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[Draugoth]

Since other post got deleted for being misleading..

---

Remedy Entertainment once again made talk by revealing that Alan Wake 2 will not have a 60fps mode on the Xbox Series S and recently, In a recent conversation with IGN, Tomas Puha, director of communications at the European studio, was once again asked about his opinion on Microsoft's weakest console. Puha was asked about the 60fps mode on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Alan Wake 2, but he was also asked about the limitations on the Series S that leave it without this mode.

Puha says there are two big challenges when working with the Series S, is the weaker GPU and the memory.

In terms of the Series S, Puha explained that there are two main challenges: the lower GPU and memory compared to the Series X. While the CPU is similar, the GPU and memory limitations pose significant issues for developers. Puha noted that scaling for PC is easier due to the abundance of memory, unlike on consoles.

In the Series S, the CPU is basically the same as in the Series you make PC games, surely you know how to scale games?' Well, memory isn't a problem on the PC, it really isn't.

Obviously, there is a huge difference in power between the Series Consoles in between and believe me, that's a huge challenge, but we've already released several games for PC and we've gotten a little better at that.

We really worked hard to get the Series S running at a solid 30fps with good visual quality, but if you want to see the game at its best on the new generation then it will be on machines with the hardware that allows it.

Script via Eurogamer

 

[SlimySnake]

What's good is that they didnt compromise their vision and delivered a true next gen version on the PS5 and XSX.

That was my fear all along that the series s would hold back the xsx and ps5. That doesnt seem to be happening so far this gen. if they are able to get this running at low settings at 720p on the xss, thats fine. Im sure the PS5 and XSX wont be running at native 4k either.

 

[winjer]

Devs really love the Series S.

 

[MarkMe2525]

That seems like a reasonable, expected take on the subject. I imagine it does take more work to get it looking it's best. Nothing controversial here.

 

[Kacho]

The quote in the OP makes no sense

 

[DenchDeckard]

Love remedy , so as long as they are giving us the best game they can then boom!

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I'm quoting myself from the last thread which was shutdown since I've already done the transcription for that Series S segment they're talking about in the article:

IGN: Is the Xbox Series S a net positive, in the eyes of a top-tier developer like Remedy?

Thomas Puha (Remedy): Choosing my words carefully here - we like Xbox, we like Sony. On Series S, the CPU is pretty much the same as on Series X. There's not a massive difference, but the GPU is an issue, it really is. Then, having less memory is a pretty big problem. We often get comments like, 'Hey, you make PC games, surely you know how to scale.' Well, memory is not a problem on PC. It really isn't, and that's one of the struggles when you talk about resolution and frame-rate.

It's not enough to just drop the resolution heavily (that's what we're doing on the Series S) and really, really working hard to make sure that the visual quality still holds up. It's strange that people can't accept that on a weaker PC, you're just going to have less. The visuals are not going to be as good, and your frame rate is not going to be as high as expected.

There's a massive difference between Series S and Series X GPUs. Sure, people can mention that this game did this so well and all that, but every game is different, and every developer is different. You can't have the best of both worlds, and you have to choose where you're going to focus.

I think the Series S is priced at $250 or whatnot, while the Series X and PS5 are $500. Obviously, there's a massive difference in the power you're getting, right? It's a lot easier to scale on the PC because of memory. It's not like there's one super PC and one weaker PC. There are 300+ PC configurations in between, and trust me, that's a massive struggle. But we've shipped a lot of games on PC, so we're a bit better about that. We really worked hard on getting the Series S to run at a solid 30 FPS and trying to maintain good visual quality. But if you want to see the game (e.g. AW2) at its best, in full next-gen glory, then it's going to be on the machines that have the hardware grunt to enable that.

 

[RoboFu]

Where do they say what's in the title?

 

[Magic Carpet]

I'm going to have to put draugoth on ignore once again.
It really kills Neogaf content. But It might make Negaf a happier place.

 

[Heisenberg007]

What's good is that they didnt compromise their vision and delivered a true next gen version on the PS5 and XSX.

That was my fear all along that the series s would hold back the xsx and ps5. That doesnt seem to be happening so far this gen. if they are able to get this running at low settings at 720p on the xss, thats fine. Im sure the PS5 and XSX wont be running at native 4k either.

The game looks fantastic, but we don't really know that they didn't make compromises.

