Omnistalgic
Member
Ok...so that junk was really hard??! Thought I was losing some reflexes or something. Like 'how the fook do you NOT get hit by these gorillas and bullets flying all over the place one time the whole mission?" Nuts I say
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
I'd argue the sheer development time on The Last Guardian made it anything but a small financial drop in a bucket.
You literally have zero information about the financial investment and budget compliance of TLG. You're free to argue what you want of course, but to be clear, your thoughts on the matter are worthless. Not saying that to be mean; most posts on GAF are speculation or opinion and are not worth much, mine certainly included. But it's important to keep in perspective that as fans we have almost no insight to offer on this sort of thing.
not this again. A long dev time does not necessarily mean a large budget. If you have a few guys working for 10 years that can be much cheaper then 200+ people working for a few years. And TLG was not being developed for 10 years.
Sony is never going to disclose the development cost of the game or the revenue it generated. Game companies rarely do that under any circumstances.
A game that was in development hell for 10 years being expensive to make and losing lots of money is the safest assumption without knowing the specifics.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Of course, if TLG was in development hell for ten years. It wasn't though.A game that was in development hell for 10 years being expensive to make and losing lots of money is the safest assumption without knowing the specifics.
Sony is never going to disclose the development cost of the game or the revenue it generated. Game companies rarely do that under any circumstances.
A game that was in development hell for 10 years being expensive to make and losing lots of money is the safest assumption without knowing the specifics.
It has been said many times that the game has not be in actual dev for 10 years. Yoshida himself as said as much many times. He has also said that horizon has a bigger budget then TLG.
Of course, if TLG was in development hell for ten years. It wasn't though.
Are there specifics of the development out there somewhere and I haven't seen them?
Yoshida being vauge and not wanting to say anything negative about the game doesn't really mean anything.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
A game that was in development hell for 10 years being expensive to make and losing lots of money is the safest assumption without knowing the specifics.
It's fairly well known that the game was not in development for 3 or 4 years, and it's dev team was never that big to begin with. It's a decent bet that it lost Sony money but there's no way to say for absolutely sure.
Are these specifics of the development out there somewhere and I haven't seen them?
There have been pleny of leaks and articles over the last 6 years that suggest the nature of the game's development. I'm sure a carefully worded google will fill you in.
Work on TLG was most likely ceased for a few years within that 10 since it was announced
That still means it was in development hell.
Not too sure why anyone is arguing this
"Development hell" is an ambiguous term invented by people who don't know how development works, so I don't see why there would be an argument over it.
"Development hell" is an ambiguous term invented by people who don't know how development works, so I don't see why there would be an argument over it.
I think many people think that if game that is "dev hell" it means its in a similar situation as Duke Nukem forever.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
That still means it was in development hell.
Not too sure why anyone is arguing this
IS anyone arguing this here? We are talking about it's budget's effect on the overall perception of the games success.
We all know the development cycle got well out of hand time-wise, obviously this usually goes hand in hand with going overbudget, but I don't think it's so cut and dry with TLG.
Conscience Falls
Member
not this again. A long dev time does not necessarily mean a large budget. If you have a few guys working for 10 years that can be much cheaper then 200+ people working for a few years. And TLG was not being developed for 10 years.
It wasn't in development for the entire time, though. I get the impression people think Sony had 100s of people working on this game for ten years, but that's not the case. The creative was completed during the PS3 era, and then they just pulled a bunch of people from Japan Studio onto the project to finish it off probably over the past three years.
I bet it barely cost anything compared to something like Uncharted 4 and Horizon.
I agree it doesn't necessarily mean that TLG cost nearly as much as something like U4 would have. That said, assuming it wasn't a large financial investment is a bit much considering that it was worked on for a long time. Yes, the game wasn't in development for the full span between conception/release but that doesn't mean it wasn't an expensive endeavor mired in developmental issues. It's not like the game didn't cost a fair amount of money for the company, just not as much as a full AAA game like Horizon.
You literally have zero information about the financial investment and budget compliance of TLG. You're free to argue what you want of course, but to be clear, your thoughts on the matter are worthless. Not saying that to be mean; most posts on GAF are speculation or opinion and are not worth much, mine certainly included. But it's important to keep in perspective that as fans we have almost no insight to offer on this sort of thing.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, should we just not be discussing this at all, or? I don't disagree with the fact that this is all speculation, though it's entirely odd of you to point out the worthlessness of online opinions in regards to an enthusiast forum, of course, our discussion is almost entirely speculation.
