potatohead
Member
I frown upon all those who have not heard the gospel of Jackie "The Real Jesus" Tretton.
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
EdReedFan20
Member
Jack Tretton, former president/CEO of SCEA
Should've used the mic drop GIF!
GreyOcelot
Member
totally with colin on the doughnut drake issue and his concerns about artistic expression. nice to hear a mature viewpoint on that issue that doesn't devolve into PC vs. non-PC shit.
is rachet and clank a platformer? I never played one, but i always thought it was a shooter primarily.
also, the god of war story was never very good, not sure why kratos being a bad character automatically rules the game out for them. i don't particularly like the recent god of war games because i felt like they largely abandoned the metroidvania-ish level design and puzzles that gave the game better balance. ascension felt like a very shallow character action game (just encounter after in encounter in linear levels with no puzzles at all), whereas i always felt like the old god or war games, especially the first two had a better mix of action and non-action. either way it always seemed weird to me that they say they don't like the god of war games because they hate kratos as if a great story/characters are required for a good video game. most video games have bad to awful stories and one dimensional characters
is rachet and clank a platformer? I never played one, but i always thought it was a shooter primarily.
also, the god of war story was never very good, not sure why kratos being a bad character automatically rules the game out for them. i don't particularly like the recent god of war games because i felt like they largely abandoned the metroidvania-ish level design and puzzles that gave the game better balance. ascension felt like a very shallow character action game (just encounter after in encounter in linear levels with no puzzles at all), whereas i always felt like the old god or war games, especially the first two had a better mix of action and non-action. either way it always seemed weird to me that they say they don't like the god of war games because they hate kratos as if a great story/characters are required for a good video game. most video games have bad to awful stories and one dimensional characters
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yeah, it is a combo of platforming and shooting.
I really don't like Kratos but not to the point where I wouldn't buy a game with good/great gameplay to avoid him.
markhimself46
Member
^I agree with your thoughts about the level design in GOW. The best games in the series have a greater focus on puzzles and a bit of platforming. But with Cory Barlog back, I think the new one will be a return to form.
I'll be listening to the new episode after lunch and it sounds like I'm in for a good one!
I'll be listening to the new episode after lunch and it sounds like I'm in for a good one!
Acquiescence
Member
This is he, seconds before he infamously broke into song on stage at Sony's 2009 E3 conference...
EdReedFan20
Member
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Even Crapgamer likes it.
GalacticMouse
Member
It's so good. I'm probably around 5-6 hours into it right now and, as someone who never really got sucked into the series, this is the most fun I've had with a Ratchet game to date. It's gorgeous. The writing is great. Enemy encounters are pretty varied and can get pretty challenging at times. It even starts to feel a little like Sunset Overdrive to me here and there. Some of the enemy types are pretty relentless with their range attacks so you'll have to start jumping around and firing at them simultaneously to keep your health bar up and I was really getting some SO vibes when I came to that realization.
Kinda sucks that this ended up with the same release date as DS3, but it's certainly not a game to sleep on, especially at the discount price. (Hell, it's even $32 for Best Buy GCU members and for another week and a half on Amazon Prime)
You should get it. It's a fun game and it looks really good. Colin is right.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I got Rachet today, never played one before but im enjoying it so far.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
names2hard4you
Member
Looking forward to listening to their opinion on this whole thing.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
Can't wait to listen. I wonder what Greg thinks about the whole thing revolving Neo.
Jack Tretton, former president/CEO of SCEA
Oh god, what a classic moment.
Dammit, I miss Jack Tretton.
Fushichou187
Member
Greg sounds rational. Colin though.... lol his exhortations to Sony to just "shelve it. abort it." is getting into Pachter territory of business strategy prognostication.
Colin, real talk, get a dev from a Bay Area studio that ships multiplatform or even Sony exclusives, as well as someone from Playstation on your show and hurl your angry questions at them. I think you have legitimately good, reasoned questions that deserve answers from people that are actually involved in the process of making and selling games & consoles, not just having the back & forth with yourself on the podcast.
Edit: Got to 27:00 in and Greg says the exact thing I mentioned. Good on you, Greg.
I don't really feel like it's ranting. It's just frustrating that some people don't understand why this whole situation is bad. The Playstation Neo is a bad move on all fronts- it's bad for developers, it leaves a poor taste in the mouths of early adopters, having two skews confuses the market (think Wii to Wii U confusion), and none of the rumored benefits outweigh the cons. I feel like Colin's representation of the outrage is justified and rational.
