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PSN Hack Update: FAQs in OP, Read before posting

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Commanche Raisin Toast said:
-77 million ACCOUNTS (users with multiple accounts)
-im not downplaying the incident, im asking why sony is being considered a special case despite there being many other similar or more severe hacking cases around the globe, many of which deal with something a bit more serious than some basic user info on a game network (CC info was encrypted, so it's a dead point unless sony verifies that it somehow got decrypted and leaked)
-i never mentioned anything about fanboys spreading anything, not even peanutbutter
-you're right, they do have a duty to protect that data, but if someone stronger than them comes along and takes it by force then you get mad at the person that took it

im not saying they shouldn't get a fine and have all those companies look into it and make sure they are up to code and all that, but i see this class action lawsuit as an attempt to syphon whatever they can get out of a company for something that is utterly impossible to ask of any company regardless of size or purpose- a 100% unhackable security system.

Class action lawsuits are used in the US because there is very little consumer protection enshrined in legislation. It's often the only way to give a company the slap on the wrist that they need to be given in these circumstances.

As I said, I don't think that Sony is being treated as a special case. Your memory must be very short, because last year Gmail got hacked via a backdoor which is used by law-enforcement agencies, and Google copped it from all sides. This is not exclusive to Sony.

Lastly, I work in this field so I'm not unsympathetic to the argument that there is no such thing as a 100% secure system. However, the results of the independent investigation being undertaken need to be made public in my opinion so that the public can assess whether or not Sony was just an unfortunate victim or if they failed to adequately secure the data they were collecting.
 

Averon

Member
RustyNails said:
Privacy is not sacred in our country. No one gives crap about intrusive TSA patdowns and I hardly recall public outrage over the recent revelation about iPhones tracking your locations. Stuff like Dancing with the Stars and American Idol are sacred here. So much so that the Whitehouse had to negotiate with TV execs when to air Obama's address to the nation, and how much flexible their programming is.

To the general public, convenience and and feelings of safety trump privacy.
 

statham

Member
um
Commanche Raisin Toast said:
sony didn't 'fuck up' unless they put no security at all on their network. a hacker happened to be better than their security. they will put in security that is better than said hacker, but then there will just eventually be a hacker better than THAT security. nothing is 100% secure and unhackable unless it's powered off. how is this so hard to understand? sure, everyone WANTS to dream of systems that cannot be breached at all unless you have a magic key, but that's not reality. all current security systems on networks and computers are just giving us a false sense of comfort that our data/money is safe, when all it takes is simple someone that's better. that's it. think of how many companies out there have worse security than sony's but just haven't been targeted yet. they won't get in trouble unless they actually get targeted and hacked. that's why im calling bullshit because it's like fining a stab victim for not being swift enough to dodge the knife. and until you get stabbed you can't get fined because nobody can prove you're unstabbable until they witness you dodge an incoming knife.

and again, big companies get hacked like this all the time as has been posted again and again by users in this thread. why is it okay for them to 'allow' EVEN MORE data from EVEN MORE users to be compromised, but it's not okay that sony couldn't thwart such attacks.
if a hacker beat them, then they fucked up. yes everything can be beaten, but you believe in companines that should have better protection then the hackers. the hacker won and sony loss., people believe in companies protecting their stuff, sony was not able to do this with the hackers, they lost. they put up their best defense and lost, yes it could happen to microsoft, but it hasen't yet, they are still winning this fight. sony lost, they didn't do enough.
sony's is a online gaming service. a bank is a fucking BANK.



-77 million ACCOUNTS (users with multiple accounts)
-im not downplaying the incident, im asking why sony is being considered a special case despite there being many other similar or more severe hacking cases around the globe, many of which deal with something a bit more serious than some basic user info on a game network (CC info was encrypted, so it's a dead point unless sony verifies that it somehow got decrypted and leaked)
-i never mentioned anything about fanboys spreading anything, not even peanutbutter
-you're right, they do have a duty to protect that data, but if someone stronger than them comes along and takes it by force then you get mad at the person that took it

im not saying they shouldn't get a fine and have all those companies look into it and make sure they are up to code and all that, but i see this class action lawsuit as an attempt to syphon whatever they can get out of a company for something that is utterly impossible to ask of any company regardless of size or purpose- a 100% unhackable security system.
 

