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Remedy thanks Epic Games for the support on developing Alan Wake

Larxia

Member
And yet, thats what Steam Fanboys seem to hate most, other launchers!
Are you sure? It bothers us for sure but as far as I'm concerned, I never hated launchers such as Origin or battlenet as much as Epic.
You know what? I even used to use the older epic launcher to play Paragon back in the day, before it became the Epic Game Store. It's annoying but "tolerable" when it's for games published by that specific company (which is the case for Alan Wake II, it's not just because of alan wake II that we hate that launcher though), the problem with Epic is how they try to make every third party games exclusive to their launcher. Steam does not buy exclusives, the games that happen to be "exclusives" there are just because it's the prefered platform to sell games.
 

brian0057

Banned
khuB8KS.jpg
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Maybe because they provide a good service / experience unlike Epic?
94% of Game Developers agree that Valve doesnt.
Valve has been getting an F in customer service every single year for over a decade, so where is that "good" service?

If epic had an amazing platform with ton of great features, maybe people would be interested to go there. What they do is the opposite, they aren't interested in making their launcher better, they just want to force people to go there by making it the only option to play certain games, instead of providing a better experience to attract people.
Even if Epic matched Steam 100% or exceeded them in features, it would not change anything!
People have their game libraries on Steam, thats all that matters. They wont switch, no matter what Epic does!

It's weird to me to not understand how this does not benefit the consumer.
Nor do Monopolies - in the case of Valve with their over 70% market share, they just extract money and the consumer will have to pay more in the end due to the lack of competition.

Are you sure? It bothers us for sure but as far as I'm concerned, I never hated launchers such as Origin or battlenet as much as Epic.
You know what? I even used to use the older epic launcher to play Paragon back in the day, before it became the Epic Game Store. It's annoying but "tolerable" when it's for games published by that specific company (which is the case for Alan Wake II, it's not just because of alan wake II that we hate that launcher though), the problem with Epic is how they try to make every third party games exclusive to their launcher. Steam does not buy exclusives, the games that happen to be "exclusives" there are just because it's the prefered platform to sell games.
I hate all launchers, I come from a time when those shitty launchers didnt exist and you just installed your game and played it!
Steam isnt the preferred platform to sell, its the ONLY platform to sell, they are the market, so they can dictate that market!
 

Kaleinc

Banned
Well of course. You can't compete with latest iphone with your brick sized 2 kilo black and white trash phone that has a 4 kilo battery and needs to be recharged every hour, retards.
Epic fanboys are like flat earthers, no matter what facts you provide the earth is still flat. Fuck off with your inferior shit laucnher that is asking the same money as a better launcher. And is one of gazillion shit launchers no one cares about.
Like you gonna jump off itunes with all the purchased music to ztunes, rebuy everything there, even though ztunes is barely functional, stupid bitch :)
 

Larxia

Member
94% of Game Developers agree that Valve doesnt.
Valve has been getting an F in customer service every single year for over a decade, so where is that "good" service?
Well first I highly doubt your claims, but even so, I was talking about consumers, not devs. It's weird, in these arguments related to Epic, it seems like epic defenders never care about the user experience at all, it's only always about devs.

People have their game libraries on Steam, thats all that matters. They wont switch, no matter what Epic does!
So what? We just accept an inferior experience just because epic is the "smaller" guy and for some reason it makes them the one we have to protect?
 

HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
Epic's game launcher launches games.
It's got all the features it needs really.
Except stuff that became standard with Steam years ago. I'm all for being happy for Alan Wake II (I'm thoroughly enjoying it), but Epic did not bring any positive major change to the PC experience.
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
Well first I highly doubt your claims, but even so, I was talking about consumers, not devs. It's weird, in these arguments related to Epic, it seems like epic defenders never care about the user experience at all, it's only always about devs.
Developer opinion:

Consumer opinion:

One does not have to be an Epic defender to understand that competition is better than no competition.

