PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, simply because you don't have evidence that something does exist does not mean you have evidence of something that doesn't exist."

The+absence+of+evidence+is+not+the+evidence+of+absence+_16b2cc96cac38221051852b93b858f18.png

I'm not saying I don't believe it exists--I was just wondering if we had any new sources confirming this other than the "retailer conference."
 
I'm just surprised there was ever a time when someone selling pancakes was so overwhelmed with demand that a whole idiom came out of it.

Like, if I saw some dude making pancakes I wouldn't think "that dude's on his way to the penthouse".

Pancakes that big? I know they have a whole International House for them, but I just don't see any pancake rush anymore.

But I guess because I don't see this big pancake bonanza isn't confirmation that such bonanza doesn't exist. Maybe I'm just missing out on pancakemania.

Mmmm, I want me some pancakes now!
 
Indicating the leaked new ps store interface and some previous rumors to new interface, namechanges etc. which proved wrong at that time, could it be they are starting a soft relaunch for the playstation brand at E3 with PsVR, PS4k etc? Just combining some previous rumors during a boring uni lesson :)
 
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, simply because you don't have evidence that something does exist does not mean you have evidence of something that doesn't exist."

The+absence+of+evidence+is+not+the+evidence+of+absence+_16b2cc96cac38221051852b93b858f18.png

I get it, but it seems unlikely that a conference like this would happen without any evidence of dev kits existing. The only explanation would be a crazy NDA.
 
I don't see this thing being at E3. At all. No mention. I do expect there to be a God of War 4 trailer with a "gameplay running real-time on a Playstation 4 system" message right at the start, prompting endless arguments about whether it was PS4K or OG PS4.

If its not at e3 and all cleared up one way or the other, it'll be bad for sony.
 
If its not at e3 and all cleared up one way or the other, it'll be bad for sony.

No it will not be. The general public does not care, nor even know about this other than us internet fanatics, lol.

At this point, it is an 'internet rumor' not unlike ALL the rumors of consoles, etc., we had in the past, even before the internet's existence.

It's in essence a PS4 slim with a new rendering output so in the beginning all they have to do is sell it. it's not like they have to make games for this PS4K to launch it.

Yep.
 
I'm not saying I don't believe it exists--I was just wondering if we had any new sources confirming this other than the "retailer conference."

I get it, but it seems unlikely that a conference like this would happen without any evidence of dev kits existing. The only explanation would be a crazy NDA.


It's in essence a PS4 slim with a new rendering output so in the beginning all they have to do is sell it. it's not like they have to make games for this PS4K to launch it.
 
No it will not be. The general public does not care, nor even know about this other than us internet fanatics, lol.

At this point, it is an 'internet rumor' not unlike ALL the rumors of consoles, etc., we had in the past, even before the internet's existence.

This. E3's focus will most likely be on PSVR.

It's in essence a PS4 slim with a new rendering output so in the beginning all they have to do is sell it. it's not like they have to make games for this PS4K to launch it.

While true, that contradicts the OP:

It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance.

What devs are they talking about? Why limit the number of devs getting it? Why is this even all that important to retailers? Why aren't the specs locked yet? I'm not saying that this info is false, but there are some holes in this story. I don't know if said holes will be filled as soon as we'd all like.
 
It's in essence a PS4 slim with a new rendering output so in the beginning all they have to do is sell it. it's not like they have to make games for this PS4K to launch it.

I understand--I just find it curious that retailers would get this much specific information about the system itself at a conference while journalists and those in the gaming industry supposedly don't even know it exists.

Is this a common occurrence? I haven't paid that much attention to this.
 
This. E3's focus will most likely be on PSVR.



While true, that contradicts the OP:



What devs are they talking about? Why limit the number of devs getting it? Why is this even all that important to retailers? Why aren't the specs locked yet? I'm not saying that this info is false, but there are some holes in this story. I don't know if said holes will be filled as soon as we'd all like.

I understand--I just find it curious that retailers would get this much specific information about the system itself at a conference while journalists and those in the gaming industry supposedly don't even know it exists.

Is this a common occurrence? I haven't paid that much attention to this.


I also feel that somethings got crossed as the messages was sent out, the way I take it is that they was giving the retail people a loose explanation of what the PS4K was.
 
Jeff, why do you keep insisting that dedicated co-processors/DSPs need a separate/dedicated memory controller?

