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[Speevy]

That'd be a compelling argument *if* the DS didn't have the most primitive and glitchy 3D graphics imaginable. That was easy to overlook back in 1997, when 3D required a powerful PC. In 2004, the DS specs are shameful; if they wanted to keep costs down, they should've stuck to 2D.

I played Ocarina of Time the other day, and the graphics are fine for the type of gaming present on a handheld. The PSP's graphics look great. Your idea that N64 graphics on a handheld make these games unplayable is just wrong.

Texture warping and pixellation should not exist in 2004's 3D, just as sprite flicker and slowdown were unacceptable in 1996's 2D. Even worse, the DS is obviously being poised as a 3D system (embarrassingly enough), and it doesn't even have ONE analog stick.

Sure, you have a point there. N64 games played without a second analog stick. Not even having that should provide quite an inconvenience. So I hope you enjoy Metriod Prime's control scheme in all your PS2-to-PSP games.

And outside of Gran Turismo 4 and select few other ports from the PS2, there's NOTHING stopping PSP developers from making handheld-friendly games similar to those you see on ther GBA SP and DS -- the only difference is, they'll look, sound, and control vastly better.

You're exactly right. Because handheld software frequently lands right on the top of the US NPD charts, PS2-quality games are made with no production costs, and developers suck so much that they'll leave the current console generation consoles alone in 2006 to devote resources to the PSP.

I'll take a vastly improved screen resolution, an optical format, and ridiculously superior feature set over an additional screen and a stylus ANY day. If hardware specifications didn't matter, as our naive little pal Reggie suggests, we'd still be playing the fuckin' Gameboy Color and lovin' it.

If you're a handheld gamer, I'd say you just made an informed decision. Otherwise, you just wasted your money on an overpriced low-resolution PS2. I have no problem with your preference for the PSP because I don't care about either system. I wrote a college report about how the DS should be cancelled, but that's obviously not going to happen. I frankly think the GBA SP will outsell the PSP when it launches. Watch.

 

[Speevy]

If you really don't care about neither portables why are you in this thread?

Because I wish to see Nintendo succeed in all of its endeavors, and some set of circumstances might lead me to having one of these devices in my hand. I'm not a handheld gamer, though.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I'd be happy with N64-graphics -- perspective correction and bilinear filtering can make low-poly models with low-res textures laregly palatable (especially with decent frame rates), and even moreso on the small screen. PSOne-style texture warping, seaming, and pixellation aren't acceptable.

As for the suggestion that most games on the PSP might have Metroid Prime controls: A) it's a handheld, and one hopes that game developers would design their titles with that in mind; B) not every game will be an FPS; and C) not every developer is as clumsy as Retro.

It costs almost as much to make and market a high-budget GBA game as it does to make a PS2 title these days, and by all accounts, the PSP is vastly easier to develop for than the PS2.

 

[Lord Error]

Sure, you have a point there. N64 games played without a second analog stick. Not even having that should provide quite an inconvenience. So I hope you enjoy Metriod Prime's control scheme in all your PS2-to-PSP games.

Hmm, how about Dreamcast's MDK2 control scheme? Pretty much perfectly functional just as the two analog stick system (definitely way more FPShooting friendly compared to MP's control scheme)

 

[MetaKnight]

I wrote a college report about how the DS should be cancelled

Do you still believe that?

 

[Speevy]

Do you still believe that?

From the standpoint of marketing, no. I think the DS will make Nintendo a ton of money this holiday season.

From the standpoint of Nintendo's long-term stake in the handheld business, yes and no. The company should work on a Gameboy that allows you to play Cube games (they're small enough, I know) or something better than the PSP, but with all the backward compatibility.

Overall, I think the DS is something to keep Nintendo as market leader until the next Gameboy comes. But the Gameboy might not have trouble doing that by itself, anyway.

 

[TekunoRobby]

I am honestly NOT pointing this at anyone. This is a general anger vent in regards to all the hopelessly stupid arguing over which handheld is the superior product:

Seriously these trolls are becoming almost unbearable. It's a fucking handheld machine, we'll see how the market reacts and then go from there. Until then shut the fuck up and stop bashing some peice of hardware which hasn't been released let alone the full specifications. No one wants to know why you think the DS stylus and the graphical capabilities are terrible or why you think PSP's price is too high and how long the battery will last. You're a moron that hasn't a clue about marketing, knows even less about the actual hardware and the plans the company has in store for it. Keep your goddamn inane comments to yourself and stop pretending you're an authority on the subject. Be fucking happy that companies are trying to do something new with each one having different spin on what they beleive the market will want. Appreciate these products, both of them deserve praise no matter the preconceived notions you might have.

