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[killroy87]

I know. I didn't really ask it as a question. Business-wise it totally makes sense to leave customers in the dark.
But the comparison with phones still doesn't work. Apple doesn't need to remind customers that after the iPhone 6 a 7 will be released. That's how the phone market works. When you buy one you know that there will constantly new models every time and you just buy one when time and price is right for you and replace it whenever you feel the improvement is big enough.
Console generations didn't work like that. Sony is just suddenly changing the rules but didn't thought it was necessary to inform early customers about that. If they had been upfront about it like for example Microsoft with their stupid DRM plans the situation would have been different. That's at least a dick move and deserves criticism.

...it's not though. There is literally zero benefit to them doing that. It's not a dick move, it's just how businesses work. I can't think of one situation in where a company announces a better version of a product in the pipeline, before that initial product is even out. Like, I can't think of anything.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, it just strikes me as an odd thing to point out since there is no precedent for that actually happening.

Besides, if I had to bet, I'd wager this wasn't actually in their plans pre-PS4 launch. A lot has changed in the past three years, I bet it's more recent.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Same. I was all for the PSVR until news of the PS4K. On that note, if all the console manufacturers start doing iterative releases, I doubt I'll remain a multiplatform gamer any more. The cost to stay at the forefront of things, coupled with the subscription fees and everything else, just doesn't seem worth it.

I'm secretly hoping Microsoft don't release an X1.5 either, and instead just go with a shorter cycle with a proper generational hardware refresh, then I'll likely switch over to their platform as my go to.

I was a multiplatform guy in Gen 6 (had PS2/XBOX/GC), but I missed out on too many good games because I was getting an even amount (roughly) of games on each console. Gen 7, I went PS3 only and just focused on that library. Yeah, it sucked missing out on some of the great games on 360 and Wii, but it was better that way in the end for me.

 

[Mezoly]

I was a multiplatform guy in Gen 6 (had PS2/XBOX/GC), but I missed out on too many good games because I was getting an even amount (roughly) of games on each console. Gen 7, I went PS3 only and just focused on that library. Yeah, it sucked missing out on some of the great games on 360 and Wii, but it was better that way in the end for me.

I'm multiplatform guy this generation for the first time and I agree that I lose focus and it's not as good as I thought it would be. It's hard to explain.

BTW for people who bring cell phones all the time. Do you guys realize that phones sales are in decline across the board and that less people are upgrading yearly than in previous years. Also the reason it's a bad comparison between console and mobile is the difference of scale of games between the two platforms. Console games take much longer to make and with much bigger teams. Iteration messes with the hardware target for devs. Now you might say what about PC? Well there is a reason that a lot of devs target consoles and then port the game to PC. In addition, they have more wiggle room with PC targeting and changing the lowest requirement/recommended requirement. Each app I make on Android is a team of 5 people for less than a year and we change that target API multiple time during the development because we might want to do a certain feature that's only feasible in higher android versions. And yeah even on android when we release an app that target 4.3(jelly bean) and higher that is a 4 years old phones people get so mad at us.

 

[Bittercup]

...it's not though. There is literally zero benefit to them doing that. It's not a dick move, it's just how businesses work. I can't think of one situation in where a company announces a better version of a product in the pipeline, before that initial product is even out. Like, I can't think of anything.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, it just strikes me as an odd thing to point out since there is no precedent for that actually happening.

Besides, if I had to bet, I'd wager this wasn't actually in their plans pre-PS4 launch. A lot has changed in the past three years, I bet it's more recent.

From Sony's perspective certainly. Business-wise it makes sense. I'm not surprised or confused why they didn't announce it earlier.
But I don't work for Sony and as a customer of course I criticize them from a consumer's perspective.
That's why I mentioned Microsoft. Business-wise their DRM plans made sense but customers still reacted strongly. And at least their DRM plans were known before the system even launched.
Whether or not this was a recent decision or planned long term is probably something we'll never know. Personally I just feel like I was purposefully left in the dark to buy a system I had otherwise not bought so early.

 

[Swass]

Man i had to stop watching 25 minutes in. Colin crying the whole time was a headache.

Completely agree, Colin has been insufferable as of late.. whether moaning about how tired he is, being a blowhard about career choices, or this latest rant about the PS4.5 and sending out that tweet based on one source to back up his rant.. Think I'm about to tap out on their podcast which is too bad because I like Greg.

