Redskins owner says they'll "Never change the name"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hmm... Its a little unsettling to see someone was using what I said to prove their point. I don't think my opinion on the subject is any more important than others regardless of background. I just wanted to share what I thought was a bit different perspective.
 
Butane123 said:
Hmm... Its a little unsettling to see someone was using what I said to prove their point. I don't think my opinion on the subject is any more important than others regardless of background. I just wanted to share what I thought was a bit different perspective.
Click to expand...

While I understand how you feel, your opinion in this case does hold a bit more weight.

What I don't understand, is that the article posted by another member is almost completely ignored. People are comparing 'redskin' with terms like 'chink' while according to the article redskin is actually a term used by American Indians to describe themselves.
Is the article bullshit? Or did the term somewhere became racist?

I think the main issue is not the name 'redskins' but the fact a people are, like another member said, exploited, used as a mascot.
 
Seems kinda like he would make more money if he did switch the name, right? All the dumb asses who get mad at the name change ('cause sports tradition is so important pssh) would end up just buying new overpriced jerseys and hats and all that other shit with the new logo and everything on it, right?
 
Tence said:
While I understand how you feel, your opinion in this case does hold a bit more weight.

What I don't understand, is that the article posted by another member is almost completely ignored. People are comparing 'redskin' with terms like 'chink' while according to the article redskin is actually a term used by American Indians to describe themselves.
Is the article bullshit? Or did the term somewhere became racist?

I think the main issue is not the name 'redskins' but the fact a people are like another member said are exploited, used as a mascot.
Click to expand...

I live in Oklahoma, and personally I've never heard the term "Redskins" be used pejoratively. Now I have heard people use it as a descriptor to add sauce to a curse (eg "those redskinned motherfuckers"), but the word itself doesn't seem to hold any negative connotations in my experience.
 
As a devout Redskins fan since the age of five, I find it offensive for people to want to change the name. DC has already had to change one sports team names (Bullets to Wizards) because people were crying. The Redskins were originally from Boston where they specifically changed their name to 'Redskins' to represent a strong and fierce fighting spirit that was then a cliche term for Native American tribes who were known to be tenacious fighters. Overtime, as America has moved further away from our histories earlier conflicts, many people only consider the name to be a derogatory term.

HTTR!!!!!!!!!!!
 
pa22word said:
I live in Oklahoma, and personally I've never heard the term "Redskins" be used pejoratively. Now I have heard people use it as a descriptor to add sauce to a curse (eg "those redskinned motherfuckers"), but the word itself doesn't seem to hold any negative connotations in my experience.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had no idea it was a slur until the media storm.

IMO, just figure out how many people who matter are offended (excluding white people) and put it to a vote. Seems that some people take pride in the name, while others are offended. No easy answer here.

Edit: From Bullets TO Wizards? That seems so much worse, haha. I obviously do not follow sports.
 
MorisUkunRasik said:
What about yellow?

We don't get to choose what words are racist, racist assholes do. See: Jap.
Click to expand...

There's nothing inherently wrong with "yellow". It's not preferred, Asians don't like it, and, I agree, all use of color is inaccurate, but it's not per se racist. Is that song "Jesus loves the little children" racist? It refers to "yellow, red, black and white".... Is it a slur in that context? So I'm willing to say using "red" to describe Native Americans is passee and condescending, but I think it's reasonable to say its not racist in and of itself. I think reasonable people can see "Red Skins" and think its antiquated, but not necessarily a "slur". Maybe in the future, but again we use White and Black without malice so I think "red" can too (and Yellow - side: one problem with Yellow is that Asians do not see themselves that way. If Native Americans were overwhelming against the term I'd feel otherwise).
 
genjiZERO said:
There's nothing inherently wrong with "yellow". It's not preferred, Asians don't like it, and, I agree, all use of color is inaccurate, but it's not per se racist. Is that song "Jesus loves the little children" racist? It refers to "yellow, red, black and white".... Is it a slur in that context? So I'm willing to say using "red" to describe Native Americans is passee and condescending, but I think it's reasonable to say its not racist in and of itself. I think reasonable people can see "Red Skins" and think its antiquated, but not necessarily a "slur". Maybe in the future, but again we use White and Black without malice so I think "red" can too (and Yellow - side: one problem with Yellow is that Asians do not see themselves that way. If Native Americans were overwhelming against the term I'd feel otherwise).
Click to expand...