Oh and I fully expect the "why don't you shut the fuck up" comments. I deserve it, I know. Thank you and carry on.

EDIT: Changed the defending/bashing to just bashing.

 

[Speevy]

I am honestly NOT pointing this at anyone. This is a general anger vent in regards to all the hopelessly stupid arguing over which handheld is the superior product:

Seriously these trolls are becoming almost unbearable. It's a fucking handheld machine, we'll see how the market reacts and then go from there. Until then shut the fuck up and stop defending/bashing some peice of hardware which hasn't been released let alone the full specifications. No one wants to know why you think the DS stylus and the graphical capabilities are terrible or why you think PSP's price is too high and how long the battery will last. You're a moron that hasn't a clue about marketing, knows even less about the actual hardware and the plans the company has in store for it. Keep your goddamn inane comments to yourself and stop pretending you're an authority on the subject. Be fucking happy that companies are trying to do something new with each one having different spin on what they beleive the market will want. Appreciate these products, both of them deserve praise no matter the preconceived notions you might have.

Oh and I fully expect the "why don't you shut the fuck up" comments. I deserve it, I know. Thank you and carry on.

Wow. Anyway, back to what this forum is for...

 

[Greekboy]

Jeez, at least it has a slightly creative name.

Maybe that's part of the problem with Nintendo. Brand reognition. It was there with NES to SNES but that was it. Sony would be dumb to dub the PS3 the Phoenix or Zeus as lame examples.

If it ain't broke..don't fix it.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Wow. Anyway, back to what this forum is for...

Educated conversations?
Hah, I expect too much out of the internet.

These pissing contests sometimes go way out of control (like with the DS/PSP, every thread about them has to have a troll as required by forum law). Expecting to see some genuine interest in a product instead of these childish games of product dismissal was my fault I admit.

I am genuinly very supportive of both products, though I might not show it. Hopefully these people will understand sooner or later, but in the meantime, I get to express my disdain for it.

EDIT: Don't worry I won't ever speak another word of this again, it was one of those rare moments.

 

[GDGF]

I love the fact that Reggie can send the Sony faithful into full damage control mode with a few choice sentences. It's been awhile since Nintendo had someone with that capability.

Reggie is the new Yamauchi

 

[SolidSnakex]

Reggie is the new Yamauchi

Except Yamauchi wasn't all talk.

 

[GDGF]

I'm sure a pimp smack from Reggie would hurt just as well. He's a pretty big guy


(and thanks for illustrating my point to perfection)

 

[Lord Error]

From the standpoint of Nintendo's long-term stake in the handheld business, yes and no. The company should work on a Gameboy that allows you to play Cube games (they're small enough, I know)

Hmm, unless they make that and another gameboy that would be way less powerful and selling at way lower price, I can never see Nintendo doing such thing and completely alienating their lifeblood, that is a young market. Then again, if they make two gameboys, for two different markets, they run into the traps of possible brand dillution.

 

[Speevy]

It's just a thought. I'm not fit to run a company, certainly. It was just a neat idea, IMO, and would give Nintendo some handheld graphics that stood against the PSP. But whatever, just a thought.

 

[SolidSnakex]

(and thanks for illustrating my point to perfection)

I don't see how when Reggies comment is damage control in itself.

 

[Tellaerin]

I frankly think the GBA SP will outsell the PSP when it launches. Watch.

And if it does? Some of you have way too big an emotional investment in whether company X's product outsells company Y's. As long as the PSP sells well enough to justify continued support from developers, ensuring a decent number of games I want to buy come to market, I could give two shits whether the GBA SP 'beats' it in sales.

 

[GDGF]

I don't see how when Reggies comment is damage control in itself.

You're still doing it, Solid. Sony fans are funny when they're up against the wall. You can so tell they're not used to the situation

 

[SolidSnakex]

You're just spinning something that's not there. Sony fans defended this samething back when Nintendo was running around screaming that they're were the only "real" game company because they didn't have DVD playback which didn't belong in a game system because it's evil. That seemed to work out pretty well for Sony didn't it?