 

[Mezoly]

Completely agree, Colin has been insufferable as of late.. whether moaning about how tired he is, being a blowhard about career choices, or this latest rant about the PS4.5 and sending out that tweet based on one source to back up his rant.. Think I'm about to tap out on their podcast which is too bad because I like Greg.

- BioWare founder say it's bad for devs. People react by saying oh he is retired and hasn't been in the industry for while.

- Shinobi say that he heard the same from the devs he talked to. People just glance over that tweet and not talk about it.

- Colin say devs hate this. People react by saying it confirmation bias and Colin is whining.

I'm sure there are devs don't mind this but to me it seems that people who like the idea of ps4.5 don't like people questioning the idea of iterative console. And quite frankly they are being very aggressive to anyone who dislike this idea judging from the other threads that I visited.

 

[eFKac]

- BioWare founder say it's bad for devs. People react by saying oh he is retired and hasn't been in the industry for while.

- Shinobi say that he heard the same from the devs he talked to. People just glance over that tweet and not talk about it.

- Colin say devs hate this. People react by saying it confirmation bias and Colin is whining.

I'm sure there are devs don't mind this but to me it seems that people who like the idea of ps4.5 don't like people questioning the idea of iterative console. And quite frankly they are being very aggressive to anyone who dislike this idea judging from the other threads that I visited.

Yup especially the condescending tone some people

Spoiler

Ohh look CosmicQueso is here too

bring up when talking about the Bioware founder that he is brewing beer now like he is so clueless and out of touch are disgusting.

 

[wapplew]

- BioWare founder say it's bad for devs. People react by saying oh he is retired and hasn't been in the industry for while.

- Shinobi say that he heard the same from the devs he talked to. People just glance over that tweet and not talk about it.

- Colin say devs hate this. People react by saying it confirmation bias and Colin is whining.

I'm sure there are devs don't mind this but to me it seems that people who like the idea of ps4.5 don't like people questioning the idea of iterative console. And quite frankly they are being very aggressive to anyone who dislike this idea judging from the other threads that I visited.

Fear of change, paranoid and envy is the most comment defenses, maybe "iterative console is the future" too.

 

[Swass]

- BioWare founder say it's bad for devs. People react by saying oh he is retired and hasn't been in the industry for while.

- Shinobi say that he heard the same from the devs he talked to. People just glance over that tweet and not talk about it.

- Colin say devs hate this. People react by saying it confirmation bias and Colin is whining.

I'm sure there are devs don't mind this but to me it seems that people who like the idea of ps4.5 don't like people questioning the idea of iterative console. And quite frankly they are being very aggressive to anyone who dislike this idea judging from the other threads that I visited.

I'm not saying devs aren't complaining, though aren't there also devs saying it's as easy as using slider settings on a PC..? Anyway, my point was more about Colin's way of going about it.. dude goes on a 25 minute tirade about how bad the idea is.. and then sends out a tweet to make the rant look justified.. all the while saying he is still going to buy one because he is in the privileged one percentile.. the whole thing came off as rather unprofessional and douchey in my opinion..

 

[Mezoly]

Fear of change, paranoid and envy is the most comment defenses, maybe "iterative console is the future" too.

Honestly it got even worse. People already brought up "Don't Tread on Me" in the Colin source thread just to discredit him.

 

[Mezoly]

I'm not saying devs aren't complaining, though aren't there also devs saying it's as easy as using slider settings on a PC..? Anyway, my point was more about Colin's way of going about it.. dude goes on a 25 minute tirade about how bad the idea is.. and then sends out a tweet to make the rant look justified.. all the while saying he is still going to buy one because he is in the privileged one percentile.. the whole thing came off as rather unprofessional and douchey in my opinion..

Like I said some devs will be fine with it. But even if it was as easy as slider settings they will need to test for two SKUs. Also not all devs situation is equal. I imagine Indie and third party devs will be better suited to deal with this than First Party studios with proprietary engine.

They probably should've separated that segment into it's own video as it was recorded at a different time. He is going to buy one because he cover PlayStation and he has a big PlayStation audience plus you could buy something even thought you don't think it's a good idea. In C&GL he said he hope he is wrong and it would work out.

 

[RoKKeR]

- BioWare founder say it's bad for devs. People react by saying oh he is retired and hasn't been in the industry for while.

- Shinobi say that he heard the same from the devs he talked to. People just glance over that tweet and not talk about it.

