Crimson_Gold
Member
Where the gopher appears, there be no prairie shit. It's coming my friend
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Where the gopher appears, there be no prairie shit. It's coming my friend
I have explained everything that I have posted I don't have to explain my stance on someone else posting false information.
Hexa
Member
I mean you can think you explained whatever you want, but if no one understands what the hell you're talking about you really didn't explain anything at all.
Honestly, I just think you're a troll fucking with people but whatever. :/
Hexa
Member
If not sure if Gopher meant that as a leak or just as sarcasm considering his other sarcastic posts and it being titled "An imagining of lives utterly unrelated to reality".
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN!?
Being a loss leader with consoles going iterative doesn't make any sense though as there'll be even less time to make profit on games. So that sound suspect.
I'm being a bit sarcastic myself hehe
CosmicQueso
Member
I'm not going to pretend to understand more than a small fraction of what you post, but I get the passion and get the impression you have some idea of what you're talking about.
But this line was in plain old English, so I did understand it. I'm quite proud, actually.
In any case, is your hypothesis that all of this is surrounding firmware upgrades only, and that no new hardware models will be released?
mitchman
Gold Member
Do you have a link to this statement? To be fair, in 2013, the UHD Blu-ray standard was nowhere near being standardized, so it's having HEVC support doesn't mean it handles all the other requirements.
"A Sony rep" can be misinformed or misunderstand the question. Link to video or quote?
This seems a bit thin to put much value into.
As for the PS4k, I'm on the positive side of the fence, can't wait and I'll definitely get it.
Adam Tyner
Member
Here's one recap. ...and, yeah, like you said, that was a couple of years before the spec was complete.
potatohead
Member
Don't we already know that PS4 can support 4K media?
It's just that it only goes up to 2160p24, rather than 2160p60.
Pretty sure that's what it was based on the HDMI specs.
It's just that it only goes up to 2160p24, rather than 2160p60.
Pretty sure that's what it was based on the HDMI specs.
jeff_rigby
Banned
No, I actually expect an iteration just not this year. Next year maybe because a true 4K console that plays games is about 4-5 years out and there needs to be some model to improve rendering to allow a 1080P VR goggle. 4K media is not the big draw, it's the delivery mechanisms that are coming that support 4K but used for 1080P and lower resolutions. 4K Antenna TV is going to be big.
If we're talking about the same GT process...a different PS3 rendered a specific corner of the screen...then the 3 renders were laid next to each other to create the final displayed image...
My understanding of the Sony process shown in the patent, is that it is taking the precioua 3 frames, and the new frame (whole screen, not a corner of the screen), then by shifting the pixels around, and adding some secret sauce...creating a higher resolution image...
That's two different ways to achieve a higher resolution image...
The first would give you a situation where every single pixel is unique and natively rendered...
The second, would include at least some pixels that are created by the process of moving up in resolution...
Make takeaway is that it could play 4K media but it lack the hardware security to protect 4K media so they are not allowing 4K media to be played on the PS4 at the moment.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Microsoft shipped the Playready 3/Playready ND porting kits for iOS and Android October of 2013. They require the same media support that UHD Blu-ray requires. Playready ND is mentioned in Panasonic and Sony Proposals for the digital bridge which also predate the UHD blu-ray release.
The Equipment to make three layer disks was shipping in 2013. Singulus Develops Technology for 100 GB, 4K Triple-Layer Blu-Ray Discs in 2013 and mentions the PS4 and XB1 will have 4K blu-ray support.
The standards for UHD blu-ray were not published till middle of 2015 but the drive just requires a firmware update (Fuji book) by design from 2010.
1) HDMI port with HDCP 2.2 (the new PS4 released in November of the same year will also be equipped with HDMI 2.0 jacks). The REP in this case was showing $25,000 4K projection TVs at one of the largest shows in Europe.
Thoroughly researched.
Sony and Microsoft are counting on Vidipath/Playready ND, IPTV and 4K antenna TV with Microsoft mentioning Game consoles will support 1080P Antenna TV DVR and Live streaming using Playready ND ALL 4K media is delivered as a web page using HTML5 and the TV DRM is Playready. Vidipath's UI is HTML5 using HTML5 <video> with W3C extensions Like DLNA using a common DRM which is Playready. 1080P Antenna TV starts with ATSC 2 which has been delayed for so long it looks like it will be skipped in favor of ATSC3 (4K antenna TV) and will be finalized at about the same time (October) PS4 firmware 4 is released using DLNA 4.
