Backfoggen
Banned
I don't think he needs that link, lol.
PS4's AF issue we need answers!
- Thread starter pixlexic
- Start date
I don't think he needs that link, lol.
xenorevlis
Member
This is incorrect. The ONE uses more ram than the PS4 (slightly), but it's also working in a layer-stack that involves the main OS, the snap OS, and the media functionality so that all of them can work at the same time, without needing to suspend applications. The PS4 OS can support multiple apps at once, but as soon as a main app/game is running, you have to suspend it if you want to trim a video down while in the middle of said app/game.
That said, I forgot about some of the recent changes in ONE OS, so it's possible that the tables have switched as far as usage, but I doubt either is using much more than the other because both need to meet similar resource restrictions to allow things like music, web browsing, friends list, etc. to run during live application, and I think Microsoft intends to increase quality of recorded video on the ONE, possibly with the freed up resources since having removed mandatory Kinect memory / cycles.
Wasn't for Jux, it was to add to his message.
xenorevlis
Member
Generally speaking, though you need the resources available to do it and the engine needs to work with the hardware in a manner conducive to it being as easy as it could be. If a developer finds that quick-porting code to hit the basics on each platform works minus a few small discrepancies such as AF, then they must decide whether or not it is important enough to deal with or just focus on framerate / resolution, shader / post precision, etc.
geordiemp
Member
Probably getting close to the uncomfortable truth, maybe developed on Xb1 and ported to Ps4...somethings did not port over and that's it, no need to do any more work. Who knows ?
Imo dev is either lazy or crap, no other ways to spin it,
xenorevlis
Member
Even though I brought forth earlier the reality of not all members in a company being hardworking, the simplified descriptor of "lazy or crap dev" used is derogatory and we don't know the whole picture. I cannot, for instance, disclose anything we may encounter with the hardware that would say one is above the other if we were working on a multiplatform title. Luckily, we are not, but the situation as to why those 7 specific games lack AF on PS4 could be any number of reasons. Best to just address it with each developer and see if they are willing to talk.
Could be that xbone having those 2 stages(memory to esram) on separate buses gives that edge to have more "free" af. everything on the ps4 goes through that same memory to cpu / gpu path.
the lazy dev excuse just doesn't cut it. why would they be lazy on one console but not the other? even more so when that platform is the market leader.
Barely more than a handful, among hundreds of games.
The prevalent narrative with these threads seem to be that there is a problem with the PS4 either on the SDK or the Hardware, in spite of the overwhelming evidence that this is not the case.
How is pointing the finger at developpers and saying that the answer should be found there, "not a satisfactory answer"?
The guys from DICE already answered what they could: the PS4 or its SDK have no known AF problem and is perfectly capable of 16x AF. Now we need a dev that either -chose- to not implement it, or ended up not implementing it due to deadline/ omission, to step up and explain.
Until then, it's only going to be speculations.
Given their focus and also how prompt they have been at underlining lack/ bad AF, why would Eurogamer/DF not go to these (7?) devs and ask questions about this?
xenorevlis
Member
This scenario makes sense, but only if you leave the way AF and other process are handled as-is. The PS4 has no trouble doing AF as well as the Xbox One, but both have different layouts, if you will, of how everything is routed.
geordiemp
Member
What was the lead platform on Evolve.....?
Who paid for the marketing deal ?
Case closed.
It is (almost)always ported from a PC, then using 2 completely different porting programs, they are downgraded to a workable medium acceptable for each platform.
It is likely to do with the fact that DX11 has very streamlined routes when porting, vs ps4 has no real direct PC streamlining, and needs actual code monkeys doing "work" to get some visual effects working with pleasant results.
"Case closed?" Jesus fucking Christ.
You're inferring a Microsoft plot to make their competitor's games look somewhat worse through secret contracts that force devs to disable a specific setting. Posts like this are my least favorite thing about GAF.
I don't buy into the marketing deal thing, but if we could track for each game affected the dev, engine used, and lead dev platform, that might help paint a picture of the problem.
the contract could even be on sony's side, if say all these games are 1080p and that is what they are trying to push for marketing purposes. and it eats up those resources as a result.
but we should keep all options on the table before doubling down. portability, team resource constraints, etc.
Ingueferroque
Banned
We're off to a great start!
