Because Colin & Greg are normal people like the rest of us and can't play every game. Games are incredibly time consuming and these guys run a business. For example, the 5 games you mentioned, combined how long do you think it would take to beat all of those games? There is only so long you can spend with a game especially if you aren't really that interested in it, incredibly busy with other more important tasks, or in Colin's case be into a game like Nioh but something you are more interested in like Horizon comes along.
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I listened for the first time in 2 months, the podcast had a very negative tone in general. I don't mind having my opinions challenged, but it seems like they are going out of their way to proclaim GR2, TLG and the Pro as failures without any significant proof just to fit their already-constructed narratives.
Maybe they fell well below Sony's expectations, maybe they didn't, all we know for now is that they were all well received by fans.
You didn't really address that guy's point. He's not asking why they are not finishing the games, he's asking why PR is still giving them early access knowing that they probably won't finish them and will only provide very early impressions to their many fans. This has certainly been the case with the games that he mentioned.
Maybe they fell well below Sony's expectations, maybe they didn't, all we know for now is that they were all well received by fans.
You didn't really address that guy's point. He's not asking why they are not finishing the games, he's asking why PR is still giving them early access knowing that they probably won't finish them and will only provide very early impressions to their many fans. This has certainly been the case with the games that he mentioned.
They probably get early access because they have connections and relationships with these companies. They've both been in the gaming industry for a long time.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Oh, I'm aware of that. Just pointing out that you seemed to be arguing a completely different point to the one you quoted.
Caipirinha
Member
Lol yeah there is no doubt about that, when you compare to any other outlet even patrepn funded like EZA the difference is vast. If you only listened to KF you would have no fucking clue what any of those games are really like.
Yeah, I was. That was my fault. Was coming from a completely different angle.
I really only listen to Kinda Funny and I know exactly what all of those games are. Only hardcore gamers that have a pretty good grasp of things even pay attention to something like Kinda Funny or EZA.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I'd agree with you though, they have a big audience so it makes sense for them to be sent early copies. Would be worse if games were withheld from them. I think the problem is that Colin and Greg have very similar tastes in modern games so they tend to pile onto otherwise well received games that they would never have been interested in in the first place. I mean that's fine, as people know what they are getting with them. My tastes are very much mis-aligned with theirs, so I didn't listen to the podcast to get impressions of games that I may be interested in. It would be nice if the podcast was a bit more diverse and contained discussion about why these games are not for certain people.
I think this is very much highlighted with TLG.
Caipirinha
Member
To be positive I think they do a much much much better job of discussing the business of the gaming industry, a lot of other outlets either don't bother or don't go into anywhere near as much depth - even if in some cases e.g. The Pro they seem to have some kind of emotional reaction they can't see past.
elshoelace
Member
The way Colin talked about Nioh I think why he is having difficulty on the boss is because he wasn't patient enough or got a little too greedy with hits which kills you quickly in these types of games. I personally have been finding the game easier than soulsborne games especially on regular enemies which you can stunlock them to death and ki pulse and keep attacking. The bosses I've fought seem to have pretty big tells as well like the bat lady would scream before you needed to dodge the purple paralysis haze.
But then again I've played all the soulsborne games multiple times so if this was my first foray into this type of game I probably would think it was pretty difficult.
MrJoobJoob
Member
I found the bosses in Nioh to be more difficult than Souls, but the normal enemies & level navigation easier. In Souls half of the difficulty was the way enemies / obstacles were placed, how easy it was to fall off cliffs, or just getting lost in the labyrinthine world design.
Overall I found Nioh roughly as hard as any Souls game, but at this point we're splitting hairs since both Nioh and SoulsBorne are way harder than most major releases.
elshoelace
Member
I agree with you on Souls being more difficult based on level design, those fall deaths get me every freaking time. Opening area of Dark souls 2 and 3 with all those cliffs =(
RedAssedApe
Banned
Why is it that a big YouTuber like Angry Joe who his main job is to review games, hardly gets review copies, but Kinda Funny gets every games early when they don't even review them?
more connections to the industry due to being veterans
onemanasylum
Banned
Really? The bosses are just as easy imo. Nioh is awesome but it is not hard. Bloodborne and Souls bosses were vastly harder imo.
schaft0620
Member
I am sure he will tell you if you ask but, you can get delisted just because the publishers don't like your criticism. Kinda Funny is fairly critical, Joe is fairly critical too but he brings an over the top humor some times that can really piss the publishers off I would imagine.