The song was from a different time. Lots of media has out of date, offensive terminology.

Go to an Asian neighborhood and call everyone yellow, see how long you stay conscious.
 
My parents both went to UND (mom is native to North Dakota, dad is not) and the big stink over the last few years is the university's mascot of "Fighting Sioux". As a white kid who went to tons of hockey games I always thought of that name and logo as a great sign of respect to the people who originally settles this land. To hear a bunch of politicians were going to shut down UNDs sports programs over it was pretty sad.

Is the name Fighting Sioux and this logo offensive, GAF?

fighting%20sioux.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I like tradition. Slavery was a tradition, right? Bring that shit back based on the logic of tradition.

Snyder/Cheney 2016
 
Being a Redskins fan, I'm glad he said this. No shit it's racist and based off of the color of someone's skin... but I have no connotation between the two. At all. Yeah, it's easy for me to say because I have no history behind the "insult" at all...But whenever I hear Redskins, I think of the team. Yes, there's still those unaware to the team and that it is offensive no matter what which is why the team name is in question... but the team has developed such a history behind the term that I believe the original definition has been recreated. And yes, I get it. People will still be mad that it's literally referring to a person's skin color and I'm mad that the team even thought of selecting such a name... but, like I said, the history and presence behind the name has developed an entire new meaning and I take the Redskins name in pride. Sure, some white guy taking pride in a racial slur is a fucking joke but I still take pride in it. I think it's great that a negative term like that could create a positive effect over the years. Just my two cents.

Again, I'd be open to a name change but I'm not really looking for one. It changes the entire emotion of the team. See: Bullets -> Wizards.
 
Allforce said:
My parents both went to UND (mom is native to North Dakota, dad is not) and the big stink over the last few years is the university's mascot of "Fighting Sioux". As a white kid who went to tons of hockey games I always thought of that name and logo as a great sign of respect to the people who originally settles this land. To hear a bunch of politicians were going to shut down UNDs sports programs over it was pretty sad.

Is the name Fighting Sioux and this logo offensive, GAF?
Click to expand...

Do present day Siouxs support it? Something doesn't have to be racist to be offensive and disrespectful.
 
I've been a diehard Redskin fan since I was 5, and I would have no problem with them changing the name. It's clearly old and dated, and is offensive to many. Yes there is tradition, but the tradition with Redskins doesn't come from a name or a mascot, it comes from the history of great players, teams and coaches they have had over the last 80 years. You can still embrace that with a new name. I would only ask that they keep the colors, and maybe change it to something that actually honors native-americans (Warriors, Braves? though I've heard some commotion with the atlanta baseball team, is this mostly because of the mascot and the "chop" thing? or is that name okay?) rather than some shitty new-age type of sports team name like the Thunder or something.
 
Like mentioned before, make em the Red Tails.

Still has a familiar ring to old fans, removes the racist connotations and does it one better by praising the accomplishments of another minority. Plus there'd be a badass logo I'm sure. Feelgood story of the year, where is the downside?
 
lazybones18 said:
Goodell defends the Redskins name

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9375313/roger-goodell-defends-washington-redskins-name
Click to expand...

Roger Goodell said:
"The Washington Redskins name has thus from its origin represented a positive meaning distinct from any disparagement that could be viewed in some other context," Goodell writes in the letter. "For the team's millions of fans and customers, who represent one of America's most ethnically and geographically diverse fan bases, the name is a unifying force that stands for strength, courage, pride and respect."
Click to expand...

What a load of crap.
 
Kano On The Phone said:
I'm not a legal scholar. I believe the league and PA should push on the team until they agree to it.

That said, I wouldn't lose any sleep if a court made them change the name.
Click to expand...

Ok. I'm against folks forcing a private business to change their name. IMO the name of a business isn't actually hurting anybody, unlike say actual business practices that directly affect employees or customers. A name of a business like a remark can't cause harm unless others allow themselves to be offended. If a pro team decided to call themselves the Kikes I simply wouldn't support the team.
 
