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[HazukiSensei]

That would be just different not better.

The incentive for killing here is to get parts to improve your loot, pretty fucking important on the highest difficulty, an hunger meter would just transform the game in yet another survival game and not everyone care about hunger and food gathering, have you thought about that?

We get it, you like real dinosaurs, i like them too, monster hunter is one of my favourite franchises, it doesn't mean that guerrilla made a mistake by having dinobots instead of real dinos, you just personally want a different game.

Food gathering is a more immersive system that you mentally would have more of a visceral connection to than gathering just parts; especially if it worked like snake eater to where they would rot over time etc.

And snake eater wasnt exactly just survival because of that.

My point is the robots behaving like dinosaurs doesnt even make fucking sense. If you want dinosaurs, make dinosaurs. These motherfuckers wanted dinos, but didnt go all the way. They went for an easier design choice. It was easier to do robots, plain and simple. THATS why we have robots.

And if you have the creative IQ of a rock, then yeah, all you can envision is dinos running around being bullet sponges. This is why not everyone is a brilliant director or something, some people are just more creative than others, and others just consume.

 

[GymWolf]

Don't feed the dino-troll people.

 

[GymWolf]

Food gathering is a more immersive system that you mentally would have more of a visceral connection to than gathering just parts; especially if it worked like snake eater to where they would rot over time etc.

And snake eater wasnt exactly just survival because of that.

My point is the robots behaving like dinosaurs doesnt even make fucking sense. If you want dinosaurs, make dinosaurs. These motherfuckers wanted dinos, but didnt go all the way. They went for an easier design choice. It was easier to do robots, plain and simple. THATS why we have robots.

They don't behave like dinos, they only look like it for a precise lore reason.

Is it the strongest reason in the world? No, but it's good enough for people who enjoyed the lore.

Again, you simply want a different game.

 

[HazukiSensei]

I'm convinced that robot dinosaurs was the original vision because it seems like the only interesting thing about the series. Obviously someone at Guerrilla piped up with 'what about ROBOT dinosaurs?!' and everyone was like oh god yes, then they just built the most generic possible scifi story around that seed.

It's probably the only really creative thought to come out of Guerrilla in its existence.

I'm not hating on the game either lol. I quite like it. But it's very by the numbers.

I agree, and real dinos would just require more creativity and techbical ambition to make work. So robots is what we got.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I agree, and real dinos would just require more creativity and techbical ambition to make work. So robots is what we got.

I think we would all like more creativity - but it is clear that the devs don't have much left to give. Otherwise we would have something far more ambitious than another forgettable generic open world Ubisoft clone with a bland and boring protag.

 

[HazukiSensei]

They don't behave like dinos, they only look like it for a precise lore reason.

Is it the strongest reason in the world? No, but it's good enough for people who enjoyed the lore.

Again, you simply want a different game.

Yeah but im breaking the 4th wall here and analyzing the fact that dinos were clearly a vision of what this game would be at one point. They even gave the people archaic clothes, dreadlocks and weapons (mixed with modern) to mimic aspects of what would be prehistoric man.

They found an easier way to go about it. And that was robo dinos.

 

[HazukiSensei]

I think we would all like more creativity - but it is clear that the devs don't have much left to give. Otherwise we would have something far more ambitious than another forgettable generic open world Ubisoft clone with a bland and boring protag.

I agree, which is why im surprised people are fighting me on the idea that guerilla isnt exactly a great symbol of creative ambition.

What im talking aboit could be done, were there. We jist are in an age of devs,publishers wanting a profit, and to create a system thats relatively easy for them to produce without much creative brainstorming. They dont have to break new ground so to speak, whereas the shit im talking about would require that mentality.

 

[CamHostage]

Um... clouds?

 

[Kataploom]

Then they'll wonder:
- Why are costs so high?
- Why are dev times so long?
- Why is a "technically inferior" japanese game with 1/10th of budget sells 5 times more in half the time?

Whenever I see these stuff I just can think on they putting too much money, time and effort of shit nobody will care more than on actual gameplay...

 

[Hunnybun]

Yeah but im breaking the 4th wall here and analyzing the fact that dinos were clearly a vision of what this game would be at one point. They even gave the people archaic clothes, dreadlocks and weapons (mixed with modern) to mimic aspects of what would be prehistoric man.

They found an easier way to go about it. And that was robo dinos.