 

[GDGF]

The difference is the fact that that was a stupid argument (and even Nintendo fans agreed amongst themselves)

This time we have history backing us up

Now we see Sony's own 'partners' questioning the merits of the PSP, and all we have to do is sit back and smile

 

[Tellaerin]

The difference is the fact that that was a stupid argument (and even Nintendo fans agreed amongst themselves)

This time we have history backing us up

Now we see Sony's own 'partners' questioning the merits of the PSP, and all we have to do is sit back and smile

What you've got are a couple of quotes that you're blowing all out of proportion because you're desperate to find something, anything, that takes the luster off the PSP. And frankly, it's pathetic to watch.

 

[SolidSnakex]

No Nintendo fans didn't agree that it was stupid, they backed Nintendo like they always do. Claiming Nintendo was the only company that really cared about gaming while Sony and MS has no interest in it other than making money.

This is just Nintendo attempt again to reach out and appeal to the hardcores which doesn't work. They'll just see that once again their opinion of the industry doesn't reflect that of the general public. They live in their own little (shrinking) world still.

 

[GDGF]

What you've got are a couple of quotes that you're blowing all out of proportion because you're desperate to find something, anything, that takes the luster off the PSP. And frankly, it's pathetic to watch.

You guys sound rather upset.

That's pathetic to watch


(and by pathetic I mean funny. See above posts)

 

[jarrod]

It costs almost as much to make and market a high-budget GBA game as it does to make a PS2 title these days,

Absolutely wrong. Where did you get this idea?

You're just spinning something that's not there. Sony fans defended this samething back when Nintendo was running around screaming that they're were the only "real" game company because they didn't have DVD playback which didn't belong in a game system because it's evil. That seemed to work out pretty well for Sony didn't it?

Well of course, they had the industry standard DVD movie format behind them... now about UMD...

....though honestly, Reggie's totally annoying. I'd rather see Nintendo take the high road than degenerate into Sega/MS style PR loudmouthing. :/

 

[DSN2K]

this is what worried me, Sony have brought the graphics whores to handheld gaming.....

I cant wait till DS out sells PSP x2 but then both will get owned by the SP anyway so who gives a damn.

 

[SolidSnakex]

....though honestly, Reggie's totally annoying. I'd rather see Nintendo take the high road than degenerate into Sega/MS style PR loudmouthing. :/

I don't even know why he's doing it, usually companies who're behind start doing the attack on other systems, the ones that are leading just sit back and laugh at the people doing it.

"this is what worried me, Sony have brought the graphics whores to handheld gaming....."

Sony's brought a thing called "competition" to the market. There's a difference. Once you bring in competition you bring in several other factors.

 

[Tellaerin]

You guys sound rather upset.

That's pathetic to watch


(and by pathetic I mean funny. See above posts)

If I'm upset (and by upset, I mean irritated as fuck) by anything, it's fanboys that try to turn new system launches into 'wars' and act like they've won some kind of victory if 'their company' manages to sell more of a given product than 'the enemy'. It's particularly irritating when they start distorting facts to support their arguments, conveniently downplaying or even ignoring the quotes that don't suit them, while seizing upon anything that remotely supports their case and blowing it hugely out of proportion. And while I see this irritating lack of perspective in all fanboys, it seems especially pronounced in Nintendo die-hards, for whatever reason.

I'm admittedly more interested in the PSP than I am the DS, simply because the PSP promises more of what I personally consider important in a game system, handheld or otherwise: Graphical and CPU power. While I'm curious about the possibilities the touchscreen and stylus can open up to designers, I'm more excited by the idea of seeing existing genres done justice in portable form.

Unlike many DS supporters, though, being more interested in one piece of hardware doesn't make me want to see 'the competition' crash and burn. Why should I? I 'win' when there's more than one machine out there. More variety in hardware and software means a broader range of experiences for players to choose from. Maybe if some of you would take off your 'unofficial Nintendo employee' badges and start behaving like gamers instead of corporate tools for a change, you'd be able to see that for yourselves.

 

[Chittagong]

I can't imagine Yamauchi starting every his speech with a "Hi, my name is Hiroshi" followed with a crap joke.

 

[GDGF]

...sorry, I was watching Sealab.

