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[wesleyshark]

I hope the Neo will be equal in Power to the Microsoft machine.

The neo must be in full production now. There is no way Sony can fit more power into a box that size. The PS4.5 will be coming second but the PS5 will be a new book.

🤔🤔🤔🤔

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

IIRC digital foundry did a thing on the XBO S and there were some improvements. If there were on that pretty sure there will be some on neo.

Not sure about this but the Neo PDF says there is a "base" mode and "Neo" mode which sounds like it is fixed at the hardware level?

I'm really not sure how the Xbox One S implementation of the higher GPU clock works and why games didn't break to be honest or need patches to take advantage?

We need a dev to explain.

 

[aindriu80]

Do you want it to cost $700?

No, but I can do it.

 

[Quotient]

Regardless of the specifications of the system, i think Sony need to keep the price at $399, with a corresponding drop of the original PS4 to $249-$299. This combination should appease both ends of the markets.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

<_< Which reminds me. Nobody answered my question:

How come PS4 NEO won't get performance upgrades out of the box like XB1 S?

Even without patches, games run marginally better just because the GPU was upclocked 7% on XB1S.

So why with NEO, when the CPU is upclocked to such a significant degree and the GPU is so much stronger and the bandwidth higher, does the game have to run at the exact performance metric of the original PS4?

I can understand that they need patches to take advantage of resolution and FPS and graphics increases past what the game originally supported on the base PS4(like say a locked 30fps game being patched to run at 60, or a locked 1080p game patched to run at 1880p with SMAA or whatever), but even without said patches, shouldn't games just run better by default?

I don't know how Sony could set a clock speed to make games run exactly like OG PS4 since the clock of the CPU is much higher, the bandwidth of the RAM is higher and the GPU is completely new.

Are default upgrades still on the table i wonder?

MS said that XBOS wouldn't boost the performance but it ended up doing so anyway. It's very possible that Neo does so too for games with unlocked framerates unless they go out of their way to limit the CPU and GPU when running in base mode.

It's more about the messaging not to expect any improvements for old games unless there is a patch. Because it would wary a lot between games. Something like MGS5 wouldn't be improved at all because it's already running pretty much locked 60 fps while something like Infamous SS could see a significant boost when running in the unlocked framerate mode.

 

[thelastword]

Because Neo is a revision not a new platform. Like past revisions, announce and release is very close.
BTW, how do I search my own post in this thread? I want to see how stupid I looked in denial phase,

NEO is not a revision in the traditional sense, a phone is much smaller than a console with fewer parts. Sony saying they're taking the apple approach does not mean it's announce today launch tomorrow. Announce today launch six months later will be just as comparable in the console space.

If that were the case then why not just announce at E3, Gamescom, PGW, or PSX? Why create a special event right before their biggest sales season to announce a product that won't be available during said season that will undercut the sales of your product that is available? People are already putting off PS4 purchases just because the Neo exists, now imagine an actual announcement and launch date, holiday sales would tank..

Also, Sony has stated they want to take an Apple approach to launching hardware, which means schedule an event around the product, and launch it weeks to a couple months later. It is also interesting to note that this event also falls on the same day as Apple's annual iPhone event. While this method of announcement to launch didn't make sense in the past, it makes full sense for iteration consoles as you don't want to tank sales of the current product for months when you are just releasing a superior version of the same product.

The reason Microsoft announced the Scorpio so far in advance is because Sony caught them off guard with the Neo, and they had to announce early to get in front of Sony. Can you imagine Microsoft hadn't done that and only announced the S.. imagine a scenario where the S is sitting next to the Neo on store shelves for an entire year before Scorpio got announced at next E3..

Very sensible points here, however I'm not saying that the console can't launch this year. I'm simply saying Sony does not need to rush NEO out the market for the holidays, it's not like there's an NX launching this year or another powerful console to compete with the PS4 this holiday season. However, they do have another piece of kit they want to sell for $400.00 in PSVR, why flood the market with three pieces of hardware?

If by announcing NEO, Sony will cut down on PS4 sales momentum, I'd dare say that a NEO released in the market close enough to the pricepoint of a vanilla will do even more damage to the current machine and perhaps even more damage to PSVR, which many will choose between. So do you choose PSVR or NEO this holiday? I'm sure many can't buy both, so in the end we have three way cannibalization.