- Colin say devs hate this. People react by saying it confirmation bias and Colin is whining.

I'm sure there are devs don't mind this but to me it seems that people who like the idea of ps4.5 don't like people questioning the idea of iterative console. And quite frankly they are being very aggressive to anyone who dislike this idea judging from the other threads that I visited.

Yeah, some of the responses to Colin's take on this thing have been embarrassing.

I'm always down for a Colin rant on something, whether or not it's something I agree with. I feel he articulates his opinions very well and, in this particular case, is taking the position of the guy who bought a PS4 for Christmas last year as well as the developers that now have this strange half step to deal with. Also he addressed the whole "why is he still buying one" thread on Twitter. If I wasn't on mobile I would pull it up.

 

[Roussow]

When Colin was predicting when Sony's exclusives would come out -- I think he anticipated The Last Guardian in September or October, Horizon in November, then Bend's game in February, I wonder where he thinks Media Molecule's Dreams will come out? It's currently a bit of a wildcard. I'd love to get his thoughts on this here in the thread.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

I know that I'll only be getting the PS4K or the PSVR this generation, not both.

I hope this post isn't meant to insinuate that PS4K will hurt the sales of PSVR.

I will be getting both and don't see how one cannibalizes another. PSVR first because to me that is a paradigm shifting console/peripheral w.e. But later on I'll definitely be getting PS4K.

I'll say this regarding PS4K -we all love speculating, hell it's kinda like a sport here on Gaf- how about we wait for Sony to officially announce this.

It kinda sucks for them because the cat was outta the bag at GDC and they really needed to get in front of it but haven't. I'd say the general reaction online has been negative and Sony needs to nip it right quick.

Let them announce this, and explain why it's a good thing. So far, based on the leaks Sony is working really hard to not fragment the userbase and ironically enough, it's to the detriment of the PS4K customers because their machine will be hindered by our machine at the onset.

I say at the onset because I believe that should PS4K sell like gangbusters and overtake the sales of the base PS4, trust me there will be PS4K/NEO games that can only run on that system no matter what Sony says.

Completely agree with Colin on the notion that the "special/extra/exclusive features" of the console is the fact that it will run games better.

Surprised that Colin has been so negative about it. Some folks will take offence on how he's been going about it and I can care less, to me it's the why. I don't get his explanation of why PS4K will be a bad thing.

I think just like in 2013, Sony needs to get the price right, the messaging has to be right and educate the consumer on how this new hardware doesn't make your old hardware absolete and if anything explain why they should upgrade. Additionally I think Sony should incentivise base PS4 owners to upgrade and dare I say create or have a program in place to facilitate this upgrade path.

Sony needs to be very careful how it treats the ones that brought them to the dance.

Something tells me 2 things.

1.although consoles are usually planned for years in advanced prior to actually release, this PS NEO (why do I keep calling it PS4K?) was conceived just recently. Not on a whim per say but this didn't have a 6-7 year roadmap behind it.

2.this may be an important event for consoles going forward. Colin will forever be correct that the market is self correcting and always speaks. This is no different. Coming into a generation in which many analysts had written off consoles, MS and Nintendo will be watching Sony's fortunes on this NEO endeavor with keen eyes.

If successful we may or may not expect this to become the norm going forward regardless of the Shu comment to Lorne Lanning about PS5.

This gen, being the first gen I have owned something other than a Sony system is very exciting for me.

I expected MS to churn out amazing 1st party exclusives like Sony did last gen when lagging behind, and they will. I don't expect MS to stay idle regarding an Xbox One refresh, which I welcome. Especially considering Phil Spencer was the first one to speak about mid gen console upgrades.

 

[names2hard4you]

I'm not saying devs aren't complaining, though aren't there also devs saying it's as easy as using slider settings on a PC..?

As a software developer I can guarantee you that it's not like that, not a single dev will say it's easy. Just because the user interface shows you sliders it doesn't mean that there isn't memory allocation and resources being shuffled around in the back end, which someone had to work on and optimize so that the game doesn't crash when it requires more memory, and therefore more speed to process information for you to see. A lot of people assume that software is as easy as telling someone "make it happen", but it doesn't work like that.

 

[LiK]

As a software developer I can guarantee you that it's not like that, not a single dev will say it's easy. Just because the user interface shows you sliders it doesn't mean that there isn't memory allocation and resources being shuffled around in the back end, which someone had to work on and optimize so that the game doesn't crash when it requires more memory, and therefore more speed to process information for you to see. A lot of people assume that software is as easy as telling someone "make it happen", but it doesn't work like that.

