mitch1971
Member
On my god, are that lot up there own arse. Hopefully I've just banned myself from that place. You can not say one thing against that wall of noise.
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Rage 2 is a fun game that makes me feel like garbage
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
On my god, are that lot up there own arse. Hopefully I've just banned myself from that place. You can not say one thing against that wall of noise.
cryogenic7
Member
Everyone should bow to me because I feel sensitive about myself....
Coolio McAwesome
Member
The purple site isn't even a discussion forum at this point. It's an ideological echo chamber run by a sad group of people who are completely unhinged from reality.
sol_bad
Member
I have a hook arm for life so I do take it as an insult. There are many more people on this planet with actual "real" deformities and disabilities. Majority of us chug along with life and adapt to the situation or continue to laugh at the jokes aimed at us. This game isn't even making jokes at anyone, it's not targeting anyone, it's just a work of fiction and the artists were probably inspired by horror movies.
The fact that he tries to pursued a developer of the game to make changes is very disturbing. He wants to change a product just because of his own insecurity that honestly is not even noticeable? Change a product for a single person? The rest of the 2-5 million people that purchase this game won't give 2 shits about the mutants.
Could you imagine if I had a whinge at the animators of Finding Nemo just because Nemo has 1 large fin and 1 small fin? The absurdity if that situation is astounding. I'd need to take a long hard look at my life if I was offending by something like that.
mcz117chief
Member
So talking with a dev at a con is a bad thing now? People can't express their opinion in order to influence someone? Why are people so triggered by a person making an observation and telling someone about it?
You wouldn't mind if half of the enemies in a game had a "hook arm"? Not everyone is that comfortable with their disability as you are, you can't generalize like that.
Why do you consider "interacting with a dev at a conference" "very disturbing"? What is so horrific about it? Are devs such babies that they can't take one person coming to them with an observation without falling apart? He isn't telling them "change the game or you are a nazi" he just told them something and the devs got his point of view, a completely normal human interaction. Nobody is advocating for changing the game because of one person's opinion.
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The Bloody-Nine
Member
Why are you so triggered by people criticising a very public article? How many days are you going to devote to defending this random person?
mcz117chief
Member
As long as people keep quoting me. The only thing I am triggered about is how triggered people feel about it, I felt like you all had thicker skin than this.
The Bloody-Nine
Member
At least you can concede that you're triggered.
mcz117chief
Member
Hell yeah
cormack12
Gold Member
So Steve Spohn is the chief operating officer of able gamers. f you wanted a microcosm of the entire issue complete with attitude and blatant disregard for interacting with polite disagreement over the last couple of years - h couldn't have nutshelled it more.
Funnily enough, the entire exchange stemmed from linking and plugging the original Polygon article......
Funnily enough, the entire exchange stemmed from linking and plugging the original Polygon article......
tassletine
Member
I think there could well be a correlation between virtue signalling and abuse. Look at Jimmy Saville, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, Catholic church etc.
Not sure if there has been a study into it, but I believe it's a psychological defense mechanism that people use when they do something they know is wrong.
Having said that, most millennials, at least the ones who are white and male and have money, grow up with a huge sense of guilt, heaped onto them by society. They could be trying to assuage that.
sol_bad
Member
I would not care if enemies in a game had the same looking arm as me no. I would find it hilarious and my friends would find it equally hilarious.
What I don't understand is, if someone is uncomfortable with something in a game, movie, comic, book or piece of music, why do they feel the need to interact with that product? Why can't they just walk away from it? Why can't they just play something else? If someone is uncomfortable with their disability, they need to work on their own confidence and become a stronger person, not try and transfer their inner pain on to external sources.
The article in question really does sound like he wanted to try and change the game and get the mutants redesigned.
mcz117chief
Member
You have a great attitude about your disability which is admirable but you can't expect everyone to be like you, you have to be a bit more considerate of others when you are dealing with subjects like race, religion or physical abnormalities, it is proper to do so.
