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[Robb]

Sounds great! And it’s only going to get better, more widespread, and utilized when both Ps6 and “Switch 2” join in.

 

[YCoCg]

More like 1.0

Have people forgot how bad DLSS 1 was?

 

[DAHGAMING]

Didnt AMD help with PSSR ? I think one of them Digital Foundry gangsters said somthing along those lines. It made me think FSR4 may be similar to what were getting with PSSR.

Its good to have all these different upscalers as they have to push each other, im excited for the coming yrs and the improvements we will see.

DLSS is still the best it seems and would imagine it will stay that way, but PSSR seems close and I feel FSR4 will be right up there aswell. We will see what Microsoft have to offer with there next box of dreams but hopefully it will be right up there with the others.

 

[rofif]

I think FSR, even 3.0 is mostly garbage. Way too many artifacts and in motion creates distorted images. I usually just lower the resolution and just reap the performance gains if DLSS/TSR is not available. FSR has a performance cost too. Not worth it.

Fsr it’s so trash I would’ve preferred games to just use taa instead. It breaks up constantly.
Now pssr really is as good as dlss

 

[Life Diff]

Not sure it's on par with DLSS but the most surprising game for me was last of us part 1. There is a noticeable difference to Image quality with Pro mode engaged.

 

[Ozriel]

Calculating a “fair price” by assessing hardware alone does not make much sense, as gamers usually make their decision based on new experiences offered by a device, and not based on the hardware alone.

He was doing fine until he got to this point. To be fair, that’s the most subjective part of the interview.

No matter how much better the experience is, the more logical thing to do is look at the hardware on offer to determine the value for money. Pretty much why there’d be an uproar if Nvidia launched the 5090 at an MSRP of $3500

 

[Clintizzle]

PSSR is just waiting for tools.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Based on TLOU1/2 PS5Pro screenshots, I'm not impressed with PSSR because the image looks filtered, soft, and oversharpened. As a photographer and photoshop artist, I absolutely hate that over-processed look. The image quality in TLOU1 looks much better on my PC, but I need to see more screenshots of other PS5Pro games before making definitive conclusions about PSSR, because maybe it's Naughty Dog's fault. Even DLSS can look like garbage in certain games if it's not well implemented (for example in RDR2 DLSS looks even worse than FSR).

 

[SolidQ]

Fsr it’s so trash I would’ve preferred games to just use taa instead. It breaks up constantly.

you seems have problem with FSR or your monitor. its looks fine

 

[Klosshufvud]

Based on TLOU1/2 PS5Pro screenshots, I'm not impressed with PSSR because the image looks filtered, soft, and oversharpened. As a photographer and photoshop artist, I absolutely hate that over-processed look. The image quality in TLOU1 looks much better on my PC, but I need to see more screenshots of other PS5Pro games before makind definitive conclusions about PSSR, because maybe it's Naughty Dog's fault. Even DLSS can look like garbage in certain games if it's not well implemented (for example in RDR2 DLSS looks even worse than FSR).

Filtered, soft and oversharpened are basically the graphical trends of this decade. Fuck all that's visual clarity. Fill up the screen with as many post-processing filters as possible and on top of that rely on an upscaling algorithm to upscale pixels from 800p base resolution. It's sad that games that rely on a sharp base image with great visual clarity are not what DF tech reviewers praise. I think for instance that the OG RE4 is way easier on the eyes at a high resolution than the overfiltered RE4 Remake. But this goes beyond upscalers and more how devs rely more on engine-generated post-processing over prebaked assets.

 

[SolidQ]

I think for instance that the OG RE4 is way easier on the eyes at a high resolution than the overfiltered RE4 Remake.

I'm playing sometimes old games and almost all old games have super clear image. Sadly we now have soap/low quality image in games

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Filtered, soft and oversharpened are basically the graphical trends of this decade. Fuck all that's visual clarity. Fill up the screen with as many post-processing filters as possible and on top of that rely on an upscaling algorithm to upscale pixels from 800p base resolution. It's sad that games that rely on a sharp base image with great visual clarity are not what DF tech reviewers praise. I think for instance that the OG RE4 is way easier on the eyes at a high resolution than the overfiltered RE4 Remake. But this goes beyond upscalers and more how devs rely more on engine-generated post-processing over prebaked assets.

Funny you mention the RE4 remake, because I'm playing that game right now. The TAA image in this game is soft, but reshade CAS sharpening + a little bit of luma sharpening helps a lot (with my settings the image is sharp, but not oversharpened). With ingame 150% resolution scale on top of that I get perfect image quality in this game.

