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[Jaguar Victory]

Wait a whole lot of nothing picture that most people initially joke about has turned into an 8 page war in a Sony thread. Where are all the Sony fans crying that the xboys shitting up yet another Sony thread? They’re not it seems.

@Concern wheres your concern for this thread being ruined by fans boys spreading the usual fud? You’re quick to screech if it’s an Xbox thread.

I think we're reacting to the new news. If that's ok? Of course when receipts arrive we tend to question some folks who made bold claims.

 

[FranXico]

So does that mean the RedGamingTech was full of shit as we suspected?

His unified L3 speculation was quite wrong, I would say.

 

[MasterCornholio]

We don’t know about PS5.

Mark said they were RDNA2 CUs. Can't we make an estimate based off the information that AMD gave us on those CUs?

 

[Knitted Knight]

My guess.

Sony probably were fine with how a typical RDNA2 GPU is arranged so they used that design. Microsoft for whatever reason needed theirs to be different. Maybe it was due to them wanting more CU per shader array or something else.

It's a server blade APU. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[Loxus]

It is one CU outside the 40CUs of the GPUs.
It is a silicon unit outside the GPU.

The tempest engine isn't one of the GPU CU's. There are four disabled for redundancy.

Ok, I'm open for this discussion.
It will help everyone on GAF figure out where it is.
Since it's not one of the 40CU's.
Can you guys figure out where it is?
I think it could be one of these I circled in red as there look like there could be a CU.

 

[azertydu91]

It is 25% for GCN to RDNA and Xbox One X and Series X.

We don’t know about PS5.

But GCN to RDNA 2 is at least 40%.



What claim exactly?

No, xsx is rdna 2 there's nothing contradicting this.If evidence are provided then we will talk.

 

[FranXico]

what am i looking at? im confused

who died?

A large amount of speculation has been proven wrong, as well as some FUD.

Now, we're in the bickering over nothing stage.

 

[01011001]

The Earth is getting flatter than ever!
Not only there's nothing special with the Caches, now the FPU resembles more the Zen 1 FPU than Zen 2's?!
And still the thing is throwing punches at the SeX? What's actually happening there guys?

the PS5 is the main focus of basically every third party dev. that's what's happening.

look at games on PS2 and Xbox. the Xbox was on a whole nother level in comparison, yet most games barely looked any better on it.
same with the GameCube, often even worse on there. there were games that ran or looked worse on GC compared to PS2, even tho the GC was way more powerful.

and now we have the same mentality among developers but with a way smaller power gap.

so there's your explanation... that and apparently Microsoft's devnkits suck ass, which was the case even with the Xbox One apparently

 

[azertydu91]

what am i looking at? im confused

who died?

I don't know but he was shot apparently.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

... that and apparently Microsoft's devnkits suck ass, which was the case even with the Xbox One apparently

Microsoft has always sucked with software.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's a server blade APU. What's so hard to understand about that?

Not sure how servers would benefit from that kind of a layout.

I knew what Microsoft said about the CPU being server class and there's definitely speculation that they are using the APU for streaming.

Just not sure how that design would benefit streaming.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

I find it fascinating to see the different ways that the different companies design the layout compared to one another. I can't say I could identify the different parts of the processor without help from people to outline which areas are what but to me it's really just cool to see how two systems with such similar parts inside are very differently arranged. The Sony design has the CPU off to the side and what looks to be further from the memory modules. While Microsoft put the CPU cores what appears to be much closer to the memory. Fascinating. Just Fascinating. To think that all of that incredible INCREDIBLE architecture of transistors and tiny wires can do the things that they can. What a time to be alive.

I wish we as humans could intelligently and calmly discuss the parameters of each to see where and why these different choices have been made rather than all this mudslinging between factions saying RDNA1 this RDNA3 that.

Honestly, it's all just fascinating and the technology is becoming so advanced. I love that two such similar technologies can be laid out so differently and get different results. It's clear to me that both designs have their ups and downs when compared to one another but we should all be thrilled to be getting such (relatively) cutting edge technology in the consoles this time around.

