PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

gundamkyoukai said:
So every time a manufacture brings out new hardware there being anti-consumer ?
No consoles just becoming like everything else in the world .
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I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
 
Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" with new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
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This isn't a new generation. PS4 is still the primary platform. This will just have some visual enhancements to the same games and Sony seems to be pushing enhancements with 4K displays in mind over anything else.
 
Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
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That's under the assumption that games are made first with NEO, which won't be the case as all games must be feature complete with the OG hardware. Its far easier to port up and add a few things like, AA, better res or FPS, than port down and try to squeeze blood out of a stone with scaled down lower fidelity assets
 
Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
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Your PS4 games will continue to function exactly the way they would if the gen had lasted 7-8 years. The only difference is they will run at higher resolution and IQ for those who invest in the iterative update.

This is normal in the consumer electronics world and the fact games can't be Neo only makes this extremely NOT anti consumer. You are wrong and being silly.
 
Prisoner said:
Not if you bought a PS4 already.

And I get it, you guys are excited for your shiny new toy. You don't all need to tell me I'm silly and wrong.
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Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
Click to expand...

The base games will be exactly what you would have gotten had neo not come out. Nothing changes there. Youre losing nothing if youre happy with what you have.

There are considerable sacrifices done now on ps4 compared with the PC versions of games too. Did that bother you? I bet you never even noticed.
 
Inuhanyou said:
Where do the documents say that the PS4 NEO's 'base mode' runs games at the same clocks as the original PS4?
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basemode5ljzv.png

The third line "All specs"

But yeah, as you said, the GCN improvements may lead to better performance even if they're set to the same clockspeed. Still, the ideal scenario would be that they didn't limit the clockspeed at all though and let games access however much they want to access from the gpu and cpu to even out the framerates and what not. Of course they won't be able to access the 18 extra CUs that are there, since they're not designed to, but games with unlocked framerate that depend on either gpu or cpu stand to gain so much if they're not limited.
 
Prisoner said:
Not if you bought a PS4 already.

And I get it, you guys are excited for your shiny new toy. You don't all need to tell me I'm silly and wrong.
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I have a ps4 already and even though I'm not sure if I'm going to get the Neo, I am happy for Sony to offer me the option if and when I decide to get one.
According to your line of thinking slim revisions of past consoles were all anti consumer, since they were updated versions of consoles that already had large installed bases.
 
Glory Fades said:
have your avatar hanging in my Living room, in painted form.



Its a very scary time to be honest. They are asking me to plop down 4-500 again, only to have a PS5 come out in a couple years?
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This hardware retains its value fairly well. When the "PS5" releases, sell your Neo for a $100-150 loss and buy a new system.

I'm super excited by where things are going. Having console life cycles of 6-7 years is absolute madness, especially for how absurdly cheap the hardware is. Even at launch most console releases have been relatively affordable.
 
farisr said:
basemode5ljzv.png

The third line "All specs"

But yeah, as you said, the GCN improvements may lead to better performance even if they're set to the same clockspeed. But still, the ideal scenario would be that they didn't limit the clockspeed at all though and let games access however much they want to access from the gpu and cpu to even out the framerates and what not. Of course they won't be able to access the 18 extra CUs that are there, since they're note designed to, but games with unlocked framerate that depend on either gpu or cpu stand to gain so much if they're not limited.
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I agree, it would be better and an instant win that doesn't depend on devs patching games whenever they feel like it. It would especially bode well for older PS4 titles that aren't likely to get patches.

Also thanks for the clarification.
 
Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
Click to expand...

A reality that doesn't line up perfectly with your ideal scenario does not necessarily translate into anti-consumer behavior.
 
Inuhanyou said:
Where do the documents say that the PS4 NEO's 'base mode' runs games at the same clocks as the original PS4?

And also, if that was confirmed, how is it possible that the same clocks of OG PS4 would somehow give the same result of OG PS4 on NEO, even when the GPU is completely different and would give higher performance in GPU related scenarios by default because of the more advanced architecture? The PS4 GPU's flops are not the same as the Polaris flops because the CU's are based on different iterations of GCN.
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As far as I understand it they're using a bunch of tricks to make the new architecture work exactly as the old did when in base mode.
 
