PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

RoboPlato said:
Yeah, the only way I see 60fps on the 4k happening and 30 on the 4 is if there was a lot of overhead on the 4 already.

I expect most games will keep the same framerate targets, just adhere more closely to them and focus on getting to native 1080p with high quality AA and AF with some added effects. I could even see some devs opting to downsample to 1080p a bit to get a very crisp, clean image.
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Yeah, there could be downsampling from 1440p to 1080p, but I don't know if 2x is enough for something like that.

Edit: It's enough.
 
RoboPlato said:
If they need double the GPU power and a better CPU to hit 60fps in the same development environment, they're not going to hit 60 on the standard PS4.
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They don't need double the GPU and a better CPU to reach 60fps, like how Battlefront didn't need those. It can be like, once they get the PS4K version to run at 60fps, they may not try to get the game to run at 60fps instead of 45 fps on the PS4, not to go that extra mile, and lock it down to 30.

RoboPlato said:
...
I expect most games will keep the same framerate targets,...
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I don't think that's going to happen. PS4 should be very much easily handle a game running at 1080p60fps on the PS4k at 1080p30fps without breaking a sweat, with similar graphical fidelity and CPU related business, as it'll have 16 more milliseconds to work with. And that's going to be the easy option for devs, which many may take.

DeepEnigma said:
And on the flip-side, a game will suffer on the PS4 at 60fps for those who like more fidelity and are A-Ok with 30fps. ;)
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Oh, didn't think about that, yeah. There are quite many people who doesn't care for 60fps, or just doesn't get what it is. They will be content indeed.
 
DeepEnigma said:
Because internet hyperbole/hysteria based on unproven rumors, account for less than 1% of overall consumers. ;)
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CosmicQueso said:
But sales didn't go down in the month the rumors broke and were all over the internet. Not to say they won't start declining, or that there won't be changes to the trend if/when actual announce, but for now tough to pick out a noticeable negative impact due to the rumors. Shrug.
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Good, valid points. But you never know, maybe over e3 the perfect storm will come together. Sony completely ignore the elephant in the room and show some amazing games, journalists start to speculate that the titles look too good for current PS4 hardware, and go into detail about the possibility of a new PS4.5, Sony refuse to comment on the situtation, The newspapers and news channels pick it up and start to report the issue, then thats it for sony, bye, bye. The snowball effect at its most brutalist. Nintendo will have full dominance and the dark age will begin.
 
Chabbles said:
Good, valid points. But you never know, maybe over e3 the perfect storm will come together. Sony completely ignore the elephant in the room and show some amazing games, journalists start to speculate that the titles look too good for current PS4 hardware, and go into detail about the possibility of a new PS4.5, Sony refuse to comment on the situtation, The newspapers and news channels pick it up and start to report the issue, then thats it for sony, bye, bye. The snowball effect at its most brutalist. Nintendo will have full dominance and the dark age will begin.
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I didn't think it was satirical until I saw this part. Well done.
 
TL24 said:
So based on these rumored specs what current GPU does the GPU in NEO compare to?
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R9 290 but with 4CU disabled and lower clock. Basically, it's like: R9 290 > NEO > R9 280x.
Althought in term of raw power, it's a lot closer than R9 280x than 290. In fact, a simple 20mhz overclock would put the 280x above NEO.
 
TL24 said:
So based on these rumored specs what current GPU does the GPU in NEO compare to?
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GhostTrick said:
R9 290 but with 4CU disabled and lower clock. Basically, it's like: R9 290 > NEO > R9 280x.
Althought in term of raw power, it's a lot closer than R9 280x than 290. In fact, a simple 20mhz overclock would put the 280x above NEO.
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From what I can tell it's basically a 380x, same cu count, similar clocks, tflops, and bandwith.
 
KOHIPEET said:
But it's also a new architecture, which should improve its efficiency, isn't it?
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If it's Polaris, it would be mean lower power consumption. That's your efficiency at work here. It's still GCN there's no major rework.