This has to be trolling. Well played if so lol.

 

[GymWolf]

I forgot that every horizon topic turns into shit here on gaf...

 

[TheRedRiders]

Why TF should I stop my opinions for you bub? Get lost.

To save yourself from embarrassment but I fear it's too late.

The first horizon narrative was shamelessly ripped off of mass effect, and it's robots are contrived as hell. And what lore? Let's not turn this into elden ring. The writing in these games is amateur hour at best.

"what lore?" have you even played the games? lmao

The backstory deals with humans who were overly ambitious in their vision for AI, terraforming and climate change...people like Ted Faro (who reminds me Musk). More importantly it deals with the idea of what happens when these technologies become out of control which is what Faro's technology leads to, and ultimately causes the destruction of the Earth's biosphere.

Then there's Sobeck who develops the AI terraforming system which will restore the planets biosphere through several means one of them being the the robotic animals. Aloy being the only one who can access these technologies because of her genetics.

Then there's the Far Zenith's who we see in the second game, wealthy and technically advanced humans who colonized an Earth like planet near the star Sirius during the catastrophe, who manage to also achieve immortality amongst many other things.

I could go into significantly more detail but I could care less about trying to convince you. My point is the games lore and story deal and tackle deeply a lot thematic problems we face in the world today like the threat of AI, climate change, terraforming systems, virtual reality, gene editing, cloning, the burden and responsibility of technological advancement, the role of science and religion, the anthropological behavior of humans post-catastrophe (tribes, colors and traditions). I haven't even gotten into the symbolism which the game presents, especially it's links to Biblical legends and Abrahamic/Enochian traditions which it was very likely influenced by.

The game has one of the most intricately woven backstories I've ever seen, and it's not wrapped in tons pointless obscurity like ER.

 

[GymWolf]

TheRedRiders if you like to delve on the lore, the "random sidequest" channel is full choke of material, even the more obscure stuff like vast silver etc.

 

[decisions]

I really want to like this game but it just never clicks for me.

Best graphics in the industry. But they forgot everything else. Awful characters, boring quests, and clunky, unsatisfying combat.

 

[Luigi Mario]

 

[hyperbertha]

To save yourself from embarrassment but I fear it's too late.



"what lore?" have you even played the games? lmao

The backstory deals with humans who were overly ambitious in their vision for AI, terraforming and climate change...people like Ted Faro (who reminds me Musk). More importantly it deals with the idea of what happens when these technologies become out of control which is what Faro's technology leads to, and ultimately causes the destruction of the Earth's biosphere.

Then there's Sobeck who develops the AI terraforming system which will restore the planets biosphere through several means one of them being the the robotic animals. Aloy being the only one who can access these technologies because of her genetics.

Then there's the Far Zenith's who we see in the second game, wealthy and technically advanced humans who colonized an Earth like planet near the star Sirius during the catastrophe, who manage to also achieve immortality amongst many other things.

I could go into significantly more detail but I could care less about trying to convince you. My point is the games lore and story deal and tackle deeply a lot thematic problems we face in the world today like the threat of AI, climate change, terraforming systems, virtual reality, gene editing, cloning, the burden and responsibility of technological advancement, the role of science and religion, the anthropological behavior of humans post-catastrophe (tribes, colors and traditions). I haven't even gotten into the symbolism which the game presents, especially it's links to Biblical legends and Abrahamic/Enochian traditions which it was very likely influenced by.

The game has one of the most intricately woven backstories I've ever seen, and it's not wrapped in tons pointless obscurity like ER.

Get off your high horse. The only one embarassing themselves is you, with your reverence for the clichefest that is horizon's plot. I enjoyed the first one's gameplay, on ultra hard difficulty. But its story was so ho hum, played out and utterly predictable, its writing filled with the most one dimensional characters in existence, and its lore so shallow, derivative and preachy, its a joke any one could take it seriously. I mean its story is literally the mass effect's reapers replaced with the swarm robots.

 

[HazukiSensei]

This has to be trolling. Well played if so lol.

You'd rather play the mecha dinos?

 

[Trogdor1123]

Dino bots 4 lyfe!

 

[Hunnybun]

You'd rather play the mecha dinos?

That's irrelevant. Your entire argument is completely ludicrous.

 

[Games of Today]

I'll bite on this Dino topic lol. Since Far Zenith is in HFW and they are so technically advanced Guerilla still has a chance to do actual dinosaurs.