Prologue said:
How likely is a Q1 release? I was hoping for this year so i can sell my ps4.
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It's likely coming out this year, probably October or November. Possibly even sooner depending on how much they want to emulate Apple.
Andrew House in an interview did state that he really liked the way Apple do their reveal and release the product very soon afterwards.

Since the Neo is being revealed on September 7th, I'd say it's definitely this year.
 
Prisoner said:
I don't about you, but when a manufacturer releases a new console, I expect it to be their primary platform for 7 or 8 years. 5 at the very least.

The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.

I don't see what is so irrational or difficult to understand about my position.
Click to expand...

Things change man. Consoles just happening to catch up to rest of consumer devices.
Also OP does not state what you say. If you'd read what the OP actually said, you'd see this clarification at the end:

'Also the word "Sacrifices" is being blown out of proportion. There are sacrifices made when making a console version of a game as compared to a PC game or when making an XB1 game as compared to a PS4 game. Don't expect PS4 games to all of a sudden become shit just expect them to run better on PS4K. I would expect a game that is really pushing the graphics envelope to run at 1080p 60fps on PS4K while the same game might run at 900p 60/30fps on PS4. Just the way I took it.'

Of course OG ps4 games will be technically 'inferior' in some ways to the same game on running on the more powerful ps4 Neo. If it wasn't there would be no purpose to the Neo or Scorpio for that matter.
 
VincentMatts said:
The base games will be exactly what you would have gotten had neo not come out. Nothing changes there.
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Well, I sincerely hope you all are right about that and that I am wrong.

And perhaps anti-consumer isn't how I should how phrased my criticism, but let's not act like Neo is some benevolent gift from Sony to give people more choice. It exists to boost sales and to stop Microsoft from encroaching on Sony's market share.
 
This has got some real 32x feel to it....they are releasing a console at a new ps4 price which will only have a few titles that supposedly take advantage of the hardware and by the time the games library catches up to it you will have a competing console which probably be more powerful.....anyone seeing any alarm bells here???
 
Fafalada said:
Games haven't been written to be "clock synchronized" since at least PS1 era, so changing clock generally "just works". It's also something that've seen on Sony platforms for a bit over a decade(starting with PS2 70000 series), so it's not like Sony is in principle against it.
That said, even taking leaked documents at face value we have NO context for how Sony intents to position Neo in the market, and whether this has a place in their strategy.
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Hexa said:
From what I know this isn't the case with PS4. Issues with thread synchronization or something like that. I'll give you a source later.
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Thanks Guys.

I think I'll take a wait and see approach on this because I don't have a clue how all this works TBH...

I do seem to remember the Xbox 360 S chip(s) being deliberately inhibited for some reason but can't remember exactly why. I'm just mostly confused by the One S. If that had 4.2TF and a 30% CPU upclock we could see frame rates doubling with no patches yet on Neo games seem to need patches on older games.

Missing a lot of context I guess.

Prisoner said:
The OP even states there will be "considerable sacrifices" to new games on the old PS4.
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I think we have to be careful here. Those words were said to be from the Sony rep that is pitching a new additional system to a big games retailer.
 
captainraincoat said:
This has got some real 32x feel to it....they are releasing a console at a new ps4 price which will only have a few titles that supposedly take advantage of the hardware and by the time the games library catches up to it you will have a competing console which probably be more powerful.....anyone seeing any alarm bells here???
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No? It's not supposed to replace the current PS4. Look at it as a broadening of the audience they're able to sell to, by offering a low-priced SKU and a luxury product.
 
Anyone expecting a change in form/design? I mean the size may be bigger (or smaller). What about the shape of the console? ports placement etc..
Just like Xbox One S.
 
Mikey Jr. said:
I'm getting Neo day 1, and I hope when the PS5 arrives, there will be a Neo version of that one as well.

I will sell my base PS4.
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Yeah, I'm totally cool with there being a mid-gen Neo every generation, as long as there's a proper PS5/6/7/8 (aka exclusive games, proper new gen, backwards compatibility for ps4/5/6/7 titles, no forward compatibility holding games back).
NoFoX said:
So no Driveclub in 60Hz for me?
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Nope. The game itself is locked to 30fps so it won't automatically benefit. The studio handling the game was closed by Sony. And it wasn't that popular of a game unfortunately. So a patch is unlikely. Driveclub VR is the only place you'll have 60fps Driveclub.
 