Two points I want you to remember;

1 Sony said that the vanilla PS4 will be perfectly fine to run all it's VR games, so why rush NEO to compete with Vanilla and especially PSVR, not everyone has $800+ of disposable income and I'm thinking Sony will want VR to go as unchallenged and unhindered as possible this holiday. Having a cheaper vanilla available, say at $299 + two games makes much more sense if one is interested in PSVR and is a much cheaper entry point into VR as opposed to buying a NEO+PSVR. Those who already have a PS4 only have a PSVR to buy and there's no NEO in the market tempting them to choose.


2.) House which everyone keeps quoting on the apple thing also said that NEO would be a premium product, supposing NEO is specced with a better CPU and comes in at $500, what happens then? Doesn't that denote that it's probably not launching as soon and at the price we're thinking? If we're going apple, Apple phones are premium products too, so why do we take one part of the quote and eliminate other implications and suggestions from that same interview?

I'll say this, I have no confirmation that the NEO will launch this year or next, but looking at everything, it makes much more business sense to launch NEO early or mid next year, a 9 month start or even a 6 month start over Scorpio is perfect, Sony don't need a year, and it's not like the PS4 will stop selling this holiday season, even if NEO is announced on the 7th. There are huge games coming up for the holidays, PS4 bundles and a possible vanilla PS4 slim, they're launching VR with close to 20 games last I checked. There's no need for the NEO this holiday, Sony will do well without it and have a better chance at launching VR successfully without it. Let NEO get the ball rolling over Scorpio next year, they will still have their headstart, just give PSVR it's time to shine.

 

[wesleyshark]

No, but I can do it.

Well at least they will have 1 sale lol

 

[Jonboy]

Seeing the bump and hoping for new info...

 

[onQ123]

<_< Which reminds me. Nobody answered my question:

How come PS4 NEO won't get performance upgrades out of the box like XB1 S?

Even without patches, games run marginally better just because the GPU was upclocked 7% on XB1S.

So why with NEO, when the CPU is upclocked to such a significant degree and the GPU is so much stronger and the bandwidth higher, does the game have to run at the exact performance metric of the original PS4?

I can understand that they need patches to take advantage of resolution and FPS and graphics increases past what the game originally supported on the base PS4(like say a locked 30fps game being patched to run at 60, or a locked 1080p game patched to run at 1880p with SMAA or whatever), but even without said patches, shouldn't games just run better by default?

I don't know how Sony could set a clock speed to make games run exactly like OG PS4 since the clock of the CPU is much higher, the bandwidth of the RAM is higher and the GPU is completely new.

Are default upgrades still on the table i wonder?

Most likely it will but it's not worth writing about.


Say a game on PS4 that is suppose to be 1080P 60FPS has framerate drops but on Neo it run as it should. Sony isn't going to broadcast that the games that was suppose to be 60fps in the 1st place is now running as it should on Neo. They will tell you that the game run at 1080P 60fps on both consoles & leave it up to DF to show the difference.

 

[Glory Fades]

MS said that XBOS wouldn't boost the performance but it ended up doing so anyway. It's very possible that Neo does so too for games with unlocked framerates unless they go out of their way to limit the CPU and GPU when running in base mode.

It's more about the messaging not to expect any improvements for old games unless there is a patch. Because it would wary a lot between games. Something like MGS5 wouldn't be improved at all because it's already running pretty much locked 60 fps while something like Infamous SS could see a significant boost when running in the unlocked framerate mode.

That was kind of my point. What is the problem in not bottlenecking the updated versions of their hardware.?

It makes me angry. The Xbox One S can be even better than 7 percent if they allowed it to be.

 

[kennyamr]

Looks like I'll be skipping PS4 expensive AF if it ends up being 500$. I'll just wait for the PS5 2 years post release that will be a lot better instead for that price.

3 years*

 

[Hexa]

Nvm

 

[Fafalada]

I'm really not sure how the Xbox One S implementation of the higher GPU clock works

Games haven't been written to be "clock synchronized" since at least PS1 era, so changing clock generally "just works". It's also something that've seen on Sony platforms for a bit over a decade(starting with PS2 70000 series), so it's not like Sony is in principle against it.
That said, even taking leaked documents at face value we have NO context for how Sony intents to position Neo in the market, and whether this has a place in their strategy.