I will give you my example. I really liked Wolfenstein the New Order but I couldn't stand the characters, B.J. and Anna were insufferable and I find them extremely unappealing but the game was fun so I bit my tongue and tried to ignore it. I beat the game and I enjoyed lots of it despite disliking the protagonist. The gameplay in the game is great which was enough for me to play despite not liking a major part of it. The same goes for this guy, he says he likes the game but doesn't feel comfortable shooting enemies with a similar handicap that he has/had. I agree that he might be a bit too dramatic about it, the whole "feeling like garbage" are some pretty strong feelings but I don't see in his head so I will have to take his word for it. At this point we can argue whether he plays the game for entertainment or because he is obligated to write a review for it. About the last part, I suppose that is a reasonable assessment to a degree, he wanted more variety in the way the enemies are designed and maybe even show that mutants can be good guys like in the Fallout universe. I myself definitely do not want any kind of pressure to be put on devs regarding their artistic freedom but that doesn't make them immune from criticism.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
It would be different if the guy had a very obvious facial deformity, but he doesn't. He looks completely normal in the shots I've seen. Why is he promoting and drawing attention to a facial deformity he doesn't even have? It's more like a case of body dysmorphic disorder than some kind of "unfair representation" of people with facial deformities.
Even if he had an obvious facial deformity, he needs to deal with and overcome his own internalized beliefs about himself, rather than asking the world to change so he can feel comfortable. The former is the path to personal growth, the latter is the path to victimhood.
Even if he had an obvious facial deformity, he needs to deal with and overcome his own internalized beliefs about himself, rather than asking the world to change so he can feel comfortable. The former is the path to personal growth, the latter is the path to victimhood.
Shelbutt
Member
When did it become so popular to bitch and moan about every little thing there is? For fucks sake. I understand people have disabilities, deformities, Things we don't like about ourselves, etc. I get it. But for gods sake going after the people who made a game that NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO FUCKING PLAY is so getting on my last nerve. Get off the internet. Don't play the game. You know, simple things to avoid being so butthurt about shit.
Like for fucks sake, I'm an overweight female who likes video games. Do you KNOW how many comments I see about 'my type' on the internet, calling them some of the most horrid things? (and I'm on the lighter side of heavy too)
Wanna know what I do about it?
Nothing. I go on my merry fucking way and deal with it.
I'll never understand why people expect everyone to walk on eggshells because something offended them.
Shit I've seen comments on this very website that hurt my feelings. And you know what? I survived
Sorry this kinda turned into a rant/ triggered moment or whatever. I'm just so tired of seeing 'WAAAA I'M A VICTIM FEED ME MY BOTTLE" bullshit
Like for fucks sake, I'm an overweight female who likes video games. Do you KNOW how many comments I see about 'my type' on the internet, calling them some of the most horrid things? (and I'm on the lighter side of heavy too)
Wanna know what I do about it?
Nothing. I go on my merry fucking way and deal with it.
I'll never understand why people expect everyone to walk on eggshells because something offended them.
Shit I've seen comments on this very website that hurt my feelings. And you know what? I survived
Sorry this kinda turned into a rant/ triggered moment or whatever. I'm just so tired of seeing 'WAAAA I'M A VICTIM FEED ME MY BOTTLE" bullshit
thief183
Member
When did it become so popular to bitch and moan about every little thing there is? For fucks sake. I understand people have disabilities, deformities, Things we don't like about ourselves, etc. I get it. But for gods sake going after the people who made a game that NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO FUCKING PLAY is so getting on my last nerve. Get off the internet. Don't play the game. You know, simple things to avoid being so butthurt about shit.
Like for fucks sake, I'm an overweight female who likes video games. Do you KNOW how many comments I see about 'my type' on the internet, calling them some of the most horrid things? (and I'm on the lighter side of heavy too)
Wanna know what I do about it?
Nothing. I go on my merry fucking way and deal with it.
I'll never understand why people expect everyone to walk on eggshells because something offended them.
Shit I've seen comments on this very website that hurt my feelings. And you know what? I survived
Sorry this kinda turned into a rant/ triggered moment or whatever. I'm just so tired of seeing 'WAAAA I'M A VICTIM FEED ME MY BOTTLE" bullshit
You can't understand probably cause your IQ is higher than 80...
matheusnienow
Neo Member
just another person thinking that things should be done specially for them
Petrae
Member
There’s a lot of stupid in a short tweet.