Yeah, that sounds a lot like the end of me buying a console. Thanks, but you can keep it Sony.

I should probably invest in a good pc and play the shit version of the handful of Sony exclusives on my standard ps4.
 
Considering the upgrade to neo and trading in or selling my base PS4. Main question...how do I get my copy of P.T. Transferred to the neo? I don't want to lose P.T. But also don't want to keep a PS4 lying around if I have a neo.
 
Heckler456 said:
No? It's not supposed to replace the current PS4. Look at it as a broadening of the audience they're able to sell to, by offering a low-priced SKU and a luxury product.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what the 32x was...it effectively doubled the genisis consoles power but was let down by a customer confusing direction and a game library which never really matured as better hardware was released by its competitors

Sony should really stick with a simple ps4 slim redesign and work on a balls to the wall ps5
 
Prisoner said:
And perhaps anti-consumer isn't how I should how phrased my criticism, but let's not act like Neo is some benevolent gift from Sony to give people more choice. It exists to boost sales and to stop Microsoft from encroaching on Sony's market share.
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You're right, just because something is not a "benevolent gift" doesn't make it anti-consumer.

And of course it's to boost sales, push sales of 4k TVs, push UHD Bluray and compete with the Xbox One S. No one's saying it's not aimed at pushing sales.

captainraincoat said:
This has got some real 32x feel to it....they are releasing a console at a new ps4 price which will only have a few titles that supposedly take advantage of the hardware and by the time the games library catches up to it you will have a competing console which probably be more powerful.....anyone seeing any alarm bells here???
Click to expand...

Well, I mean, the thread started on March 30th, and plenty of people were expressing such thoughts. So, yes?

And the Sega analogy really doesn't fit.

captainraincoat said:
Thats exactly what the 32x was...it effectively doubled the genisis consoles power but was let down by a customer confusing direction and a game library which never really matured as better hardware was released by its competitors

Sony should really stick with a simple ps4 slim redesign and work on a balls to the wall ps5
Click to expand...

Hooo boy. In any case, a little late, seeing as the rumored announce is in a couple weeks. They really could have used this feedback back in March.
 
captainraincoat said:
This has got some real 32x feel to it....they are releasing a console at a new ps4 price which will only have a few titles that supposedly take advantage of the hardware and by the time the games library catches up to it you will have a competing console which probably be more powerful.....anyone seeing any alarm bells here???
Click to expand...

The 32X was a separate add-on upgrade (with its own power supply) that used at least four extra processors the Genesis / Megadrive alone did not have:

-Two Hitachi SH-2 CPUs each running @ 23 MHz.
-custom Sega VDP graphics chip
-new sound chip,
-more RAM and video memory

While few games took even close to full advantage of it Sega claimed the 32X was 40 times faster than a Genesis alone.

Even if 32X was, for the sake of argument, only 8 times faster than a stock Genesis, that's still a whole lot more than the increase from PS4 to PS4K / Neo, where the GPU is only ~ 2.3x more powerful and the CPU is ~ 1.3x faster.

A much better parallel can be drawn between PS4K / Neo and NEC's (Japan only) upgraded PC-Engine Super Grafx. It was a PC-Engine with the same CPU and double the graphics power from a second chip. It also wasn't an add-on, just a more powerful PC-Engine / TurboGrafx.
 
Psychotic_Mantis said:
Considering the upgrade to neo and trading in or selling my base PS4. Main question...how do I get my copy of P.T. Transferred to the neo? I don't want to lose P.T. But also don't want to keep a PS4 lying around if I have a neo.
Click to expand...

Use the backup option to backup your ps4 to a usb drive. Restore your usb backup onto your Neo. Et Voila.
 
Prisoner said:
Well, I sincerely hope you all are right about that and that I am wrong.

And perhaps anti-consumer isn't how I should how phrased my criticism, but let's not act like Neo is some benevolent gift from Sony to give people more choice. It exists to boost sales and to stop Microsoft from encroaching on Sony's market share.
Click to expand...