 

[The Hamburglar]

I think we're reacting to the new news. If that's ok? Of course when receipts arrive we tend to question some folks who made bold claims.

You mean that we’re back to rdna 1? So the usual fud.

 

[Knitted Knight]

We need a white paper on that GE from ICE Team. The floodgates should open for the common folk.

 

[John Wick]

lol man you are out. those was things that people are writing on b3d. Wake up. and I'm not interested in learning more anyway. Redgamingtech is proven as absolutely unreliable in the console space

Stop crying man if you can't comprehend fact from fiction..........I don't need to wake up because I never took things as fact when I knew they were speculation. How childish are you?
Hahahaha your telling me they are writing bad things about RTG on B3D? Is the world ending oh no..............................................

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Either way, the PS5 seems to be well built and perfomant console. I'm sure it will serve folks well for the next few years. I'm just glad the over the top fanboy bullshit theories are being dispelled.

 

[anothertech]

Like I said, ppl arguing over shit they have no idea what the are talking about or looking at.

Everything cerny said was true. It's easy to see.

It's not devs holding back the software to make ps5 look better. Holy shit lol.

 

[Self]

Can't wait to read pages of people that don't know what the fuck they are looking at. lol

Who are you talking to dude. I know exactly what I'm looking at. It's a LEGO set where the photo mode bit is missing. Can't fool me.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I just asked about the 256bits support in Road of PS5.



Seems like it is not set on the FPU 256bits being cut yet.

I see some English words

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

who died?

 

[Jaguar Victory]

You mean that we’re back to rdna 1? So the usual fud.

Like I said, ppl arguing over shit they have no idea what the are talking about or looking at.

Everything cerny said was true. It's easy to see.

It's not devs holding back the software to make ps5 look better. Holy shit lol.

I believe Cerny told the truth. It's RDNA2. But the fanboys took it to the next level with magical RDNA3 applications.

 

[FranXico]

the PS5 is the main focus of basically every third party dev. that's what's happening.

No? Most third party devs program for DirectX first, because then they get PC and Xbox covered in one fell swoop. Sony does provides APIs such as GNMX that make porting from DirectX relatively easy.

Example: interview to The Crew (PS4) devs.

Most people start with the GNMX API which wraps around GNM and manages the more esoteric GPU details in a way that's a lot more familiar if you're used to platforms like D3D11. We started with the high-level one but eventually we moved to the low-level API because it suits our uses a little better,

Note that a lot of devs (probably most, in fact) just stick with the high-level GNMX, because going the extra mile to implement things in the low level API takes a non-trivial amount of effort.
It should be obvious that using GNMX incurs a performance penalty to your game engine, by the way.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

tales from the ass?

This is my favorite romantic novel.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

It's a server blade APU

What are the requirements for the server blades?

 

[Knitted Knight]

Like I said, ppl arguing over shit they have no idea what the are talking about or looking at.

Everything cerny said was true. It's easy to see.

It's not devs holding back the software to make ps5 look better. Holy shit lol.

It just can't be the fact that one company mislead with their marketing about power.... it can't be that. It has to be an industry wide conspiracy as to why the PS5 performs better, and actually has a performance delta advantage on the competition, sometimes significant or sometimes negligible.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I believe Cerny told the truth. It's RDNA2. But the fanboys took it to the next level with magical RDNA2 applications.

I thought the issue was that it lacked those features not that it had them.

 

[John Wick]

As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) mesh shaders and VRS are not features within the CU, but further down the rendering pipeline. In fact every one is pointing at the GE to cull pretty much everything before rendering. Sony can do it because the PS5 is a stand alone system.



There is no "if". I am not going to debate an improbable scenario. When there will be a court case on the issue, if ever, I'll go and debate about it, but until then Cerny's and Lu's words are to be taken as official on the matter.


It's actually 40 CUs. 4 are shut down for yield reasons.

