Redskin used to be a racist term but how much it is now is debatable. Go onto twitter and see how many times redskin gets used as a racist term. Honestly I searched for a bit but couldn't easily find one. Difficult to see it as a problem when over 99.9% of people use it to refer to a team and not as a racist term. Then you have polls that suggest over 70-90% of Native Americans don't have an issue with the name. It is difficult to gauge and much more complicated than lol PC police or redskin=nigger/wetback/chink etc. argument.
Redskins owner says they'll "Never change the name"
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Well when you've been systematically oppressed for hundreds of years, I would think that something like Stockholm Syndrome could take hold.
The name is terrible. The team in the nation's capital who plays the most popular sport in the country has a racial epithet for their team name. Pretty fucking gross.
I don't think it's very complicated. It's racist. Just because it's a less-used racial epithet doesn't make it any better.
Devolution
Member
Shhh.
Elwood Blues
Member
This is coming from the same guy who threw a hundred mil at Albert Haynesworth. Clearly he posses great wisdom that must be heeded.
Professor Beef
Banned
TheClimaxan
Member
Move them to LA. Change the name.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I have to wonder if the Redskins would get more scrutiny for their racist name if they were a perennially good franchise instead of wallowing around .500 and below year in and year out. Fun fact, that 2002 poll came when they were a 7-9 team and they were shit in the intervening years until they drafted RG3. Guess what, now a national hero is wearing the stripes, enjoy the added scrutiny, oh bold defenders of 'tradition.'
CrushDance
Banned
Does anyone know if the native peoples of America were ever referred to as redskins? Or red peoples? I find it hard to believe that they'd be called red people and that the terminology is never learned about. How else could nobody know about it being racist? Seems to me that people are just making things up now to get PC about. It's a tribute to native peoples. For their savagery and fierceness in combat. Just applied to sports. Like how the Vikings show a Caucasian man that's been idolized and glamorized in media forever as mighty and noble. Just like how native Americans have been glamorized and idolized in media as being noble and just as awesome. There's no difference in portrayal of the two! They're hero's! I think people are just looking for something to complain about. What's wrong with using a term and avatar that says native Americans were all hardcore killing machines?
This is kind of dumb logic. How often do you or others come into contact with full blooded native americans?
Their practically out of conscious mind for most everyone.
My mom has been a teacher at the reservation's only school for over 20 years. James Billie is a kook and the Seminole Tribe of Florida is immeasurably corrupt. It's actually really tragic, they have so much money and have no clue how to spend it. The kids don't commit to their education and a disproportionate number of households are ruined by drugs, alcohol, domestic violence, and general irresponsibility.
The US is to blame for their current state. Thankfully the use of their traditional image for a sports team isn't demeaning for the most part.
Supermanisdead
Member
"savagery and fierceness" lol
CrushDance
Banned
It's true! Didn't you know that? That's why the mascot and term is used. To show and remind people how amazing they were and how much the settlers looked on them in awe! There's no way that people would forget about something like "red people" or redskins that quick if it was ever real. I just don't believe it. We don't refer to people as colours that they're not anymore. It's the future man.
I live by a few Indian reservations, met plenty of them, some friends, my GF is part Indian. While it is anecdotal evidence non of them have had an issue with the name. Obviously I am biased since this is the team I have loved and cheered for over 20 years of my life but it is difficult to see evidence that demonstrates how big of an issue it really is.
The poll is likely accurate, more or less I would imagine. That still does not mean the term is not racist - even if 0% found the word offensive.
There is simply not enough pressure (even from American Indians) to get rid of the name. So, until they (the team) feel the social pressure to change it, it's on the team's management as time goes on to decide whether or not the name is appropriate; which basically means it's not going to change.
The name kind of bothers me, but then again I'm white, so I shouldn't be talking. And I suppose if a harmless word like "gay" can over time evolve its meaning into a offensive word, then the reverse can happen as well..though in this case, the word, *red* *skin* will always conjure up an image of a stereotype in my mind...
There is simply not enough pressure (even from American Indians) to get rid of the name. So, until they (the team) feel the social pressure to change it, it's on the team's management as time goes on to decide whether or not the name is appropriate; which basically means it's not going to change.
The name kind of bothers me, but then again I'm white, so I shouldn't be talking. And I suppose if a harmless word like "gay" can over time evolve its meaning into a offensive word, then the reverse can happen as well..though in this case, the word, *red* *skin* will always conjure up an image of a stereotype in my mind...
Probably because we've shoved Native Americans onto reservations and put the issue out of sight and out of mind. Personally, I've interacted with a total of 3 native americans online EVER across all the forums I've been on for the past 15 years or so, and one of them is a GAF poster (Fiction), and another one was a fellow game developer from Arizona, and the third was an old friend from elementary school. I can't even begin to count the amount of asian, black, hispanic, and eastern Indians I've interacted with offline and online.
People aren't going to use a term much for a group of people they never interact with.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I've tuned out of sports for so long that this thread made me look up the Cleveland Indians logo. I thought surely they updated it to look cooler, or something more respectful or badass in line with NA imagery........nope, still the same looney tunes horseshit.
Honestly, doesn't bother me. One of the more prominent football schools in the state (Oklahoma) are called the Redskins, and you'll get a hand full of protestors here in there, but most don't care.
Its just my perspective though.
Edit: I do hate caricature logos.
What about the Chicago Blackhawks and their logo? What do you think about it? Personally, I find it to be one of the best and most iconic logos ever used. And I'd hate for it to be dropped, but then again, I'm not Native American and don't know how you'd feel about it.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Newspaper comment sections are scary. Like you said, people are stupid.