ZOONAMI said:
From what I can tell it's basically a 380x, same cu count, similar clocks, tflops, and bandwith.
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Nah, 380x which is a rebranded 280x which is a rebranded HD7970 has 32CU. R9 290 has 40CU, twice more than PS4 (20CU). Although PS4 has 2CU disabled, so I guess they disabled 4CU this time.
 
GhostTrick said:
If it's Polaris, it would be mean lower power consumption. That's your efficiency at work here. It's still GCN there's no major rework.






Nah, 380x which is a rebranded 280x which is a rebranded HD7970 has 32CU. R9 290 has 40CU, twice more than PS4 (20CU). Although PS4 has 2CU disabled, so I guess they disabled 4CU this time.
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No. A 380x is not a rebranded 280x. 380x is tonga. Much newer and not a rebrand at all. Google is your friend.

Edit: my bad though it's too late. I've been reading 64 cus all night for some reason.

Still though, 380x is not a rebrand.
 
ZOONAMI said:
It's probably closer to a tonga than a 290 either way, as a 290 generates a shit ton of heat and is a huge tdp/power hog.
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Yup but I was talking more about the core configuration/chip itself than raw compute power. For the former it's close to Tonga, for the latter, 290.
 
Also, this doesn't make any sense: "Games running in NEO mode will be able to use the hardware upgrades (and an additional 512 MiB in the memory budget) to offer increased and more stable frame rate and higher visual fidelity"

RAM amount is still the same (8GB), so where does that extra 512MB come from? Why is it not available in the base PS4 model?
 
The number of CU would indicate it's Polaris 10.
It has twice the number of CU (and ALU) but it will be more than twice in real world performance.
 
Everyone is focusing on the technical specs but no one is discussing the business end of things.

I would really like to know what kind of upgrade program they have in store for people who already own a PS4. If they don't, that's just insane and if they do, I wonder how the pricing will work. My guess would be 200€ to upgrade for a NEO, maybe with a PS+ membership thrown in.

I also wonder how they will handle the logistics.
How are people going to return their vanilla PS4?
Is Sony going to handle it or are they going to make a deal with the game stores?
In any case, the market will be flooded with used vanilla PS4


Does anyone has any info on that?
 
OsirisBlack had said the new PS4K would be $399.99 or $499.99 with better CPU. Does the recent spec reveal show Sony have decided to go for the former?

I do not have a 4K screen, but I will still upgrade if this offers a good increase in graphics/framerate on my 1080p screen.
 
dead monkey uk said:
OsirisBlack had said the new PS4K would be $399.99 or $499.99 with better CPU. Does the recent spec reveal show Sony have decided to go for the former?

I do not have a 4K screen, but I will still upgrade if this offers a good increase in graphics/framerate on my 1080p screen.
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If the leak is accurate then yes.
 
tapantaola said:
I don't think that Color compression can overcome such a miniscule memory bandwidth bump.
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Well, the 380X (with almost the same processing power) has 182 GB/s. The 7850 (with almost the same processing power as the original PS4) had 153 GB/s.
Doesn't mean there aren't situations where the 380X/PS4K can become bandwidth limited more easily, but apparently AMD thinks the bandwidth is enough.
 
tapantaola said:
Also, this doesn't make any sense: "Games running in NEO mode will be able to use the hardware upgrades (and an additional 512 MiB in the memory budget) to offer increased and more stable frame rate and higher visual fidelity"

RAM amount is still the same (8GB), so where does that extra 512MB come from? Why is it not available in the base PS4 model?
Click to expand...

It doesnt say MB... MiB

Thats more Memory Bandwidth.
 
tapantaola said:
Also, this doesn't make any sense: "Games running in NEO mode will be able to use the hardware upgrades (and an additional 512 MiB in the memory budget) to offer increased and more stable frame rate and higher visual fidelity"

RAM amount is still the same (8GB), so where does that extra 512MB come from? Why is it not available in the base PS4 model?
Click to expand...

Some amount of RAM is OS reserved. If they moved some things onto separate hardware (does streaming have some?) they could make use of that.
 