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
I don't even care about the data infringement any more tbh, I just want to see PSN back on-line now, shit happened, nothing we can do about it now, hopefully PSN will be better for it but the sooner the better seriously, it's really starting to drag now, I really feel sorry from PS3 only users out there.
 

Speevy

Banned
Four_Chamber said:
You cannot be serious. This is really the pinnacle of "reaching for straws." There is no facepalm image good enough to post here.

Well, keep on fighting the good fight guys. This thread is moving too fast right now. Hopefully, we'll have some more concrete news tomorrow.


Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?
 

Massa

Member
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?

Yes.
 
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?

Er... yes, you should.
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?

Yes you should.
 

Jburton

Banned
lowrider007 said:
I don't even care about the data infringement any more tbh, I just want to see PSN back on-line now, shit happened, nothing we can do about it now, hopefully PSN will be better for it but the sooner the better seriously, it's really starting to drag now, I really feel sorry from PS3 only users out there.

This.
 
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?
Yep. And I agree with the poster above - XBox Live has its own brand of shady. Leave out the false equivalencies though.
 

statham

Member
sony so fucked up how anyone can argue, really. the hackers are smarter then sony? then they fucked up. best protection gets beat by a group of unemployed hackers? you dun fucked up. you know the inside and outside of you system but some street kids stole all your passwords? you dun fucked up.
 

Dead Man

Member
Stoffinator said:
"Drama queen" comes to mind when I see his vids.
I was always under the impression that every video of his was him playing a character. Look at his car video, he is a joke character. I don't think he is ever serious.
 

Speevy

Banned
jim-jam bongs said:
Er... yes, you should.


I should have phrased that differently. My point was that neither of these companies take pride in protecting the information you give them.

As much as that actually pissed off at the time, the reason I'm done with Microsoft is my fourth dead Xbox 360. And keep in mind the first one I ever had was free, and so were two replacements.

But that has nothing to do with this topic.

I just want PSN back. I use it daily, and I just want it back.
 

ZZMitch

Member
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?

You should, I had similar issues when getting rid of my auto renewal last year.

But this really isn't the thread to bring that up and it just ignites stupid arguments, which is why his post annoyed me.
 
So does anyone have any idea if we'll be able to change our password via the website or will it have to be from this firmware thing only? I figure if they have my info they could just sign in to the website and change shit before I can so maybe they won't reactivate that part right away. Wouldn't want to have an exposed account.
 

Jburton

Banned
statham said:
sony so fucked up how anyone can argue, really. the hackers are smarter then sony? then they fucked up. best protection gets beat by a group of unemployed hackers? you dun fucked up. you know the inside and outside of you system but some street kids stole all your passwords? you dun fucked up.

How enlightening

Tell me more..
 

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
Speevy said:
Well he's not lying.

True story.

I sold my Xbox 360 and called customer service to have them delete my credit card.

A year and a half later, I bought another one and recovered my gamertag. Credit card was still on there.

Should I be mad at Microsoft?

Anecdotally I have found this is a very common problem, I've had a hell of a time removing my card from MS's system before, once they charged me after they said it was removed and then they refunded the money back onto a different card that had expired :-\, in the end I asked the supervisor from the call centre for an address which my solicitor could send legal correspondence in regards to this matter, three months later they decided to write off the years sub they refunded to the expired card and refunded me again on the correct card.

It really is quite annoying as there has been some cracking deals for live subs on the dash board but I just refuse to give MS my card details.
 

low-G

Member
shagg_187 said:
What? Again, unless they had a buffer, It'll take mere days to get atleast one credit card number from the list.

I was joking about the wifi password. It would take an incredibly long time to brute force my wifi password, it is many many times more complex (billions to the billionth power or probably more) than a cred card number.
 

statham

Member
Jburton said:
How enlightening

Tell me more..
nice, like what? what to know my life? if I married have kids? let me know I'll get back to you. edit: you could fight some of my stances vs making stupid comments. come at me bro!
 

