 4K TVs?
I don't understand what else they are expecting from the Pro, as far as I can tell it does exactly what it's supposed to do and judging by the fact that it sells out of its small shipments on a regular basis it is presumably selling exactly as Sony has hoped...
But no apparently it was a spectacular flop and Microsoft are scrambling to change their plans because of it lmao....
I mean I don't think anyone is claiming that it is selling gangbusters but did they really think that that is what the console was intended to do? When it has been relatively undershipped, when it has been barely marketed, when it is designed clearly to simply be a PS4 for 4K TVs?
I don't understand what else they are expecting from the Pro, as far as I can tell it does exactly what it's supposed to do and judging by the fact that it sells out of its small shipments on a regular basis it is presumably selling exactly as Sony has hoped...
But no apparently it was a spectacular flop and Microsoft are scrambling to change their plans because of it lmao....
beau_beaumont
Member
Yeah, I don't understand why they continue to call it a flop. It's getting pretty annoying. It's funny how someone can work in the industry and be completely (and purposely) ignorant about the technology. It's almost like they (and especially Colin) don't even care to educate themselves when it comes to hardware. I thought it was hilarious how they said the upgrade to graphics were so minimal when they were, by their own admission, just watching sony's presentation streaming on non 4k computer monitors. It's almost comical.
I like a lot of stuff about their podcast, but I'm getting pretty tired of the narrative they are trying to create around the pro.
I think that people have somewhat misunderstood Sony's intentions with the Pro. I don't even necessarily mean Greg and Colin, by the way. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me like a way to:
1) Keep a $400 option on shelves to push to "core" gamers while simultaneously offering a more competitively priced mass market option at or below the price of the Xbox One S and Switch;
2) Convince a relatively small group of PS4 owners to double dip on hardware this generation and;
3) Put something on the market that's closer to Scorpio than the base model in order to compete for more power-conscious consumers between the launch of Scorpio and the launch of whatever their next console will be.
I never saw the Pro as Sony trying to aggressively push a new machine. It always seemed to me like a relatively low cost way of attempting sell a second machine to a hardcore audience and play defense. But hey, just my two cents.
I mean... they openly do not.
I agree with all that. You only have to look at how little the machine has been marketed and the lack of bundle deals.
If they don't manufacture too many and they make money on the box - it's all cream.
Caipirinha
Member
Sony TV division to PS4 division: "guys, we need to shift more 4K TVs, how about giving PS4 owners a reason to buy one?"
PS4 to TV division: "sure babe"
The End.
Not sure why Colin thinks Sony expected it to be anything more? And from a quality perspective, you can see in all the Pro threads that people who own them are very happy with them. So I just don't get the negativity, it seems contrived, as if Colin had this theory for what the Neo would be and when it didn't live up to his expectations it be came a flop by definition.
PS4 to TV division: "sure babe"
The End.
Not sure why Colin thinks Sony expected it to be anything more? And from a quality perspective, you can see in all the Pro threads that people who own them are very happy with them. So I just don't get the negativity, it seems contrived, as if Colin had this theory for what the Neo would be and when it didn't live up to his expectations it be came a flop by definition.
As long as Colin stops the unforced error bullshit I will be happy. In what universe has the pro been a error on their business?
It sells though it's small shipments, it sells for a profit, perception of it is good, software sales are still great for ps4, and sales for vanilla ps4 are still good.
It sells though it's small shipments, it sells for a profit, perception of it is good, software sales are still great for ps4, and sales for vanilla ps4 are still good.
It's more about introducing an unknown variable into a perfect situation. Pro could have been good or bad... but since PS4 was already doing fantastic, the argument is why take the risk?
DriftingSpirit
Member
His perspective isn't going to change. I'd just let it be.
That still doesn't make it an "unforced error" though.
No, but one could easily have made a completely valid prediction that it would be.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Indeed, but months after launch and it seems like a vapid statement now. There isn't much indicating that it was an error aside from it not meeting personal expectations.
Guess I haven't heard enough of them recently to pick up on that narrative. I don't think anyone knows whether its a flop, but from a public perspective it hasn't been an error. If it turns out it really was a flop it could be an error from a sunk R&D costs perspective.
get2sammyb
Member
Plus some of the games look ridiculous on it, Horizon: Zero Dawn being a great example.