This is the thing with underpowered "anchor" consoles. We will never know what the vision would have been if their baseline was higher. We'll only get to see the final version and we can make a judgment whether it looks good or not.

But we will never what it could have been, and whether they did or didn't make compromises on their original vision -- which could have been way more ambitious for all we know.

 

[jm89]

 

[fred420170]

I will be playing the true next gen version of the game on PC w/ path tracing and all the other bells a whistles turned on.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Where do they say what's in the title?

Thomas Puha (Remedy): Choosing my words carefully here - we like Xbox, we like Sony. On Series S, the CPU is pretty much the same as on Series X. There's not a massive difference, but the GPU is an issue, it really is. Then, having less memory is a pretty big problem. We often get comments like, 'Hey, you make PC games, surely you know how to scale.' Well, memory is not a problem on PC. It really isn't, and that's one of the struggles when you talk about resolution and frame-rate.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Remedy make great use of the Northlight Engine.

 

[shamoomoo]

Devs really love the Series S.

Is this an AI generated image?

 

[winjer]

Is this an AI generated image?

No.
It's a real dev, with a real stick, about to hit a real Series S, on top of a real table.

 

[Black_Stride]

This thread is also going to get closed.
The mod wont even have to type a new reason for closing, they can just copy paste:
Dial it back on the clickbait titles misrepresenting what the developer has said.

Why cant you guys just quote what he said:
The GPU is an issue, the memory is a big problem


On Topic:
Since the other thread got closed.
Who gives a shit about the Series S except Series S owners?
All i care about is Full RT.......this game is def gonna be another benchmark title like Control.

Everything in this scene is so grounded, it almost looks offline.
I pray I have enough GPU power free to DLAA this game for some clean clean AA with full Raytracing.
I play at 1440p before you ask.

 

[ReBurn]

The quote in the OP makes no sense

It's not about making sense. It's about the friends we make along the way.

 

[Del_X]

Phil Spencer, seething, plans a $999 Xbox Next. When questioned about a lower priced offering he will respond “budget PC.”

 

[Del_X]

That screenshot just tricked me into pre-ordering

 

[Draugoth]

The quote in the OP makes no sense

Where do they say what's in the title?

This thread is also going to get closed.
The mod wont even have to type a new reason for closing, they can just copy paste:
Dial it back on the clickbait titles misrepresenting what the developer has said.

Why cant you guys just quote what he said:
The GPU is an issue, the memory is a big problem


On Topic:
Since the other thread got closed.
Who gives a shit about the Series S except Series S owners?
All i care about is Full RT.......this game is def gonna be another benchmark title like Control.

Everything in this scene is so grounded, it almost looks offline.
I pray I have enough GPU power free to DLAA this game for some clean clean AA with full Raytracing.
I play at 1440p before you ask.

Idk, i just Copy Pasted the Eurogamer Article. I can't watch the video anyways

I'm going to have to put draugoth on ignore once again.
It really kills Neogaf content. But It might make Negaf a happier place.

To be fair, i think im more dumb rather than ignorant.

I'm quoting myself from the last thread which was shutdown since I've already done the transcription for that Series S segment they're talking about in the article:

Basically remedy can get it to run at 60 FPS, but the game would then look like Redfall.

 

[Kaleinc]

This thread is also going to get closed.
The mod wont even have to type a new reason for closing, they can just copy paste:
Dial it back on the clickbait titles misrepresenting what the developer has said.

Why cant you guys just quote what he said:
The GPU is an issue, the memory is a big problem


On Topic:
Since the other thread got closed.
Who gives a shit about the Series S except Series S owners?
All i care about is Full RT.......this game is def gonna be another benchmark title like Control.

Everything in this scene is so grounded, it almost looks offline.
I pray I have enough GPU power free to DLAA this game for some clean clean AA with full Raytracing.
I play at 1440p before you ask.

Nobody's asking

 

[Ozriel]

I don’t see the problem. As the guy said

It's strange that people can't accept that on a weaker PC, you're just going to have less. The visuals are not going to be as good, and your frame rate is not going to be as high as expected.

All these breathless threads when a Series S game is at 30fps meanwhile the people who bought them know it’s a significantly weaker console than the X, but also significantly cheaper.

MS cheaped out on the specs and should really have done better. But devs are managing with the limitations and the world is moving on.