It doesn't work like that. You can only have one memory controller (tied to the GPU) and the memory bandwidth is shared with other processors (CPU, UVD, VCE, TrueAudio DSP etc.) by using internal buses.
Facts; The AMD UVD is a Xtensa accelerator on a ARM AXI bus (Supports Network on Chip) which is managed by a Trustzone processor and that ARM block is connected to the X-86 bus via a Host Guest IOMMU. If you try to process video at the same time you are running a game (video chat) you take memory and memory bus time away from the game.

The host-guest IOMMU connects the ARM bus to the X-86 bus and translates ARM memory requests to the X-86/GPU MMU. In this respect you are correct there is one Memory controller that actually accesses Main memory.

The UVD or Xtensa accelerators are used for video codecs and to comply with TEE (Trusted Execution Environment) recommendations they must have a bus that is Memory managed by a ARM CPU as the Trustzone processor. The player, keys, codecs (Xtensa accelerators) AACS, HDCP, Miracast, Playready porting kit...must also be on that same managed bus.

The PS4 takes the ARM IP out of the APU and moves it to Southbridge UVD in Southbridge.
Advantages:

1) Video chat, and game recording then take no CPU/GPU/Memory cycles from the APU or GDDR5 memory.
2) Southbridge using DDR3 can support Network standby
3) You get a more secure TEE following all ARM recommendations.
4) Post processing for Video out and pre-processing video in for Gesture/head tracking take no GPU or GDDR5 memory cycles. The same Xtensa accelerators used for codecs are also used for vision processing.

Disadvantage if this is not the case UVD in the APU:
Both video buffer and codec compression occur in the APU and a uncompressed video stream to the HDMI and a codec compressed stream travel down the PCIe to southbridge and Hard Disk data up from Southbridge via the same PCIe and video input for vision processing up through the same PCIe. Additionally one of the VR modes has separate video plus VR distorted 120 FPS going down the PCIe to Southbridge at the same time. That's 4 video streams down and 2 (stereo remember) video streams up the PCIe bus. Now add video chat while in game and you add another stream up and down the PCIe. With case one where Southbridge contains the ARM video processing only one video stream travels down the PCIe. Vision pre-processing in Southbridge would reduce the two video streams to a depth map which takes 50 % of the bandwidth that 1 video stream needs.


Page 6 ourlines some DRM requirements solved by ARM TEE, DTCP/IP and HDCP SW and configuration executed in TEE For the PS4, that is the Southbridge as a ARM SoC with Trustzone. This also applies to Miracast support. HDCP = HDCP 2.2 done in the Southbridge TEE NOT the HDMI chip.
 
I also feel that somethings got crossed as the messages was sent out, the way I take it is that they was giving the retail people a loose explanation of what the PS4K was.

Right, but my only issue is this: If it was a year down the road, why are they spilling these details to Gamestop? Why does Gamestop even need to know about the CPU/GPU at this point? Is Sony just merely trying to keep up a great relationship with the company?
 
Right, but my only issue is this: If it was a year down the road, why are they spilling these details to Gamestop? Why does Gamestop even need to know about the CPU/GPU at this point? Is Sony just merely trying to keep up a great relationship with the company?

Well, Gamestop is a game publisher now. ;)
 
No it will not be. The general public does not care, nor even know about this other than us internet fanatics, lol.

At this point, it is an 'internet rumor' not unlike ALL the rumors of consoles, etc., we had in the past, even before the internet's existence..

Maybe it wont be bad for them on a large scale, but even now if people are holding off on picking up a PS4, and they dont clear up the rumors by e3, I dont see how thats good for sales.
 
Maybe it wont be bad for them on a large scale, but even now if people are holding off on picking up a PS4, and they dont clear up the rumors by e3, I dont see how thats good for sales.

Because internet hyperbole/hysteria based on unproven rumors, account for less than 1% of overall consumers. ;)
 
Maybe it wont be bad for them on a large scale, but even now if people are holding off on picking up a PS4, and they dont clear up the rumors by e3, I dont see how thats good for sales.

But sales didn't go down in the month the rumors broke and were all over the internet. Not to say they won't start declining, or that there won't be changes to the trend if/when actual announce, but for now tough to pick out a noticeable negative impact due to the rumors. Shrug.
 
Earlier in this thread I said I thought people were overestimating the number of power hungry console gamers and I got told that it was the opposite, and that more and more console gamers were paying attention to industry news, digital foundry etc

Now it's "most people won't care about this"

well which is it?

is it oochie wally wally or one mic
 
Earlier in this thread I said I thought people were overestimating the number of power hungry console gamers and I got told that it was the opposite, and that more and more console gamers were paying attention to industry news, digital foundry etc

Now it's "most people won't care about this"

well which is it?

is it oochie wally wally or one mic

The current discussion is about wether these rumors we have now, are/will effect Sony if there is no E3 announcement. They won't.

