PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
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Aztechnology
Member
jeff_rigby
Banned
True Audio is a Xtensa HiFi DSP in the PS4 confirmed by Sony.. Xtensa processsors MUST be on a ARM bus. There is no ARM IP memory controller for GDDR5 => there is no ARM bus in the APU. The Marvell chip is custom to Sony's specs and contains an ARM bus with it's own 256 MB of memory. => The Xtensa processors are in Southbridge.
Beyond that the Media features require a TEE and AMD uses Trustzone as does the XB1 and Sony has said the Southbridge contains a Trustzone processor. => Southbridge with it's 256MB is the Media TEE.
vpance
Member
Jeff and OnQ are more like Stick and Daredevil.
Imagine if all that stacked dGPU speculation, patent digging and AMD slides from before this gen started was actually pointing to the mid gen refreshes. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 2.5D interposer with HBM and double GPUs for this.
Imagine if all that stacked dGPU speculation, patent digging and AMD slides from before this gen started was actually pointing to the mid gen refreshes. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 2.5D interposer with HBM and double GPUs for this.
No the leap was minimal... Hell the RSX was significantly dated when ps3 dropped. The bluray cost a ton and the cell processor r+d is what skyrocketed the cost. The powers difference between 360 v. Ps3 was minimal. Some even argued 360 was more powerful.
How would it know that though? Are we expecting Sony to keep a running database of all TV's based on EDID?
I'm not saying that a GPU from Cadence can or will rendering 3/4 of a 4K PS4 game in fact I haven't even mentioned Candence in this thread besides replying to you saying that I don't know what a GPU is or whatever you was saying but like I said in that response it can be used for 3D graphics for a STB or Blu-ray player & so on
http://ip.cadence.com/applications/home-entertainment/dvd-blu-ray-disc#video-lower
I would kill for a Playstation that was capable of playing my old Playstation, Playstation 2, and Playstation 3 games, throw in a UMD adapter for good measure to play my PSP games.
This would be far more exciting than 4k anything or improved performance. Screw software emulation too. Give me one Playstation to play them all.
This would be far more exciting than 4k anything or improved performance. Screw software emulation too. Give me one Playstation to play them all.
I don't want to speak for monegames, but I think you're taking the context of that last part wrong.
If you look back, the PS3 release was actually delayed from its target date. By the time the delay of blue laser diodes and programmable HDMI Tx chipsets from Silicon Image to support Kutaragi's decision to utilize BD for games and movies was known, they were already too far along to make major spec changes. RSX was already locked other than minor stuff like clocks. So it's actually problematic to strictly compare RSX to PC GPUs upon release.
Even with that in mind though, RSX and Xenos were still further up the food chain relative to PC parts than the PS4 and XBone's GPU's upon release. And I think that's what monegames was getting at.
Also you seem to be strictly considering PS3 versus 360 only in terms of GPU. They are systems, and that includes a lot of different costs associated with them. The 360 had a weaker CPU and no BD. But even so, let's not forget that the 360 was being sold at a loss as well. And that was even with them cutting corners in terms of thermal design and parts. They ended up having to pay that back later due to the RRoD fiasco.
Point being ... both of the previous consoles cost a lot more than the current gen to manufacture, and similarly both of them were higher end relative to PC's upon release than the current gen. So if you think last gen's leap was minimal, what do you consider this gen's leap?
Allow me to recap:
Regardless of if you meant the PowerVR GPUs or the Xtensa processors, you are still at least an order of magnitude off power requirements.
I would expect standard PS4 to get slim revision before or at the same time PS4K hits.
So they can lower the price to $249 for instance and dont lose any money plus offer this at $399.
Omnistalgic
Member
WhoaHere is a game called Everspace that is planned for VR.
This game would need to be graphically paired down to run at 30fps on Xbox one or PS4. Without serious image quality reductions where the game would not longer resemble the parent game graphically it would not be possible to play that on PSVR at a targeted 60fps reprojection to 120.
???? What does ps3 vs 360 have to do with generational leaps in power? I was stating we wouldn't see jumps as large as ps3 from ps2. It was just too costly for both ms and sony. Especially after seeing both profit or almost profit on their consoles out the gate. Its smarter for both to move to creating ecosystems similar to ios with multiple devices.
Negotiator
Banned
Not really.