Is this thread still open? I tought a mod would close it already.
Is this rumor verified by an inside source?

Do have exact info what the specs will be? Or just that it will be announced at E3 like the NX?

What about Xbox 1.5?

Many questions, I know :)
 
As long as the performance bump isn't too large when playing 4k-games on the PS4, I don't mind.
Though it does make me a lot more apprehensive in the future when buying consoles, if there'll be a half-gen upgrade between generations.
 
Bloody_Five said:
Everyone is focusing on the technical specs but no one is discussing the business end of things.

I would really like to know what kind of upgrade program they have in store for people who already own a PS4. If they don't, that's just insane and if they do, I wonder how the pricing will work. My guess would be 200€ to upgrade for a NEO, maybe with a PS+ membership thrown in.

I also wonder how they will handle the logistics.
How are people going to return their vanilla PS4?
Is Sony going to handle it or are they going to make a deal with the game stores?
In any case, the market will be flooded with used vanilla PS4


Does anyone has any info on that?
Click to expand...

You expect them to provide you with an update program because you already have a PS4? Seriously?
Did Sony provide people an upgrade program when they went from PS1 to PS2? PS2 to PS3? PS3 to PS4?
Did Nintendo provide an upgrade program when people went from Nintendo to Super Nintendo? Super Nintendo to N64? N64 to GameCube?
Did MS provide an upgrade program when people went from Xbox to 360? 360 to Xbox One? (They kinda did in that case)
Let's move beyond console gaming and ask that same question:

Does Apple provide an upgrade program for people who want to upgrade their iPad or iPhone every year?
Does Samsung provide an upgrade program for who want to upgrade their Tvs to a later model?

The answer to those questions is:
No (or at least mostly no)

However, there is HOPE!

It will work the exact same way it worked for everybody who wanted to upgrade from an older model to a newer one:

They sell their old one (craigslist, GameStop, eBay, etc.) to put it towards the new one.

There is no reason to expect that Sony will do that in this case. Nor should they.
 
Peterc said:
Is this thread still open? I tought a mod would close it already.
Is this rumor verified by an inside source?

Do have exact info what the specs will be? Or just that it will be announced at E3 like the NX?

What about Xbox 1.5?

Many questions, I know :)
Click to expand...

This is very real and many major news outlets are reporting it to be true. No reason for a MOD to close it.
 
It would be nice if it could let us transfer the HDD from the PS4 to the PS4K so we dont need to redownload all the games/patches/DLC again.

I think i would get a upgrade depending on the price and when it comes out.
 
tapantaola said:
Slightly OCed CPU, slightly more memory BW, double the amount of CUs? I call BS!
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I agree.

No comeback on the design differences between having the UVD and UVD as VCE in the APU vs Southbridge. It you also look at the XB1 APU which does have what amounts to a UVD in the APU, it has the same issues seen below and it pre-processes the vision input in Kinect and pushes HEVC for video chat to reduce the overhead in the PCIe between the APU and Southbridge.

The PS4 takes the ARM IP out of the APU and moves it to Southbridge UVD in Southbridge.

Advantages:

1) Video chat, and game recording then take no CPU/GPU/Memory cycles from the APU or GDDR5 memory.
2) Southbridge using DDR3 can support Network standby, Root of Trust boot and Media TEE with fewer power islands in the APU.
3) You get a more secure TEE following all ARM recommendations.
4) Post processing for Video out and pre-processing video in for Gesture/head tracking take no GPU or GDDR5 memory cycles. The same Xtensa accelerators used for codecs are also used for vision processing.
5) HDMI 2's HDCP occurs in Southbridge as does CEC and all HDMI 2 features.