I guess I can say the only one that has ever really bothered me is the Cleveland Indians one, and by that, I mean I'd only raise an eyebrow due to a lack of taste. Again, its just my perspective.
Really I don't think it would be easy to find a true consensus among the Native American community since there are so many different circumstances all of us deal with. I mean, you'd have to take into consideration reservations, cultural differences, blood percentages, and other things. It would be an interesting study to read if someone went through with it.
Chuckie
Member
Is it offensive apart from the red skin? Honest question. I think if you'd change the color of the logo it would simply be a cartoon drawing of a Native American. (Mind you I am not American so I could be very wrong)
Also they could change the name from Redskins to a famous tribe that used to live in Washington.
Edit: Appearantly the cartoon is from Cleveland Indians, not the Redskins
Edit 2: Something like this
metalslimer
Member
Honestly the concept of having a race of people as the logo or even name of a team it pretty suspect especially as a caricature. The red skin is insanely offensive, but even without it it would be a caricature of a group of people. Of course I can't speak for Native Americans. I think a more grey area is something like Fighting Irish.
Also it really astounds me that the logo for the indians is still that. It's even more disturbing than Ole Miss's use of the confederate flag for so long.
To all non-Americans responding, a recent poll showed that about 79% of Americans do not have a problem with the name. Only about 9% said it should be changed.
For me its just the caricature part of it. The color of the skin wouldn't make a difference. Even if it were a more acceptable color (which again, varies greatly), it would still be pretty tasteless.
I think it would still bring about issues among tribes. The Seminoles in Florida endorse FSU, but I have heard the Seminoles in Oklahoma don't like it. Though I heavily suspect that might be due to money more than anything else.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Is there a point in which antiquated terms become inoffensive? Although it wasn't always used as a slur Celestial is almost comedic now thanks to Deadwood.
It's exploitative.
BobbyRobby
Member
I'm genuinely curious if Notre Dame or the Celtics ever got any heat for their mascots.
darkazcura
Member
Maybe I am too simple minded, but this kind of argument has NEVER made sense to me. If a term is considered "racist" by the general population, but later it is found out that 0% of the minority group (that the racist term was for) couldn't care less about the term..how is that racist?
On another note, I've never understood how referring to someone as a color is racist in the least bit. I'm brown. I'm Indian (India). Call me brown, call me brownskin, call me chocolate. I don't care. It's a proper description of how I look. It's when you somehow negatively spin it that it becomes racist like saying I look like the color of crap (ugh). A football team being called the Redskins doesn't seem like negative spin to me, but I'd have to know more about the history of the term before I can be fully confident about this. Is it that Native Americans aren't actually "red"? Sorry if anyone is shaking their head at this post, I'm genuinely curious. Terms like wetback, nigger, curry, and the Cleveland Indian logo are clearly racist to me, but I don't see it with redskins.
I read a little bit about the history of redskin to see how it is a slur, and some historians believe the history of the term comes from the skinning of Native Americans for bounties. If that is true, then yes, redskin is a terrible term and the owner of the Redskins should be embarrassed. The thing is, though, I've read a couple conflicting articles about that even being the first use of the word and that redskin has always been a term used. so ::shrugs::, does anyone know the actual history of the term and why it should be deemed a slur?
I'm not really arguing with anyone so please excuse my ignorance. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone..honestly trying to learn about this (if I'm wrong).
Calling a Japanese dude a Jap is potentially offensive to Japanese dudes, dude.
Anyway, it's weird that America has sports teams named after indigenous ethnic groups when you think about it.
MWS Natural
Member
Would love to see a regional breakdown of this poll.
Devolution
Member
Haven't a couple been self-identifying? There's a huge problem with people claiming NA heritage that simply do not have it.
Jap is indeed racist, at least in America.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Negro is not a racial slur. But don't let that get in the way of your point.
Chuckie
Member
Also in Holland actually
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Washington Lobbyists
Lolno.
This thread is the first place where I've ever seen someone else bring up the Browns name in this argument.
I've seen people complain about Redskins too many times to count. Which one is insulting more people again?
Lolno.
This thread is the first place where I've ever seen someone else bring up the Browns name in this argument.
I've seen people complain about Redskins too many times to count. Which one is insulting more people again?
Chuckie
Member
You really need a list made by the government to tell you that 'Jap' is a slur?
I thought that was wellknown.
sure, in the US
hint hint
Here it's short for Japanese. We call ourselves Kiwis, because it's shorter than New Zealanders.
"Clouf-Booter" : An old french man who steals the buttons off of women's clothing and then hides the buttons under his foreskin. After about a week or two of not washing, the buttons will become gooey and encrusted with smegma. After the man has accumulated 100 buttons under his foreskin, he finds an empty baby food jar, peels his foreskin back, and then scraps off all of the buttons into the jar. After collecting several jars, the man then hides around town in bushes and other areas of concealment; and when a lady is about to pass by, he opens a jar and jumps out in the open, throwing a handful of buttons at the woman and yells CLOUF-BOOTEN!
Jap is a bit regional I think. In the US it is a slur (and it should be obvious in America that it is a slur), but in lots of other places it is the same as Brit or Aussie. It doesn't have the same negative historical baggage.
"Sheepie", sure OK...
"Woolie Jumper" hahahahahahahaaha I can't believe i've never heard of this one.
ding ding ding
Therein lies the issue.
I live in Oklahoma, thus lived and schooled with them on a day to day basis from kindergarten to graduation, blow some of my paycheck in their casinos from time to time, and work with a few.
No one I have ever met has ever taken offense to the Redskins being called such. Reactions range from a shrug to "I actually like it". Growing up I never even knew the whole "redskins=racist" thing even existed until I started heavily using the internet in high-school.
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