RSX was the equivalent of 7600 GT (8 ROPs, 128-bit GDDR3 bus), not 7800 GTX (16 ROPs, 256-bit GDDR3 bus) as many people thought. That's why most PS3 games were 720p. 7800 GTX could handle 900p. Architecturally-wise it was already obsolete (separate pixel/vertex shader pipelines), since GeForce 8 came out a couple of days before the PS3 was released.
Xenos wasn't so powerful either (hence the 720p norm), it's just that it offered architectural improvements (unified shaders) that did not exist in the PC space back then.
I guess the modern equivalent of architectural improvements is Cerny's suggestion to increase the ACEs/queues from 2/16 to 8/64 for fine-grain GPGPU compute tasks, along with some other improvements (volatile bit tag, dedicated CPU-GPU 20GB/s bus). PCs didn't have have this back in 2012 (that's when the APU design was finalized). They released it as part of the GCN 1.1 refresh.
And there's also this:
ps: Performance-wise the PS1 -> PS2 leap was bigger than the PS2 -> PS3 one. Law of diminishing returns and all that.
I started talking about the DPU over 2 years ago that's what I was saying when I said he was talking about something I already told them about ,I wasn't talking about in this thread.
So you were just as Looney Tunes then too huh? You ever hang out with MisterX? How's he doing these days?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think that's the real impetus behind bumping the performance mid-generation, keeping the visual fidelity at PS4 levels (or slightly above) without sacrificing and dropping to PS3.5 levels for the remainder of the generation.
What the hell does talking about a DPU have to do with being looney? the DPU is in PS4 & Xbox One you're the one who is looney & don't know anything.
Imagine a screenplay based on this. I like to call it "An imagining of lives utterly unrelated to reality" or some shit.
JOHN, HARRY and ALICE sitting in the slums of SIE HQ meeting rooms.
JOHN - NX is coming out, rumoured power similar to current gen and we're losing our most powerful console bullet point. Microsoft are moving on their.... plans (snigger) and look likely to put pressure on us in the US (giggle). Do we need to do anything else with our marketing?
ALICE - Nothing extra needed in the west. Possibly in Japan as Nintendo launches soon and 3rd parties are getting worried about the market.
JOHN - Well that 4k slim update is happening, we could update specs if Alan is worried about the timing.
HARRY - OK, get a design run done. Check thermals and costing. Run a prototype through production partners.
JOHN - On it.
John runs out of the room. Alice looks at Harry with lust in her eyes. Harry after all is devastatingly handsome.
John returns.
JOHN - Design done. Prototype done. Looks and runs sweet. Cost still too high though.
HARRY - True. Let's check production partner for ways to cut costs.
KYLE at Fab - Fuck no. You done. I have kids and share portfolio to feed. Cost savings must come from you.
ALICE - Don't make me go back to that cheap coffee again.
HARRY - *grimace* Ok, how about dev support?
GREG TWOFACE - *shrug* Your toolkits are good. You sell it, we'll make shit on it.
HARRY - Hmm, still not sure. Market may or may not react well. Check retail partners.
JOHN - what do we tell them? They'll run straight to Phil due to their arrangements in place.
ALICE - Tell them the truth. After all they have proven themselves trustworthy in the past.
*Pause*
HARRY, JOHN and ALICE burst out laughing.
HARRY mentally notes that Alice looks kinda hot in that power suit.
Later that day.
ALICE to a few weary faces, worn down after trying to swindle cash anyway they can from customers.
ALICE -... has improved specs, two gpus, upgraded CPU, UHD BD and will maintain the strongest console marketing point. And it outputs at 4k. Or is that uprenders? Never mind...who gives a shit? So, how does that sound?
Fade to black.
JOHN, HARRY and ALICE sitting in the slums of SIE HQ meeting rooms.
JOHN - NX is coming out, rumoured power similar to current gen and we're losing our most powerful console bullet point. Microsoft are moving on their.... plans (snigger) and look likely to put pressure on us in the US (giggle). Do we need to do anything else with our marketing?
ALICE - Nothing extra needed in the west. Possibly in Japan as Nintendo launches soon and 3rd parties are getting worried about the market.
JOHN - Well that 4k slim update is happening, we could update specs if Alan is worried about the timing.
HARRY - OK, get a design run done. Check thermals and costing. Run a prototype through production partners.
JOHN - On it.
John runs out of the room. Alice looks at Harry with lust in her eyes. Harry after all is devastatingly handsome.
John returns.
JOHN - Design done. Prototype done. Looks and runs sweet. Cost still too high though.
HARRY - True. Let's check production partner for ways to cut costs.