All of Colin's arguments/complaints are predicated on the assumption that there will be a PlayStation 5, and not just iterations on the 'PlayStation' platform every 2-3 years (which is what I hope for). Buy every second or third one from now on and it'll be like a generational upgrade for you.
As a day one PS4 buyer I don't see this as a "middle finger" (Colin's words) at all. It'll either be a cool upgrade, or a miniscule difference that no one cares about.
As a day one PS4 buyer I don't see this as a "middle finger" (Colin's words) at all. It'll either be a cool upgrade, or a miniscule difference that no one cares about.
Omnistalgic
Member
Or you and Colin are just being pessimistic and none of that will happen. Not really fair to dismiss that outcome
MisterShine
Member
Agreed. I think it's safe to say the PS4K is coming first and foremost from developer needs. Sony went and made a console that is basically PC architecture, but problem is the technology has outpaced the console faster than it usually does. So I can sympathize with devs (especially the ones who arent part of the elite club responsible for the bulk of game sales) who say to Sony "look, at some point the sacrifices we have to make for our game are too great, and it won't be worth it anymore."
People might argue that that point is moot when you consider every game will be required to work on base PS4s anyway. but I promise you, as the generation goes on longer and longer, the performance of that "Base PS4" mode will turn to such shit that people will pretty much have to upgrade.
We don't know if devs wanted this. Actually Shinobi said most devs he talked to where not happy about this.
LOL, that's cute
JamesJoyce1882
Member
I think Colin is really inconsistent with his attitudes towards PS4.5 and his attitudes towards PS1/PS2 games bought on the PS3 PSN that don't work on PS4 anymore.
No game will appear exclusively for the PS4.5, and PS4 users are already used to other people getting better graphics quality (PC gamers). Now there's just a second system with slightly better graphics. And if Colin feels so strongly about the need for longevity of gamers' investments, he should really also support the demand that PS1/PS2 classics run on PS4.
No game will appear exclusively for the PS4.5, and PS4 users are already used to other people getting better graphics quality (PC gamers). Now there's just a second system with slightly better graphics. And if Colin feels so strongly about the need for longevity of gamers' investments, he should really also support the demand that PS1/PS2 classics run on PS4.
pasta_fire
Banned
Agreed. I just don't see how this is a good idea. Why would you ever do something like this when you are in the lead and are swimming in money?
This is kinda bad. It is basically like a new console generation already. They might claim that all games have to work on the base PS4 but that is essentially what happens when a new console generation launches. 90% of the games being made for the new console are made cross gen with some visual and performance discrepancies.
I will say the same oft repeated argument against this, this is not why someone buys a console. PS4 is barely 3 years old and still has very few to no real exclusives. To add on to that, the first one year was filled with cross-gen games. So just over a year's worth of new gen games on PS4 and we already have a new one on the horizon.
Lastly, I really hate this luxury hardware argument that Greg makes. If they really wanted to go the Apple route then they should have given the luxury option on Day 1, like Apple does. Not 2 years into the generation without any forewarning and discriminating it's early adopters.
I will say the same oft repeated argument against this, this is not why someone buys a console. PS4 is barely 3 years old and still has very few to no real exclusives. To add on to that, the first one year was filled with cross-gen games. So just over a year's worth of new gen games on PS4 and we already have a new one on the horizon.
Lastly, I really hate this luxury hardware argument that Greg makes. If they really wanted to go the Apple route then they should have given the luxury option on Day 1, like Apple does. Not 2 years into the generation without any forewarning and discriminating it's early adopters.
Live Free or Die
Banned
wow Colin is way off base. So much hate for the PS4.5. The article said there will be not exclusive stuff for 4.5. Games will run the same as they do now with current Ps4s.
Not really. It is clearly mentioned in all the leaks and also obvious that games will not run the same, the whole reason for the upgrade. The apparent stipulation by Sony is that the games have to run atleast as good as base PS4 or better on the PS4.5 .
GalacticMouse
Member
Huh? The Giant Bomb and Eurogamer leaked articles both state that the PS4K hardware will have additional power available to developers and encourages upgraded resolution (targeting 4K where possible).
what?
the games WON'T run the same way, they will just have the same features and online... Framerate is not a feature
Live Free or Die
Banned
I mean PS4 games on the regular Ps4. If you get the PS4.5, the games will have the "Neo" mode so obviously they will run at the higher specs.