Because to be frank, from the start people have shown on the topic of TLG's financial situation that they're very uninformed about it. That's why Yoshida had to correct a journalist and tell them that it didn't cost anywhere near as much as they thought it did to make and that at that point, Horizon already had a bigger budget than it did (which was in 2015). In other words, Sony as the company that's funding it has a much better idea of how much they actually invested in it, thus they have a much better idea of whether or not it was a financial bomb. And like I said before, given that some people have this bizarre perception of its budget in the first place, the arguments about it being a bomb start from a place of bias.
Well, it's worth noting that it wasn't in development the entire time that it was announced. There was a period where development had completely stopped and Sony was figuring out what to do with it while the rest of Japan Studio were working on Puppeteer and other titles. It's another factor that people who are so enthusiastic about calling games bombs don't factor in when talking about it. Just like with Gravity Rush 2, people don't factor in certain things, like that for the most part the game doesn't have cutscenes. Instead most of the story is told through comic panels. While this does fit GR's style well, it's also obviously done as a means to keep the budget in check.
That's totally fair, I missed Shu's statement on the subject. Calling it a bomb was a bit hyperbolic on my part, this most likely comes from the discussions I've had with/heard from people regarding the latest Deus Ex being a bomb despite its numbers not being "bomb level". I'm sure TLG cost less than Deus Ex 2016 as that game was of a larger scale, had been in development for a number of years, and was split into a now-canceled dual project. It seems like the industry definition of a bomb has shifted places and perhaps as a consumer, I need to do a better job of considering said factors. I'll have to claim ignorance in regards to GR2 as I have yet to play it but it sounds akin to the first inFamous game in presentation style.
So on Tuesday one would have to imagine that the show will have a heavy, heavy focus on Horizon and I'm really looking forward to what they have to say.
Greg said on Twitter that he's beaten it and given their trend of not playing anything they don't love longer than a couple of hours, probably safe to assume he really dug it.
Greg said on Twitter that he's beaten it and given their trend of not playing anything they don't love longer than a couple of hours, probably safe to assume he really dug it.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Oh, for sure. Greg was complaining about not being able to talk about the embargoed games he had been playing.So on Tuesday one would have to imagine that the show will have a heavy, heavy focus on Horizon and I'm really looking forward to what they have to say.
Greg said on Twitter that he's beaten it and given their trend of not playing anything they don't love longer than a couple of hours, probably safe to assume he really dug it.
Darryl M R
Member
Hopefully the next episode is a good one focused a lot on Horizon. I believe Greg is taking questions on Twitter that he will try to answer during the podcast.
Let me guess: he was flown out, made by a Sony studio.Hopefully the next episode is a good one focused a lot on Horizon. I believe Greg is taking questions on Twitter that he will try to answer during the podcast.
He'll love it.
So on Tuesday one would have to imagine that the show will have a heavy, heavy focus on Horizon and I'm really looking forward to what they have to say.
Greg said on Twitter that he's beaten it and given their trend of not playing anything they don't love longer than a couple of hours, probably safe to assume he really dug it.
Yep, and Horizon has been Colin's most anticipated first party game for awhile now, so I'd imagine he'll give in depth impressions as well.
DriftingSpirit
Member
No.Let me guess: he was flown out, made by a Sony studio.
He'll love it.
He'll love it but not for the reason you're implying.
Was he not flown out to play it? Of course he's gonna love it. If it was like the pro in which he didn't get a unit, he wouldn't talk about it.No.
He'll love it but not for the reason you're implying.
DriftingSpirit
Member
K.
Let me guess: he was flown out, made by a Sony studio.
He'll love it.
Of course he will!
A free jolly = positive feedback.
Now if only Sony had bothered to supply a free Pro and high end 4K screen...
notaxation
Neo Member
Was he not flown out to play it? Of course he's gonna love it. If it was like the pro in which he didn't get a unit, he wouldn't talk about it.
As you know, whenever we're flown to something, we automatically love it. Kind of like how I saw The Order: 1886 behind closed doors and was pretty much the first person to say "this is going to be terrible" while everyone else was hyping it up, sight unseen.
I could name you like 100 other examples like this, if you want. I have literally no clue how anyone could even remotely claim to be familiar with Greg or I, our Beyond, or PSILY, and think we're up Sony's ass. It's such nonsense. Our show wouldn't be anywhere near as big as it is if we didn't call things as we saw them, good or bad.
And, once again, we didn't do much with Pro because we don't care about it. We're not exactly splitting the atom here. We're not going to discuss things we don't care about. Our audience doesn't want us to, and neither do we.
But, as usual, spin that narrative. Spin it for all to see! Who cares about facts?
