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[Balmung421]

Thread is hard to keep up with, but where did the Q12017 come from? Don't see it in the OP. Am I blind?

 

[cyberheater]

I don't believe the 2x gpu, And I definitely don't believe a Q1 2017 release date if any such annocuemnt would be made at E3.

Yes. I agree. Considering what's in the PS4. 2x GPU doesn't seem much.

 

[Mokujin]

So come Q1 2017 about 40 million outdated ps4s getting shitty ports?

So glad I was still waiting, but 2 weeks ago I was very close to getting one.

Spoiler

Still waiting for E3 to know what's really going on, so many interesting things this year it seems.

 

[ozz ex machina]

You are delusional if you don't understand why this news is upsetting to some.

And wtf at consoles performing poorly this gen? They are out pacing their last gen counterparts launch aligned and isn't the PS4 currently pacing with the PS2 or something? The console market doesn't need a "shot in the arm", and even if it did I would not classify this as such.

Why would I care about console sales? I care about the performance and quality of my games. PC didn't even get console games in that gen, so it's actually an irrelevant point.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Wow, this is crazy.

I wonder if PS4 sales will tank between now and the PS4K release.

 

[Gurnlei]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

I don't see how you're missing the issue tbh.

This is a first for PlayStation (releasing a stronger version of the system in the same gen). People bought a PS4 expecting to have it play games released on the platform the best a PS4 could, but this PS4K coming 3 years after launch goes against that expectation. We're unsure just how good the original PS4 will be playing games later on once more and more people buy PS4K if it takes off too.

If they offered the stronger option at launch it wouldn't be such a disappointment for me. But as it is I can't help but feel just that.

 

[Pestilence11]

2x is not massive enough to be a new generation. We've had more than 2x the differences between hardware in the same generation (xbox vs ps2).

A new gen Playstation would be something that is 7-8 times more powerful, I mean even with the low speced modestly made PS4 we had that much of a performance difference between the PS3 and PS4.

This is what worries me the most. We may need 2 or 3 iterations (potentially $399 x 2/3) before we're seeing jumps in power like we used to get generation to generation.

 

[LukasTaves]

That bit about dev support confirms what I though.

It seems sony isn't ready yet from a development standpoint to offer a IDE completely decoupled from the hardware, so they will go with a similar architecture to make it easier to developers, but essentially they are developing for two different systems.

It will be interesting to see where they go from there. That buys them some time so they can make their development platform work on anywhere so by the time Ps5 hits they still can have back and forwards compatibility even if ps5 is a huge departure architecture wise.

 

[RipperGrim]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here



so how it works then. insiders already said og ps4 will be fine. sony is not stupid.

I justy said their console will be outdated how are you not getting this?

 

[Marty Chinn]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

This is an assumption that the same "lazy" developers who release 0 day patches, ship with bugs that people can't imagine how they got into the final release, and still have performance issues are magically going to optimize for both targets so that each target gets the best possible game respectively?

 

[KurtSloane]

If Sony thinks they can actually do this and get away with it, they've lost their minds. This isn't how Consoles are supposed to work. It's an outright betrayal of the 40+ million who already bought the Console, and it will badly split the user base. Sony and PlayStation are done in the Console space if any of of this turns out to be true, and I'm done with them period. This is just disgusting to me.

lol, oh dear, the drama lamas are out in force.


This is like the mobile market, only on a less frequent. As others have said this is about the console market not having to start from 0 with each new cycle.


Also, the hardware cycle is the last thing that has not advanced in the market.

 

[Trago]

So what would be the point of a PS5 in the traditional console sense of iterative hardware is a thing?

 

[EatinOlives]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

You're making a completely baseless assumption that the PS4 games will run "fine", and the PS4K games will run "better".

As opposed to the very real alternative, that PS4K games will run "fine" and PS4 games will run "bad". And before you say this doesn't happen, do check out stuff like Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS, where the game was "fine" on new 3DS but runs like complete garbage on regular 3DS.

 

[MrHoot]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

But that's with the expectation that games on the ps4k will be 60fps in the first place. You're giving devs a lot of credit, like they'll suddenly be the best at optimization because it's a powerful machine. Just like people were saying that the ps4 would be the era of 60fps games on consoles.

If this leak is accurate, the power gap is not minor, it's in fact quite significant and it's already implied in the OP that there would quite significant downgrades from ps4k to ps4. Considering how we barely get optimized multiplatform games NOW, what makes you think the difference will be so minor between ps4 and ps4k, or that it will just be a FPS difference. I really don't buy it. Not with the currrent mindset, where still major companies like Warner Bros. or Bethesda still have a lot of issues now.

