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[sankt-Antonio]

My god, it's a game you can very easily complete without ever needing to shoot a single gun.

They should have just made it PC exclusive and called it a day. Clearly so many of you did not deserve a game like this.

What are you on about? Just because its not Doom 2016 its still a fps.

Wikipedia:

Gameplay​

Prey is a first-person shooter with role-playing and stealth elements set in an open world environment. The player takes the role of Morgan Yu, a human aboard a space station with numerous species of hostile aliens known collectively as the Typhon.

 

[Kacho]

Five years from now, will we see the same kind of news about Naughty Dog and its multiplayer project?

Doubt it. They put their GAAS on hold after the feedback they received from Bungie. Sounds like they plan to focus on what they’re good at which is single player games.

 

[R6Rider]

The fact MS chose this pile as the first game to charge $70 for will never not be hilarious to me.

They saw that 70% of the staff had left and correlated that to the price.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Five years from now, will we see the same kind of news about Naughty Dog and its multiplayer project?

five years? they already happened. the difference is, Sony is on top....at least trying to figure out this shit.

 

[kaizenkko]

Doubt it. They put their GAAS on hold after the feedback they received from Bungie. Sounds like they plan to focus on what they’re good at which is single player games.

The problem is the evil Ryan trying to force everyone to do those stupid gaas.

 

[GHG]

What are you on about? Just because its not Doom 2016 its still a fps.

Wikipedia:

Gameplay​

Prey is a first-person shooter with role-playing and stealth elements set in an open world environment. The player takes the role of Morgan Yu, a human aboard a space station with numerous species of hostile aliens known collectively as the Typhon.

You're now quoting wikipedia... I give up.

How about listen to the directors of the game themselves.



The game gives you all the tools in the world and you chose a gun? Again, you deciding to play it like some braindead shooter is your fault.

 

[MALpractice311]

Honestly I'm not surprised, Arkane has made one good game in their existence and that's it. Their games would have sold more if their art style didn't look like dog shit.

Technically their games look good but artistically their games look fucking ugly, especially the characters. Prey is overrated too, like who wants to spends 8 hours hitting black goo with a wrench? Based on its sales not many.

Bolded is exactly why I can never rank Prey better than a C. As neat as the world design is, the enemy design is so fucking lazy.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

You're now quoting wikipedia... I give up.

How about listen to the directors of the game themselves.



The game gives you all the tools in the world and you chose a gun? Again, you deciding to play it like some braindead shooter is your fault.

You're now posting 15min youtube videos. I give up. Its a shooter, the first person kind. And not every fps needs to be a brain dead shooter.

 

[GHG]

You're now posting 15min youtube videos. I give up. Its a shooter, the first person kind. And not every fps needs to be a brain dead shooter.

If you can't be bothered to watch a 15 minute video where the developers clearly explain what type of game this is then it pretty much sums this situation up and explains why you decided to play it how you did.

Your problem, not mine.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

If you can't be bothered to watch a 15 minute video where the developers clearly explain what type of game this is then it pretty much sums this situation up and explains why you decided to play it how you did.

Your problem, not mine.

I played the god damn game. lol

 

[Kacho]

The problem is the evil Ryan trying to force everyone to do those stupid gaas.

Yeah it’s definitely a primary focus for Sony right now. But we’ll have to see how it plays out.

 

[Mossybrew]

As neat as the world design is, the enemy design is so fucking lazy.

Agreed. I enjoyed the game but the enemies were pretty lame overall. Different forms of black goo, such a boring idea.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

*fake surprise*

 

[Salty Popsicle]

It seems Microsoft's/Xbox's issue this past decade is that they give their first party developers complete control over their destiny, allowing them to succeed or fail on their own merits while only giving advice and nudges from afar. Phil Spencer should have seen that RedFall was not a good game concept soon after making the Bethesda acquisition and transitioned the entire Arkane Austin team towards a new IP.

There would have undoubtedly been thread after thread here and on other forums about how Microsoft killed another game, but it would have been the right move. Phil Spencer and his team should begin to impose their will a little more often and not be afraid to cancel games early-on in development when it becomes clear the team is not enthusiastic about making it.

 

[Paasei]

Very sad if true. One of the few studio's that made immersive sims, my favorite genre by far. All for the sake of developing same-old-same-old games instead of allowing them to continue creating unique games.

 

[rofif]

From the same article:

Fucking yikes Microsoft with your hands-off approach! Phil, you better fire that incompetent zenimax leadership right about now!