Hopefully the next episode is a good one focused a lot on Horizon. I believe Greg is taking questions on Twitter that he will try to answer during the podcast.
We're recording a separate review discussion, and then Greg and I will go in with reader questions on PSILY. I'm about to jump in an Uber to head to the studio now, so we can record both the review and PSILY.
Let me guess: he was flown out, made by a Sony studio.
He'll love it.
Just how he liked The Order?
They have been given plenty of PlayStation games and they didn't like or play Like Infamous Second Son, Knack, Yakuza 0, Gravity Rush 2, etc.
Edit: Beaten by Colin himself lol.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Tried to tell him/her.
We're recording a separate review discussion, and then Greg and I will go in with reader questions on PSILY. I'm about to jump in an Uber to head to the studio now, so we can record both the review and PSILY.
So pumped for this. Thanks for the update, Colin.
GreyOcelot
Member
As you know, whenever we're flown to something, we automatically love it. Kind of like how I saw The Order: 1886 behind closed doors and was pretty much the first person to say "this is going to be terrible" while everyone else was hyping it up, sight unseen.
I could name you like 100 other examples like this, if you want. I have literally no clue how anyone could even remotely claim to be familiar with Greg or I, our Beyond, or PSILY, and think we're up Sony's ass. It's such nonsense. Our show wouldn't be anywhere near as big as it is if we didn't call things as we saw them, good or bad.
And, once again, we didn't do much with Pro because we don't care about it. We're not exactly splitting the atom here. We're not going to discuss things we don't care about. Our audience doesn't want us to, and neither do we.
But, as usual, spin that narrative. Spin it for all to see! Who cares about facts?
We're recording a separate review discussion, and then Greg and I will go in with reader questions on PSILY. I'm about to jump in an Uber to head to the studio now, so we can record both the review and PSILY.
i agree with you, and i think you're right to respond in this fashion. but let's be real here. you spent in inordinate amount of time talking about the pro prior to release
We're recording a separate review discussion, and then Greg and I will go in with reader questions on PSILY. I'm about to jump in an Uber to head to the studio now, so we can record both the review and PSILY.
Do you always take an Uber to get to work? I don't know why that jumped out at me. XD
Listening to the review discussion now. I am so looking forward to this game.
notaxation
Neo Member
Do you always take an Uber to get to work? I don't know why that jumped out at me. XD
I use Uber far, far more than I'd like to admit. Probably ~10 times a week.
I try to take the bus when I can, but timing often interferes. Plus, I'm profoundly lazy when it comes to moving from place to place, which is why I'd rather stay in my apartment and write or watch TV than go out to a bar at night. LOL.
I enjoyed your conversation with Greg last night. I hope you guys dig deeper on the mechanics and world on PS I Love You.I use Uber far, far more than I'd like to admit. Probably ~10 times a week.
I try to take the bus when I can, but timing often interferes. Plus, I'm profoundly lazy when it comes to moving from place to place, which is why I'd rather stay in my apartment and write or watch TV than go out to a bar at night. LOL.
Zelda, I imagine, and the Switch more generally.Nearly sure Greg mentioned games plural when he commented that there was stuff they couldn't talk about
Horizon which I'm sure we all guessed. But what else? The switch maybe?
I use Uber far, far more than I'd like to admit. Probably ~10 times a week.
I try to take the bus when I can, but timing often interferes. Plus, I'm profoundly lazy when it comes to moving from place to place, which is why I'd rather stay in my apartment and write or watch TV than go out to a bar at night. LOL.
Can you tell us if the game will be tough to platinum?
notaxation
Neo Member
Zelda, I imagine, and the Switch more generally.
We don't have a Switch yet.
onemanasylum
Banned
So they think Horizon is better then UC4...I can see that too. Uc4 was awesome but Horizon looks special to me, you can tell Guerilla put a lot of care into it.
Really? Well, I stand corrected. I thought that press and folks in your position had already received Switches.We don't have a Switch yet.
Maybe Breath of the Wild for the Wii U, then? Nier: Automata and Ghost Recon Wildlands are also coming out soon.
EdReedFan20
Member
We don't have a Switch yet.
Speaking of Switch, it appears the dock is little more than a non-proprietary USB-C dock (there appears to be no Nintendo-specific stuff with it). What it does is simply allows the Switch to connect to TV and a power supply, which boosts the CPU/GPU thanks to the extra power (that's how it can be 720p handheld mode/1080p TV mode).