The fear of most is that the ps4k will become the norm for "acceptable" and not good, and the ps4 will barely get it running after a while. Considering stuff happening right now, this is a way more likely alternative than the perfect utopia some seem to have

 

[Art Vandilay]

It will be interesting to see the order of presentations at E3. How is that decided anyway?

 

[Parfait]

I don't understand the outrage tbh. In my view this is like getting pissed off that the Google Nexus 5x is released after I bought my Nexus 5 a year ago. Sure I get that this is something new in the game console space but it isn't exactly a new concept for consumer electronics. My Nexus 5 still works fine and runs all of the apps and games I could run on a Nexus 5x. Eventually I'll upgrade my Nexus 5 to the 5x or something better.

It's not uncommon for a large portion of GAF to react negatively to any sort of news or change in the video game industry but this time it just seems particularly silly.

You don't understand but then you try to cite an example using android,

This is basically Sony's treatise on 'How to take a lead then fuck it up.'

Even though I held off on buying a PS4 until now, it feels dumb to buy into one now, and I really, REALLY want to with Star Ocean V coming out so soon. The fact that apparently future games will run worse on the PS4 is basically sealing this thing 20 feet under.

It just feels so dumb. I can't go around dropping hundreds of bucks on a new console, I have to pick and choose my fights here. And I don't know what I'm really going to do until there's more info on how badly these 'new' games run on a ps4.

I shouldn't care because I don't have a PS4 yet, but jeez, the shit people must be going through when they're low on dosh and have one already...

 

[geordiemp]

Yes. I agree. Considering what's in the PS4. 2x GPU doesn't seem much.

Only makes sense if the move to 14 m (half the damn size) means they have to make a smaller APU due to yields (as the 14 nm is new and yields would be too costly for a big APU).

Just guessing.

2017 does not make sense unless thats when production ramps for 14 nm, but I have no idea and thought it was this year ?

 

[Khayam]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

It will work for Uncharted. It won't work for the majority of others games. A lot of AAAs already run like shit on the PS4s because they don't take the time to optimise (Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed).

What makes you think that they'll run just as well when the same resources will be divided between two consoles ?

 

[KurtSloane]

This is an assumption that the same "lazy" developers who release 0 day patches, ship with bugs that people can't imagine how they got into the final release, and still have performance issues are magically going to optimize for both targets so that each target gets the best possible game respectively?

They can do it on the PC, have done for decades.

Do keep up people.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

I dont think so.
People that could buy a PS4 for US300 will wait to have the "new console".
This is not smartphones market like some are trying to imply.
Consoles are well known for everybody from the regular user to the enthusiastics as machine of "generations".
And they are going to have A LOT of work trying to explain for everybody that after decades this has changed.
Its not imposible, Im not saying that.
But a bad announcement can kill both the OG PS4 and the 4k in a row.

First, as some people pointed out... console makers have to accommodate to two different groups of people: the consumers and the devs. You cannot satisfy one without deceiving the other. By breaking the habits of console generation as we know them, it would make the transition to brand new generation much smoother for the console makers and the game publishers (Ubisoft, EA, Activision, 2K, etc), which in return could help normalize the budgets as the consoles evolves. I am really not in for a yearly release of new consoles and clearly the video games consoles market is not as open as the cellphone market. Depending of the company you go with, you can get certain phones for *free depending of your contract, which is not possible with games consoles.

Second... sure it would be hard to justify. Although, if they make the message clear that the new systems will only provide better performances for the same games, the average consumer could be open to the idea of these new systems' arrival (except for Nintendo, they are already running late in the console race but can still catch up... hopefully).

Last of all... sure. The most important part here will be to have the proper wording. Both SCE and MS need to make sure that people don't feel left out of the curve and that the new systems would only improve the already "great" experience with their current systems (for early adopters).

P.S. I always wondered, did people react like this when MS announced the Xbox One Elite?

 

[vpance]

The thing is I already game on PC. The only reason I have consoles at this point is that certain games still do not come out on PC, some very high profile. And some exclusive like Bloodborne.

It's only bad when one of the only justification for consoles even existing today is slightly more convenience and holding exclusives hostage. But when you start to now take out the former while keeping the latter, at a higher price point, it's really ticking me off

I game on PC too, but basically only for exclusive strategy games.