Yea, it's not only more work but something extra to think about that devs need to contend with from now on.

 

[names2hard4you]

Yea, it's not only more work but something extra to think about that devs need to contend with from now on.

Let's not forget the testing too. Sony is putting strict rules as to how both titles must be comparable, must connect online without user disparity, etc, etc. One side will have better frame rates and faster user input, while some other don't. Multiplayer games specially will have to account for that. Input delay calculations must be made in order to keep player at a somewhat even playing field, as well as other things. It's not easy man. More man power is definitely going to be needed in order to meet those deadlines on both dev and testing sides. On the bright side, I guess more devs will be getting jobs. Either that or even harsher crunch times for those already employed, and those suck.

 

[tebunker]

Let's not forget the testing too. Sony is putting strict rules as to how both titles must be comparable, must connect online without user disparity, etc, etc. One side will have better frame rates and faster user input, while some other don't. Multiplayer games specially will have to account for that. Input delay calculations must be made in order to keep player at a somewhat even playing field, as well as other things. It's not easy man. More man power is definitely going to be needed in order to meet those deadlines on both dev and testing sides. On the bright side, I guess more devs will be getting jobs. Either that or even harsher crunch times for those already employed, and those suck.

You know as well as anyone probably that the devs will all be asked to do more with less.

Its a shane but oh well. I generally don't mind Colin rants but I am holding off until I have more time to digest it. I don't honestly feel like he has all the right information when he goes off so I don't want to judge him to harshly for it.

I do think it is fair to criticize people that rail against the idea and yet still support the bad idea. The old axiom that actions speak louder than words. Saying something is shitty and then supporting that shitty practice only reinforces that shitty practice no matter how well constructed your criticism of it is.

I guess as long as you come in to thus podcast expecting discussion from two entertaining people and not much more you generally will never be disappointed. I don't expect editorial content or journalistic content from these guys and they deliver on those expectations.

 

[killroy87]

Let's not forget the testing too. Sony is putting strict rules as to how both titles must be comparable, must connect online without user disparity, etc, etc. One side will have better frame rates and faster user input, while some other don't. Multiplayer games specially will have to account for that. Input delay calculations must be made in order to keep player at a somewhat even playing field, as well as other things. It's not easy man. More man power is definitely going to be needed in order to meet those deadlines on both dev and testing sides. On the bright side, I guess more devs will be getting jobs. Either that or even harsher crunch times for those already employed, and those suck.

Multiplayer PC games have had to account for this since forever, and they need to consider much more than two possible configurations. I'm not saying that more work won't be required, but this seems like a case of some armchair game development without you actually knowing how it works.

Again, has no one considered the idea that Sony actually brought this point up themselves internally and considered the impact it would have? Why are we just all rushing to the defense of developers, when we have no idea what effect it actually has on them?

 

[pastrami]

Wow, I can't get behind Colin's rationale. Like, he complains that the PS4K will divide the user base, then 2 minutes later he complains that the PS4K will be held back by the PS4.

He also complains that the PS4 will get the shittier version of games. While technically true, the Neo doesn't make the PS4 weaker, and the PS4 won't get stronger if the PS4K doesn't exist. That "shittier" version is what the PS4 would get whether the PS4K exists or not (disregarding developer optimizations or lack thereof).

I just don't get the outrage. The only concern that I think is rational is the chance that developers will be stretched thin. Everything else just seems irrational and like a knee-jerk reaction of "oh my god, someone is going to get something better than me unless I spend more money."

Edit: I just heard the part where he said it might as well be gold plated. Obviously hyperbole, but Jesus Christ.

 

[names2hard4you]

Multiplayer PC games have had to account for this since forever, and they need to consider much more than two possible configurations. I'm not saying that more work won't be required, but this seems like a case of some armchair game development without you actually knowing how it works.

Again, has no one considered the idea that Sony actually brought this point up themselves internally and considered the impact it would have? Why are we just all rushing to the defense of developers, when we have no idea what effect it actually has on them?

Yeah PC devs have been dealing with it for a while. Sony devs haven't.

 

[killroy87]

Yeah PC devs have been dealing with it for a while. Sony devs haven't.

Would it blow your mind to hear that every game is developed on a PC first?