Jburton

Banned
Ickman3400 said:
So does anyone have any idea if we'll be able to change our password via the website or will it have to be from this firmware thing only? I figure if they have my info they could just sign in to the website and change shit before I can so maybe they won't reactivate that part right away. Wouldn't want to have an exposed account.

I think the accounts will remain blocked until you first access it again through your PS3 when things are turned back on.
 
I remember when my bank was hacked and issued a statement recommending customers get new debit cards.

And on a separate occasion my credit card was used fraudulently after buying something from a few online websites, but I'm still not sure where the breach came from. It could have been Amazon.

This happens pretty frequently nowadays.

NPR had a report on this today saying that the POS (point of sale) card swipers at stores send data to card processing companies that get hacked quite often. They were making the claim that brick and mortar stores are no more safe than online retailers and sometimes less safe because of how often they are targeted. That's what I gathered from the story anyway.
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Speevy said:
I should have phrased that differently. My point was that neither of these companies take pride in protecting the information you give them.

As much as that actually pissed off at the time, the reason I'm done with Microsoft is my fourth dead Xbox 360. And keep in mind the first one I ever had was free, and so were two replacements.

But that has nothing to do with this topic.

I just want PSN back. I use it daily, and I just want it back.


I seriously need to know what are people doing with there 360s... I had my launch 360 till a I traded it in for the slim... It was still working like a champ..

Putting that comment aside.. What you mention should not be the standard. We as consumers should not have to put up with that kind of shit.
 

vilmer_

Member
statham said:
sony so fucked up how anyone can argue, really. the hackers are smarter then sony? then they fucked up. best protection gets beat by a group of unemployed hackers? you dun fucked up. you know the inside and outside of you system but some street kids stole all your passwords? you dun fucked up.

wat
 

hauton

Member
I'm curious how bad this actually is... do we have information/estimates on stuff like

- # of unique PSN accounts
- # of active accounts
- # of accounts with CC info attached
- # of Qriocity subscribers (who must certainly have CC info attached?)
- Sales revenue of PSN cards, or a breakdown of how many use CC vs cards?

I'm guessing some of this is pie in the sky as to availability, but an analysis of these kind of figures might shed some light as to how exposed Sony really is, over those arbitrary $337 x 70 million accounts figures.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
statham said:
sony so fucked up how anyone can argue, really. the hackers are smarter then sony? then they fucked up. best protection gets beat by a group of unemployed hackers? you dun fucked up. you know the inside and outside of you system but some street kids stole all your passwords? you dun fucked up.
I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or simply meh at your ignorance.
 
low-G said:
I was joking about the wifi password. It would take an incredibly long time to brute force my wifi password, it is many many times more complex (billions to the billionth power or probably more) than a cred card number.

Ahh! Yeah, I meant to say WEP encryption, not WPA2. WEP takes a couple of hours to couple of days to decrypt. WPA/WPA2? Not so much.
 

Jburton

Banned
hauton said:
I'm curious how bad this actually is... do we have information/estimates on stuff like

- # of unique PSN accounts
- # of active accounts
- # of accounts with CC info attached
- # of Qriocity subscribers (who must certainly have CC info attached?)
- Sales revenue of PSN cards, or a breakdown of how many use CC vs cards?

I'm guessing some of this is pie in the sky, but an analysis of these kind of figures might shed some light as to how exposed Sony really is, over those arbitrary $337 x 70 million accounts figures.

Infinitely less than that astronomical sum being quoted around the net.
 

statham

Member
vilmer_ said:
now

edit: if you think I;m wrong bring it. I can and have admitted when I wrong. but some of these dumb ass responses are laughable. wat? wat? wat? homie? wat. I'll kill U! wat? wat?
 

paskowitz

Member
statham said:
sony so fucked up how anyone can argue, really. the hackers are smarter then sony? then they fucked up. best protection gets beat by a group of unemployed hackers? you dun fucked up. you know the inside and outside of you system but some street kids stole all your passwords? you dun fucked up.