Disadvantage if this is not the case UVD in the APU:

1) Both video buffer and codec compression occur in the APU and a uncompressed HDCP 2 encrypted video stream to the custom HDMI that supports HDMI 1.4 and 2 and a codec compressed stream travels down the PCIe to Southbridge for video out to the HDMI chip and Hard Disk Game Recording
2) Game Data up from Southbridge via the same PCIe and video input for vision processing up through the same PCIe.
3) One of the VR modes has separate video plus VR distorted 120 FPS going down the PCIe to Southbridge at the same time.
4) HDMI HDCP negotiation is passed from the HDMI chip up through the PCIe to the ARM TEE in the APU.
5) CEC commands are passed up the PCIe to the ARM IP and acted upon then also forwarded back down the PCIe to the HDMI chip. HDMI 2's multi-view support (encrypted Video) over the LAN is also passed down the PCIe
6) HDMI 2 supports two views on the same monitor or with a breakout box seen in AMD's EyeInfinity or the Sony VR Goggles two TVs. These two views have to travel down the PCIe

That's 4 video streams down and 2 (stereo remember) video streams up the PCIe bus. Now add video chat while in game and you add another 2 streams up for 3D, it's now 4 video streams down and 4 up the PCIe.

With case one where Southbridge contains the ARM video processing only one video stream travels down the PCIe. Vision pre-processing in Southbridge would reduce the two video streams to a depth map up the PCIe which takes 50 % of the bandwidth that 1 video stream needs.


I think this explains the ooVoo delay till all the vision processing and Video is provided by Sony APIs calling Southbridge ARM IP. It makes sense that this occurs with the launch of VR this October. Sony may have been using Southbridge for some of the OS video but I think they have a NDA with AMD and Microsoft not allowing openVX and Playready from Southbridge till October.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
This may or may not be real but many major news outlets are reporting it to be true. No reason for a MOD to close it.
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Corrected for you.

Some of the leaks have no increase in PS4 performance, it's just OS, media and VR which see an increase in performance (4K media) some are 2X the GPU performance which is not possible at the PS4 prices mentioned. The NEO quote has 36 CUs but memory bandwidth only slightly faster than a Launch PS4. That is so stupidly wrong as to peg the BS meter.

Edit: Oh, I guess the NEO in the Giant Bomb piece is referring to NeoGAF and it's making fun of NeoGAF.

While I believe a PS4.5 is coming I don't think it is this year. What I think is coming is a firmware update to the PS4 turning it into the PS4K and this is being misunderstood as everyone but me believes the launch PS4 can't support UHD Blu-ray and has no HDMI 2 port. Compounding this is the belief that the PS4 APU contains a AMD UVD on a ARM bus rather than that functionality having been moved to Southbridge with the 256 MB DDR3.

Consider that the rumors are coming via Salesmen types not Programmers or EEs. This because I think they are being told that there will be an increase in demand this season as AMD mentions 2016 Console APU sales (Both XB1 and PS4) are going to be larger than 2015. What could be driving that demand?
 
If we're back to 399$ it's a good bews, i'll probably buy it without waiting too much. Hopefully ND will be able to push U4 to 60fps on this, despite the CPU.

CosmicQueso said:
I didn't think it was satirical until I saw this part. Well done.
Click to expand...
Yeah that was the red flag cuz i mean, that never happened
 
You know, I'll probably buy NX instead of 4k, just because the very idea of an upgraded system this early in the game pisses me off to no end. I'll enjoy playing games on my PS4 with some Nintendo on the side.
 
RaijinFY said:
The number of CU would indicate it's Polaris 10.
It has twice the number of CU (and ALU) but it will be more than twice in real world performance.
Click to expand...

Like upgrading from AMD-FLOPS to Nvidia-FLOPS?
 
m4st4 said:
You know, I'll probably buy NX instead of 4k, just because the very idea of an upgraded system this early in the game pisses me off to no end. I'll enjoy playing games on my PS4 with some Nintendo on the side.
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Why does it piss you off? I'm not understanding this mentality. It's not at all like the vanilla Ps4 will be obsolete or even close to it.

The PS4 will have been 3 years old by the PS4K comes out, it's not like it's getting a yearly revision.
All games being developed will be playable on regular PS4 and there will (supposedly) be no games that are exclusive to PS4K.
 
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