Obliterator
Member
I have no idea how to decipher that Gopher post. Some of it sounds like extreme sarcasm and some of it doesn't.
For example the "Tell them the truth, they've always been trustworthy in the past" and the group of them then laughing. That's a reference to how retail partners leak stuff constantly.
Not sure what to make of it. But he also mentions 2 GPUs which Zoetis also claimed and that really makes no sense to me
For example the "Tell them the truth, they've always been trustworthy in the past" and the group of them then laughing. That's a reference to how retail partners leak stuff constantly.
Not sure what to make of it. But he also mentions 2 GPUs which Zoetis also claimed and that really makes no sense to me
Maybe there is a lot of misinformation being spread so the truth isn't leaked? I have no fucking clue.
It takes the current frame rendered at 4(or more) different sub-pixel offsets - and then interleaves pixels from resuting images into a single high-res.Metfanant said:
The same amount of source pixels is generated as when rendering tiled, or full-screen high-res, but you can do this transparently to the application without breaking compatibility with any of the off-screen processing - which doesn't work with other approaches - hence why it's useful for emulators.
The process you described is what Temporal AA methods do (as well as apparently Quantum Break).
Obliterator
Member
That's one thing I'm thinking. I think he might be saying Sony themselves is spreading false spec leaks? That's kind of how I interpreted that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But why does it not make sense for a dual/stacked GPU like set up? The PS4 already has 2 CPU's (a secondary co-CPU with it's own dedicated RAM), granted it is a low power draw ARM for the background/suspend actions suppossedly.
It's getting interesting. I'm sure devs and pubs know what's really going on. The media just may have been fed something else.
Obliterator
Member
Size and heating. One of the other claims about this PS4k is that it is smaller. That's gonna be a hell of a lot more difficult to do while putting two GPUs in the thing and still keeping it properly cooled. Not impossible of course just difficult. Not to mention you wont get full power out of both GPUs anyways. It would seem much easier to go with 1 GPU. Though dual GPU makes a hell of a lot of sense for backwards compatibility
That could actually be why they didn't. As one of the BDA founders it's possible they are intentionally delaying it as an olive branch to other CEs.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, I think they are confusing 'double the power', or 'double the CU's' with 'dual GPU'. Which can essentially be treated the same (with better efficiency you described) if the new CU's added could probably be 'enabled/disabled' via SDK.
Good point, and not uncommon. Thus the timing of this would be after other's had their fill for several months to a year.
Obliterator
Member
One other thing is that DF said they spoke to people within Sony who weren't even aware of PS4K until it leaked. It's also possible Gophers post is his interpretation of what's happened and not 1st hand account.
Idk just theorizing trying to make sense of that post.
Idk just theorizing trying to make sense of that post.
A few people have said this and that's my thinking at this point. I'm guessing it'll be more of a media device with some mild benefits for gaming.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well people are forgetting where Zoetis said, "Current PS4 owners need not worry", and "PS4 games are looking nice in 4K". It is more than likely mostly media based, with a better scaling process/trick for the 4K than what even the X1 in Bravia's will do due to having some more juice.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me.
I think HDR and a wider color gamut will be more tangible benefits to gaming than simply the res scaling.
CosmicQueso
Member
Of course they are
Do games needs to be "mastered" or reworked to properly display a wider color gamut or is it trivial?
It's not that it doesn't inherently make sense, but dual GPU configurations thus far haven't been 100% efficient nor bug free. Look at SLI / Crossfire. It's been available for over a decade and is still not problem free. For that reason people are suspect. A bigger / faster single GPU is more efficient, simpler, and less costly. Of course there could be some specific reason a dGPU makes more sense we are not factoring in.