If the GE indeed does the culling far earlier in the pipeline that could be potentially a massive game changer. I've read things alluding to it being programmable whatever that means. This is just speculation incase some people don't understand that.

 

[John Wick]

Ok, I'm open for this discussion.
It will help everyone on GAF figure out where it is.
Since it's not one of the 40CU's.
Can you guys figure out where it is?
I think it could be one of these I circled in red as there look like there could be a CU.

Not sure but someone will point it out

 

[SportsFan581]

Well that would mean Mark Cerny was lying to us then. It would be a shame if true.

No lies. The transistor numbers provided by Sony were never large enough for any kind of meaningful IC implementation. That's been known since the very beginning.

Relax, nothing changes regardless of what is or isn't ascertained by a die shot. Though that's a pretty ruff one, more work to be done there. I can't believe this image is going to be used for warring too, you can already tell. LOL

 

[Gamerguy84]

I believe Cerny told the truth. It's RDNA2. But the fanboys took it to the next level with magical RDNA3 applications.

I'm not sure what you read but I seen a lot of speculation in a speculation thread. I never read anyone saying anything concrete. Even RGT said to take his words with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Clear]

The most interesting thing about the PS5 APU layout is the sheer amount of space on the die dedicated to stuff outside of the CPU and GPU cores.
Looking at the bottom of the image (in the portrait, annotated view) there's space basically equivalent to the entire Zen2 area set aside for other functions. I'd assume this is the whole I/O complex area and as such needs fast interconnects with all of the rest of the chip, interestingly the thing its the furthest away from is the CPU, suggesting that a lot of its function is to some degree more autonomous or isolated from direct CPU control.

 

[yurinka]

Mark said they were RDNA2 CUs. Can't we make an estimate based off the information that AMD gave us on those CUs?

Both AMD and Cerny said PS5 has custom RDNA2. Same goes with Xbox.
This means that it's RDNA2 but they cutted, added or changed what they considered.

 

[DForce]

Lets see what RGT has to say.


And I want people to remember that he always tells people to take what his sources tell him with a grain of salt.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The most interesting thing about the PS5 APU layout is the sheer amount of space on the die dedicated to stuff outside of the CPU and GPU cores.
Looking at the bottom of the image (in the portrait, annotated view) there's space basically equivalent to the entire Zen2 area set aside for other functions. I'd assume this is the whole I/O complex area and as such needs fast interconnects with all of the rest of the chip, interestingly the thing its the furthest away from is the CPU, suggesting that a lot of its function is to some degree more autonomous or isolated from direct CPU control.

I know some people were speculating on why the PS5 has a CPU advantage (not saying that it does). But it could be possible that the CPU isn't better but that it doesn't work as hard as the XSX CPU. This could be due to all those processors that do work for it. Like the co processors that are part of the I/O system for example.

It's just a dumb guess.

 

[kretos]

I don't understand wtf you people are talking about, eli5 what difference all this means for people who don't give a shit to understand all this tech stuff

 

[azertydu91]

If the GE indeed does the culling far earlier in the pipeline that could be potentially a massive game changer. I've read things alluding to it being programmable whatever that means. This is just speculation incase some people don't understand that.

The thing I don't get with early culled triangle as described in the geometry engine is how it is supposed to work with raytracing.
Because if we take that unreal 5 demo epic said that they culled non visible triangles but with ray tracing it has to take into account reflections and wouldn't that induce popin?
That's why I think that the programmable part might be linked to RT, maybe there's a scale to just get a lower geometry level rendered to help for raytracing?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

It's soft right now 'cause I don't know what the fuck I'm looking at yet but I'm ready...

 

[azertydu91]

I know some people were speculating on why the PS5 has a CPU advantage (not saying that it does). But it could be possible that the CPU isn't better but that it doesn't work as hard as the XSX CPU. This could be due to all those processors that do work for it. Like the co processors that are part of the I/O system for example.

It's just a dumb guess.

Someone should compare the cpu usage of ssd's using the direct storage method from MS and see how much of cores they use.
Is it available on PC?I remember reading it was supposed to come on pc.