I was just thinking of the irony of people comparing the n-word with redskins today while actually saying the word redskin, instead of saying 'r-word'. Obviously these Congress-members were way ahead of me.

How could a term that started out as a descriptor of native americans, and that was coined by a native american, and that is now used almost exclusively to refer to a football team, be so obviously derogatory? The word never seems to be used as an insult!
 
rex said:
I was just thinking of the irony of people comparing the n-word with redskins today while actually saying the word redskin, instead of saying 'r-word'. Obviously these Congress-members were way ahead of me.

How could a term that started out as a descriptor of native americans, and that was coined by a native american, and that is now used almost exclusively to refer to a football team, be so obviously derogatory? The word never seems to be used as an insult!
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Are you saying that blacks coined the N-word?
 
rex said:
I was just thinking of the irony of people comparing the n-word with redskins today while actually saying the word redskin, instead of saying 'r-word'. Obviously these Congress-members were way ahead of me.

How could a term that started out as a descriptor of native americans, and that was coined by a native american, and that is now used almost exclusively to refer to a football team, be so obviously derogatory? The word never seems to be used as an insult!
Click to expand...
So it isn't a big deal because it isn't something you hear a lot directed at the hundreds of native Americans you see every day?
 
rex said:
I was just thinking of the irony of people comparing the n-word with redskins today while actually saying the word redskin, instead of saying 'r-word'. Obviously these Congress-members were way ahead of me.

How could a term that started out as a descriptor of native americans, and that was coined by a native american, and that is now used almost exclusively to refer to a football team, be so obviously derogatory? The word never seems to be used as an insult!
Click to expand...

I've never personally met an Native American that hates the name. I've spent a lot of time around on reservations too due to my Aunt's husband.
 
I am Michael Bolton said:
I'm confused. Are you saying that blacks coined the N-word?
Click to expand...

No, but when someone says that redskin is the equivalent of using the n-word, and uses those exact phrases, it seems to show that they are, in fact, not equivalent.

But then I saw the guys who wrote the letter to Goodell actually did use the exact phrase 'r-word', which at least means their consistent, if not a little ridiculous.

Kano On The Phone said:
So it isn't a big deal because it isn't something you hear a lot directed at the hundreds of native Americans you see every day?
Click to expand...

What's the objective basis for declaring redskin an offensive term when most people never use or hear it used in an offensive way?

Obviously, some people may and do find it offensive. But the people who want the name changed make it sound like it's inherently derogatory, which conflicts both with its (apparent) historical origin and common usage.
 
Someone tonight on CBS Sports Radio made a good point about the name "Redskins".

When people hear the n word, nearly 100% of them recognize the negative meaning. When people hear the word "Redskins", they think of the football team in the same way someone would think of the Colts, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, Texans, Packers, Giants, etc. Of course i've got no right to tell those of American Indian descent that they shouldn't feel offended, but to most people the meaning of the word has changed and is no longer a slur.
 
rex said:
No, but when someone says that redskin is the equivalent of using the n-word, and uses those exact phrases, it seems to show that they are, in fact, not equivalent.

But then I saw the guys who wrote the letter to Goodell actually did use the exact phrase 'r-word', which at least means their consistent, if not a little ridiculous.



What's the objective basis for declaring redskin an offensive term when most people never use or hear it used in an offensive way?

Obviously, some people may and do find it offensive. But the people who want the name changed make it sound like it's inherently derogatory, which conflicts both with its (apparent) historical origin and common usage.
Click to expand...

"Yah, some people find it offensive, but why would we change a football team that exists to collectivize a group of people that were very nearly wiped off the planet by the people who came up with the name? I mean, it's no less derogatory than White Skin with a guy drinking a latte as a logo or Brown Skin with a guy in black face as the logo and those would be fine with everyone. Relax, guys."

Enron said:
Someone tonight on CBS Sports Radio made a good point about the name "Redskins".

When people hear the n word, nearly 100% of them recognize the negative meaning. When people hear the word "Redskins", they think of the football team in the same way someone would think of the Colts, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, Texans, Packers, Giants, etc. Of course i've got no right to tell those of American Indian descent that they shouldn't feel offended, but to most people the meaning of the word has changed and is no longer a slur.
Click to expand...