 

[Hedrush]

Can someone explain tme why MS and Sony are releasing, and have release upgraded hardware, with a promise it will do nothing for the software?

I dont understand this generation at all.

Hmm, your definitely confused because they haven't said this at all.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

MS said that XBOS wouldn't boost the performance but it ended up doing so anyway. It's very possible that Neo does so too for games with unlocked framerates unless they go out of their way to limit the CPU and GPU when running in base mode.

It's more about the messaging not to expect any improvements for old games unless there is a patch. Because it would wary a lot between games. Something like MGS5 wouldn't be improved at all because it's already running pretty much locked 60 fps while something like Infamous SS could see a significant boost when running in the unlocked framerate mode.

LOL Seeing your avatar from the corner of my eye, and the CAPS ACRONYMS as I was scrolling through, I thought you were Jeff Rigby in a Neo thread and was about to sail on by.

 

[BigEmil]

<_< Which reminds me. Nobody answered my question:

How come PS4 NEO won't get performance upgrades out of the box like XB1 S?

Even without patches, games run marginally better just because the GPU was upclocked 7% on XB1S.

So why with NEO, when the CPU is upclocked to such a significant degree and the GPU is so much stronger and the bandwidth higher, does the game have to run at the exact performance metric of the original PS4?

I can understand that they need patches to take advantage of resolution and FPS and graphics increases past what the game originally supported on the base PS4(like say a locked 30fps game being patched to run at 60, or a locked 1080p game patched to run at 1880p with SMAA or whatever), but even without said patches, shouldn't games just run better by default?

I don't know how Sony could set a clock speed to make games run exactly like OG PS4 since the clock of the CPU is much higher, the bandwidth of the RAM is higher and the GPU is completely new.

Are default upgrades still on the table i wonder?

NEO will definitely get improvements to non-patched games like Xbox one S. Just like the S the only improvement would be stablising frame rate to it's lock. So if a game is vsync'd to 60fps it will be stable 60fps no drops.

What would be most interesting is seeing games like Infamous Second Son/First Light (unlocked fps) option turned on.
It averages around 45fps on OG PS4 so will NEO push it to 60fps and keep it there? Same with Killzone Shadowfall etc that's what im eager to find out.

 

[Glory Fades]

I was referring to.

"It was also made very clear that current games would not be getting any type of performance upgrades by being played on the system"

Also Phil Spencer was asked about Xbox One S and how it will affect games currently out, and he said it won't.

I dont understand. Why are we getting more power?

? Sorry if I am confused and misinformed, but I can tbe the only one in the world. Maybe I am not understanding the message correctly.

 

[farisr]

NEO will definitely get improvements to non-patched games like Xbox one S. Just like the S the only improvement would be stablising frame rate to it's lock. So if a game is vsync'd to 60fps it will be stable 60fps no drops.

I hope so but you can't say for sure though. The concerns about it not doing so are coming from the leaked documents which state that in base mode the neo is locked to ps4 specs (meaning it can't take advantage of the upclocks).

 

[FalsettoVibe]

What type of graphics should I expect from a 4.7 TF Neo?

 

[Fafalada]

PS4 gives much closer access to hardware, but then you need that fixed hardware for games to run guaranteed.

Hw-access doesn't matter when all you change are clock-speeds - as I mentioned in the other post, this has happened several times across PS platforms in the past, and while the differences ranged from barely noticeable to significant - without a site like DF doing a detailed profiling analysis, people wouldn't, and for most part didn't - know any better.

 

[jelly]

? Sorry if I am confused and misinformed, but I can tbe the only one in the world. Maybe I am not understanding the message correctly.

Microsoft didn't want to promote the extra power because it's never certain to make a difference. Yes, it does sometimes show better results but it's not consistent across board and also shows no difference so would be unfair to make a big song and dance about it.

 

[Ushay]

<_< Which reminds me. Nobody answered my question:

How come PS4 NEO won't get performance upgrades out of the box like XB1 S?

Even without patches, games run marginally better just because the GPU was upclocked 7% on XB1S.