 

[Insane Metal]

But scaling. Same game at 1440p

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Thomas Puha, the Communications Director from Remedy. That dude's been ragging on Xbox ever since Quantum Break launch. I think they are still pissed off about that time period at Remedy. The forced Windows Store Quantum Break port did a lot of damage, and I don't think Remedy ever really forgave Phil for that one. I remember Puha posting about playing Destiny on his PS4 around that time too, haha.

 

[Black_Stride]

But scaling. Same game at 1440p

The game is probably sub-1440p on PS5/XSX as is.

Control Ultimate was 1440p30 on PS5/XSX with just RayTraced reflections.
This looks leagues above Control, so if its running at 1440p30 id be very very impressed, the 60fps mode?

 

[MrA]

Since other post got deleted for being misleading..

---

Remedy Entertainment once again made talk by revealing that Alan Wake 2 will not have a 60fps mode on the Xbox Series S and recently, In a recent conversation with IGN, Tomas Puha, director of communications at the European studio, was once again asked about his opinion on Microsoft's weakest console. Puha was asked about the 60fps mode on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Alan Wake 2, but he was also asked about the limitations on the Series S that leave it without this mode.

Puha says there are two big challenges when working with the Series S, is the weaker GPU and the memory.

In terms of the Series S, Puha explained that there are two main challenges: the lower GPU and memory compared to the Series X. While the CPU is similar, the GPU and memory limitations pose significant issues for developers. Puha noted that scaling for PC is easier due to the abundance of memory, unlike on consoles.



Script via Eurogamer

Memory really should in the title especially since he clearly states memory is the reason it isn't as scalable as pc

 

[sendit]

TLDR;

"Series S is not a current gen machine"

This thread is also going to get closed.
The mod wont even have to type a new reason for closing, they can just copy paste:
Dial it back on the clickbait titles misrepresenting what the developer has said.

Why cant you guys just quote what he said:
The GPU is an issue, the memory is a big problem


On Topic:
Since the other thread got closed.
Who gives a shit about the Series S except Series S owners?
All i care about is Full RT.......this game is def gonna be another benchmark title like Control.

Everything in this scene is so grounded, it almost looks offline.
I pray I have enough GPU power free to DLAA this game for some clean clean AA with full Raytracing.
I play at 1440p before you ask.

Hoping this game has a photo mode.

 

[Kacho]

Idk, i just Copy Pasted the Eurogamer Article. I can't watch the video anyways

To be fair, i think im more dumb rather than ignorant.

Basically remedy can get it to run at 60 FPS, but the game would then look like Redfall.

Stop using Google translate to make threads

 

[ChiefDada]

Sorry but OP does NOT capture the correct tone of the Remedy developer that well. The prior post that was taken down was much more accurate. Oh well...

 

[Bernardougf]

Control sucks.. there I said it...




.. I like Alan Wake though

 

[ElCasual]

Just give me a great history with a good gameplay and I will play even in 25 fps /1080p

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

one of those series is the issue. one of those shouldn't exist.

 

[Knightime_X]

Devs: We hate working with Series S, its soo weak.
Also devs: We got this game to work on nintendo switch, we're soo cool!

 

[ManaByte]

Devs: We hate working with Series S, its soo weak.
Also devs: We got this game to work on nintendo switch, we're soo cool!

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Devs: We hate working with Series S, its soo weak.
Also devs: We got this game to work on nintendo switch, we're soo cool!

Switch is the second best selling console ever, it has an installed base of more than 100 million units.
Xbox Series has what? 40 million? (Edit: LOL its actually half)

Plus, almost anything can be done with enough time and money.

Unfortunately in the real world you have limited time and money. So what plataforms would you focus the game development?

Can you understand why devs take time to launch games on switch and complain about Series S?

Repeat with me:
a weaker console only works when you are the market leader.
a weaker console only works when you are the market leader...

 

[existensmaximum]

Switch is the second best selling console ever, more the 100 million installed base
Xbox Series are 40 million?

Almost anything can be done with enough time and money

Unfortunately in the real world you have limited time and money. So what plataforms would you focus the game development?

Can you understand why devs take time to launch games on switch and complain about Series S?

Again, repeat with me: a weaker console only works when you are the market leader.
a weaker console only works when you are the market leader...