Whatever their reasons, better tech = bigger smiles from me.

There is really not much else, it's pretty simple.

I think at least some people appreciate better computers, better phones, tvs, cars, etc.
I don't see the problem here.

But of course you don't have to pay for the new version and instead wait for the next console after Neo/Scorpio. Everyone has their choice.
 
score01 said:
Use the backup option to backup your ps4 to a usb drive. Restore your usb backup onto your Neo. Et Voila.
Click to expand...

That's great, except that I have more than 500GB on my HDD, which means I have to buy a bigger drive to put in the Neo and a second bigger drive to use as a backup/restore drive.
 
spectator said:
That's great, except that I have more than 500GB on my HDD, which means I have to buy a bigger drive to put in the Neo and a second bigger drive to use as a backup/restore drive.
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Delete everything other than PT that's more than the space you have on hand for backup and redownload it if you don't want to buy a bigger back up drive. Also I doubt less than a TB will even be an option for the Neo.
 
Prisoner said:
Well, I sincerely hope you all are right about that and that I am wrong.

And perhaps anti-consumer isn't how I should how phrased my criticism, but let's not act like Neo is some benevolent gift from Sony to give people more choice. It exists to boost sales and to stop Microsoft from encroaching on Sony's market share.
Click to expand...

You come off as quite bitter, and I don't know why. In a way it is a gift from Sony - the gift of having more options. People whined and moaned during the later part of the last gen, complaining their PS3 and 360 weren't good enough. This gives an option to those people who will not be satisfied with the current gen as it gets long in the tooth.

As for stopping Microsoft, you say that as though Sony began Neo as a reaction to Microsofts mid-gen plans specifically, which we have no proof of.

And finally as for boosting sales, well duh. That's the goal of all businesses. You can't really use that as a negative against Sony here.
 
StrongBlackVine said:
Yep. This is ideal. No longer being stuck with the same hardware for 6 or 7 years on console.
Click to expand...

And it's weird because all my friends and family are so upset about this and feel jaded at Sony. No matter what analogy or articles I use, they still feel like they're getting screwed. Meanwhile I'm over here giddy at no longer having to wait 8 years for new hardware. Plus as others have said it's not like Sony is abandoning the PS4. I really don't see a negative here if this is the standard going forward.
 
cooldawn said:
That's just third-party. Sony first party studios will push it beyond what we think is possible. They always do.

Essentially, at full pelt, this thing should provide stunning visuals.
Click to expand...

Games still need to run on the OG PS4. There won't be a huge difference between 3rd and 1st party capabilities on the thing. It'll look better regardless.
 
LifEndz said:
And it's weird because all my friends and family are so upset about this and feel jaded at Sony. No matter what analogy or articles I use, they still feel like they're getting screwed. Meanwhile I'm over here giddy at no longer having to wait 8 years for new hardware. Plus as others have said it's not like Sony is abandoning the PS4. I really don't see a negative here if this is the standard going forward.
Click to expand...

Not being abandoned
 
AmyS said:
The 32X was a separate add-on upgrade (with its own power supply) that used at least four extra processors the Genesis / Megadrive alone did not have:

-Two Hitachi SH-2 CPUs @23 MHz each
-custom Sega VDP graphics chip
-new sound chip,
-more RAM

While few games took even close to full advantage of it Sega claimed the 32X was 40 times faster than a Genesis alone.

Even if 32X was, for the sake of arguement, only 8 times faster than a stock Genesis, that's still a whole lot more than the increase from PS4 to PS4K / Neo, where the GPU is ~ 2.3x more powerful and the CPU is ~ 1.3x faster.

A much better parallel can be drawn between PS4K / Neo and NEC's (Japan only) upgraded PC-Engine Super Grafx. It was a PC-Engine with the same CPU and double the graphics power from a second chip. It also wasn't an add-on, just a more powerful PC-Engine / TurboGrafx.
Click to expand...

Was thinking more mainstream but yes thats a good comparison....what the main danger factor is how they try and sell this thing to consumers and not piss off existing ps4 owners
 
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