EdReedFan20
Member
onemanasylum
Banned
His argument against the Pro was stupid from day one and makes even less sense now.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I've been playing Rise of the Tomb Raider on it, and it also looks fantastic.
I think everyone who was so Anti-PS4Pro greatly exaggerated what it was and blew it out of proportion since they were speculating on what it was 5 months before the thing was even announced.
The Pro situation might also introduce expectations that were not there in the previous generations of consoles. Say when the PS5 launches and many people just hold off on buying it until PS5 Pro comes out. It basically creates a cycle withing a cycle in a single generation. If this ends up being the case then the PS Pro could be seen as an error on Sony's part but this is more long term than short term kind of thing.
RedAssedApe
Banned
have they talked about boost mode at all since the beta release? a bit behind on my podcasts. would be interested to hear their take on it due to their indifference to the ps4 pro so far
H.Cornerstone
Member
PS5 Pro would be in like 2023-4, so really hard to project out that far.
This generation is just really weird, because the PS4 and Xbone were launched during a recession, and they were kind of under powered at launch, and now the next step in Visuals is 4k which consoles still won't be able to do for a couple years affordably, so releasing the PS4 Pro as a refresh to go with VR kind of makes sense just to keep people from flocking to the PC and to improve VR.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
A lot of Nioh misinformation in this podcast, like a LOT of it.....
Right on the money on all the other games that are mechanically harder though(the execution windows in some of the later meatboy levels are smaller than anything in Nioh I encountered so far).
Nioh is srsly easier than Souls/Bloodborne etc though because stats and gear are major crutch + op skills(especially onmyo) it's only starts overwhelming cause you get way too many options at the beginning of the game. Yes I'm the someone that disputes this maybe because I'm actually further into the game and have learned many of it's systems + I actually finished and platinumed all the souls titles so maybe I actually have a more informed opinion? Sue me ... :-x
Also I'm not a good gamer. I suck at games but I enjoy learning systems.
Right on the money on all the other games that are mechanically harder though(the execution windows in some of the later meatboy levels are smaller than anything in Nioh I encountered so far).
Nioh is srsly easier than Souls/Bloodborne etc though because stats and gear are major crutch + op skills(especially onmyo) it's only starts overwhelming cause you get way too many options at the beginning of the game. Yes I'm the someone that disputes this maybe because I'm actually further into the game and have learned many of it's systems + I actually finished and platinumed all the souls titles so maybe I actually have a more informed opinion? Sue me ... :-x
Also I'm not a good gamer. I suck at games but I enjoy learning systems.
He got the difficulty information before the game was released, people on Twitter told him it was harder based on the Alpha/Beta. However, the released version has been nerfed significantly. I would say it has a deeper learning curve than Souls/bloodborne but the levels so far are much easier. I'm dying at boss fights more than on bloodborne though.
I wouldn't blame him for the difficulty stuff because you also have reviewers who said that.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I thought he based his opinion on the time he spend with it? Given that he specifically talks about his time with it? Did I miss something(I could have I listen tot his in the background might have not paid 100% attention at 1-2 sentences in between)?
Also I can assure you that reviewers that have said that have not learned the systems of the game. Heck you can go on twitch right now and watch some DS veterans stream the game that clearly have not bothered to learn the systems of the game either. So many play the patience hit and back off game that you do in DS while also remaining in 1 stance 100% of the time. You can have success with it but it's really a suboptimal way to play because you're not using all these intricate systems the game gives to you. So dunno it's not surprising that people that are under deadlines are not engaging properly in the systems in that case.
Also maybe we got to define "aggressive" more but when you learn to flux and pulse decently once and opening happens you can wail on enemies for a lot of time especially if you get them to deplete all their KI you can basically punish until you yourself run out of it. So yeah I think you can be very aggressive in Nioh maybe with a few boss exceptions(Umi bozu for example cause that's more about learning phases than actually properly exploiting the combat).
Heck you don't even need to do something as hard as learning flux etc. Just learn the magic and ninjutsu system and you can trivialize a lot of stuff that way.
The game just gives you a lot of playroom and if you engage in that a lot of the opinions I'm contesting would definitely be different that said you could argue that because you succeed also by not engaging in them that complaints carry some validity for people that go through the game not making use of it all. I may think that's weird because to me that's like someone trying to make a fire with two wooden sticks and complaining that's way too hard while he also has a lighter at his disposal. But sure it's valid in that yes making fire with two wooden stick is probably not easy.