So why with NEO, when the CPU is upclocked to such a significant degree and the GPU is so much stronger and the bandwidth higher, does the game have to run at the exact performance metric of the original PS4?

I can understand that they need patches to take advantage of resolution and FPS and graphics increases past what the game originally supported on the base PS4(like say a locked 30fps game being patched to run at 60, or a locked 1080p game patched to run at 1880p with SMAA or whatever), but even without said patches, shouldn't games just run better by default?

I don't know how Sony could set a clock speed to make games run exactly like OG PS4 since the clock of the CPU is much higher, the bandwidth of the RAM is higher and the GPU is completely new.

Are default upgrades still on the table i wonder?

Will obviously get performance improvements ie framerate, other changes will likely need to be implemented by devs on an individual basis via patches. If they have the effort or desire to do that is another matter.

 

[Steel]

What type of graphics should I expect from a 4.7 TF Neo?

Better resolution/framerate. You could honestly equal it with a $170 gpu nowadays, so it's not top-of-the-line or anything.

 

[Prisoner]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

 

[cooldawn]

Better resolution/framerate. You could honestly equal it with a $170 gpu nowadays, so it's not top-of-the-line or anything.

That's just third-party. Sony first party studios will push it beyond what we think is possible. They always do.

Essentially, at full pelt, this thing should provide stunning visuals.

 

[Glory Fades]

Microsoft didn't want to promote the extra power because it's never certain to make a difference. Yes, it does sometimes show better results but it's not consistent across board and also shows no difference so would be unfair to make a big song and dance about it.

have your avatar hanging in my Living room, in painted form.

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

Its a very scary time to be honest. They are asking me to plop down 4-500 again, only to have a PS5 come out in a couple years?

 

[CosmicQueso]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

As a consumer, I'm excited to have a better console that can playback 4k content on my tv.

So, not really all that anti-consumer to me. But hey, to each their own.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Using the word anti-consumer to describe something that you don't like just makes you look silly.

I'm definitely celebrating btw. Can't wait!

 

[VincentMatts]

Hmm, your definitely confused because they haven't said this at all.

Yeah, MS said software had to work on both xbox one and scorpio consoles, not that games wouldnt take advantage of the better HW.

Although i have to think that the game "design" might be held back a tad just because of that base ps4 or xbox one version. If the games NEED to work on the base models then you cant really take full advantage of the better HW.

Like for example, you cant make BF6 have 128 players online with destruction etc on ps4k or scorpio if the game has to work on ps4 and xbox one with parity. So we're essentially going to see base games only with better framerates and resolution, textures, level of details etc

 

[LifEndz]

As a consumer, I'm excited to have a better console that can playback 4k content on my tv.

So, not really all that anti-consumer to me. But hey, to each their own.

Same here. Actually looking forward to replaying some old games (that'll hopefullly get upgraded for Neo).

 

[Swass]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

I'm not sure I agree it's anti consumer.. it fills a niche and isn't being forced upon anyone who doesn't want it. I can see how it could become anti consumer if they quickly drop support for the base PS4, but I think Sony is going to be very careful with the way this is handled and it won't happen.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

What type of graphics should I expect from a 4.7 TF Neo?

Where is the 4.7 talk coming from? Is that what is rumored from an upclock?

 

[Luschient]

That's just third-party. Sony first party studios will push it beyond what we think is possible. They always do.

Essentially, at full pelt, this thing should provide stunning visuals.

Can't WAIT to see what MLB: The Show looks like on this thing.

 

[Curufinwe]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

Offering better hardware while still supporting the old hardware isn't anti consumer.

 

[Hexa]

Hw-access doesn't matter when all you change are clock-speeds - as I mentioned in the other post, this has happened several times across PS platforms in the past, and while the differences ranged from barely noticeable to significant - without a site like DF doing a detailed profiling analysis, people wouldn't, and for most part didn't - know any better.

From what I know this isn't the case with PS4. Issues with thread synchronization or something like that. I'll give you a source later.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's just third-party. Sony first party studios will push it beyond what we think is possible. They always do.

Essentially, at full pelt, this thing should provide stunning visuals.