InquisitorAles
Member
Aaaaand, here we go, this bullshit again. In every topic about graphics face-off same story about "evil mircosoft, that pays developers to downgrade graphics on ps4". Guys, please, stop this BS right now, it happened in almost every threads about graphics on consoles
No.
shit, my bad. will edit that out of my post.
qa_engineer
Member
geordiemp
Member
Wow, you really not good at understanding straight forward stuff. What a load of crap you just typed. I inferred nothing, just got people thinking about marketing deals, lead platform, Xb1 vs Ps4 Api, how could AF be missed ....?
If say MS is doing the marketing, then Xb1 is lead platform, so it gets developed here first using MS API's on Cryengine 3 for example. The game is shown here at shows, demos and the like. The version for the Ps4 (as both are X86) its ported from the XB1 code, that porting may or may not miss things as Ps4 is not DX11 based. Understand ?
OK, easy terms - the console its developed on will tend to have less bugs than the one that gets the port - works both ways, could be a Ps4 developed game ported to Xb1.
Now, we often don't know what is lead platform, however, if there is a Sony marketing deal then Ps4 is lead, if MS marketing it then Xb1 is lead.
So Evolve is MS marketing and led, so Xb1 is lead platform, so the code will be ported from Cryengine DX11 to Sony API;s...see where I am going here....See how this could possibly lead to a missed AF implementation ?
No conspiracy, lead platforms / marketing deals to me mean that's the version that gets all the demo / shown at events, testing and the like, and then its copied over is my opinion.
That was due to unfamiliarity with PS3 hardware, which was known to be a PITA to work with. It was a problem a lot of games dealt with a few years into the start of last generation.
geordiemp
Member
Tales from your ass. Please think before you type. I asked questions , where the hell did I say evil MS or cash under table. I have 2 x 360's, I am platform agnostic, just buy the best console version, always have. (don't game with mice)
Marketing deal = Lead platform Xb1 = Cryengine software on DX11 API >>>> -= Greater chance of missed things on Ps4 version. I doubt they developed both separately as equal lead.
Or you can go with the N4G answer you just typed.
geordiemp
Member
At least you understood what I was eluding to, unlike some of the other posts...
I honestly thought that everyone on GAF at least would know that Marketing deal = lead platform = less chance of bugs.
Oh well.
It sure served the PS3 version of Battlefield 3!
Jessie.Bristol
Member
But that still doesn't make any sense, since we know games suffer from this issue even when the lead platform is PS4. In the case of Dying Light, the Xbox One has better Anisoptropic Filtering even though PS4 was the lead platform.
geordiemp
Member
Was dying light lead development on Ps4 ? It was for marketing.....I honestly don't know, but again Techland its Chrome engine, they specialise in DX10 .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_Engine
There is no problem. The majority of those games run at a higher framerate and resolution on the PS4. There is this misconception that AF is free but when there is AA and higher resolutions then there is usually a hit in performance. Devs seem to have made a call for higher res and better performance in these small selection of games.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Edit: Never mind. D:
geordiemp
Member
Ah, you actually read the page...
In March 2014, the devs claimed "no clear lead platform" for Dying Light.
http://www.onlysp.com/dying-light-game-world-size-customization-ai-and-more-exclusive-interview/
Did this change since?
Am also curious if it could come from a DirectX -> OpenGL (the Sony version anyway) conversion, as multiplat makers would be naturally tempted to code primarily on PC with DirectX API.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Yeah, I'm used to seeing genuine posts like that so I jumped to conclusions. Sorry.
geordiemp
Member
Agree, this is what probably most of us think when we say lazy devs,,,. Its lazy in the sense that no time is allocated to making sure each version is fully polished...
Cryengine based so I guess its strong on DX API, and led by MS, so we would need a dev who is familiar with Cryengine to say yep AF is easily missed ....
PodcastFips
Member
Devs can keep their AF and improve the visuals elsewhere on PS4, I never paid attention to that.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I didn't know what it was until recently, and when I knew what it was, I still couldn't see it, so I asked for screenshots. Even after the screenshots where posted, I couldn't see it, so I had to ask what to look for. I then saw it.
That's how I know 'I don't give a damn'.
Pop
Member
To be fair, it's noticeable once you know what you're looking for.