Nothing I've done in Nioh so far comes even close to Amygdala or some of the other cursed chalice fight you have to do for the BB plat. Nevertheless all is very doable if you learn it, difficulty is so overplayed for these type of games. They're learning games, they're mostly difficult because you have to learn them, they're not that execution heavy. I always get better after every defeat. This is so unlike meatboy later levels where I fucking can try a 100 times and I don't feel I got any better at it. Or maybe even try ranking in any competitive game that's also waaaaaay harder.
I was just speculating based on his posts about the game in this thread before listening. Now that I've listened, yeah he is basing it on his time with the game. I still think people saying it's harder before release has enforced his opinion. I beat Onyroki at level 12 which he says is under leveled. Also for me, the first phase of that boss is harder than the second phase.
I played the Alpha and couldn't go past the beach area lol.
I will give him that there is a difficulty spike between levels and boss fights and that's hold true for the second mission as well.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Have not played the alpha. Also Onryoki is actually a level 5 mission. But not sure what's their metric to decide the mission level since you outpace it by playing the game very fast even if you don't really farm. So dunno I've always been "overleveled".
Also yes first phase I found harder too the spin is just tricky to avoid but dunno I just got a feeling for it over trial and error. The cool thing for me the boss appears a few more times buffed up later in the game even a version that basically 1 shots you most of the time and I just had a far easier time with him which is nice cause it proves that Iearned the boss. First times I tried to beat him in the beta though was harsh certainly up to 20 deaths until I really understood him + it's hard to get rid of souls habits that are just bad for Nioh.
I also kind of want to mention JoeFenix who actually does something that I think is legit super hard, he's close to completing a naked lvl 1 Nioh run. So that's something where you basically have to master the basic combat to a T.
onemanasylum
Banned
Once again Colin spreading BS about souls, which he has barely played. ugh, this is why I stopped listening to this podcast. Nioh is indeed a fair bit easier then souls. Not sure why he continues to double down on Mis-information and nonsense. There is a lot more things that kill you in Souls, those games throw a lot more at you. Nioh is fantastic, combat is great, but it is a lot easier to stay alive in it.
onemanasylum
Banned
This is a playstation centric podcast too...doing a terrible job at it.
I wouldn't say thinking Nioh is harder than Souls is spreading BS about souls. Difficulty is mostly subjective specially since he only has impressions of early hours of those games because he hasn't finished any one of them and probably will never will.
They both really like to re-enforce their believes. I would say this episode regressed back to the negativity again after few good episodes this year.
MrJoobJoob
Member
Colin was right that the Onryoki fight is definitely tough, and it might be a little too big of a jump in difficulty to cap off that first mission -- but it's certainly not dependent on your level. I finished it around level 10, didn't grind or anything, beat him after playing straight through the level finding all the Kodamas & dying to him maybe 5 times. It's definitely a litmus test for a player's ability to complete the rest of the game, the same way Father Gascoigne was in BB.
As far as difficulty goes, I think Nioh and BB are both harder than Dark Souls from a combat perspective. There are two submission bossfights in Nioh that rival the toughest chalice dungeon bosses in BB. Nioh is much easier than the FromSoft games in terms of navigating the game world since it's completely linear.
As far as difficulty goes, I think Nioh and BB are both harder than Dark Souls from a combat perspective. There are two submission bossfights in Nioh that rival the toughest chalice dungeon bosses in BB. Nioh is much easier than the FromSoft games in terms of navigating the game world since it's completely linear.
I'm trying to buy a Pro is there some drought in the UK
None in stock in Amazon, Tesco, Currys or Game
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Which ones honestly I find that hard to believe like I said if you're building your character effectively you can trivialize a lot of content. Sloth Talisman, life saving Ninjutsu scrolls, smoke bombs, etc so many crutch skills + Discord dmg is insanity. Someone even build an infinite Living weapon build which is basically godmode. So I dunno how Nioh can be harder than anything Souls with that. But I might have not encountered those submissions yet. I think Nioh has a way higher skill ceiling but the main content in the game just hasn't struck me as harder than anything in Souls/BB.
Among those types of games Amygdala cursed chalice or some of the other cursed chalice fight I regard as the hardest challenges cause you can't really find ways to make it easier on you. You either master the complete fight or your dead. It's basically DMC the 1 hit dead mode. That said again as with anything you learn the fights it just becomes a dance to victory. You gain your own patterns to counter the enemy ones.
onemanasylum
Banned
Him stating it as fact then brushing off anyone who disagrees is in fact BS. Typical Colin though.