I don't really think so, since its generally for performance and IQ enhancements like higher res and stabler performance metrics, i assume that many devs won't bother to add GPU specific features on top of what the PS4 can already do, unless its a third party developer on PC who already has higher end assets for the PC build to use. It would be far more work while trying to optimize the base game at the same time.

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

Its not anticonsumer if its not forced upon you, which this isn't. Considering what Sony have said so far, seems like PS4 users are specifically not left out in the cold.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

If you do that, you might as well wait a couple more years until the PS5 Neo is released.. but why do that when a PS6 is just around the corner.. but wait then there will be a PS6 Neo is a couple years after that so...

Or I can do what I already wrote down. But thanks for the bad advice on I should spend my own money.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Where is the 4.7 talk coming from? Is that what is rumored from an upclock?

I'm just going with the original report so that I don't disappoint myself.

 

[farisr]

I'm just going with the original report so that I don't disappoint myself.

The original report was 4.2TF. You're gonna disappoint yourself if you're expecting 4.7TF.

LOL.

 

[Elitist1945]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

Having more than one choice for a PS4 at different price points is pro-consumer.

 

[score01]

People, standard PS4 games won't see a performance increase because the Neo runs in two modes. Normal with everything locked down to the same speeds as PS4 and Neo mode where everything is faster. The xbone-s only has one mode only hence the performance increase in some games.

Now, if the base PS4 mode was set to run faster than the current PS4 then things could get interesting but I wouldnt be holding my breath for that...

 

[farisr]

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

-It'd be anti-consumer if all of a sudden they stopped selling regular ps4s and came out with the neo at the same pricepoint.
-It'd be anti consumer if devs starting targeting the neo and then downporting to the ps4.
-It'd be anti consumer if devs starting making neo exclusive games.

None of that is happening though, so no, people aren't celebrating anti-consumer bs, as this isn't anti-consumer.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I don't really think so, since its generally for performance and IQ enhancements like higher res and stabler performance metrics, i assume that many devs won't bother to add GPU specific features on top of what the PS4 can already do, unless its a third party developer on PC who already has higher end assets for the PC build to use. It would be far more work while trying to optimize the base game at the same time.

Nah he is right Sony first party will push the system .
Just like how they push PS4 i expect the same for Neo .
I expect HZD to look crazy good on Neo for eg .

I can't believe anyone is celebrating this anti-consumer bs.

Neo is not anti-consumer that is a stupid thing to say .

 

[Prisoner]

Having more than one choice for a PS4 at different price points is pro-consumer.

Not if you bought a PS4 already.

And I get it, you guys are excited for your shiny new toy. You don't all need to tell me I'm silly and wrong.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

The original report was 4.2TF. You're gonna disappoint yourself if you're expecting 4.7TF.

LOL.

Oh...my bad. Not sure where the heck I got 4.7 from. lol

 

[finalflame]

Not if you bought a PS4 already.

If you already bought a PS4 it does not affect you. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. All future games will still work on your hardware.

Jesus christ people.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Not if you bought a PS4 already.

So every time a manufacture brings out new hardware there being anti-consumer ?
No consoles just becoming like everything else in the world .

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Not if you bought a PS4 already.

And I get it, you guys are excited for your shiny new toy. You don't all need to tell me I'm silly and wrong.

You're being a bit silly though. How is releasing new hardware anti-consumer? The PS4 has been out for nearly 3 years and iterative hardware is nothing new in the consumer world. It's just a model that consoles have been slow to adopt.

Meh, I don't even know why I'm having to explain this. This argument has been done to death already.

 

[Timu]

I hope the Neo will be equal in Power to the Microsoft machine.

If that were the case it would cost a lot!!!

 

[Inuhanyou]

People, standard PS4 games won't see a performance increase because the Neo runs in two modes. Normal with everything locked down to the same speeds as PS4 and Neo mode where everything is faster. The xbone-s only has one mode only hence the performance increase in some games.

Where do the documents say that the PS4 NEO's 'base mode' runs games at the same clocks as the original PS4?

And also, if that was confirmed, how is it possible that the same clocks of OG PS4 would somehow give the same result of OG PS4 on NEO, even when the GPU is completely different and would give higher performance in GPU related scenarios by default because of the more advanced architecture? The PS4 GPU's flops are not the same as the Polaris flops because the CU's are based on different iterations of GCN.