I don't think he sucks at Nioh. He just doesn't stick long enough in those games to get over the learning curve. Colin is much better at games than I am but I was able to finish Bloodborne solo and now way ahead of him in Nioh because I persisted until I was over these games hump. It's like someone giving up at Mega Man in the first level because he didn't learn the game rules and mechanic. Obviously it's up to him to enjoy what games he wants to play but if Mega Man never existed and the first one came out this year, this day Colin won't stick long enough to play it.
Weird I'm finding Nioh early bosses much harder than Bloodborne. I killed most bloodborne bosses in my first try even though it was my first Souls-like game.
I just don't understand how they can become the biggest Playstation fans/podcast in the world when they don't give any games a chance besides shitty indies and games from studios that fly them out somewhere?
DriftingSpirit
Member
It is mostly because of their work within the last 10 years. They've built up to this point and they are reaping the benefits. That is why the overall quality can drop to this extent.
the drop is extreme. Now it's about 30 min of shooting the shit, a few min of games they played for a minute and deleted, 30-45 min of reading straight off the drop and bad reader mail.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Colin has a weird attention span for stuff. He's ok with playing COD campaigns on Veteran but finds "getting gud" at Nioh offputting. I guess it could just be his preference of shooters but still.
Omnistalgic
Member
Lol...modern day Colin wouldn't stick it out with megaman if it was released today. That's just too comical, Colin is like the biggest MM fan ever. I wonder how he would respond to that, should tweet him.
I also think Souls games difficultly are overhyped. MGSR was harder than BB IMO. Not beating it, but trying to get perfect scores and stuff in MGSR was crazy! I still never managed to master that engine fully.
I also think Souls games difficultly are overhyped. MGSR was harder than BB IMO. Not beating it, but trying to get perfect scores and stuff in MGSR was crazy! I still never managed to master that engine fully.
I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. I know he is the biggest MM fan ever that's why I used it as an example.
Not sure it is fair to compare perfect scores in MGSR to Souls. MGSR perfect scores to no hits Souls run would be more apt comparison lol.
Darth Smurf X
Member
Thank you for posting this chart. I see you Last Guardian at #9. From what I've gathered, TLG is not a bomb commercially or critically. Granted the game was in development for 10 years (who knows how much money was invested), but let's look at it compared to other games:
It was never going to do Uncharted 4 sales, but beating several XBO exclusives (timed or otherwise), Titanfall 2 on multiple consoles and both of its predecessors is impressive for a game of this type. I'm sure it made enough money to make Sony glad it didn't drop it like Scalebound. And if not money, at least goodwill with the fans, and sometimes having a game that shows up in many folks' GotY lists is worth it all by itself to increase the value of your brand. I know it was my GotY 2016.
Metacritic: 82
But truthfully, I think Colin is just continuing this narrative as a joke cuz he knows it riles people upkinda like talking about food and potty-related stuff at the beginning of many shows. At least EZA liked the gamealso, their GotY 2016. The game isn't for everyone and I respect KF for offering up opinions that are sometimes opposite mine.
I can't, however, wait for their impressions of Horizon at release. And that's not sarcasm. I know Greg is already a fan based on his preview, but it'll be cool to see what Colin thinks. And Tim if they let him on PSILY.
Sauce Marlow
Member
Having Colin and Greg talk about your game for 5 minutes would without a doubt give it a huge boost. That's why they get sent every game.
onemanasylum
Banned
Yep, it's ridiculous to me, I think they are horrible at being a Playstation specific show, they do an awful job at covering the PS Brand imo. The Pro silliness and then the constant need to shit on games that are not AAA hyped like Horizon/UC...... I had to stop watching.
It is not only that, it's the fact that they spread a lot of misinformation in the community, they don't play any games at all besides just a couple of major titles and indies they play with their SOs, and then complain endlessly about games they played for 30 minutes or things they've heard but don't even understand.
onemanasylum
Banned
No, I agree, that's what I meant about mentioning the Pro. All the mis-information about the pro, and negativity was grossly overblown by Colin. Also saying Xbox was quickly catching up due to a couple wins in NPD for MS. These are things I don't expect coming from a professional in the game Industry,
I agree they should try and focus more on ps exclusives and the pro. As they tell us, they are the worlds number 1 ps podcast.
There has been quite a few ps/console exclusives in recent weeks which really has passed them over, and that is a shame. Also if they did give them more time it might encourage more of their fan base to buy these games.
But it is hard to argue with them that the pro is not selling well, as well as TLG and Gravity Rush.
There has been quite a few ps/console exclusives in recent weeks which really has passed them over, and that is a shame. Also if they did give them more time it might encourage more of their fan base to buy these games.
But it is hard to argue with them that the pro is not selling well, as well as TLG and Gravity Rush.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I don't think so. Well, at least for Pro and TLG anyway.