Plante’s indirect threat is undoubtedly stupid, but so is using work or academic e-mail to send any non-related communication. I mean, Gmail fucking exists. In an era where attaching your work or school to any online activity runs the risk of severe consequences, why do people keep doing it? Idiocy in action.
Stuart360
Member
spandexmonkey
Banned
It's always been a bad thing. Even journalists like the one you're defending with such zeal write endless articles criticizing fans for trying to influence games/entertainment. Us low born scum unfortunately do not get direct access to speak our mind.
Are you new to this? Politics, corporations, any organization really, it's always viewed as a negative if you get around the normal channels and abuse your position to influence leadership. It's strategic and effective, obviously, but don't think for a second the commoners approve.
Nymphae
Banned
No one felt the need to pile on him when he made the comments and reported on it initially. It's his follow up to those observations and comments, him attempting to rub the developers nose in it for not taking the more woke path that people are responding to. He comes across like an oversensitive child who is mad that he didn't get his way when he initially felt he was going to get it.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I thought about that myself after I wrote that, it actually wouldn't be a bad game mechanic. I could work a lot like how the Milaria did in Far Cry 2, except every time you physically exert yourself. Maybe for zombie infested, post-apocalypse, or oppressed styled worlds. Trying to find inhalers could be rather difficult in those scenarios and some are better than others. Depending on how many puffs you have or how long the puffs could last, it would determine how you will handle your next engagement.
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DoctorEkkoUK
Member
Don't get me started on Pacman making light of people with a pill dependency
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Preach it!
But in all honesty I don't mind someone interviewing someone and expressing their opinion but Chris Plantt approached it at a way that he wanted him to chnage it and that he should no matter what the answer was.
He's also a terrible journalist. He's constantly wrong about details on games when he's on podcats and such and clearly is only in the business of Kotaku style writing in finding things to bitch about instead of actually being a fan of games.
WhiskeyDiver
Member
He needs to get over it and put his best cleft forward.
In the army, isn't there a marching rhythm that goes cleft, cleft, cleft right cleft?
In the army, isn't there a marching rhythm that goes cleft, cleft, cleft right cleft?
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mcz117chief
Member
I am just talking about this article in particular, I don't know this person except for the two articles he wrote on this topic.
JimmyJones
Banned
Rage 2 looks pretty good honestly. I'd buy it if I wasn't poor right now.
Why’s everyone so worked up about him raising this? I thought it was an interesting point that I haven’t seen before. There are a lot of unconscious biases in design—think orcs and goblins all being swarthy people in Tolkien’s legendarium. I don’t know that cleft palates should be off limits or that Rage 2 should have been changed but I think it’s perfectly fine to write an op ed exploring whether cleft palates as a shorthand for “freaks” is lazy design.
Personally, I think you’re never going to get rid of deformity as a proxy for monstrosity in creature design. We’re scared of things that are warped or different. Unfortunately people with visible deformities also elicit the same reaction. But I still think it’s a good thing that disability activists raise these issues and challenge artists to come up with interest designs that do their best to avoid stereotypes.
Personally, I think you’re never going to get rid of deformity as a proxy for monstrosity in creature design. We’re scared of things that are warped or different. Unfortunately people with visible deformities also elicit the same reaction. But I still think it’s a good thing that disability activists raise these issues and challenge artists to come up with interest designs that do their best to avoid stereotypes.
BusierDonkey
Member
My IQ is well below 80 and I still don't understand.
cormack12
Gold Member
It's fair to assume that the offspring of these mutants or surgical experiments on humans would make a common birth defect more prominent I assume. If anything it's part of a consistent world the writers have created. I think the main issue here is that a cleft palate when severe is an awful condition for people to deal with. I knew a kid who went to school with us who had surgery multiple times and it still wasn't great to look at. The author has at best a very, very mild condition - certainly at first glance it's unnoticeable from the picture. I think people are taking umbrage here because it appears the author is exaggerating his own condition to have something to write about. Something that can actually be explained in the lore of the game. Impotent and infertile men/women could complain about Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale.