Lol I honestly don't know how to reply to this thought process. People are defending developers to the point of being patronizing, like you're all assuming they don't know how to develop games. 90% of PS4 games are on PC anyway lol. And even for the games that aren't, the devlopers of those games usually have games that do.

The number of console-exclusive developers that don't ever touch PC is MINUSCULE. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Naughty Dog. I'm sure there are others, but you know what? I think Naughty Dog will manage just fine.

You guys really need to take a look at the argument you're trying to make, take a step back, and see how silly it is. Developers know how game development works.

 

[names2hard4you]

Would it blow your mind to hear that every game is developed on a PC first?

Lol I honestly don't know how to reply to this thought process. People are defending developers to the point of being patronizing, like you're all assuming they don't know how to develop games. 90% of PS4 games are on PC anyway lol. And even for the games that aren't, the devlopers of those games usually have games that do.

The number of console-exclusive developers that don't ever touch PC is MINUSCULE. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Naughty Dog. I'm sure there are others, but you know what? I think Naughty Dog will manage just fine.

You guys really need to take a look at the argument you're trying to make, take a step back, and see how silly it is. Developers know how game development works.

It is done on a PC with set targets in mind yes. Those limits are now expanded for the Neo. It is not as easy as you claim it is, I'd love to see your game development qualifications and exchange some thoughts on the matter. I'll give you an example of a console dev team that tried to do it and failed: FROM Software with Dark Souls one. It should be easy to do as you say right? I mean console games are developed on PCs right? So they should be able to just drag and drop, C++/java code will automatically change itself and it's all happy endings for everyone. A more recent example: Quantum Break on Xbox One. Its architecture should be quite similar to that of a computers, with specs and parts akin to a mid-range PC. How come the game doesn't run better? And yes you can blame this on the developers not doing it properly, but why is it happening in the first place? Because it is not easy.

 

[killroy87]

It is done on a PC with set targets in mind yes. Those limits are now expanded for the Neo. It is not as easy as you claim it is, I'd love to see your game development qualifications and exchange some thoughts on the matter. I'll give you an example of a console dev team that tried to do it and failed: FROM Software with Dark Souls one. It should be easy to do as you say right? I mean console games are developed on PCs right? So they should be able to just drag and drop, C++/java code will automatically change itself and it's all happy endings for everyone. A more recent example: Quantum Break on Xbox One. Its architecture should be quite similar to that of a computers, with specs and parts akin to a mid-range PC. How come the game doesn't run better? And yes you can blame this on the developers not doing it properly, but why is it happening in the first place? Because it is not easy.

I don't know what to tell you man. Quantum Break runs like shit on PC, I agree, but Alan Wake and Max Payne 1 & 2 were perfectly fine. So it seems like QB was just Remedy fucking up. And regarding Dark Souls, again, that's referring to that minuscule developer pool I talked about who had never made a PC game before. And they were incredibly open about never making a PC game before. And guess what? Dark Souls 2 and 3 have been miles better (DS3 has dumb bugs, but that's standard patchable crap).

I'm not saying anything here is easy, I'm just saying that everyone saying how difficult this all is for developers is assuming a whole lot about the situation. Mainly, that Sony apparently didn't consider at all the effect this would have on developers. And that seems like a silly thing to assume to me.

 

[streetsahead123]

Used to listen to Beyond and bunch of other gaming podcasts until I got burnt out on them 3-4 years ago. Jumped back in with PSILY and the KF Gamescast on a whim this weekend and fell right back into it. Feels good to be back.

IMO Colin is totally right about the Neo. I see Greg's point and it ultimately doesn't bother me too much, but if I'm a high school/college kid working a minimum wage job and I save up or blow my tax return on a PS4 to get up-to-date with the current generation and two months later Sony says "Here's a PS4.5 for the same price that you just bought a PS4 for," I'd feel cheated. It's a baffling move in a lot of ways and I feel sorry for Sony's marketing team that's gonna have to try to sugarcoat something that's already proven to be intensely divisive.

 

[names2hard4you]

Colin and Greg share more of their thoughts on the Neo on Gamescast

 

[Silent Hill]

Colin and Greg share more of their thoughts on the Neo on Gamescast

Now going to watch. Thanks.

 

[names2hard4you]

It's a good listen, and I said it once and will say it again: I'm with Colin. I get what he's saying, where he's coming from and all of those concerns are valid. All we can do is sit and wait on Sony to tell us more.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

At this point, between the two podcasts and C&GL, I'm just kind of sick of hearing them talk about this, especially since we don't have all the facts yet. I hope Sony announces this thing sooner than E3.