This is a DEV problem OP, that's your answer.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Wha... It has two memory pools, I'm not sure what you mean by stages. One itty bitty fast pool and one big slow one. How can that make it "free"? There are plenty, if not most games that have low AF on the XB1, if it were free it would be 16x for every game, it is not.
At this point you have a few examples of differences and many more with no differences. Your theory doesn't cut it either, you are just throwing shit out there and hoping technical words make it sound more valid.
How many games are out on the PS4 now? Hundreds? How many show a discrepancy? 8? 12? Maybe you all should stop "counting the hits and ignoring the misses"?
plasmawave
Banned
No, but I think it's totally reasonable to think that the Evolve team might have spent more time polishing the Xbox version because of the partnership.
KnockOneOff
Banned
Whoops Im still going by the old info that the PS4 uses 4.5gb for games while the Xbox has 5gb(recently upped?)
Perhaps Sony may encourage developers to optimize for framerate and resolution over eye candy? Many games do perform better, and at higher resolutions on PS4. At higher resolutions graphical effects may become more intensive and subject to being scaled back. Just a thought. Sometimes I wish Sony and Microsoft would focus more on what the gamer wants and less on the incessant need tout better numbers.
The best course of action would be to have as many people ask the developers about the issue in the affected games and to create a public awareness of it.
I'm sure it will be able to fixed in all the games if there is enough awareness and pressure. Also that will lessen the chances of it happening in future.
I've personally held off on buying a strider and dying light because of it
I'm sure it will be able to fixed in all the games if there is enough awareness and pressure. Also that will lessen the chances of it happening in future.
I've personally held off on buying a strider and dying light because of it
Great game, can't wait to play it on my PS4. Oh by the way, can you put textures in ESRAM?
Yes! In compressed formats.
32MB of ESRAM is not a hard limit for render targets.
Render targets can be passed to and from ESRAM and DDR3.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
Your DTE move engines can move and decompress textures from the ESRAM and not use any of the GPU cycles to do so.
Speed?
Is 4GB @ 256bits of DDR5 faster than 4MB of DDR3 @ 1024bits.
In this case the 4MB wins.
For every 1 set of 256bits to the GPU the DDR3 is sending 4x to the GPU.
That's why ESRAM is in XB1.
Yes! In compressed formats.
32MB of ESRAM is not a hard limit for render targets.
Render targets can be passed to and from ESRAM and DDR3.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
Your DTE move engines can move and decompress textures from the ESRAM and not use any of the GPU cycles to do so.
Speed?
Is 4GB @ 256bits of DDR5 faster than 4MB of DDR3 @ 1024bits.
In this case the 4MB wins.
For every 1 set of 256bits to the GPU the DDR3 is sending 4x to the GPU.
That's why ESRAM is in XB1.
It is but it's not completely free, and if you are looking for a couple of fps in a hurry it must become a tempting switch to flick off.
Great game, can't wait to play it on my PS4. Oh by the way, can you put textures in ESRAM?
Yes! In compressed formats.
32MB of ESRAM is not a hard limit for render targets.
Render targets can be passed to and from ESRAM and DDR3.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
Your DTE move engines can move and decompress textures from the ESRAM and not use any of the GPU cycles to do so.
Speed?
Is 4GB @ 256bits of DDR5 faster than 4MB of DDR3 @ 1024bits.
In this case the 4MB wins.
For every 1 set of 256bits to the GPU the DDR3 is sending 4x to the GPU.
That's why ESRAM is in XB1.
Can we stop looking at ESRAM as anything other than a bodge?
Great game, can't wait to play it on my PS4. Oh by the way, can you put textures in ESRAM?
Yes! In compressed formats.
32MB of ESRAM is not a hard limit for render targets.
Render targets can be passed to and from ESRAM and DDR3.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
Your DTE move engines can move and decompress textures from the ESRAM and not use any of the GPU cycles to do so.
Speed?
Is 4GB @ 256bits of DDR5 faster than 4MB of DDR3 @ 1024bits.
In this case the 4MB wins.
For every 1 set of 256bits to the GPU the DDR3 is sending 4x to the GPU.
That's why ESRAM is in XB1.
Just no. As I said before, your typical game scene will be at the very least several Hundreds MB of textures. 32MB of ESRAM is way to small to make any significant use for texture usage.