Ultimately, you're right though - there could be a wider discussion around this. Arguably the greatest 'monster' in recent times is someone like 'David' from The Last of Us. Games don't really have that depth though. Which is why you get a generic enemy like mutants, horde zombies, the locusts/flood, the Helghast or typical army guys. You just need to quickly identify which are enemies by their 'look'. Another common trope is elephantiasis of certain parts of the anatomy, common and uncommon skin conditions like psoriasis or leprosy - these are meant to come from unhygienic practices, infections and mutations/defects. But they also need to be able to survive, however deficient the gene pool as that's how life works.
Halo is Back
Member
Randomn person: “I’m offended by this thing”
Everyone else: “Who fucking cares grow up”
Everyone else: “Who fucking cares grow up”
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
"As a journalist, you don't want to make yourself part of the story, But"
But - since you're not a journalist - here comes the part where you make it all about you.
But - since you're not a journalist - here comes the part where you make it all about you.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Dash into them.
The Bloody-Nine
Member
I have a peg leg and I'm not sure what that asshole Robert Louis Stevenson was thinking when he wrote Treasure Island. Fuckin' bigot.
Thabass
Member
So Steve Spohn is the chief operating officer of able gamers. f you wanted a microcosm of the entire issue complete with attitude and blatant disregard for interacting with polite disagreement over the last couple of years - h couldn't have nutshelled it more.
Funnily enough, the entire exchange stemmed from linking and plugging the original Polygon article......
This is a shame. I've met Steven many times and he has done a lot to overcome his disablilties and a lot of times, he's a very sensible dude. Not sure what cause him to block the person in the images, but it's very disheartening.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I can understand him having a reaction to seeing the mutants, but parts of the article come off as having a complex about making a topic about themselves.
First off. They are mutants. The overall look of these game enemies is based on an artistic expression of a mutated human being, which yes might include cleft lips. Can monsters in a game not have one eye much bigger than the other because a small amount of people might have a similar appearance? Should there be complaints that the War Boys from Mad Max:Fury Road had tumors on them?
Second, the author making this article about himself seems a bit disingenuous. He's acting like has a PTSD and stigmatized experience from something he probably doesn't even remember. Cleft lips in 1st world countries are almost always fixed 10 weeks to 3 months after birth. They heal up pretty well and most people aren't even that preoccupied with looking for or identifying a post surgery scar. You'd think the author was walking stigmatized with an open lip for most of his life.
Here's an example of someone being born with cleft lip, receiving treatment that is fairly simple (cleft palates are a bit more indepth), and the resultant years after treatment.
The biggest issue is usually in 3rd world countries that don't have the resources or knowledge on how to fix this condition. That's why there are charities ran to get these treatments in 3rd world countries so that these children don't grow up being stigmatized in their community for all their life.
There's a reason why people react the way they do when they see a cleft lip, it's a biological response built in from thousands of years of evolution. It's not a social learned behavior. Humanity is built to identify and be wary of differences between human bodies that are outside the norm.
First off. They are mutants. The overall look of these game enemies is based on an artistic expression of a mutated human being, which yes might include cleft lips. Can monsters in a game not have one eye much bigger than the other because a small amount of people might have a similar appearance? Should there be complaints that the War Boys from Mad Max:Fury Road had tumors on them?
Second, the author making this article about himself seems a bit disingenuous. He's acting like has a PTSD and stigmatized experience from something he probably doesn't even remember. Cleft lips in 1st world countries are almost always fixed 10 weeks to 3 months after birth. They heal up pretty well and most people aren't even that preoccupied with looking for or identifying a post surgery scar. You'd think the author was walking stigmatized with an open lip for most of his life.
Here's an example of someone being born with cleft lip, receiving treatment that is fairly simple (cleft palates are a bit more indepth), and the resultant years after treatment.
The biggest issue is usually in 3rd world countries that don't have the resources or knowledge on how to fix this condition. That's why there are charities ran to get these treatments in 3rd world countries so that these children don't grow up being stigmatized in their community for all their life.
There's a reason why people react the way they do when they see a cleft lip, it's a biological response built in from thousands of years of evolution. It's not a social learned behavior. Humanity is built to identify and be wary of differences between human bodies that are outside the norm.
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Dr. Claus
Banned
flashfire926
Member
Polygon gonna Polygon.