Also the expectations from Xbox owners are probably very different from the expectations of Nintendo owners when it comes to stuff like resolution, graphical fidelity etc.

Specifically, Nintendo owners are just happy to even play the game on Switch while Series S owners probably would expect the game to look and play identical on Series S as in Series X, but at a lower resolution.

 

[SportsFan581]

Seems perfectly reasonable, tbh. If they couldn't get the 60fps mode running in a way that they felt held up to the standards they have visually, don't include it.

@ existensmaximum I doubt most XSS owners have a XSX setup for a side-by-side, this will simply be how the game looks to them. It will be like Starfield, there are differences between the two outside of resolution, but without looking for them specifically the game is going to look the same but at a lower resolution (as do 99% of the games released on there).

 

[existensmaximum]

Seems perfectly reasonable, tbh. If they couldn't get the 60fps mode running in a way that they felt held up to the standards they have visually, don't include it.

@ existensmaximum I doubt most XSS owners have a XSX setup for a side-by-side, this will simply be how the game looks to them. It will be like Starfield, there are differences between the two outside of resolution, but without looking for them specifically the game is going to look the same but at a lower resolution (as do 99% of the games released on there).

Well, they're probably going to expect the 60 fps mode and notice that it's missing. Regardless, I'm just in just pointing out that developers probably need to put in a lot of work to make the XSS versions of the games look as good as possible, not do disappoint the gamers?

And that it's not hard to understand why they would be complaining more about that than getting a game to run on Switch, as was the discussion above.

 

[SHA]

The game won't be shipped as it is across all platforms unless changes been made that affect all of us, that's what concerns me, this makes owning a high end pc pointless and stupid cause you pay for a premium price and you can't deal with this problem personally, owning a high end pc is a personal decision, not a choice for premium experience anymore.

 

[Ozriel]

Well, they're probably going to expect the 60 fps mode and notice that it's missing. Regardless, I'm just in just pointing out that developers probably need to put in a lot of work to make the XSS versions of the games look as good as possible, not do disappoint the gamers?

Series S owners seem perfectly fine with the cutbacks, tbh. Something to be said about expectations already being managed when you pick the console up at $250

Unfortunately in the real world you have limited time and money. So what plataforms would you focus the game development?

Can you understand why devs take time to launch games on switch and complain about Series S?

Repeat with me:
a weaker console only works when you are the market leader.
a weaker console only works when you are the market leader...

It also seems to work when you’re forced to release games on the weaker console if you want to put your game on the more powerful version or for the overall install base.

The XSS situation isn’t ideal, but I don’t think I’ve seen a single third party dev muse about not releasing on Xbox at all as a consequence.

 

[nashman]

Where do they say what's in the title?

OP was being nice

"but the GPU is an issue, it really is."

 

[Crayon]

Imagine if they pushed the fps down to 30 on the big kids consoles and tried "really hard" to get it running smoothly.

For a slower sp game it would be fine for me. I'd like to see a game like that with screaming graphics. They should really allow devs to take some things right out of the s version. BG3 did it but it doesn't always have to be so consequential as cutting a huge feature.

Or just let it run like shit. I don't care.

The S is a spoiler. At least we get more 60fps games this gen. But 30 would be fine sometimes. People seem to overwhelmingly like the matrix demo. Always asking when games will look like that. They did a great job both pushing the normal consoles and the S at 30. But it looks like it is not so easy to do that for everyone. Maybe for anyone. And unfortunately, the vast majority of xbs are the series s. So it's the new normal.

I really hope ms doesn't pull this again next gen. As it is, we are in for another three years of cross gen and those will all still be baselined to this pos. And if they do it again, well... I do like 60fps. But there are going to be would-be showcase games that could have blown us away, but don't get to do that because the developers don't have the resources to go hard on PS5 then drastically de-make the game for series s.

That Xbox dev kit is sitting right next to the PS5 one from the start. They have budgets and deadlines. The harder you go on ps5, the more of a struggle to make it work on the s. Of-fucking-course the series s is going to influence decisions. BG3 is a good example- you can't just turn down the resolution as falsely promised from MS, the broken promise emporium.

I've always said 60fps will be more common on console to the extent that it is marketable. And that's happened now. With so much cross-gen, the resolution, framerate, and load times are what makes the upgrade from a PS4 worth it. So they tried marketing 60fps and it's working. It is a good thing.