Honestly if I had more sense than money and PC was my main gaming platform I'd switch to only buying mid gen slim refreshed consoles if I really had to play their exclusives.

 

[endlessflood]

In the world where the PS4K does not exist:

Games are released for OG PS4, but they're highly downgraded versions of PC games, or if they're exclusives they're downgraded from the original assets / vision in order to optimise the game and get it to run on weak hardware with a poor CPU.

In the world where the PS4K exists:

Games are released for OG PS4, but they're highly downgraded versions of PC games, or if they're exclusives they're downgraded from the original assets / vision in order to optimise the game and get it to run on weak hardware with a poor CPU, and also you also have a '4k version' for the PS4k that gets closer to that original spec / PC version.

...so what's the problem here? If you're just a PS4 owner nothing has really changed for you. You're getting the same games.

What happens for online gaming? One player is playing with a substantially better image quality or framerate than his opponents on what was previously a completely level platform.

 

[Welfare]

I justy said their console will be outdated how are you not getting this?

Who honestly gives a shit. It was outdated by PC's at launch and will be outdated when the next gen comes. Literally nothing changes except your consoles placement in "power level" speak.

 

[Jimrpg]

GPU Thats twice as powerful as the ps4 is still only a GTX 960 level of performance and at best a GTX 970 (which is three times as powerful as a PS4).

With Pascal round the corner PCs are still going to trounce it by a significant margin. I think that's kind of important, as it still makes PCs the best place to play third party games.

Actually now that I think about it, they really should put out a Ps4k at a much higher price, like $599, $699 with a GTX 1070ish card inside. You would still have the regular PS4 at $200-300 for the people that don't want to buy the PS4k and it would still play all the games but at a lower resolution/settings.

 

[NullPointer]

nope pretty serious.
there isnt one single reason for this outrage.

Yep. Just nearly 90 pages of people agreeing with each other about how great this is.

 

[Dad]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here

I'm not upset that people will be playing 60fps while I'm at 30fps. I'm worried that games on the base system will be sub 30fps unoptimized garbage while all the developer's efforts are pouring into the PS4K version. New 3DS has a handful of titles that work this way with some pretty mixed results.

Monster Hunter 4 is a competent example. The regular version runs at pretty solid 30fps, while it gets a bump in framerate and textures while running on New 3DS.

Hyrule Warriors is an incompetent example. It runs sort of okay on New 3DS, but it's deplorable on the original system.

I don't have much faith outside of maybe first party offerings to make games well optimized for the original system.

 

[JBwB]

Give me a price so I can start putting money away for it!

I bought a PS4 a week ago for some of the big hitters coming out this year.
Now that the PS4K is pretty much confirmed I'll definitely sell my PS4 as soon as it comes out.

 

[Blackage]

All I want is solid state drive support.

 

[Rflagg]

People suddenly glamouring 60fps.
What happened to the '30fps is fine, 60fps is too gamey' folks?

30 fps is fine imho this does not change that

I have never seen anyone say 60 fps is too gamey, other than people that mocking those that can enjoy 30 fps gaming.

 

[BinaryBear07]

I am not buying any of it. This is fake.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

So damn near 4 TF? That's pretty wild.

 

[Namikaze]

I'm still down with console gaming because of exclusives like Uncharted, all of Nintendo's stuff etc. I just won't ever buy another Sony console at launch and the same goes for Nintendo depending on the NX reveal.

 

[KiraXD]

I don't see how you're missing the issue tbh.

This is a first for PlayStation (releasing a stronger version of the system in the same gen). People bought a PS4 expecting to have it play games released on the platform the best a PS4 could, but this PS4K coming 3 years after launch goes against that expectation.

If they offered the stronger option at launch it wouldn't be such a disappointment for me. But as it is I can't help but feel just that.

exactly... if i had known a more powerful PS4 was coming... i would have waited for the better one... knowing that the PS4 games wont be running the best on my console sucks. the whole point of consoles is that i know the games are optimized as much as possible for the current gen... but now... the games arent optimized for mine... theyll be optimized for PS4k and i dont get the best console gaming experience. If i can trade my current console in (no receipt any more) for a direct upgrade for free... great. otherwise... i got screwed. i want the best PS4 games... i wont have that. I dont want to have the PS3 Shadow of Mordor syndrome if a new PS4 comes out.