Gaas ruining the Industry

 

[Melon Husk]

All they had to do was Prey 2 that ran well on consoles. Prey sold well on PC. It wasn't a huge commercial success because it didn't sell well on consoles. It would have taken very little additional polish to fix the console experience.

Its a fps with added stuff. I know, I played it. The worst controlling fps on a game pad. I wanted to love it, but its so shit on consoles - unplayable imo.

edit: Incompetent leadership...

Developers under Smith and Bare said the two leads were outwardly excited but as the project progressed failed to provide clear direction. Staff members said that, over time, they grew frustrated with management’s frequently shifting references to other games, such as Far Cry and Borderlands, that left each department with varying ideas of what exactly they were making. Throughout the development, the fundamental tension between single-player and multiplayer design remained unresolved.

edit2: I hope that the people who have left (excluding management) found better jobs.

 

[Shut0wen]

no they dont.

They literally do, were getting a control multiplayer game as well as control 2, hellblade 2 and arkane lyon is making a triple A game as well, shadow warrior got 3 games from being budget titles, rocket league made a shit ton as well as outlast, theres 100s of budget games that are making way more money then triple A games at the moment

 

[onnextflix5]

Ms need to balance between giving the devs creative freedom and good management, this is why Sony has been so successful, also drop pc day one for devs that are struggling to make great games.just let them focus on one platform until they become more experienced.

 

[StereoVsn]

So mismanaged by the studio heads, mismanagement by Zenimax and MS not having any oversight over the whole thing.

What a CF. And I am sure MS problems will be magically solved by buying Activision...

Also, it's fucking sad, I loved Dishonored, Prey and even back to old school games from Arkane.

 

[Alebrije]

Obsidian : we expected a new New Vegas....but got Outher W... A game that lacks of the deep of New Vegas and basically is lost in oblivion.

Arkane : we expected Prey but got Redfall..

Something happens inside Microsoft about how they approve games to the market.

 

[Interfectum]

So mismanaged by the studio heads, mismanagement by Zenimax and MS not having any oversight over the whole thing.

What a CF. And I am sure MS problems will be magically solved by buying Activision...

Also, it's fucking sad, I loved Dishonored, Prey and even back to old school games from Arkane.

Indeed, it seems like a clear solution that Microsoft could have implemented immediately upon acquisition. Can you picture original games in the same vein as Prey and Dishonored on Game Pass? Why didn't executives like Phil or Matt review everything these teams were developing and begin making strategic decisions? This 'hands-off' approach appears more like a cover-up for subpar or lackadaisical management.

 

[Roni]

"Prey was a flop" is all one needs to hear to know the tidal wave of "state of the industry" threads has a point.

Pearls before swine...

 

[Fake]

Looks like Skill Up payed for let people read the article for free.

Development of Redfall began in 2018. At the time, ZeniMax — the large, privately held owner of Bethesda Softworks — was looking to sell itself. Behind the scenes, the company was encouraging its studios to develop games that could generate revenue beyond the initial sales, a popular trend dubbed “games as a service,” which was taking off in the late 2010s thanks to lucrative hits like Overwatch and Fortnite.

According to people familiar with the process, ZeniMax was strongly urging developers at its subsidiaries to implement microtransactions — that is, recurring opportunities within games for players to spend real money, say, outfitting their characters. Although this wasn’t an absolute mandate, several ZeniMax franchises such as Fallout, Doom and Wolfenstein would soon release new versions incorporating online multiplayer and monetization options.

 

[hemo memo]

Calling an investigative piece is an insult to real investigative journalism work. This is a gossip piece.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Prey is one of the top 20 games in the decade. It’s sucks that the studios leadership couldn’t fend off bad zenimax decisions.

Hopefully a new immersive sim project can bring the studio back to a good place.

Microsoft needs to be hands on with its struggling studios.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Indeed, it seems like a clear solution that Microsoft could have implemented immediately upon acquisition. Can you picture original games in the same vein as Prey and Dishonored on Game Pass? Why didn't executives like Phil or Matt review everything these teams were developing and begin making strategic decisions? This 'hands-off' approach appears more like a cover-up for subpar or lackadaisical management.

Maybe because canceling projects would delay releases on gamepass. I know that Microsofts feels the need to keep the service constantly fed.