Do not belittle the possible intelligence of these "street kids". You are entitled to your views, but logically this is a silly view. Do you know who these hackers are, how sophisticated or simple their methods they used were, the structure of Sony's security system... no. So saying what you are saying the way you are saying it, is, silly. Sony probably could have invested more in their information security, that is the only reasonable assumption possible based on the information available.

Now, how the internal security system of the PS3 is structured, I will give you that, they done fucked up.
 

Averon

Member
ZZMitch said:
Sony made mistakes and fucked up. The hackers are fucking assholes who should go to jail.

Pretty simple really.

But we don't have any proof Sony fucked up, just that PSN was hacked.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Ickman3400 said:
So does anyone have any idea if we'll be able to change our password via the website or will it have to be from this firmware thing only? I figure if they have my info they could just sign in to the website and change shit before I can so maybe they won't reactivate that part right away. Wouldn't want to have an exposed account.
The pages on websites where this sort of thing could be changed or accesed are all down as well.
 

Jburton

Banned
baekshi said:
Does anyone have a information from Sony Korea?

The social security numbers.....


Nothing released so far from what I can tell.

Are social security numbers required for PSN sign ups in Korea?
 
jim-jam bongs said:
Class action lawsuits are used in the US because there is very little consumer protection enshrined in legislation. It's often the only way to give a company the slap on the wrist that they need to be given in these circumstances.

As I said, I don't think that Sony is being treated as a special case. Your memory must be very short, because last year Gmail got hacked via a backdoor which is used by law-enforcement agencies, and Google copped it from all sides. This is not exclusive to Sony.

Lastly, I work in this field so I'm not unsympathetic to the argument that there is no such thing as a 100% secure system. However, the results of the independent investigation being undertaken need to be made public in my opinion so that the public can assess whether or not Sony was just an unfortunate victim or if they failed to adequately secure the data they were collecting.

exactly. this is what i have repeated again and again is that everyone is acting like all the information is in when it is not. sony isn't conducting the investigation, an outside party is. and there are also tons of legal implications involved with how much information you make public, because it could only hurt your ability to make sure your enemy doesn't figure out how to get back in. small mis-wordings can bring them a tidal wave of legal problems.

and yes, i remember the gmail case. if you want to go comb this thread for more examples of hacking stories that somehow flew under the radar be my guest.

i feel like there's (get ready for another one of my shitty analogies) a building with laser grids and cameras and all these security measures and they got broken into, and now they're in trouble. but another building across the street with wooden doors, no electricity, and without any locks installed, but because nobody broke into their place they aren't subject to any sort of punishment or investigation as to making sure they are up to code.

ie: it's not a matter of how good the security is but the fact that someone attacked them or not. that's what i specifically find to be bullshit.

i'd also hardly call a class action lawsuit a slap on the wrist. especially if there's a payout and they do it per user- considering there are people with multiple accounts. it could be exploited, but that's beside the point and something for discussion later down the road should anything come to fruition.
 

snorggy

Member
jim-jam bongs said:
Class action lawsuits are used in the US because there is very little consumer protection enshrined in legislation. It's often the only way to give a company the slap on the wrist that they need to be given in these circumstances.

As I said, I don't think that Sony is being treated as a special case. Your memory must be very short, because last year Gmail got hacked via a backdoor which is used by law-enforcement agencies, and Google copped it from all sides. This is not exclusive to Sony.

Lastly, I work in this field so I'm not unsympathetic to the argument that there is no such thing as a 100% secure system. However, the results of the independent investigation being undertaken need to be made public in my opinion so that the public can assess whether or not Sony was just an unfortunate victim or if they failed to adequately secure the data they were collecting.

if there is no such thing as a 100% secure system, how do you define what is adequately secure? not being snarky.. serious question.
 

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
seat said:
I know he's not really throwing it out, but I never thought I'd see the day he'd post a video of this nature.

lol, I know, that rubbish bin seemed very conveniently cushioned as he gently tossed it in there.
 

Jburton

Banned
Averon said:
But we don't have any proof Sony fucked up, just that PSN was hacked.


Exactly, if anything the newest info from Sony in the FAQ it seems things are not bad as once perceived and their security as they state it is not as questionable either.

Time will tell on this, all we can do is wait and find out.
 
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