 

[Art Vandilay]

First, as some people pointed out... console makers have to accommodate to two different groups of people: the consumers and the devs. You cannot satisfy one without deceiving the other. By breaking the habits of console generation as we know them, it would make the transition to brand new generation much smoother for the console makers and the game publishers (Ubisoft, EA, Activision, 2K, etc), which in return could help normalize the budgets as the consoles evolves. I am really not in for a yearly release of new consoles and clearly the video games consoles market is not as open as the cellphone market. Depending of the company you go with, you can get certain phones for *free depending of your contract, which is not possible with games consoles.

Second... sure it would be hard to justify. Although, if they make the message clear that the new systems will only provide better performances for the same games, the average consumer could be open to the idea of these new systems' arrival (except for Nintendo, they are already running late in the console race but can still catch up... hopefully).

Last of all... sure. The most important part here will be to have the proper wording. Both SCE and MS need to make sure that people don't feel left out of the curve and that the new systems would only improve the already "great" experience with their current systems (for early adopters).

P.S. I always wondered, did people react like this when MS announced the Xbox One Elite?

The Xbox One Elite is very different from what the PS4K is rumored to be. It was just an Xbox One with a matte finish, 1TB hard drive and the elite controller.

 

[120v]

Why are they branding it this way and how is it different from being a PS5? N3DS had a small spec bump so that made sense but this GPU is apparently twice as strong.

imo it's basically to recreate the scenario you saw at the beginning of this gen, where devs supported both gens well into now. this "fixes" the problem of segmenting markets (well, segmenting it too much, anyway) while not being held back by rapidly aging hardware (i'm guessing when it comes time for stuff like elder scrolls 6, witcher 4, ect, you'll start seeing them as PS4K exclusives, and most will have upgraded by then anyway)

 

[dmr87]

You won't get any "AAA" games rendered in 4k with "2x the GPU power" and a "new CPU", highly doubt it. You need some serious hardware, like a dedicated ~$650 GPU alone.

But I welcome this, bring it on.

 

[MUnited83]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here



so how it works then. insiders already said og ps4 will be fine. sony is not stupid.

What has Sony and insiders to do with it? Sony hasnt controlled shit on their platform and several games have terrible performance already. This is only about to get worse. "Sony is not stupid" is a empty argument that completely ignores reality.

 

[Breakage]

It must be galling to be a current PS4 owner knowing this is on the horizon - I would be pissed off if I owned a PS4 right now.

The non-4k model will be seen as the inferior system by Sony and devs alike.

 

[kinggroin]

you will still play the games you were supposed to play nothing will change. you will u4 1080p 30fps and people with ps4k will run at 60fps. im not seeing the issue here



so how it works then. insiders already said og ps4 will be fine. sony is not stupid.

Let me tell you something son. No matter if its ACTUALLY fine or not, the fact that suspicion is raised by the community, means every single dual-release will have people going, "You KNOW this game would have run better if it was only for PS4".

You can't win this battle.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

No trade in program?

Come on, Sony.

Those rumored systems are not even announced and you are already asking for a trade-in program. As of now, based on the OP's info, they don't have any planned right now, but... could totally happen a few days or weeks after they get officially announced. Take into account those are for now... rumored specs and systems whether it's the PS4K and XB1.5

 

[Marty Chinn]

They can do it on the PC, have done for decades.

Do keep up people.

Batman Arkham Knight turned out great!

 

[Khayam]

I don't understand the outrage tbh. In my view this is like getting pissed off that the Google Nexus 5x is released after I bought my Nexus 5 a year ago. Sure I get that this is something new in the game console space but it isn't exactly a new concept for consumer electronics. My Nexus 5 still works fine and runs all of the apps and games I could run on a Nexus 5x. Eventually I'll upgrade my Nexus 5 to the 5x or something better.

It's not uncommon for a large portion of GAF to react negatively to any sort of news or change in the video game industry but this time it just seems particularly silly.

There you go :

For the sake of everything that is holy, STOP comparing this to iPhones.

Phones are for calling and texting and going on the internet. They are not made for resource intensive applications, the features are just there : features. They are an accessory to the more core usage.

Here we are talking about a completely different piece of equipment. You buy it with the promise that for the next N years, devs will do their best to optimise their games on his machine (because they have no choice, the hardware is fixed and the consumer doesn't have a choice). There is no such promise that comes when buying an iPhone. You buy it to make phone calls, send textsn browsing the web and playing with some apps. They don't promise you anything about the future apps because they are not the main point.

And with a PS4.5, that promise is violated.