So why not go the rest of the way and pick something that isn't a slur to any people?
 
Enron said:
Someone tonight on CBS Sports Radio made a good point about the name "Redskins".

When people hear the n word, nearly 100% of them recognize the negative meaning. When people hear the word "Redskins", they think of the football team in the same way someone would think of the Colts, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, Texans, Packers, Giants, etc. Of course i've got no right to tell those of American Indian descent that they shouldn't feel offended, but to most people the meaning of the word has changed and is no longer a slur.
Click to expand...

From my understanding it was never meant to be a slur. People equate to "Nigger" or "Spic" but it has more in common with Black-man or White-man. It's only recently that it has been seen as a racist term.
 
I am Michael Bolton said:
Ok. I'm against folks forcing a private business to change their name. IMO the name of a business isn't actually hurting anybody, unlike say actual business practices that directly affect employees or customers. A name of a business like a remark can't cause harm unless others allow themselves to be offended. If a pro team decided to call themselves the Kikes I simply wouldn't support the team.
Click to expand...

The nfl is granted monopoly exemption by the government. They're about as private as an AT&T call.
 
FyreWulff said:
The nfl is granted monopoly exemption by the government. They're about as private as an AT&T call.
Click to expand...

I understand that but at the end of the day my point stands. It's a name. That's it. You either allow the name to offend you or you don't. No actual harm is caused to an individual's person from a word or name of a business unless said person allows it. It's not like a business refusing to serve customers, unsafe business practices, under paying their employees, not giving employees required breaks. This is a name. That is it.
 
Kano On The Phone said:
So why not go the rest of the way and pick something that isn't a slur to any people?
Click to expand...

But there shouldn't be any trouble recognizing a slur when you hear one. Why is there so much confusion with redskin?

I agree it has the appearance of a slur, but I just don't see this long record of it being used abusively. Maybe I'm just not aware of it. But now people use it to talk about a football team.
 
rex said:
But there shouldn't be any trouble recognizing a slur when you hear one. Why is there so much confusion with redskin?

I agree it has the appearance of a slur, but I just don't see this long record of it being used abusively. Maybe I'm just not aware of it. But now people use it to talk about a football team.
Click to expand...
It's a word that's used to categorize a race and the logo is a caricature of said race. Is it such a huge stretch to just say we can use something different without having to convince you personally that its's a slur?
 
Kano On The Phone said:
It's a word that's used to categorize a race and the logo is a caricature of said race. Is it such a huge stretch to just say we can use something different without having to convince you personally that its's a slur?
Click to expand...

The logo has nothing to do with whether the word redskin is a slur or not... So far all you've said to prove it's a slur is it categorizes a race.
 
People can claim it's not a slur all they want, but no one in their right mind, if they were conversing with a Native American, would ever refer to them as "a redskin" at any point during the conversation. But sure I'll buy it if it's on a jersey.
 
My town's high school team had the name Red Skin but had to change it a few years back. I was pissed at the time but got over it. We are now the Red Storm, which is lame, but what can you do, had to keep the same colors!
 
It just seems like such a stupid thing. Why keep a team name that at the very least toes the racist line? Even with how fucked the state of college sports are, almost all schools policed themselves and took care of this stuff a long time ago.

A portion of the fans would be pissed for a couple years if they changed it, and so what? They'd still go to the games. It's a very passionate fanbase and they're obsessed with football. They'd buy all the new merchandise too, eventually.

I could even understand a little better if the Redskins were some kind of great football franchise, but their heyday was like 25 years ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Walmart is not the Proud owner of VIZIO 2.3 Billion
11
1K
Avid Reading Horse replied
Is there a name for the meme of the chorus comments in an exaggerated pic?
7
648
Nickolaidas replied
I never understood why you can't go faster than light - until now
44
2K
ClanOfNone replied
Dragon Ball will continue for decades, says producer
News  2
76
3K
NahaNago replied
Breaking: US Treasury says it was hacked by China
2
75
4K
Lord Panda replied
Top Bottom