I agree with them when they say Sony would announce strong sales of the pro if it was selling
And we saw the TLG charting very low
This is dumb. The sales of the vanilla and pro are together because they are still ps4 systems. And expectations for these two consoles are completely different. if shipments are any indications their expectations are being met.
DriftingSpirit
Member
It isn't so much about chart position than it is about relativity. The games above TLG are multiplat third party titles. TLG's success obviously shouldn't be based on doing better than games like that during the holiday season. It really shouldn't have charted at all if it was that bad.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Even though Sony have said that the pro and psvr have both met expectations and maybe even surpassed them, all while there are shortages in many places?
The argument could be made that they failed by underestimating demand and not manufacturing enough units but they clearly sold what they planned so saying they bombed or didn't meet demand not only means that Sony is lying but also goes against all evidence we have.
lifetimeofnot
Member
That's pretty debatable actually. You stumble around with the control stick. Trying to climb up tricot can be a huge hassle sometimes. Speaking of tricot and controls lol, that creature controls like shit. I had to hard reset my game at one point because tricot refused to do something. After I reset my game he did it on the first try. I shouldnt have to guess of I'm doing a puzzle wrong or if the game just hadn't decided to do what I asked yet.
Dangansona
Member
I will point out that on a Gamefly commercial I just saw on TV, here are the games they highlighted: CoD, Battlefield, FFXV, Watch Dogs 2,and TLG. There must be some market for this bomb.
Conscience Falls
Member
This is the first time I've seen anyone attempting to say that TLG didn't bomb financially. Although admittedly I could be misreading some of this threads content due to mid-term season fatigue. The games standard pricing at retail is and has been 39.99$ (49.99 Canadian) for a few weeks now, that is quite a retained drop for a recently released title. This isn't a discount that temporarily lowers the price to 49.99 at NewEgg for a few days.
The Pro is and has been something that both Colin & Greg haven't been interested in covering which is fine, it speaks to their perspective that they don't think it's important enough for even a PS-centric show. I've been listening to Greg since somewhere around the middle of summer, 2007, they were the first podcast I picked up and actively engaged with and as such, it seems fairly apparent (as it has been stated endlessly on the show) that Greg votes with his mouth and his wallet. If the Pro isn't worth their money, why would it be worth their time? Conversely, I picked up PSVR due to the weight both hosts gave the product, their time and money were enough to interest me and validate a purchase which I would have otherwise not made.
That aside, it's surprising to see the negativity active in this thread towards Kinda Funny. Greg and Colin may be industry icons at this point but it seems like people forget that the guys are A. Human and B. The company is still in its infancy. I'll continue to donate what meager amounts I can towards Patreon because I believe in them and want to see it continue to improve. Their "Garbage truck slowly rolling down the hill" motto still totally applies and I can empathize with it as someone trying to enter the industry from the creative side, video production is by no means an easy thing to do and they're juggling enough projects for twice the amount of employees they have on staff.
TLDR; IDK
The Pro is and has been something that both Colin & Greg haven't been interested in covering which is fine, it speaks to their perspective that they don't think it's important enough for even a PS-centric show. I've been listening to Greg since somewhere around the middle of summer, 2007, they were the first podcast I picked up and actively engaged with and as such, it seems fairly apparent (as it has been stated endlessly on the show) that Greg votes with his mouth and his wallet. If the Pro isn't worth their money, why would it be worth their time? Conversely, I picked up PSVR due to the weight both hosts gave the product, their time and money were enough to interest me and validate a purchase which I would have otherwise not made.
That aside, it's surprising to see the negativity active in this thread towards Kinda Funny. Greg and Colin may be industry icons at this point but it seems like people forget that the guys are A. Human and B. The company is still in its infancy. I'll continue to donate what meager amounts I can towards Patreon because I believe in them and want to see it continue to improve. Their "Garbage truck slowly rolling down the hill" motto still totally applies and I can empathize with it as someone trying to enter the industry from the creative side, video production is by no means an easy thing to do and they're juggling enough projects for twice the amount of employees they have on staff.
TLDR; IDK
onemanasylum
Banned
No it isn't..at all.
It should also be noted that games like TLG and GR2 were not greenlit to make money in the traditional way (money from sales of the game). The budgets for these games are a drop in a bucket compared to games like U4 and Horizon. They exist to bring variety to the library (which help console sales and total software sales). The heavy hitters cover the budgets for these games.
Conscience Falls
Member
I'd argue the sheer development time on The Last Guardian made it anything but a small financial drop in a bucket.
bug_42
Member
Welcome to the internet!
get2sammyb
Member
It wasn't in development for the entire time, though. I get the impression people think Sony had 100s of people working on this game for ten years, but that's not the case. The creative was completed during the PS3 era, and then they just pulled a bunch of people from Japan Studio onto the project to finish it off probably over the past three years.