 

[CosmicQueso]

It's just the same rant from the other podcast.

 

[vypek]

At this point, between the two podcasts and C&GL, I'm just kind of sick of hearing them talk about this, especially since we don't have all the facts yet. I hope Sony announces this thing sooner than E3.

After all the threads on here I got tired of hearing about the product. I'm interested in hearing and learning more about it but I just can't care about it as much without knowing more. I'm probably not going to buy it anyways.

 

[GalacticMouse]

At this point, between the two podcasts and C&GL, I'm just kind of sick of hearing them talk about this, especially since we don't have all the facts yet. I hope Sony announces this thing sooner than E3.

Agreed. When I loaded up the gamescast last week and realized they were leading in with another long stretch on Neo, I had to shut it off.

I'm super interested in the tech side of what Neo will be and I'm also interested in the business implications as well. The difference here is that we know what the tech side is thanks to Giant Bomb and Eurogamer.

The business implications are hugely dependent on how Sony chooses to message this thing and what the price gap between it and and the standard PS4 will be. Right now we have rumors supporting both sides of the argument and people are just cherry picking data points and talking in circles.

It's been a fun news cycle this month but I hope we're done with the leaks. At this point I just want to know what this thing is and how Sony sees it in the marketplace.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's just the same rant from the other podcast.

Yeah, I am getting over reading or hearing about it now. We get your opinions. There are only so many ways you can repeat the same opinion before it is ad nauseum.

Just going to wait for official information.

 

[Raylan]

Yeah, I am getting over reading or hearing about it now. We get your opinions. There are only so many ways you can repeat the same opinion before it is ad nauseum.

Just going to wait for official information.

Are some people still doubting that it's coming?

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Colin and Greg share more of their thoughts on the Neo on Gamescast

Awesome thanks.

Not sure why people are saying its the same rant. Its alot more thought out and more in depth in my opinion. This segment in the Gamescast is way better then C&G Live and PS I love you. I enjoyed the previous two segments as well. I guess I'm the only one.

 

[vypek]

Are some people still doubting that it's coming?

I think its more that people want more information straight from the horse's mouth. Like knowing the logistics behind it like launch time, price, general marketing behind it, etc...

 

[CosmicQueso]

Not sure why people are saying its the same rant. Its alot more thought out and more in depth in my opinion.

How so? The only difference is he begins by summarizing his "5 key points" which were all included as part of his last podcast on the issue. The reasoning is the same though, including using many of the exact same supporting arguments. I guess it's more structured but I didn't take away more thought out or in depth? What am I missing?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Are some people still doubting that it's coming?

No, I want their (Sony's) message and exact specs, etc..

Not endless rants of the same opinions repeated ad nauseum like Fox News or CNN political debates. It becomes boring when there is nothing new to add, and endless arguing over each other.

I think its more that people want more information straight from the horse's mouth. Like knowing the logistics behind it like launch time, price, general marketing behind it, etc...

Bingo.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Same argument as last week. it seems like the negative side of the argument is actually getting the most response, the most "support" for lack of a better word. Gamers complain about everything, most of the stories have been against it, lukewarm to the idea, or extremely skeptical, I don't understand this unspoken for "voice" Colin feels he has to stand up for.

I feel like the people who are genuinely excited about new hardware, and think this could be a better way for consoles going forward instead of doing a hard reset every 6 years don't have a voice. Besides the poster here on GAF who made the long detailed thread.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Same argument as last week. it seems like the negative side of the argument is actually getting the most response, the most "support" for lack of a better word. Gamers complain about everything, most of the stories have been against it, lukewarm to the idea, or extremely skeptical, I don't understand this unspoken for "voice" Colin feels he has to stand up for.

I feel like the people who are genuinely excited about new hardware, and think this could be a better way for consoles going forward instead of doing a hard reset every 6 years don't have a voice. Besides the poster here on GAF who made the long detailed thread.

Which is also a developer isn't he? If it is the one I am thinking of.

 

[killroy87]

Same argument as last week. it seems like the negative side of the argument is actually getting the most response, the most "support" for lack of a better word. Gamers complain about everything, most of the stories have been against it, lukewarm to the idea, or extremely skeptical, I don't understand this unspoken for "voice" Colin feels he has to stand up for.