 

[Bernkastel]

Arkane Studios | LinkedIn

Arkane Studios | 146,172 followers on LinkedIn. Arkane is seeking talented individuals to join our teams in Lyon (FR), currently working on Marvel's Blade. | Founded in 1999, Arkane® Studios has grown to become one of the most renowned and critically acclaimed development teams in the video...

www.linkedin.com

Currently 281 employees divided among Austin and Lyon.

Last I checked
In 2021

150 people in Arkane are divided among Lyon studio(Dishonored, Deathloop) and Austin Studio(Prey, new upcoming fantasy project).

In 2022

Arkane - ~200

Where are they getting the "70%"?

 

[Interfectum]

Maybe because canceling projects would delay releases on gamepass. I know that Microsofts feels the need to keep the service constantly fed.

Ideally, they've now realized that launching mediocre games on Game Pass, particularly those from first-party developers, in an attempt to maintain a steady stream of new titles, will ultimately be more detrimental than beneficial for their long-term strategy.

 

[MALpractice311]

Maybe because canceling projects would delay releases on gamepass. I know that Microsofts feels the need to keep the service constantly fed.

Which is exactly what's happening with Netflix and other streaming services. They're starved for original, exclusive content to justify their existences and thus they shit out whatever they can as quickly and as a cheaply as possible without regard to quality. So when people say "Gamepass is the Netflix of gaming", I agree, but not for the right reasons.

 

[Ozriel]

So mismanaged by the studio heads, mismanagement by Zenimax and MS not having any oversight over the whole thing.

What a CF. And I am sure MS problems will be magically solved by buying Activision...

What’s the correlation between Zenimax/Arkane and Activision?

Activision’s current leadership puts out games every year that Sony claims are essential input to gaming. Their latest Diablo game is releasing to rave reviews.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ideally, they've now realized that launching mediocre games on Game Pass, particularly those from first-party developers, in an attempt to maintain a steady stream of new titles, will ultimately be more detrimental than beneficial for their long-term strategy.

Well yes that would be pretty great if they do that. There's other ways to keep gamepass fueled besides 1st party releases. They just need to obtain content to fill in the gaps while their 1st parties are given the time they need to produce quality titles. This would be the best outcome for the consumer.

Which is exactly what's happening with Netflix and other streaming services. They're starved for original, exclusive content to justify their existences and this they shit out whatever they can as quickly and as a cheaply as possible without regard to quality. So when people say "Gamepass as the Netflix of gaming", I agree, but not for the right reasons.

Well as I stated in another reply I hope that's not the case. But I can see how it can be a difficult task though.

 

[Neo_game]

This is a great example there is no use of buying bigger studious if the main talents have left or is leaving due to management issues. This is also the reason that those studio who use to make great games are now making medicore ones. Unless they have found good replacement the quality is going to take a hit.

 

[6502]

Maybe because canceling projects would delay releases on gamepass. I know that Microsofts feels the need to keep the service constantly fed.

Why not release it as gamepass exclusive? The revenue from disk sales was surely less than the damage to their brand. A "free" game would not have had such a backlash.

 

[LordBlodgett]

That would explain why it sucks so badly compared to Prey. That is super frustrating. Microsoft gets praise for being hands off when they buy studios, but it really seems like they need to change those rules and be a lot more hands on. Leadership needs to be honest with what they have and if it doesn't work they need to decide if it can be salvaged or whether it should be scrapped. The earlier you can decide this the better off you will be. I really do hope Microsoft wakes the fuck up and starts evaluating this shit WAAAAAY before release. Unfortunately they have a history of this, even when it sometimes works out OK in the long run. From Crackdown (which probably should have been scrapped early), to MCC (which may be the best game collection ever put together now, but was plain broken at release and for many months afterwards), to Sea of Thieves (which is an excellent game today, but wasn't at release), to Halo Infinite (which is actually a sweet game that is extremely well done, but just launched with no maps and a horrible timeline for more content), and finally to RedFall which just seems to be a terrible game that couldn't figure out what the hell it was supposed to be.

As someone who owns 1000+ games on the Xbox and has made it my main platform I hate seeing them make the same mistakes over and over. With Sony and Nintendo, at least with their single player games, I know that the games are going to be good to great almost every time.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Why not release it as gamepass exclusive? The revenue from disk sales was surely less than the damage to their brand. A "free" game would not have had such a backlash.

I think there would be issues with that from a PR perspective. Don't think it would have gotten such a huge backlash if it wasn't full price. That's just my opinion though.