What you are talking about, is an official announcement. Two different beasts.

We have rumors all the time in the tech world. Always have and always will, especially in gaming.
 
Earlier in this thread I said I thought people were overestimating the number of power hungry console gamers and I got told that it was the opposite, and that more and more console gamers were paying attention to industry news, digital foundry etc

Now it's "most people won't care about this"

well which is it?

is it oochie wally wally or one mic

It's probably both. And probably that nothing in the real world actually changed, but opinions have swung ceaselessly to either side, back and forth, like a pendulum.

It's basically like forecasting stocks or currency values. The predictions themselves affect "perceived value" more than what is actually going on in the real world.

MGS2 was right, hyper-reality is the only reality now.
 
This may have been mentioned previously, but does anyone think Sony is not releasing a 4K blu-Ray player in 2016 because it will drive adoption of PS4k if it has presumed 4K bluray capabilities.
 
But sales didn't go down in the month the rumors broke and were all over the internet. Not to say they won't start declining, or that there won't be changes to the trend if/when actual announce, but for now tough to pick out a noticeable negative impact due to the rumors. Shrug.

Which is funny because the day after the new Xbox One FCC certification came online Xbox One dropped out of the top 100 at Amazon & only popped back in a few moments then fell back out again.

Edit: it's back in the Top 100 now #83
 
Earlier in this thread I said I thought people were overestimating the number of power hungry console gamers and I got told that it was the opposite, and that more and more console gamers were paying attention to industry news, digital foundry etc

Now it's "most people won't care about this"

well which is it?

is it oochie wally wally or one mic

Probably both!

I know the younger lads at my work were completely shocked and pissed hearing this news but that is because they believed these consoles were replacements not BC upgrades. They need things explaining to them.

I personally don't mind the iteration plan so long as Sony/MS are fully upfront on how it will work. I mean with cars they bring the new model out with the old engines and then two years later do a facelift with new engines, better spec and same price. A high percentage upgrade without a murmur!
 
Surely a good business model would be to provide a period of overlap between systems when the PS4K gets better but not necessarily fully utilized as you put it. Then when the overlap period has ended the PS4 is no longer supported and the problem goes away?
Hopefully, but that may not be the case. We'll see...

Surely any business wanting to make profit would target were they can maximise sales. If PS4 users > PS4K users...

Yes, but what I'm afraid of is developers choosing a relatively easier path of getting the game to run at 60fps on PS4K, and having pretty much the same game run at 30fps, even though through some love and affection, they could have gotten the game to work at 60fps on the PS4 also. Screenshots will look pretty much the same.

Again, we'll see.
 
Which is funny because the day after the new Xbox One FCC certification came online Xbox One dropped out of the top 100 at Amazon & only popped back in a few moments then fell back out again.

Edit: it's back in the Top 100 now #83

Could have been the whole Quantum Break timing as well. ;)
 
This may have been mentioned previously, but does anyone think Sony is not releasing a 4K blu-Ray player in 2016 because it will drive adoption of PS4k if it has presumed 4K bluray capabilities.
The thread on avsforum is saying the same thing. That the only reason why they haven't put out a standalone player was because of this...

And to a lesser extent... promote there in house ultra service of 4k streaming
 
Yes, but what I'm afraid of is developers choosing a relatively easier path of getting the game to run at 60fps on PS4K, and having pretty much the same game run at 30fps, even though through some love and affection, they could have gotten the game to work at 60fps on the PS4 also. Screenshots will look pretty much the same.

I'm still not entirely bought in to this whole glorious 1080p60 thingy-ma-giggy. If a game comes along on PS4 at a stable 30fps and is enjoyable to play, that's great. So what if the PS4K is 60fps, higher res, or prettier graphics. Really, the only time to complain is if a game, regardless of system (PS3/XB1/PS4/PS4K/PC), is choppy as hell, barely sustains 30fps, and/or plays shit for other gameplay/story reasons.

I can't believe there are many devs who remain in business over a long period a time by adopting "lets purposefully make crap games" as their business model.
 
I'm still not entirely bought in to this whole glorious 1080p60 thingy-ma-giggy. If a game comes along on PS4 at a stable 30fps and is enjoyable to play, that's great. So what if the PS4K is 60fps, higher res, or prettier graphics. Really, the only time to complain is if a game, regardless of system (PS3/XB1/PS4/PS4K/PC), is choppy as hell, barely sustains 30fps, and/or plays shit for other gameplay/story reasons.