You still get 99% of the full app experience on an iPhone 6 even if there is an 6s. The new things are gadget stuff that you might care about but the point is you have access to 99% of the app experience : 99% of the apps work just as well on one or the other.

It's not true for consoles. 99% of the games won't work as well on the PS4 and the PS4.5. If they did, the 4.5 would barely have a reason to exist.

 

[usp84]

People suddenly glamouring 60fps.
What happened to the '30fps is fine, 60fps is too gamey' folks?

I hate these kind of posts.Not everyone think the same way you know.

 

[metalslimer]

What happens for online gaming? One player is playing with a substantially better image quality or framerate than his opponents on what was previously a completely level platform.

I don't know what happens with PC online gaming?

 

[geordiemp]

I'm not upset that people will be playing 60fps while I'm at 30fps. I'm worried that games on the base system will be sup 30fps unoptimized garbage while all the developer's efforts are pouring into the PS4K version. New 3DS has a handful of titles that work this way with some pretty mixed results.

Monster Hunter 4 is a competent example. The regular version runs at pretty solid 30fps, while it gets a bump in framerate and textures while running on New 3DS.

Hyrule Warriors is an incompetent example. It runs sort of okay on New 3DS, but it's deplorable on the original system.

I don't have much faith outside of maybe first party offerings to make games well optimized for the original system.

Thats Nintendo thought, they play by their own rules. I Cant imagine a 20 FPS Ps4 game being received or selling well to the 60-70 milliion Ps4 / Xb1 owners. It would die.

What happens for online gaming? One player is playing with a substantially better image quality or framerate than his opponents on what was previously a completely level platform.

Well, most online PVP is 60 anyway on Ps4, their are not many 30 FPS PVP shooters I can think of except Destiny. Image quality - yeah I suppose those 1080p60 BF4 players might enjoy a better view than the 900p60 players...but some game on 24 inch Tv's some of 55 inch so.....

At least its not like PC, with that guy running the game at 144 hz using sli Titan X with a 3 ms gaming monitor and a mouse with macros for pixel perfect head shots.

 

[wrowa]

You're making a completely baseless assumption that the PS4 games will run "fine", and the PS4K games will run "better".

As opposed to the very real alternative, that PS4K games will run "fine" and PS4 games will run "bad". And before you say this doesn't happen, do check out stuff like Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS, where the game was "fine" on new 3DS but runs like complete garbage on regular 3DS.

Hyrule Warriors is also a downport of a Wii U game, which makes it a pretty special case.

Generally speaking, what the poster you quoted said holds true. Developers won't want to pass on a userbase of ~45 million existing PS4 users, so you can be pretty confident that the standard PS4 will remain the focus for the vast, vast majority of developers. Everything else just wouldn't make sense from a business point of view.

Of course, performance on the old PS4 might become worse than it is now, but games degrading in IQ/FPS also happened on PS3 and 360 when developers tried to achieve "better graphics" late into the generation.

 

[jony_m]

It will be interesting to see the order of presentations at E3. How is that decided anyway?

Aren't the press conference slots also set by the ESA?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Those rumored systems are not even announced and you are already asking for a trade-in program. As of now, based on the OP's info, they don't have any planned right now, but... could totally happen a few days or weeks after they get officially announced. Take into account those are for now... rumored specs and systems whether it's the PS4K and XB1.5

I literally just traded in my PS4 and games right now since I hardly use it and I can wait to play this year's releases. I got 200 for the system alone. I urge others who are in the same position to do the same because it's probably the best value you're going to get. You can get one brand new for 349 so 200 is a fair value.

Unless the trade in program cuts the price of the new system in half, this is as good as it gets.

 

[Raylan]

It will be interesting to see the order of presentations at E3. How is that decided anyway?

If the PS4K launches in Q1 2017, expect a PSX reveal.

 

[DigSCCP]

You're making a completely baseless assumption that the PS4 games will run "fine", and the PS4K games will run "better".

As opposed to the very real alternative, that PS4K games will run "fine" and PS4 games will run "bad". And before you say this doesn't happen, do check out stuff like Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS, where the game was "fine" on new 3DS but runs like complete garbage on regular 3DS.

Exactly.
And its stated on the OP: "OG PS4 will run this games with sacrifices".
When the right thing should be "PS4K will run this games with benefits".
And honestly those dreaming with 60 FPS still dont get it this is not what devs aim on consoles.
And they probably wont do it on PS4k, specially cuz they need to show visual improvements to make this whole thing even pausible.