The 2 CPU example though is not a good analogy. It is used for separate tasks then the main CPU. They aren't attempting to use it in parallel with the main CPU for game processing.
jeff_rigby
Banned
This is one of the biggest unanswered questions. Add it to Vidipath was mandated by the FCC for June 2015 and the Cable companies are supporting it but not one client and there are more than 20 in articles from 2014 that were in compliance testing. There has to be an agreement or critical element that is being employed to keep every client from getting firmware updates. I think the same applies to Microsoft and Sony supporting UHD blu-ray. The primary use for 4K media delivery schemes will be for 4K antenna TV (ATSC 3) with media at or below 1080P and it is finalizing late this year. UHD Blu-ray and ATSC 3 use exactly the same standards with speculation that UHD Blu-ray players will also be used as STBs to support ATSC 3 when it gets accelerated implementation.
DLNA, the streaming protocol used by Vidipath have gone through
DLNA 2 (WMDRM & Playready porting kit 2.5),
DLNA 3 (below 1080P streaming and using HEVC for IPTV Playready porting kit 2.5) and now
DLNA 4 (1080P streaming which requires Playready ND and Playready porting kit 3) with the listing in Vidipath.org's website now dropping a listing for DLNA 2 and 3.
Surprise DLNA 4 can also support 4K in home streaming on a PS4 that supports 4K media with Firmware 4.0 this October
It's trivial. A lot of games likely will already, it deals more with the display output. DF's video yesterday actually talked about how detail gets clipped in games with HDR because the current HDMI spec can't output it properly.
Having native support for it publicized might make for some more focus on it though.
If they were to go with dual GPU's it's not like they'd literally be using the same as the current GPU. The APU would be using a smaller node (the same node size that a new single GPU would use), and therefore would be in the same overall ballpark in terms of size and thermals.
Agreed
Obliterator
Member
It might be similar in size and heating sure, also possibly not. Not to mention like I also said you wouldn't get full usage out of both GPUs anyways so why bother? Seems like a lot of headaches that could be easily avoided by using a single more powerful GPU.
The only reason I could see a dual GPU making sense for PS4K is if it either is
A) The two GPUS aren't performing the same tasks. In other words the 2nd GPU is doing some other process than rendering the games assets
Or
B) Sony believes it will make backwards compatibility easier with the older PS4 by utilizing the same architecture and not switching to something like a Polaris chip for instance
But overall idk not crazy about the idea but we'll see
It really does make sense though.
Now, unknown to GopherD, he leaked an essential info in his little routine... which will be his downfall and that of Sony as well.
His real name is Harry, and he has his sight set on Alice, who is the wife of a VP at Sony Corp
/s
I figured. I'm expecting a slightly better PS4 that runs games in 4K, helps with VR, etc. not the crazy monstrosity that everyone is making it sound like.
Seems like gopher is saying the put out fake leaks to retailers to throw MS off. This rumor didn't make sense. Why would three different retailers have different information about release date and specs and announcements. Also why brief retailers with such details a year out? Those are things that have to be the same across the board.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Good point.
But I want to get mad right now!
jeff_rigby
Banned
AMD is expecting shipments of PS4 and XB1 to exceed last year. This is not related to VR or as far as I can tell the new games. Retailers need to be informed that they will need larger stocks for this holiday season. The reason, a 4K firmware update which enables all the attractive features we have been hearing about not just 4K media.
I think the second point is bound to happen
potatohead
Member
Interesting, I think it's both though.
The lack of HDCP compliance for 4K60 is on top of the 2160p24 limitation of OG PS4.
At least that's what I remember. I dunno.
Marty Chinn
Member
So people shouldn't have gotten mad at Microsoft for their DRM since we didn't see it implemented yet?
I'm not advocating the dual GPU idea at all. Simply stating there's no reason to assume it would have dramatically different size or thermal requirements versus the single larger GPU with a similar total transistor count most are assuming will be here.
jeff_rigby
Banned
One more time; HDCP for 4K media is required to take place in the same TEE that AACS, Player.,Codecs, Keys and Playready porting kit reside. The Keys are embedded in the Trustzone processor which is in the ARM SoC as Southbridge NOT the HDMI chip. The PS4 has a custom Panasonic HDMI chip that is not listed in the Panasonics HDMI 1.4 site.
Sony VR goggles require a HDMI 2 port and PLUG INTO the PS4!
potatohead
Member
PS VR isn't outputting 4K60 though.
The Maverick
Member
I love Gopher.