I can't believe there are many devs who remain in business over a long period a time by adopting "lets purposefully make crap games" as their business model.

The point being that same game could have been running at 60fps on the PS4 if there wasn't a PS4K. We'll probably have a lot of such situations. Games shooting for 60fps on the PS4 will probably opt for 30fps after the introduction of PS4K, it doesn't make those game crap and it's viable alternative for the devs, but it's an alternative where the game on my PS4 suffers as I like 60fps.
 
The point being that same game could have been running at 60fps on the PS4 if there wasn't a PS4K. We'll probably have a lot of such situations. Games shooting for 60fps on the PS4 will probably opt for 30fps after the introduction of PS4K, it doesn't make those game crap and it's viable alternative for the devs, but it's an alternative where the game on my PS4 suffers as I like 60fps.

And on the flip-side, a game will suffer on the PS4 at 60fps for those who like more fidelity and are A-Ok with 30fps. ;)
 
This may have been mentioned previously, but does anyone think Sony is not releasing a 4K blu-Ray player in 2016 because it will drive adoption of PS4k if it has presumed 4K bluray capabilities.

I didn't even think of that. That is a very real, real possibility. PS2 level trojan horsing.

Pretty sure there were other BD players available from even Sony at the time of PS3 release, only those were like $1000.
 
The point being that same game could have been running at 60fps on the PS4 if there wasn't a PS4K. We'll probably have a lot of such situations. Games shooting for 60fps on the PS4 will probably opt for 30fps after the introduction of PS4K, it doesn't make those game crap and it's viable alternative for the devs, but it's an alternative where the game on my PS4 suffers as I like 60fps.
If they need double the GPU power and a better CPU to hit 60fps in the same development environment, they're not going to hit 60 on the standard PS4.
 
What will likely happen is that developers will, yet again, opt for prettier graphics.

I can only hope for stable 30fps with the PS4K.

Or they'll make the game for OG PS4, and do a slop job of moving it to PS4K, and tell people "it's because we need more power" etc, etc.
 
I think that's a bit of a high expectation for a rumoured 2x GPU performance increase. Just going from 30 FPS to 60 FPS is going to require more than 2x performance.

It's supposed to be a significantly better CPU as well. And there's likely going to be Ram bus gains. I think its plausible with a sacrifice here or there.
 
I don't think so.

What will likely happen is that developers will, yet again, opt for prettier graphics.

I can only hope for stable 30fps with the PS4K.

There gets to a point though where the graphics hit a point where it doesn't make sense unless you are at a CG movie quality. I mean look at the uncharted footage we've seen. They will get to a point where 60 fps is now what they should strive for with that current level of graphics.

just my opinion of course.
 
1080p with 60 fps and enhanced graphics.

Take my money!

If PS4K promises all upcoming games with 60 FPS, I'll be there day one.

Do you want to end up like the people in the NX thread? Because this is how you do that.

60FPS might happen, but it would be pretty close and there wouldn't be room for significant visual enhancements. Most likely you'll see 30FPS with drops except for games which are 30FPS on PS4), but on mostly "ultra" instead of "high" or with better AA and AF. You'll notice the difference without needing a DF analysis, but it won't be mind-blowing by any stretch. It's not like a half-gen leap or even a quarter-gen leap.


You know what I want to see on PS4k though? Freesync. Do it Sony and AMD. If AMD can get the Big 3 in on Freesync, I'll lock myself into AMD for a few years.
 
Do you want to end up like the people in the NX thread? Because this is how you do that.

60FPS might happen, but it would be pretty close. Most likely you'll see 30FPS with drops except for games which are 30FPS on PS4), but on mostly "ultra" instead of "high" or with better AA and AF. You'll notice the difference, but it won't be mind-blowing by any stretch. It's not like a half-gen leap or even a quarter-gen leap.
Yeah, the only way I see 60fps on the 4k happening and 30 on the 4 is if there was a lot of overhead on the 4 already.

I expect most games will keep the same framerate targets, just adhere more closely to them and focus on getting to native 1080p with high quality AA and AF with some added effects. I could even see some devs opting to downsample to 1080p a bit to get a very crisp, clean image.
 
This may have been mentioned previously, but does anyone think Sony is not releasing a 4K blu-Ray player in 2016 because it will drive adoption of PS4k if it has presumed 4K bluray capabilities.

I think this is exactly why a PS4K even exists as a concept.

Instead of Sony trying to market a 4K Bluray player, fold it into their best selling hardware and let it dominate the market at a 400$ price point.

No reason to buy a specific 4K Bluray player when I can get a game system built in as well.
 
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