Anyway, nice speech, but it was a whole lot of wasted energy, and I'll tell you why. I don't really give a damn about your handheld convictions (no offense, but should I?) My original point was about how I so get a kick out of Reggie's words sending the Sony faithful into full damage control mode. It really is funny. If Reggie's words really get to you, you deserve to be laughed at. If they don't, then should mine? In the end, though, you're going to buy what you're going to buy, and so am I. The difference between us is you're on your side of the PC getting all kinds of pissed, and I'm on mine laughing my ass off. Is that right? Who knows. It sure is funny, though

 

[SolidSnakex]

he difference between us is you're on your side of the PC getting all kinds of pissed, and I'm on mine laughing my ass off. Is that right? Who knows. It sure is funny, though

I'm sure people at Sony are laughing their ass off at Reggies comments too (although probably not because of the reason you think).

 

[AniHawk]

I'm sure people at Sony are laughing their ass off at Reggies comments too (although probably not because of the reason you think).

WOW, GOOD COMEBACK!

 

[GDGF]

I can always count on you to validate my points, SolidSnake, and for that I am ever thankful

 

[Alcibiades]

I'm sure people at Sony are laughing their ass off at Reggies comments too (although probably not because of the reason you think).

nervously laughing at their falling-profits?

 

[SolidSnakex]

nervously laughing at their falling-profits?

No because without even trying they've already got Nintendo worrying in a market that at the moment they dominate. You only start doing childish attacks on a company when you're worried (or working from behind them). That's something that no other company managed to do with Nintendo and the handheld market with the possible exception of Sega with the GG.

 

[Alcibiades]

No because without even trying they've already got Nintendo worrying in a market that at the moment they dominate. You only start doing childish attacks on a company when you're worried (or working from behind them). That's something that no other company managed to do with Nintendo and the handheld market with the possible exception of Sega with the GG.

chasing after 3rd party support + super high-tech gadget with bells and whistles + PS2 graphics-level engine = without even trying?

 

[Tellaerin]

...sorry, I was watching Sealab.

Anyway, nice speech, but it was a whole lot of wasted energy, and I'll tell you why. I don't really give a damn about your handheld convictions (no offense, but should I?)

You should if you're going to go putting words in my mouth, yes. I'm not some Sony fanboy who gets 'upset' whenever someone has anything negative to say about his favorite company. If I was annoyed with anything, it was with your 'oooh, Sony's own adherents in the industry are expressing their lack of faith in the PSP' remark, which is exactly the sort of deliberately overblown distortion that makes me despise fanboys. It wasn't the fact that it was a dig at Sony that irritated me, it was the fact that it's bullshit being passed off as fact. So yes, you obviously needed to be set straight about my so-called 'handheld convictions', particularly the fact that they weren't rooted in some personal obsession with Sony. Just because you sit around waving a little Nintendo pennant and shouting 'go team!' every time Reggie opens his mouth doesn't mean that every gamer is like that about their hobby.

 

[SolidSnakex]

chasing after 3rd party support + super high-tech gadget with bells and whistles + PS2 graphics-level engine = without even trying?

The leader of a system pack usually doesn't care about other systems, atleast not to the point to start doing attacks on them. That's why I said Sony hasn't really even tried meaning they haven't attacked the DS yet and I doubt they will. They did it in the PSone era till they got ahead and haven't really done any of it since. It just seems that Nintendo is alot more worried about the PSP than Sony is of the DS.

 

[nubbe]

What is Sony going to bash with? It’s not like they have a working unit or software to do PR for.
Nintendo on the other hand have shown a working unit with tech demos running on the actual hardware.

 

[T-1000_Model3]

Within the last 6 years or so-competition has never been kind to Nintendo. Remember when the Xbox was nothing more than a system to play Halo on in Christmas 2001? I remember clearly so many spewing garbage that after that holday-Xbox was dead in the water. Fast forward to 2004,where are these two now? About as neck and neck for the battle for a distant but yet somewhat respectable 2nd. The same could very well be said for the newest competitor in the handheld department.

The PSP comes from the backing of an even stronger company here-SONY. The tones sound uninformed. To dismiss Sony as a legit contender is completely foolish. PSX prooved Sony could enter the playing field amongst the veterans and succeed. PS2 only reafirms that Sony know how to compete and stay there. The same could very well be said for Sony's PSP. And this isn't SNK,Sega,Tiger,or Ngage Nintendo's DS is competiting with. The war between these two is going to be allot closer than some of you are thinking. Theres no overnight victory here,I'm thinking its going to be a long battle. And Sony knows how to put up a pretty good fight. I really don't think theyre going to be second fiddle as some of the tones in this thread suggest. They have too much marketing savy and will tie up exclsuives for their handhedl in the long run,as will Nintendo,but again,this fight isn't so one sided as some of you are making it out to be. These machines haven't even launched,noone knows for sure how the markets going to react to either handheld. All you can really go on is each companys strategic marketing skills and pull from 3rd partys.