Personally, I'm overall satisfied with that. I thought PS4 graphics were really good. Having that running on a PS5 at multiple time the res and fps is great. Thanks, cross gen. And now that cross gen is ending, it's spirit lives on with the series s. There's an upside. Games will be encouraged to perform well by conforming to the low baseline. I'm not super mad.

I hope that if the PS5 pro comes out, sony will have the chance to push the fps down to 30 on the baseline PS5 and we'll see some rel eye candy. Then if I want that at 60fps I can get a pro. Sony is the only major pub who doesn't have to worry about series s at all. Between them and studios who can make all the xboxes sing like matrix (a graphics demo, mind you), we are going to end up with relatively few games that pushed the limits this gen. And it could happen next gen too now that Xbox sales would collapse without this impulse-buy priced ball and chain of a console.

 

[JackMcGunns]

What's good is that they didnt compromise their vision and delivered a true next gen version on the PS5 and XSX.

That was my fear all along that the series s would hold back the xsx and ps5. That doesnt seem to be happening so far this gen. if they are able to get this running at low settings at 720p on the xss, thats fine. Im sure the PS5 and XSX wont be running at native 4k either.

Boom . Exactly the point. Now everyone can back off the Series S, don’t like it, don’t buy it, so long as a unicorn like BG3 doesn’t happen, then everyone is happy.

 

[Black_Stride]

Hoping this game has a photo mode.

Control has a photomode.....no chance they forget to add photomode to this game.
Not that it matters its still NorthLight and we already have NorthLight modding tools so if they forgot it somehow.
There will be a mod for it day one.

 

[BootsLoader]

It's not about making sense. It's about the friends we make along the way.

This is the most Hideo Kojima Death Stranding shit I’ve ever seen.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Thomas Puha, the Communications Director from Remedy. That dude's been ragging on Xbox ever since Quantum Break launch. I think they are still pissed off about that time period at Remedy. The forced Windows Store Quantum Break port did a lot of damage, and I don't think Remedy ever really forgave Phil for that one. I remember Puha posting about playing Destiny on his PS4 around that time too, haha.

We have successfully transitioned from "lazy devs" to "anti-Xbox devs" now

 

[hlm666]

All i care about is Full RT.......this game is def gonna be another benchmark title like Control.

It's cute going with the xss is holding back gaming shtick etc/yada with a game that is going to have full raytraced mode that wont be on any console. Looks like they have pushed every platform, did it take more work to get it how they wanted on xss, probably but the other end of spectrum exists aswell in that they had to put in more work for a fully ray traced mode.

Im sure the PS5 and XSX wont be running at native 4k either.

haha they wont even say what the performance mode on ps5/xsx is nativeley rendering at, screams sub 1080p not wanting people upset before it ships.

 

[Black_Stride]

haha they wont even say what the performance mode on ps5/xsx is nativeley rendering at, screams sub 1080p not wanting people upset before it ships.

If Control was 1440p~60 without RT and 1440p30 with RT reflections only, I expect this to be much lower resolution in its performance mode or the cutbacks are much harsher.

The world looks much much denser.
The New York(?) stage they showed off......I was crying for my GPU, full RT in those stages is gonna be an absolute bloodbath, and people will call the game unoptimized cuz their RTX3050 cant run the game at 4K60 max settings.

 

[KungFucius]

I don’t see the problem. As the guy said



All these breathless threads when a Series S game is at 30fps meanwhile the people who bought them know it’s a significantly weaker console than the X, but also significantly cheaper.

MS cheaped out on the specs and should really have done better. But devs are managing with the limitations and the world is moving on.

Why should they have done better? The margins on the S have to be lower than on the X. I mean if they think they are selling less and creating a distraction because of issues like this, then yeah they should have upped the specs. Still though they are selling the thing for 200 less, often 250 less. That should tell people it is last gen power that is compatible with current games and they should be OK with that trade off for 200 bucks.

I wonder how many of the people making a big deal about this have never deal with gaming on a PC. Shit has gotten pretty crazy in that space over the last few gens. If you want top performance you need to blow 2500 minimum on a system. If you want 1080p you can cut that in half. Same concept, larger cost difference.

Since people are buying the XSS, MS was right to try 2 different spec tiers and I expect they will continue and get better with this in future gens.