I can use this combination (reshade sharpening filter + downscaling) in most games on PC, so I always get perfect image clarity that way, even if TAA implementation is very soft.

 

[Vick]

In no way is PSSR close to the current version of DLSS. It’s an absolute joke to even suggest it. More like 1.0

Here a DLAA shot showing the missing branches with DLSS are supposed to be there.

While the above fur shots are not direct comparisons with DLSS, it's currently impossible on PC to get rid of this kind of dithered fur edges PSSR is resolving.
For the time being DLSS looks like it has a stability advantage, and could be producing slightly sharper results. But when it comes to the latter it's hard to tell for sure because sharpness setting in Ratchet don't match, and AW2 pictures are sourced differently.
On the other hand PSSR would appear to better handle aliasing, and has a more convincing fur rendering along with, in some ways, vegetation.

Based on TLOU1/2 PS5Pro screenshots, I'm not impressed with PSSR because the image looks filtered, soft, and oversharpened. As a photographer and photoshop artist, I absolutely hate that over-processed look. The image quality in TLOU1 looks much better on my PC, but I need to see more screenshots of other PS5Pro games before makind definitive conclusions about PSSR, because maybe it's Naughty Dog's fault. Even DLSS can look like garbage in certain games if it's not well implemented (for example in RDR2 DLSS looks even worse than FSR).

Hey brother, Part 1 was the first PSSR game I've tried and I had my jaw on the floor. The final result is entirely dependent on their choices pre-PSSR pass (like their sharpness filter), but I I've found the image to be perfect on my panel. Absolutely insane IQ, I was legitimately shocked to see this kind of image at 60fps with impeccable solidity and stability while panning. Could you please post an equivalent of one of these screenshots on your PC, for comparison?

Max grain is enabled on all of these screenshots unfortunately as it does impact the image a little, but click on them and zoom to see full size level of detail, here an example:

1:1

1:1

You can notice how their choices dictated the final result, but damn it's so damn appealing to me in motion. All the issues I had with the recent patch on base PS5 (removal/alteration of their TAA, oversharpen look, less color shades, dithered hair) are completely gone while playing in Pro Mode. Below comparison was made from compressed jpg screenshots:

PSSR does such a great job at solving those kind of issues:

Only issues I have at the moment with its current version is how it doesn't perfectly resolve stuff like dust micro particles in Part I, as they blur and trail a little, and same for water alpha transparencies. But as for the rest it's a complete game changer for console gaming.

 

[Klosshufvud]

Funny you mention the RE4 remake, because I'm playing that game right now. The TAA image in this game is soft, but reshade CAS sharpening + a little bit of luma sharpening helps a lot (with my settings the image is sharp, but not oversharpened). With ingame 150% resolution scale on top of that I get perfect image in this game.

I can use this combination (reshade sharpening filter + downscaling) in most games on PC, so I always get perfect image clarity that way, even if TAA implementation is very soft.

Mind sharing some photos? In both light and dark environments? I feel like reshade has good use in certain places but falters in terms of consistency. Downsampling is always a reliable way to bruteforce a sharp image.

 

[Gaiff]

you seems have problem with FSR or your monitor. its looks fine

On a console sometimes with sub-1080p internal resolution? No, it doesn't.

 

[Lysandros]

how so? PS5 Pro runs on AMD hardware.
"PSSR" aka AMD DLSS equivalent will eventually make it into AMD GPUs.

PSSR is PSSR. A platform specific reconstruction solution using PS5 PRO's custom ML hardware. I don't see how there is such certainty it being "AMD's (future) DLSS" 1:1. It can share some 'similarities' like all those algorithms do but this won't make it PSSR literally.

 

[SolidQ]

On a console sometimes with sub-1080p internal resolution? No, it doesn't.

That every upscaling at lower resolution based on the game. Some games good/some bad

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

That's what it's felt like to me too based on everything I've seen too.

Well that firmly knocked me off the fence.

 

[winjer]

PSSR is PSSR. A platform specific reconstruction solution using PS5 PRO's custom ML hardware. I don't see how there is such certainty it being "AMD's (future) DLSS" 1:1. It can share some 'similarities' like all those algorithms do but this won't make it PSSR literally.

The hardware is the same. Be it with WMMA or an NPU, they are AMD solutions.
It's the software that differentiates the PS5 from PC.