So what? We just accept an inferior experience just because epic is the "smaller" guy and for some reason it makes them the one we have to protect?
It has nothing to do with Epic being the smaller guy, it has to do with upholding comeptition to force Valve to get better.
Right now they have no reason to get better!
 

Herr Edgy

Member
Well one thing is clear, the people here hating on EGS (disliking is fine btw) to the point this is becoming a war of 'ethics', would clearly be in favor of central planning and communism provided they thought the central planning was going well (aka Steam). Certified gold medals in the Olympic's mental gymnastics.

It's funny how monopoly here gets redefined into "company with bad morals". That's not what a monopoly is. A monopoly simply owns majority of market so that competition can't reasonably exist anymore as competition itself is penalized.
This is what's happening here because devs have to put their games on Steam for them to be properly profitable. Because that's where the market is. There's what the market is. That's what the problem with monopolies is. And I say that as someone who likes Valve.

This particular instance is even more funny because Epic financed the game. It being exclusive to their platform is pretty normal. Where's the criticism that Fortnite isn't on Steam? Or that CSGO 2 isn't on EGS? It doesn't exist because people know this is fine.
 

HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
Right now they have no reason to get better!
Sounds like after 5 years, Epic needs to start bringing some competition then! :p

Herr Edgy Herr Edgy

Fortnite was made by Epic and never had a previous game on Steam. CS:Go was made by Valve/Hidden Path and never had a previous game on Epic. Alan Wake II is the sequel to a game that was on Steam and was made by Remedy. Apples-to-Pears comparison.
 
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Herr Edgy

Member
Thus, Epic is bringing no competition? Got it.

Herr Edgy Herr Edgy

Fortnite was made by Epic and never had a previous game on Steam. CS:Go was made by Valve/Hidden Path and never had a previous game on Epic. Alan Wake II is the sequel to a game that was on Steam and was made by Remedy. Apples-to-Pears comparison.
As I have to represent I will not argue with you as I can tell it's happening in bad faith.

👋
 

Larxia

Member
This particular instance is even more funny because Epic financed the game. It being exclusive to their platform is pretty normal. Where's the criticism that Fortnite isn't on Steam? Or that CSGO 2 isn't on EGS? It doesn't exist because people know this is fine.
I don't have that much of a problem with that. Like I said earlier in the thread, I used to even play Paragon on the epic launcher (before it was the Epic Game Store, it used to be a smaller launcher just for Unreal Engine, Fortnite, Paragon and Unreal Tournament). Sure I would have preferred to play it on Steam, but it wasn't, so I played it there, it was their own game and I was okay with that. The same way I played some EA games on Origin, or played Genshin Impact even if it's not on Steam.

What I don't like about Epic is that they extended that beyond their own IPs, that's completely different, and since they don't make any effort in improving their platform, we're stuck with subpar experience compared to what it would be on Steam with more quality of life features and things we're used to.

The biggest example for me is Kingdom Hearts. I love Kingdom Hearts, and I'm really sad that the series isn't on steam. Why? Because Kingdom Hearts isn't just a game that I play once and be done with and move on. It's something I go back to very regularly, I would love to have all my stats on steam given how important these games are for me. I also create mods for kingdom hearts ( like this ) I spend a lot of time on this, and it would be a lot more convenient for me if it was on steam. The games would also have a lot more visiblity, and steam workshop would make it even better for mods.
The steam deck is also an important new thing to take in consideration. It's almost impossible to play these games correctly on the Deck, a lot of people gave up on the idea because of how problematic it is. This wouldn't be an issue if this was on Steam.

Steam isn't just a "launcher" for me, it's really my main app on my pc, I always have it open, I use it to talk text chat with friends more than discord actually, I use the forums, the screenshot sharing features, it's almost like the second part of my OS, like people are on their consoles with all the different features, so yes, if I can, I prefer to have my games on there. I can do exceptions, I did before on several occasions, I played Mirror's Edge Catalyst on Origin, I played overwatch on battlenet, paragon on epic, different things like this, but what Epic does now is different, it doesn't concern just their own published games, which would be easier to understand for me.