Sony will pretty much let anything pass cert as long as it doesn't brick consoles or have an an exploit for hacking(Just speculating here, I have no idea what they actually look for) .
That policy unchanged will absolutely result in games that are broken piles of crap on original PS4.
If stuff like Skyrim and Drive Club can pass cert, what's to stop a dev/pub from intentionally releasing games they know run like crap on the old PS4? That would basically be a defacto exclusive. Not that I think devs would intentionally do that. They would still want to sell to the larger install base, but it's easily possible for time/budget to run out and that just ends up happening.
I guess that's the glass half-full way of seeing things, i'm more of the idea that some games running like complete garbage on the original ps4 is inevitable
Look at N64 games that are expansion pack optional, and see how well they run without it.
The games might "run" in the most technical sense of the word, but they will increasingly become less and less appealing.
Live Free or Die
Banned
According to the article that is something Sony won't let happen since they don't want that user base separation. Just have to wait and see I guess.
That's entirely possible too. I just personally feel like this whol ething would have to be a dev-focused initiative, because it really seems like something that will just piss the majority of gamers off.
Sony just says the games need to run on old PS4s. That doesn't mean they need to run well. Hell, it's not like Sony is making sure games run well on PS4 currently.
Because when you're swimming in money you can afford to fail. It's the role of the market leader to experiment and try new things, not get complacent.
I address this in my rant below, but will explain it again. That is not how development works. Right now they develop games on PCs and optimize it for the consoles that they have. Optimization usually begins with the most easy to develop or most powerful hardware. Since PS4 and PS4.5 are similar, PS4.5 will be optimized first as it will be easier to develop for and then PS4 will be further optimized as it will require a bigger effort. Almost exactly like cross-gen games from ps3 to ps4. It will become apparent a year after the release of PS4.5.
GalacticMouse
Member
The issue he has isn't that PS4 games will look worse...it's that Sony is changing the perspective by making the OG PS4 look worse by comparison. I was talking to a friend earlier who felt like there is an implicit agreement between the console maker and the customer that game consoles are upgraded in "generations" and not half steps and I think that's been a pretty common sentiment in the comments surrounding these rumors.
Personally, I don't agree with that and I'm excited to see what the gaming industry looks like with incremental updates to hardware. That doesn't mean those concerns are off-base though. It's certainly a questionable business decision. The most interesting thing about all of this will be how PR will handle it.
Exactly. What stops developers from favoring one of the systems over the other? With more power available, why wouldn't they utilize it? Or- why wouldn't they favor the console with a bigger user base and just dismiss the Neo? And the difference between the N64 expansion pack and Neo is a huge cost. If there was an external processor that was like $100 that you plugged in to the PS4 it would be a wildly different story.
Fushichou187
Member
Ultimately as NEO gets announced and closer to launch, we can start hearing from devs who are actually actively developing for PS4 titles that'll run concurrently on PS4 and the NEO, and get a more accurate account of what the real impact is on the development side of things. I'll be more interested in how it impacts indie devs, particularly those really small studios-- or even one-person shows. I wonder if the debug units will have a toggle for built-in "vanilla PS4" performance thresholds that'll allow for more streamlined performance comparisons between the two SKUs during development.
And that story cites August as the time when devs can start submitting games for consideration & cert, correct? That's not that far off. We should be hearing plenty in the coming months.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
To stay in the lead and continue swimming in money? All of the competition is going to have improved consoles within the next year, and Sony doesn't want to rest on their laurels and be behind the curve. Sony has been behind the tech curve before (sticking with CRT tvs in light of LCD technology, sticking with Discmans instead of embracing mp3, too slow to compete in the Mobile phone market, etc.), and I can see why don't want to be behind in what is now their current bread and butter.
And truth be told the price conscience consumer is almost always going to choose the least expensive model and will dismiss the incremental improvements the Neo makes. The Neo offers Sony a way to sell a premium SKU and even double dip into their existing user base, while maintaining a budget sku for everyone else. Really there is nothing to lose in this scenario. Those that feel they need to or have to update are being silly. The Neo coming out doesn't make UC4 look and play bad today.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I still don't agree with them that digital is a good thing.