Alloy discovers secret Far Zenith technology that's hidden from even the Far Zenith founders. Boom, time travel. LOL

 

[HazukiSensei]

That's irrelevant. Your entire argument is completely ludicrous.

Im just speaking out loud here. Talkin games. I basically am a dude thats just saying that the game would be more interesting with real dinosaurs in the prehistoric era. And I gave vivid examples as to why I think thats the case, some even agreed with me here.

I also think that the dino bots are a short cut.

So which part is ludicrous? And I ask would you rather play as the dino bots, because if you also know that dinosaurs would be more interesting, then my point is made. So it is relevant.

 

[HazukiSensei]

I'll bite on this Dino topic lol. Since Far Zenith is in HFW and they are so technically advanced Guerilla still has a chance to do actual dinosaurs.

Alloy discovers secret Far Zenith technology that's hidden from even the Far Zenith founders. Boom, time travel. LOL

And they should do that, because if they want to continue this franchise that would be a major refresher and give it new life.

But I literally doubt they would on the sole basis that its alot harder to pull off.

 

[CamHostage]

Im just speaking out loud here. Talkin games...

How about talkin clouds?
You know, the topic.

Or, how about everybody stop bumping this thread and nobody had to speak out loud at each other anymore unless they have a hot cloud take?

 

[Hunnybun]

Im just speaking out loud here. Talkin games. I basically am a dude thats just saying that the game would be more interesting with real dinosaurs in the prehistoric era. And I gave vivid examples as to why I think thats the case, some even agreed with me here.

I also think that the dino bots are a short cut.

So which part is ludicrous? And I ask would you rather play as the dino bots, because if you also know that dinosaurs would be more interesting, then my point is made. So it is relevant.

Sorry are you the nutcase who was saying that Guerrilla only went with robots because they were easier? That's what I was referring to.

 

[HazukiSensei]

Sorry are you the nutcase who was saying that Guerrilla only went with robots because they were easier? That's what I was referring to.

I suppose so, many here actually agree that rendering the flesh, facial animations, skeletal animations, feedback, and behavioral differences would be a more daunting task to do in a believable ambitious way (not in a monster hunter way) than rendering a metallic robot where alot of that isnt necessary.

Why is this a crazy take?

 

[HazukiSensei]

How about talkin clouds?
You know, the topic.

Or, how about everybody stop bumping this thread and nobody had to speak out loud at each other anymore unless they have a hot cloud take?

Fuck them clouds

 

[Hunnybun]

I suppose so, many here actually agree that rendering the flesh, facial animations, skeletal animations, feedback, and behavioral differences would be a more daunting task to do in a believable ambitious way (not in a monster hunter way) than rendering a metallic robot where alot of that isnt necessary.

Why is this a crazy take?

Because just because it's plausible doesn't make it LIKELY.

It's probably no more than a 1% chance of actually being true.

Not to mention, the models in Horizon are also spectacularly complicated, so it's a real stretch to say they were only designed as a labour saving measure.

It's a crackpot theory.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Real Dinos would suck hard.

 

[Kaleinc]

And the cloud yelled:
get that fat ugly face outta here

 

[HazukiSensei]

Because just because it's plausible doesn't make it LIKELY.

It's probably no more than a 1% chance of actually being true.

Not to mention, the models in Horizon are also spectacularly complicated, so it's a real stretch to say they were only designed as a labour saving measure.

It's a crackpot theory.

Maybe I'd just like to believe that guerilla isnt so lame that they actually thought this was a cooler idea.

But then again, even upon thinking about what I'd rather render in a pinch with a deadline, robots would be the way to go lol

Im just not agreeing that an emotionless, feedbackless, robot is a more difficult render than an ambitious believable living breathing creature withits own facial animations and skeletal structure.

Now if your brain is thinking "monster hunter" or some other basic example, then sure, i can see why you'd think its comparable. But im sure a team like guerilla didnt want to do that, they definately atleast thought about it

 

[HazukiSensei]

Real Dinos would suck hard.

Robots are lame for same reason shooting robots in overwatch 2 singleplayer is lame.
Or if doom replaced all the enemies with robots lol

Unless you are thinking of a bullet sponge monster hunter like experience, I cant see how you would prefer robots

 

[midnightAI]

Yeah but im breaking the 4th wall here and analyzing the fact that dinos were clearly a vision of what this game would be at one point. They even gave the people archaic clothes, dreadlocks and weapons (mixed with modern) to mimic aspects of what would be prehistoric man.