 

[SyberWolf]

PSSR is PSSR. A platform specific reconstruction solution using PS5 PRO's custom ML hardware. I don't see how there is such certainty it being "AMD's (future) DLSS" 1:1. It can share some 'similarities' like all those algorithms do but this won't make it PSSR literally.

could be that it is not 1:1 who knows, you would be surprised what some companies do.
i am sure AMD has a deal with Sony, in the end it is still a AMD chip.
would be a waste not to take advantage of it.

AMD aims to catch up to Nvidia's DLSS with "neural supersampling"

The latest FSR 3.1 release this year brought significantly improved stability over previous versions. However, there's still room for improvement with denoising path-traced frames.

www.techspot.com

https://www.techspot.com/news/104715-amd-fsr-4-transition-pure-ai-upscaling-following.html

 

[YeulEmeralda]

DLSS v1 or DLSS 3.5?

And I'm betting that Nvidia is cooking something up for their new 5000 range.

 

[rofif]

you seems have problem with FSR or your monitor. its looks fine

On my monitor?
lol fsr is just bad. It’s dirty look

 

[Lysandros]

The hardware is the same. Be it with WMMA or an NPU, they are AMD solutions.
It's the software that differentiates the PS5 from PC.

Hardware may well not be quite the same (as in standard AMD PC arc) if those are customized for Sony's specific needs like the precedents we have in PS5. Remember Cerny's presentation in Road to PS5. PS5 does feature custom hardware not present in AMD PC hardware like the ID buffer, (APU) I/O complex, Cache Scrubbers ("just for us") etc. AMD did not design those, but the integration was a conjoint effort for sure.

 

[winjer]

Hardware may well not be quite the same (as in standard AMD PC arc) if those are customized for Sony's specific needs like the precedents we have in PS5. Remember Cerny's presentation in Road to PS5. PS5 does feature custom hardware not present in AMD PC hardware like the ID buffer, (APU) I/O complex, Cache Scrubbers ("just for us") etc. AMD did not design those, but the integration was a conjoint effort for sure.

And what do you think it's custom for the ML capabilities of the Pro?

 

[winjer]

On my monitor?
lol fsr is just bad. It’s dirty look

Try using FSR3.1 mod, instead of FSR2.
You can use things such as Optiscaler, DLSS Enabler or Uniscaler. They can be injected on almost all games that have DLSS.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So much insecurity and salt in this thread

 

[Gaiff]

And I'm betting that Nvidia is cooking something up for their new 5000 range.

That they’ll artificially lock to it once again.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I find it a bit amazing Sony was able to build this tech that quickly. Maybe DSLL isn't that hard to develop as many of us think it was.

 

[SF Kosmo]

AMD's lack of AI performance is really killing them.

 

[rofif]

Try using FSR3.1 mod, instead of FSR2.
You can use things such as Optiscaler, DLSS Enabler or Uniscaler. They can be injected on almost all games that have DLSS.

No thanks. No need to do it on pc if dlss exists. 3 is just same as 2 but with added frame gen.

 

[hinch7]

Based on TLOU1/2 PS5Pro screenshots, I'm not impressed with PSSR because the image looks filtered, soft, and oversharpened. As a photographer and photoshop artist, I absolutely hate that over-processed look. The image quality in TLOU1 looks much better on my PC, but I need to see more screenshots of other PS5Pro games before making definitive conclusions about PSSR, because maybe it's Naughty Dog's fault. Even DLSS can look like garbage in certain games if it's not well implemented (for example in RDR2 DLSS looks even worse than FSR).

Yeah way oversharpened in TLOU.. almost at the point of some images looking like water paintings. Would look a lot better if they dialed it down a notch or two. If the base resolution is high enough it shouldn't need that much.

 

[Schmendrick]

Edit: was too dumb to read

 

[winjer]

No thanks. No need to do it on pc if dlss exists. 3 is just same as 2 but with added frame gen.

It's not. FSR 3.0 still has the same upscaling code from FSR2.2
But FSR 3.1 has newer code, with much improved image quality.
Not as good as DLSS, that is for sure.

 

[bbeach123]

FSR implementation vary from game to game , even FSR 3.1 . Some its playable (at FSR quality 1440p+ , below this settings its still pretty bad) , some its look fcking digusting . Idk why most (or all?) UE5 game FSR look terrible .

Sony's implementation of FSR (on pc) pretty playable tho .

 

[Lysandros]

And what do you think it's custom for the ML capabilities of the Pro?