The official extra docks are $90 (for people who want replacement docks or docks in multiple rooms), which to me is a heck of a lot for a USB-C dock (other similarly capable docks are $20-$30 cheaper). Now, if there was something Nintendo-specific that the dock did, I guess could see a case for them charging that much for it. So, having said all that, do you think we will see third parties make Switch docks (that would hopefully lead to Nintendo dropping the price of the official docks)? There appears to be little that Nintendo could do to stop them, as, like I said, there seems to be nothing proprietary about the Switch dock. Of course, Nintendo would warn that use of unofficial docks could lead to damaged units, voiding the warranty, but there'd be no real way for them to prove you used one (if any ever exit).
Even though I knew they where hyped for Horizon Im still somewhat surprised by how much Colin and Greg seemed to like it. The game play footage Ive seen hasnt really impressed me. To me it looked like another Ubisoft esque open world game with combat thats similar to Tomb Raider nothing really new. Am I missing something? Does it just do what those games did but do it better kind of like how Last of Us was an improvement over Uncharted.
While I am burned out of open world games I will probably end up picking up Horizon and hope it lives up to the hype.
While I am burned out of open world games I will probably end up picking up Horizon and hope it lives up to the hype.
DriftingSpirit
Member
You didn't watch the Kinda Funny video?Even though I knew they where hyped for Horizon Im still somewhat surprised by how much Colin and Greg seemed to like it. The game play footage Ive seen hasnt really impressed me. To me it looked like another Ubisoft esque open world game with combat thats similar to Tomb Raider nothing really new. Am I missing something? Does it just do what those games did but do it better kind of like how Last of Us was an improvement over Uncharted.
While I am burned out of open world games I will probably end up picking up Horizon and hope it lives up to the hype.
onemanasylum
Banned
Even though I knew they where hyped for Horizon Im still somewhat surprised by how much Colin and Greg seemed to like it. The game play footage Ive seen hasnt really impressed me. To me it looked like another Ubisoft esque open world game with combat thats similar to Tomb Raider nothing really new. Am I missing something? Does it just do what those games did but do it better kind of like how Last of Us was an improvement over Uncharted.
While I am burned out of open world games I will probably end up picking up Horizon and hope it lives up to the hype.
What would impress you?
Even though I knew they where hyped for Horizon I'm still somewhat surprised by how much Colin and Greg seemed to like it. The game play footage I've seen hasn't really impressed me. To me it looked like another Ubisoft esque open world game with combat that's similar to Tomb Raider nothing really new. Am I missing something? Does it just do what those games did but do it better kind of like how Last of Us was an improvement over Uncharted.
While I am burned out of open world games I will probably end up picking up Horizon and hope it lives up to the hype.
The game seems to take the best parts of many games and that's what makes it good.
The game seems to take the best parts of many game and that's what make it good.
This. Jim Sterling put it best in his review:
Its liberally borrowed from the best and most successful, mixing them together in just the right portions to create an impressive marriage of features that could have mixed disastrously in less skilled hands.
onemanasylum said:What would impress you?
I guess I'm just fatigued by open world games at the minute and wasn't really expecting Horizon to be so well received by pretty much every outlet.
Nearly sure Greg mentioned games plural when he commented that there was stuff they couldn't talk about
Horizon which I'm sure we all guessed. But what else? The switch maybe?
Lego Worlds I'd say is one. Ghost Recon Wildlands maybe. One has an embargo "really far out", which suggests more 2 weeks away.
theindieboy
Member
Lego Worlds I'd say is one. Ghost Recon Wildlands maybe. One has an embargo "really far out", which suggests more 2 weeks away.
I think one is Persona 5 as Greg asked someone if they wanted to review it for KF on twitter.
Their review discussion has really got me even more hyped for this game, with this and Rocket League I suddenly have real intrest in getting a Pro and 4K tv but need to book KFL3 and set aside spending money etc before even think about it, coming from the UK is expensive but so worth it certainly was last year and from what I hear this one is going to be bigger and better but last one at this scale if you can highly reccomend you go!
EdReedFan20
Member
Horizon Zero Dawn AMA - PS I Love You XOXO Ep. 75
Duration: 1:28:28
Greg and Colin have beaten Horizon Zero Dawn, and now, they're prepared to answer your burning questions.
Duration: 1:28:28
Could someone let me know if there are some encounters/events spoilers in this episode. Not story spoilers necessary, but Greg usually likes to describe a bunch of cool events that happens in a game that I would like to experience myself.
I am a half hour in and that is close to where the topic of the show ends and no. They really talk in generalities. They are pretty careful for spoilers.
I am a half hour in and that is close to where the topic of the show ends and no. They really talk in generalities. They are pretty careful for spoilers.
Cool thanks. Will start listening now.