I feel like the people who are genuinely excited about new hardware, and think this could be a better way for consoles going forward instead of doing a hard reset every 6 years don't have a voice. Besides the poster here on GAF who made the long detailed thread.

Which is exactly what happens when we only have half the information to work with. People have chosen to fill in the blanks themselves, and decide it's all negative.

 

[JTripper]

Same argument as last week. it seems like the negative side of the argument is actually getting the most response, the most "support" for lack of a better word. Gamers complain about everything, most of the stories have been against it, lukewarm to the idea, or extremely skeptical, I don't understand this unspoken for "voice" Colin feels he has to stand up for.

I feel like the people who are genuinely excited about new hardware, and think this could be a better way for consoles going forward instead of doing a hard reset every 6 years don't have a voice. Besides the poster here on GAF who made the long detailed thread.

I feel like it's easier to see a negative outcome with the Neo than it currently is to see a positive one considering how little we know about it and how little Sony has said anything about it. Since we're also not used to something like this happening in the console market, it's hard for a lot of people to look at this one, standalone example as being the one that might change everything for the better because for many it's not a realistic expectation. Plus, without an official word from Sony yet regarding this thing, people are free to make as many assumptions as possible which often leads down a rabbit hole of negativity.

When we don't have enough info, we look to the past and current status of things in order to judge whether this could be a good or bad thing, which is what people are doing now. The only thing that people aren't always willing to admit, which Colin honorably does, is that they just DON'T KNOW how it'll turn out and it could all just be hyperbole and they want to be proven wrong.

 

[jennetics]

Am I the only one who didn't mind Colin's ranting? Actually, I kind of enjoyed it.

Spoiler

Don't mind me, just passing through.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I usually enjoy a good Colin rant. (still haven't seen the neo episode yet tho)

 

[Roufianos]

I always doze off and wake up when they start their Jacky T impressions.

"Hey Colin!"

 

[Omnistalgic]

Which is also a developer isn't he? If it is the one I am thinking of.

yea I believe he is. Thinks it'll be good in the long run.

Which is exactly what happens when we only have half the information to work with. People have chosen to fill in the blanks themselves, and decide it's all negative.

true.

I feel like it's easier to see a negative outcome with the Neo than it currently is to see a positive one considering how little we know about it and how little Sony has said anything about it. Since we're also not used to something like this happening in the console market, it's hard for a lot of people to look at this one, standalone example as being the one that might change everything for the better because for many it's not a realistic expectation. Plus, without an official word from Sony yet regarding this thing, people are free to make as many assumptions as possible which often leads down a rabbit hole of negativity.

When we don't have enough info, we look to the past and current status of things in order to judge whether this could be a good or bad thing, which is what people are doing now. The only thing that people aren't always willing to admit, which Colin honorably does, is that they just DON'T KNOW how it'll turn out and it could all just be hyperbole and they want to be proven wrong.

Yea Sony doesn't seem likely to get in front of this until they are good and ready, how many months did we have to speculate on Sony VR before it was official?

 

[thumb]

Yea, it's not only more work but something extra to think about that devs need to contend with from now on.

Okay, but how is this different from anything mandatory that some users may want but costs devs extra time and testing?

For example, Colin loves trophies. Devs HAVE to spend time implementing and testing them. They don't have a choice. I'm sure some devs would love to not have to do trophies. Not every gamer even cares.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Am I the only one who didn't mind Colin's ranting? Actually, I kind of enjoyed it.

Spoiler

Don't mind me, just passing through.

No. I don't mind it. Some of the points he was saying seemed missed by Tim and Greg. The main missed point being this is very different than last generation's slim models. The performance of games were unchanged in those (and in some cases, worsened- i.e. PS2 BC being dropped from PS3). The improvements to those consoles were hardware (i.e. the added HDMI in 360 etc, the size, power consumption, etc.) that did not affect the games (the graphics and framerate stayed the same). I'm excited that this will exist, yet doubt I will get it. I'll hold out for PS5/XB(2?)

 

[RoKKeR]

Am I the only one who didn't mind Colin's ranting? Actually, I kind of enjoyed it.

Spoiler

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Always enjoy a good Colin rant.

Yes, the Neo talk is getting a bit long in the tooth after so much time without official information, but I understand they have to have the discussion everywhere on their platform.... It's the biggest story of the year so far.

 

[etta]

I enjoyed listening to Colin about the Neo, both times, I don't consider him frustrating at all.