Besides from (possibly further tweaked) RDNA 3/4 CU based ML instructions, i also think there is a helper dedicated block (might be a complex) in the vain of hardware ID buffer with much higher TOPs efficiency. That's all i can think about based on Sony statements about the feature and the leaks. We will need further info for specifics. I don't think we will have as much offical info as base PS5 hardware sadly (due to public reaction to Cerny's original presentation).

 

[winjer]

Besides from (possibly further tweaked) RDNA 3/4 CU based ML instructions, i also think there is a helper dedicated block (might be a complex) in the vain of hardware ID buffer with much higher TOPs efficiency. That's all i can think about based on Sony statements about the feature and the leaks. We will need further info for specifics. I don't think we will have as much offical info as base PS5 hardware sadly (due to public reaction to Cerny's original presentation).

You are reading way too much into what Sony and MS say when stating "custom hardware".
It's just tweaks and adaptations for a console.
My bet is that the Pro uses WMMA from RDNA3 or RDNA4. Or maybe the NPU from Strix Point, which is based on CDNA2 ML block.

 

[Esppiral]

Better than fsr is not something to be proud of , on par with DLLS?

 

[Lysandros]

You are reading way too much into what Sony and MS say when stating "custom hardware".
It's just tweaks and adaptations for a console.
My bet is that the Pro uses WMMA from RDNA3 or RDNA4. Or maybe the NPU from Strix Point, which is based on CDNA2 ML block.

"An actual custom silicon AI upscaler, which performs the upscaling, anti-aliasing and frees up a lot the GPU to render pure graphics." In addition to Cerny's "we added custom hardware for maching learning". You would think Sony representatives including the chief hardware architect of the machine would choose their words carefully and deliberately on this occasion... I don't think i am reading too much into it, no. Fine if you do and think they are being somewhat deceitful. I mean if they are "lying" (this all comes to it at the end no need to put it mildly) with a cool face that's on them, and they 100% should be held accountable, but i find this possibility to be unlikely.

 

[winjer]

"An actual custom silicon AI upscaler, which performs the upscaling, anti-aliasing and frees up a lot the GPU to render pure graphics." In addition to Cerny's "we added custom hardware for maching learning". You would think Sony representatives including the chief hardware architect of the machine would choose their words carefully and deliberately on this occasion... I don't think i am reading too much into it, no. Fine if you do and think they are being somewhat deceitful. I mean if they are "lying" (this all comes to it at the end no need to put it mildly) with a cool face that's on them, and they 100% should be held accountable, but i find this possibility to be unlikely.

That is WMMA or an NPU.
It's just a dedicated unit that operates on matrices.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

We need more acronyms

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

That's what it's felt like to me too based on everything I've seen too.

What were you expecting? The Pro is supposed to be the PS5 perfected and not the PS6.

The PS4 pro was definitely a bigger leap because it provided upscaled 4K and better fps which wasn’t an option at all on the base ps4.

The PS5 pro doesn’t really do anything dramatically different from the base ps5 for most games which makes it a harder sell compared to the ps4 pro but that’s obviously going to change over time. I think we will start to see bigger differences for the new games especially Sony first party games that are built with the ps5 pro in mind from the start.

 

[adamsapple]

The PS4 pro was definitely a bigger leap because it provided upscaled 4K and better fps which wasn’t an option at all on the base ps4.

Pretty much. The jump from 1080p to 2160p was much bigger (granted the vast majority of PS4 Pro enhanced games didn't reach 4K, but on principal it was a bigger leap to correlate with the massive increase of 4K displays between in the 2010's.

 

[Topher]

The PS4 pro was definitely a bigger leap because it provided upscaled 4K and better fps which wasn’t an option at all on the base ps4.

The PS5 pro doesn’t really do anything dramatically different from the base ps5 for most games which makes it a harder sell compared to the ps4 pro but that’s obviously going to change over time. I think we will start to see bigger differences for the new games especially Sony first party games that are built with the ps5 pro in mind from the start.

Pretty much. The jump from 1080p to 2160p was much bigger (granted the vast majority of PS4 Pro enhanced games didn't reach 4K, but on principal it was a bigger leap to correlate with the massive increase of 4K displays between in the 2010's.

PS4 Pro was a resolution leap but most games were limited to 30fps. Same was true for Xbox One X, for the most part. So resolution/image quality is only one part of the equation here, but maintaining that while improving frame rate is quite a leap in itself. That's what PS5 Pro and PSSR was designed to do.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Mind sharing some photos? In both light and dark environments? I feel like reshade has good use in certain places but falters in terms of consistency. Downsampling is always a reliable way to bruteforce a sharp image.