 

[LordBlodgett]

You know what I find interesting about this is that if a game like Prey had launched on Gamepass on day 1 then I think it would have done way better. I've never met anyone who played Prey for at least a couple of hours who hated it, its almost universal love. It was a total failure at launch, but now is considered one of the best in it's class. If there is anyone left at Arkane who is capable of making a game like Prey or Dishonored I really hope they get a chance to make something similar with their next game.

 

[Iced Arcade]

That $7.5 billion acquisition ain't lookin so hot.

Except those 70% left long before Microsoft acquired them. And purchase most definitely wasn't for Austin.

 

[Melon Husk]

You know what I find interesting about this is that if a game like Prey had launched on Gamepass on day 1 then I think it would have done way better. I've never met anyone who played Prey for at least a couple of hours who hated it, its almost universal love. It was a total failure at launch, but now is considered one of the best in it's class. If there is anyone left at Arkane who is capable of making a game like Prey or Dishonored I really hope they get a chance to make something similar with their next game.

It controls really bad on thumbsticks, the first early game headcrab style enemies move fast and are hard to track. Autoaim was lacklustre, and paired with 30FPS it made combat a frustrating experience from the get go. On consoles, Prey needed better autoaim. 60FPS wasn't possible on PS4 -DLSS and FSR may have made 60FPS possible, but they weren't commonplace yet in 2017.

 

[Rush2112]

Meanwhile, Bethesda didn't notice because they were still counting microsoft's money.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They literally do, were getting a control multiplayer game as well as control 2, hellblade 2 and arkane lyon is making a triple A game as well, shadow warrior got 3 games from being budget titles, rocket league made a shit ton as well as outlast, theres 100s of budget games that are making way more money then triple A games at the moment

I don't think you are aware of the context in which we are talkig about.

 

[Riky]

You can tell by playing the game that it used to be a GASS and that was scrapped part way through. I still think the game can be salvaged, it should have been delayed at least until October all the Halloween stuff dotted about the map at least then would have been fitting.
Good news is that what ever they make next should not have the pressure to be a GAAS and so can actually make the game they want, as long as Microsoft keep their arms length approach.
1 thing that is disappointing, is the fact that Microsoft didn't at least make sure the game was taking advantage of all the Series console hardware features to make it look the best it can be, there should be a team of technical experts Microsoft send to all their studios making sure the games at least look the best they can be.

They do, but Redfall was too far along. They said they got involved with Starfield earlier thankfully.
Maybe they should have moved the project to UE5 and delayed it, or made it as a Live Service game and made it free to play.
The problem mainly is that it wasn't originally designed as a single player story game but the live service stuff has been stripped out so that's what we're left with.

 

[Fuz]

ZeniMax demanded microtransactions

Fuck all those stupid suits.

 

[Cashon]

I played the god damn game. lol

Sounds like you would be able to replay the game and basically experience it completely differently. Give it a shot.

 

[Ozriel]

Imagine being the one who made that call to buy them. Gun in mouth.

Because Redfall flopped?

Arkane Austin and Redfall probably make up $100m of that valuation.

You people are strange. Come back with this take if Starfield craters.

 

[Pidull]

I just replayed Prey, which was my favorite game of 2017, and this news is tough to hear. Bethesda became my favorite publisher in 2017-2018, and in just a few short years that's all faded away quickly.

 

[SaintALia]

I take Schrierer's "investigations" with a truckload of salt personally.

I gotta ask, why?

Is there a record of past fumbles regarding his investigations. I thought it was generally agreed upon that his investigations were on point, unless I missed something?
It at least should beat regular games journalist or Youtubers which are mostly opinion based.

Is something in this article itself that sets off red flags?

 

[Shh]

I take Schrierer's "investigations" with a truckload of salt personally.

So you take them extremely seriously?

 

[Topher]

I gotta ask, why?

Is there a record of past fumbles regarding his investigations. I thought it was generally agreed upon that his investigations were on point, unless I missed something?
It at least should beat regular games journalist or Youtubers which are mostly opinion based.

Is something in this article itself that sets off red flags?

Because of the way he frames his story. For example, saying 70% of the staff that worked on Prey have left has a hell of a lot more impact than saying 70% of the devs have been replaced over the past six years. That's really not a big deal at all considering the amount of turnover in the industry. But he way of telling gets attention and folks will repeat it as truth. I don't trust journalists like this.

So you take them extremely seriously?

lol.....is that what I said really means? That's pretty funny.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

They have been Dishonored.