Without dishonest narratives that don't stand up to scrutiny, what else would they talk about?
Having your only SKU be $300 or $250 is not a perfect situation for a console manufacturer when there are millions of potential sales to be made on a more powerful $400 SKU.
MrJoobJoob
Member
Without spoiling anything, the two very last submissions are incredibly difficult. Granted I think people have developed very specific cheese tactics online to make things easy, which wasn't the case AFAIK for that god damn chalice Amygdala. It took me about an hour to get through each of the last two sidemissions, which was about how long it took me to beat the hardest BB bosses. I did it "naturally" though without using cheese, so what you brought up (the fact that BB has no cheese) probably holds water.
You can definitely grind to outlevel the bosses, but the same can be said for the FromSoft games so I don't see that as too convincing an argument for why Nioh is easier.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Two long gestating and very significant games for the PlayStation community (TLG and FFXV) and neither gave a fair chance to either. Especially TLG which they've said they played an hour at most before uninstalling it. They didn't had to like them but this is the world's biggest PS podcast, or so they keep repeating, and yet they couldn't even give a proper impression of these.
There's at least one KF dude who did played both to completion but fuck that, we can't have him (Tim Gettys) on to comment on PSILY
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Looking forward to those submissions.
As for the argument I think it holds more water because stats and gear in Nioh impact gameplay waaaaaaaay more than it ever did in Souls.
I'm wearing this set right now that gives me higher Ki regen and it's ridiculous how much smoother and easier I can navigate in fights. That said I don't really grind in Nioh except for the set I'm wearing but before that I felt like just naturally progressing through stuff rewarded you the best. Staying too long or repeating mission seems to be so inefficient instead of just progressing through the game naturally.
Also dunno if building your character a certain way can be called cheese, I mean is it cheesing that most people aren't doing naked lvl 1 Nioh runs? You're just making use of the systems the game gives you. Is it cheap in a way? Sure but then everything probably is vs the lvl 1 naked Nioh run.
chromatic9
Member
Seems so. Even Argos don't have stock in my area. Amazon have been out of stock for a while.
Online, shopto has some stock.
When you're trying to brand yourself as the Skip Bayless of videogames, it helps to double-down when you think you're right and gloss over an issue when you know you're wrong.
Also...
So now these guys want a department to QC trophies AND a department to keep games off the system. Yes, noted Libertarian Colin Moriarty, champion of the mean, lean institution, now wants to layer Sony in bureaucracy that can literally only lose them money.
USC Trojan
Banned
It would be cool if they invited Bob servo on the podcast to squash that beef.
Caipirinha
Member
I don't really disagree with Colin's reaction to the first hour of TLG, even as I was playing it I was thinking, ok, I am loving the vibe here but there is a lot to hate in terms of controls and performance that I can easily see being red lines for people like Colin. They are normally red lines for me, particularly the poor controls, but I pushed on.
And I do agree that it's no excuse to say "just play for another 12 hours and the game will get good".
But with TLG it's not 12 hours, it's about 2-3, by that point the controls click and it doesn't just get good by the end it gets legendary.
Not likely considering Bob has been taking shots at Greg lately, too.
There are too many games.
The mans in his 30's and running a business. He has shit to do, if he's not feeling it why would he spend more time on it.
Dangansona
Member
Can't help but feel the same.
I guess I'm in the camp where I would rather them play less games that were more carefully selected and that they actually beat than "touching" a bunch of games and having no real opinion on them.
Part of his job is a PlayStation podcast and not having an informed opinion about big PlayStation exclusives take them out of the conversation. That's the thing with Colin & Greg opinion's about games is that their tastes has drifted far off PS exclusives so much that there is very little that they care about and the PS audience care about.
Let me list the PS exclusives/important to PS audience that C&G don't really care about/ won't finish: TLG, GR2, Bloodborne, Yakuza 0, Nier Automata, God of War, Dreams, Nioh, FF15.
He is not wrong that TLG and Gravity Rush 2 has bombed commercially, but he is not right when he say that they bombed critically*.
*Edit: the exact quote just in case "The Last Guardian we can all talk about bombing, in terms of what's sold, what's happening, critical reception, all this different stuff"