 

[SolidSnakex]

What is Sony going to bash with? It’s not like they have a working unit or software to do PR for.
Nintendo on the other hand have shown a working unit with tech demos running on the actual hardware.

The easiest thing to bash right now is the DS' graphics quality. They could easily do that if they wanted to.

 

[GDGF]

You should if you're going to go putting words in my mouth, yes. I'm not some Sony fanboy who gets 'upset' whenever someone has anything negative to say about his favorite company. If I was annoyed with anything, it was with your 'oooh, Sony's own adherents in the industry are expressing their lack of faith in the PSP' remark, which is exactly the sort of deliberately overblown distortion that makes me despise fanboys. It wasn't the fact that it was a dig at Sony that irritated me, it was the fact that it's bullshit being passed off as fact. So yes, you obviously needed to be set straight about my so-called 'handheld convictions', particularly the fact that they weren't rooted in some personal obsession with Sony. Just because you sit around waving a little Nintendo pennant and shouting 'go team!' every time Reggie opens his mouth doesn't mean that every gamer is like that about their hobby.

Ya set nothing straight paly boy. If anything you further illustrated my point as well. My original post didn't say 'to Tellaerin', yet you somehow thought it applied to you. That must mean that you thought you fit the description very well, eh? If I irritated you, well, you allowed yourself to be irritated. If you're pissed, you allowed yourself to be pissed. At first I was slightly worried that you misunderstood me, but now I see you understood me quite well, but allowed me to get to you. I feel justified in laughing at you now. I will

 

[GDGF]

The easiest thing to bash right now is the DS' graphics quality. They could easily do that if they wanted to.

That never worked for Sega, and they were a whole hell of alot better at it than Sony ever was. It's not an important factor in the handheld wars I'm afraid

 

[SolidSnakex]

That never worked for Sega, and they were a whole hell of alot better at it than Sony ever was. It's not an important factor in the handheld wars I'm afraid

We'll see about that now. To alot of people games from last generation are hard to play because of how crude the graphics are, the majority of the games shown on the DS so far have that crude graphics look to them.

 

[GDGF]

:lol I can see sony now. 'Dammit, the graphics are bad! Why don't you people care?!? Why don't you freakin' care!?!'


Meanwhile the 10 millionth DS is sold and the PSP hasn't even landed on US shores yet

 

[Tellaerin]

Ya set nothing straight paly boy. If anything you further illustrated my point as well. If I irritated you, well, you allowed yourself to be irritated. If you're pissed, you allowed yourself to be pissed. At first I was slightly worried that you misunderstood me, but now I see you understood me quite well, but allowed me to get to you. I feel justified in laughing at you now. I will

Wow, some random Nintendo fanboy who can't separate fact from self-delusion is laughing at me! Thank you for sharing! XD If I didn't feel justified in looking down on you in contempt before, I certainly do now. In fact, I will.

 

[GDGF]

No problem! Now we can both get a good laugh in!

 

[DCharlie]

I personally feel Sony have avoided attacking the DS because they are going to try and carve out a whole new market.

I still believe the price of the PSP is going to be high enough to exclude most kids, and thus is going to be marketted to an adult gamer market (people who have grown up with games and now have the disposable income to throw at a 300$+ machine).

The DS is still going to be accessible to kids, and whilst Nintendo seem to be getting involved (albeit through veiled references) there doesn't seem to be any need - whilst the gaming community will obviously compare them side by side, i think the market for both units are a world apart.

Sony don't need to getting involved with a pissing war over the DS, because if that niche they are initially targetting does exist , then they have nothing to fear (including, possibly, price).

 

[Takuan]

No shit, how the fuck can people play GBA games

Hey now, GBA has some great titles. I recently discovered the SFA3 port, and it's pretty frickin' spectacular for a handheld. Best handheld fighter conversion ever - so far.

 

[Deg]

I find it really odd that DS can connect to the internet but the hardware dissallows online gaming.

 

[----]

I find it really odd that DS can connect to the internet but the hardware dissallows online gaming.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What was the point of adding 802.11b WiFi if the system isn't capable of playing games online? They added all that technology just so you could use an internet web browser??!? It's insane.

The only thing that had me partially excited about DS was the idea that I would be able to walk around my house playing Mario Kart DS online.