KYLE at Fab - Fuck no. You done. I have kids and share portfolio to feed. Cost savings must come from you.
ALICE - Don't make me go back to that cheap coffee again.
HARRY - *grimace* Ok, how about dev support?
GREG TWOFACE - *shrug* Your toolkits are good. You sell it, we'll make shit on it.
HARRY - Hmm, still not sure. Market may or may not react well. Check retail partners.
JOHN - what do we tell them? They'll run straight to Phil due to their arrangements in place.
ALICE - Tell them the truth. After all they have proven themselves trustworthy in the past.
*Pause*
HARRY, JOHN and ALICE burst out laughing.
HARRY mentally notes that Alice looks kinda hot in that power suit.
Later that day.
ALICE to a few weary faces, worn down after trying to swindle cash anyway they can from customers.
ALICE -... has improved specs, two gpus, upgraded CPU, UHD BD and will maintain the strongest console marketing point. And it outputs at 4k. Or is that uprenders? Never mind...who gives a shit? So, how does that sound?
Fade to black.
Ps3.5? Nah it would have to go further down than that.
Nightengale
Member
Where's the post credits scene of Cerny and Marks walking past each other throwing each other a knowing smirk as the camera pans to the folders they both are carrying titled Project V and Project V2 respectively? 
Or that's the lie she told them to keep them from telling Phil the real specs
I want to ask, you seemed critical of MS when Phil said they had plans for incremental upgrades, but in the case of PS4K you seem supportive of the idea. So I'm wondering if you're able to say if something's different or changed?
I also missed the secret folder "mistakenly" left on the train to throw off the encroaching Kotakus.Where's the post credits scene of Cerny and Marks walking past each other throwing each other a knowing smirk as the camera pans to the folders they both are carrying titled Project V and Project V2 respectively?
Then add some context to your posts, and I mean more than a pic of a patent and an AMD slide. Use your English to elaborate because right now your failing to communicate basic ideas (leading to constant backtracking), let alone the complex intricacies of the actual topic of discussion.
When it comes to meeting the goal of a native 4k render a DPU of any form is a drop of water in the ocean.
With that said would you please kindly elaborate more extensively in your own Engilsh on what you expect on performance and characteristics of the chipsets that would allow for native 4k rendering at a price and power envelope that would be reasonable to consumers in the timeframes being discussed.
Mind. Games.
E3 is gonna be fun. Or is it?
I haven't said anything about the DPU rendering in 4K I talked about a 2nd GPU & Jeff was talking about the DPU, I pointed out that it was something that I had told people about before but just like now no one listens & try to act as if I'm talking crazy.
Where's the post credits scene of Cerny and Marks walking past each other throwing each other a knowing smirk as the camera pans to the folders they both are carrying titled Project V and Project V2 respectively?
V1 and V2 are probably poorly chosen project names
That's the question on my mind.
Also, is there going to be a second act where Greg complains about the PS4k being a pain in the ass?
Why wouldn't he care?
Not critical at all. I love those guys. They always have great ideas about growing the industry while nurturing everyone in it.
ninjablade
Banned
where was this confirmed?
Nowhere
In fact I'm surprised that this thread is still going after the DF thread
ninjablade
Banned
Yea after the DF thread this looks like it might not happen.
Wishmaster92
Member
It's what i thought of too
Love the sarcasm!
I'm curious to see what the approach is because I remember him mentioning that several major publishers wouldn't be on board with it due to it screwing up their development timelines. If they have found a way around that, it'll be great to see. I like the idea of upgraded hardware but I don't want a hardship on devs.
Yo that shade. Ahaaa
Here is a game called Everspace that is planned for VR.
This game would need to be graphically paired down to run at 30fps on Xbox one or PS4. Without serious image quality reductions where the game would not longer resemble the parent game graphically it would not be possible to play that on PSVR at a targeted 60fps reprojection to 120.
Whoa...this game on PSVR, looking as good as this, would make it easier for me to buy a PS4K.
How is that talking crazy? it could be untextured pixels with other stuff not being rendered by the weaker GPU then added in the final output. or something like that
Here is a game called Everspace that is planned for VR.
This game would need to be graphically paired down to run at 30fps on Xbox one or PS4. Without serious image quality reductions where the game would not longer resemble the parent game graphically it would not be possible to play that on PSVR at a targeted 60fps reprojection to 120.
Yeah if that's in game then I'm in for ps4k and psvr. Sign me up right now and I never thought I'd want console VR.