 

[Garani]

If the GE indeed does the culling far earlier in the pipeline that could be potentially a massive game changer. I've read things alluding to it being programmable whatever that means. This is just speculation incase some people don't understand that.

It comes directly from Cerny's Road to PS5. He stressed that the GE culls pretty much everything so that the CU doesn't waste time rendering unneeded geometry.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

the PS5 is the main focus of basically every third party dev. that's what's happening.

look at games on PS2 and Xbox. the Xbox was on a whole nother level in comparison, yet most games barely looked any better on it.
same with the GameCube, often even worse on there. there were games that ran or looked worse on GC compared to PS2, even tho the GC was way more powerful.

and now we have the same mentality among developers but with a way smaller power gap.

so there's your explanation... that and apparently Microsoft's devnkits suck ass, which was the case even with the Xbox One apparently

If you were a dev, you'll do the same and focus more on PS5.

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

What I'm looking at here, Good or bad? Promises not kept or something?

 

[John Wick]

The most interesting thing about the PS5 APU layout is the sheer amount of space on the die dedicated to stuff outside of the CPU and GPU cores.
Looking at the bottom of the image (in the portrait, annotated view) there's space basically equivalent to the entire Zen2 area set aside for other functions. I'd assume this is the whole I/O complex area and as such needs fast interconnects with all of the rest of the chip, interestingly the thing its the furthest away from is the CPU, suggesting that a lot of its function is to some degree more autonomous or isolated from direct CPU control.

It has it's own co-processors

 

[John Wick]

I know some people were speculating on why the PS5 has a CPU advantage (not saying that it does). But it could be possible that the CPU isn't better but that it doesn't work as hard as the XSX CPU. This could be due to all those processors that do work for it. Like the co processors that are part of the I/O system for example.

It's just a dumb guess.

Bingo! Co processors

 

[MasterCornholio]

Both AMD and Cerny said PS5 has custom RDNA2. Same goes with Xbox.
This means that it's RDNA2 but they cutted, added or changed what they considered.

I'm pretty sure he said the CUs are RDNA2 ones.

What is custom is the overall GPU itself. So basically RDNA2 CUs plus any features that they wanted from RDNA2 and custom features.

What they added to the base is what people are debating about. The CUs are definitely RDNA2 ones.

 

[quest]

Someone should compare the cpu usage of ssd's using the direct storage method from MS and see how much of cores they use.
Is it available on PC?I remember reading it was supposed to come on pc.

Another year for pc direct storage. I think that could be the quicky series x ports using bc io basically while the ps5 version using hardware io. That would explain the cpu on the Xbox being over worked.

 

[Knitted Knight]

If you were a dev, you'll do the same and focus more on PS5.

Minority rights are human rights. Cmon Bo, you should know better.

 

[SportsFan581]

What I'm looking at here, Good or bad? Promises not kept or something?

Neither, just a curious thing to look at. Shots need to be clearer though in order for the tech nerds to really be able to decipher anything.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

It's soft right now 'cause I don't know what the fuck I'm looking at yet but I'm ready...

 

[Clear]

I know some people were speculating on why the PS5 has a CPU advantage (not saying that it does). But it could be possible that the CPU isn't better but that it doesn't work as hard as the XSX CPU. This could be due to all those processors that do work for it. Like the co processors that are part of the I/O system for example.

It's just a dumb guess.

That seems on point to me. It certainly fits with what Cerny was saying about so much of the i/o pipelining optimization just "being there", and not requiring programmatic intervention.

From an engineering standpoint it makes sense: Basically why spend money on more cores when you can achieve the same result by effectively offloading a lot of heavy data pre-processing onto an intermediary layer between mass-storage and CPU/GPU?

 

[Knitted Knight]

Neither, just a curious thing to look at. Shots need to be clearer though in order for the tech nerds to really be able to decipher anything.

The GE, cache scrubbers and I/O layout is the main thing here that standout and to better understand it - it can only happen through leaks of NDA info. Basically back to square 1.