I bet it barely cost anything compared to something like Uncharted 4 and Horizon.
RedAssedApe
Banned
SolidSnakex
Member
Because to be frank, from the start people have shown on the topic of TLG's financial situation that they're very uninformed about it. That's why Yoshida had to correct a journalist and tell them that it didn't cost anywhere near as much as they thought it did to make and that at that point, Horizon already had a bigger budget than it did (which was in 2015). In other words, Sony as the company that's funding it has a much better idea of how much they actually invested in it, thus they have a much better idea of whether or not it was a financial bomb. And like I said before, given that some people have this bizarre perception of its budget in the first place, the arguments about it being a bomb start from a place of bias.
Just like with TLG, their position here is coming from a place of bias. They've already made their position on the Pro clear, and as such they don't want to give ground on it being a success. Despite the fact that Sony has repeatedly said that it has been successful for them. For them that apparently has to be a lie.
Well, it's worth noting that it wasn't in development the entire time that it was announced. There was a period where development had completely stopped and Sony was figuring out what to do with it while the rest of Japan Studio were working on Puppeteer and other titles. It's another factor that people who are so enthusiastic about calling games bombs don't factor in when talking about it. Just like with Gravity Rush 2, people don't factor in certain things, like that for the most part the game doesn't have cutscenes. Instead most of the story is told through comic panels. While this does fit GR's style well, it's also obviously done as a means to keep the budget in check.
not this again. A long dev time does not necessarily mean a large budget. If you have a few guys working for 10 years that can be much cheaper then 200+ people working for a few years. And TLG was not being developed for 10 years.
Icyflamez96
Member
I actually think that would be a pretty apt comparison.
Only thing is that Colin would be really skilled at 2D sidecrollers in general anyway so he probably would find Megaman easier to learn.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
I can't really say if NiOh is harder/easier than Bloodborne OR Dark Souls. I CAN say that having played the alpha/beta, it made me decide it wasn't a worthwhile investment for my money. I couldn't beat the first boss after at least 10, possibly more tries and I was level 14 or 15, possibly higher. So as much as I LOVED the setting, the art design, the weapons and armor, and am a huge fan of RPGs and whatnot--I mean. Games cost $60--if I can't even beat it, why waste my money?
I just don't complain about it because I know what kind of crowd NiOh appeals to--the kind that's going to tell me it's my fault for being trash. That's a waste of a discussion and I'd rather wait on games like Horizon and Mass Effect--games I have a 100% chance of beating--than get into it with the Souls-like fans. Unfortunately, Colin doesn't have that option--he was asked what game he was playing, and he talked about that for a bit.
I just don't complain about it because I know what kind of crowd NiOh appeals to--the kind that's going to tell me it's my fault for being trash. That's a waste of a discussion and I'd rather wait on games like Horizon and Mass Effect--games I have a 100% chance of beating--than get into it with the Souls-like fans. Unfortunately, Colin doesn't have that option--he was asked what game he was playing, and he talked about that for a bit.
For what it's worth, the beta, and especially alpha, difficulty has been significantly nerfed.
What I think makes Ni-Oh a little more challenging is the fact that it has the three stances mechanic (well 4 with unarmed).
I think this makes things complicated as you need to constantly micro-manage your moves etc based on the enemy's stance/weapon.
Also, the constant R1 ki recharge is essential to being successful.
These mechanics don't make it a bad game, just much more technical. I guess I just prefer the simplicity of Bloodborne's combat over this. But then again, I will need to spend more time with Ni-Oh to truly appreciate it.
I think this makes things complicated as you need to constantly micro-manage your moves etc based on the enemy's stance/weapon.
Also, the constant R1 ki recharge is essential to being successful.
These mechanics don't make it a bad game, just much more technical. I guess I just prefer the simplicity of Bloodborne's combat over this. But then again, I will need to spend more time with Ni-Oh to truly appreciate it.
Like Strings said above the game has been nerfed a lot since Alpha/Beta time. I couldn't get pass the initial beach in the Alpha. I only unlocked the first required shrine in the Alpha.
And now in the released version I'm on Boss 4 with not a lot of trouble. So don't let the Alpha/Beta determine your experience with the game. You might want to rent it to gauge the difficulty again or wait for it to get cheap.
There is a Skill you could unlock early that makes Ki recharge using dodge which changes how you think about Ki pulse entirely and makes it easier to manage.
Nioh has 3 stances and Bloodborne has 2 stances( the transformed version of a weapon). So it's not that extra. However, I agree there is much more to manage and the learning curve is steeper in Nioh but at least the game tries to teach you much more than Soulsborne.