Here's my Resident Evil 4 Remake comparison. TAA produces a clean and jaggy free image, but it also filters out fine details and softens edge contrast (unlike good old MSAA / SMAA). If you increase the resolution scale that ugly TAA filtering is no longer as visible, and by adding JUST A LITTLE BIT of sharpening you get not only a clean looking image, but also sharp edges. Thanks to these changes, the fine details of distant textures come to life and people can finally see what their 4K screens are capable of.

1. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
2. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
3. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
4. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
5. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale

I always say, TAA native image quality may look normal to normal people, but if you know what you are missing, you will definitely notice the TAA blur. If people played old games with excellent MSAA / SMAA, then they know that fine details should pop even on distant textures (TAA native will filter them).

DLSS (especially 3.7.2) does not blur fine details as aggressively as standard TAA, and can produce a clean and sharp image without downscaling, although I still like to use a little bit of rehsade sharpening. Here's my 4K DLSS Quality (1440p internally) screenshots from horizon remaster.

• Horizon Remaster DLSSQ screenshot 1
• Horizon Remaster DLSSQ screenshot 2
• Horizon Remaster DLSSQ screenshot 3
• Horizon Remaster DLSSQ screenshot 4

I hope PSSR can produce similar results, because then console gamers will get a really sharp and detailed image on their 4K TVs and see what they have been missing for so many years. IMO even 4K DLSS Performance (1080p internally) looks reasonably good compared to PS5 games running in performance modes.

• Horizon Remaster DLSSP screenshot
• Silent Hill Remake DLSSP screenshot 1
• Silent Hill Remake DLSSP screenshot 2
• Black Myth DLSSP screenshot 1
• Black Myth DLSSP screenshot 2
• Black Myth DLSSP screenshot 3​

And for comparison, here's how Black Mythos Wukong's image quality looks on the PS5

• Black Myth PS5 performance mode screenshot 1
• Black Myth P55 performance mode screenshot 2
• Black Myth PS5 performance mode screenshot 3

 

[Klosshufvud]

Here's my Resident Evil 4 Remake comparison. TAA produces a clean and jaggy image, but it also filters out fine details and softens edge contrast (unlike good old MSAA / SMAA). If you increase the resolution scale that the TAA filtering is no longer visible, ale by adding JUST A LITTLE BIT of sharpening you get not only a clean looking image, but also sharp. Thanks to these changes, the fine details of distant textures come to life and people can finally see what their 4K screens are capable of.

1. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
2. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
3. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
4. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale
5. 
   4K Reshade + 150% resolution scale
   4K 100% resolution scale

Thanks. Yeah both the detail on Leon and the details far off are superior with your Reshade settings. Image 4 does highlight my issue with the game and a lot of RE Engine games. The light sources don't correlate at all to how dim the scene is. Like it's way darker than it should be. And sometimes it's way brighter. It's like there is no actual light sources. Objects that can be seemingly really close to you and with an apparent source light shining on it can be basically impossible to distinguish the details on. For me this this makes no sense at all. It feels like I'm just looking at different filters depending on where I am in the game. When Capcom relied more on prebaked lighting, the artists made sure the lighting would make sense. Those touches are gone now.

 

[Zathalus]

PSSR does appear to be worse at one thing right now, it’s apparently a bit heavier to run vs DLSS. But I’d assume that is down to it running via WMMA as opposed to dedicated Tensor cores.

 

[Rayderism]

I wonder if PSSR is just FSR that's using A.I. to clear up the aberrations that FSR creates by default.

 

[ap_puff]

PSSR does appear to be worse at one thing right now, it’s apparently a bit heavier to run vs DLSS. But I’d assume that is down to it running via WMMA as opposed to dedicated Tensor cores.

Is it really using WMMA and not dedicated hardware? I thought the pro was supposed to have a 300tops of dedicated hardware to handle the cost of running it

 

[Bojji]

Is it really using WMMA and not dedicated hardware? I thought the pro was supposed to have a 300tops of dedicated hardware to handle the cost of running it

I don't think we have any confirmation one way or the other.

 

[Lysandros]

Is it really using WMMA and not dedicated hardware? I thought the pro was supposed to have a 300tops of dedicated hardware to handle the cost of running it

Most of the users here think that Sony (conjointly with AMD) didn't really develop a platform specific custom ML hardware despite their statements but uses a standard/vanilla RDNA 3 feature like WMMA instead and calling it "custom" for an odd reason. A bit needless to say but i am not amongst them.