They found an easier way to go about it. And that was robo dinos.

Game set in future after an apocalypse created by AI.... Real dinosaurs walking around..... Yeh, makes perfect sense. Humans regressed due to lack of resources but how would you explain real dinosaurs in a future world?

The whole design aesthetic for the robot dinos is a natural evolution of Killzone Shadowfall. So much so I was convinced at one point we was going to have some sort of connection (didn't happen).

You say it's contrived/not original but there are more realistic dinosaur games (and dinosaur like such as monster hunter) than there are mech dino games. And, yes, these mech dinosaurs are more complex than any realistic dinosaurs in any other game, in fact they are up there as some of the most complex models in any game. You are really downplaying how good Guerrilla are here.

Look at the human character models in forbidden west and tell me they couldn't model realistic dinosaurs if they wanted to.

 

[Balducci30]

It would be a better thing
and yeah horizon is too basic for my liking tbh. Could be way more with that budget and talent.

Unfortunately theres not much for me out there lol people are satisfied with...this.

Yeah I’d just argue this was never in the cards - they wanted to combine robots and dinosaurs. Like that’s the hook is that it’s the combo of the two things. I’m not saying it’s great but that’s what it is. I’d love an actual dinosaur game some day

 

[HazukiSensei]

Game set in future after an apocalypse created by AI.... Real dinosaurs walking around..... Yeh, makes perfect sense. Humans regressed due to lack of resources but how would you explain real dinosaurs in a future world?

The whole design aesthetic for the robot dinos is a natural evolution of Killzone Shadowfall. So much so I was convinced at one point we was going to have some sort of connection (didn't happen).

You say it's contrived/not original but there are more realistic dinosaur games (and dinosaur like such as monster hunter) than there are mech dino games. And, yes, these mech dinosaurs are more complex than any realistic dinosaurs in any other game, in fact they are up there as some of the most complex models in any game. You are really downplaying how good Guerrilla are here.

Look at the human character models in forbidden west and tell me they couldn't model realistic dinosaurs if they wanted to.

Well obviously the story is built around the mech idea, and even then they stretched alottt just to do what? Have fucking dinosaurs. If mechs were so much more interesting than the prehistoric era, then why have them emulate fucking dinosaurs at all? Why not just have hugely complex A.I. machines roaming around that look like gundams? If thats the MAIN draw? I'll tell you why, Because the draw is that they are like dinosaurs thats why. Thats the main hook. Dino-like. Its 85% of the reason anyone gives a fuck about the game, because of the dino-like behavior.

Dinos are awesome.

and no we've never gotten a AAA studio the caliber of guerilla or naughty dog to do something with a dinosaur, so we typically have only seen a very basic iteration of the genre. Not a grand evolution to the degree of what they could do.

And I agree, they COULD do it. It would just take more work.

 

[midnightAI]

Well obviously the story is built around the mech idea, and even then they stretched alottt just to do what? Have fucking dinosaurs. If mechs were so much more interesting than the prehistoric era, then why have them emulate fucking dinosaurs at all? Why not just have hugely complex A.I. machines roaming around that look like gundams? If thats the MAIN draw? I'll tell you why, Because the draw is that they are like dinosaurs thats why. Thats the main hook. Dino-like. Its 85% of the reason anyone gives a fuck about the game, because of the dino-like behavior.

Dinos are awesome.

and no we've never gotten a AAA studio the caliber of guerilla or naughty dog to do something with a dinosaur, so we typically have only seen a very basic iteration of the genre. Not a grand evolution to the degree of what they could do.

And I agree, they COULD do it. It would just take more work.

But you are asking for a different game.

Your whole argument is they chose robots over real dinosaurs because real looking dinosaurs is too hard to do so they made them robots and I call complete bullshit on that. They could very easily have made a real dinosaur game but they didn't, they made a robot dinosaur (and other robot creatures, not just dinosaurs) set in the future.

You think real dinosaurs are cool, I think robot dinosaurs (with lasers) are cooler.

The Thunderjaw alone is:
550000 polys
271 different animations
67 different visual effects
Over 60 different hit reactions
12 different weapons
63 different components and panels to knock off to expose weak points etc


Gundam robots instead? Now that would be contrived.