I wouldn't be upset about Alan Wake 2 being exclusive to the epic game launcher if the context was different, here it's just the store in general that I have problems with, not their own published products. I also use Unreal Engine, I don't hate Epic as a whole, I just don't like their store and exclusivity policy.
 
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HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
I don't have that much of a problem with that. Like I said earlier in the thread, I used to even play Paragon on the epic launcher (before it was the Epic Game Store, it used to be a smaller launcher just for Unreal Engine, Fortnite, Paragon and Unreal Tournament). Sure I would have preferred to play it on Steam, but it wasn't, so I played it there, it was their own game and I was okay with that. The same way I played some EA games on Origin, or played Genshin Impact even if it's not on Steam.

What I don't like about Epic is that they extended that beyond their own IPs, that's completely different, and since they don't make any effort in improving their platform, we're stuck with subpar experience compared to what it would be on Steam with more quality of life features and things we're used to.
All of this, exactly. Folks who take issue with Epic couldn't give a damn about Fortnite being exclusive to their store or CS:GO being exclusive to Steam. Those games were made by the storefront's owners. Of course they would be exclusive.

I'm just saying I get why people might take issue with Wake II.
 
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Herr Edgy

Member
[...] but what Epic does now is different, it doesn't concern just their own published games, which would be easier to understand for me.

I wouldn't be upset about Alan Wake 2 being exclusive to the epic game launcher if the context was different, here it's just the store in general that I have problems with, not their own published products. I also use Unreal Engine, I don't hate Epic as a whole, I just don't like their store and exclusivity policy.
Alan Wake 2 is Epic's published game. It's quite literally the same as any other publisher deciding to publish their game how they see fit. If you agree with that, good, but others aren't.

The exclusivity deals are one thing and I understand why people wouldn't like them, even though I think the way people are arguing is faulty. Epic isn't forbidding anything in that sense, nobody is being forced. Devs & Epic enter an agreement that they find to be an advantage for themselves; if gamers feel like they are losing out because of it, naturally a negative reaction is understandable. But the severity of that reaction when it is just a launcher (and yes, you can use Steam to be in contact with your friends just the same) and to assign the 'blame' for it on Epic alone, when the devs have an equal voice here, seems weird.
As if Epic is forcing this on people. They aren't. They are offering good conditions, devs like these conditions.

If people are going to be upset about Epic seeking these deals in the first place, let me play devil's advocate and ask: should gamers maybe blame themselves for supporting the conditions under which exclusivity deals seem reasonable to Epic & Devs?
Most gamers don't care about the industry and what makes things work. We have literally people saying in this very thread they don't care about devs, they only care about themselves, the consumers.
Well, maybe if they did care they'd contribute to a healthier industry with more competition & less of a need for exclusivity deals to break up a monopoly. If you are using Unreal Engine and are part of the industry, surely you also know that the majority of games don't make more than 5k in their lifetime. I wouldn't say Valve is to blame for that, but surely there is something going on that isn't going well for a lot of devs either way. Who can be mad at people seeking the best for themselves? But if you are fine with screwing over other people, don't be mad if you get screwed over yourself.

Opinions of people arguing out of willful ignorance can be discarded like any toddler's tantrum.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's called absolute retardation. Competition is good. And I'm thankful to Epic that they invested in such a project. Seems like it was a dream for Sam Lake and it wouldn't happen without Epic's money.

Enjoy the lesser version, man.

Completely agree.
 

Codeblew

Member
The only games that are exclusive to steam are because devs wish so.
The only games that are epic exclusive is because epic want so.

Choice vs no choice
Yeah, amazing what monopolies can do. In reality, if the devs want to make money, they have to go with the monopoly option.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Lmao why would you want them to do that?

If you don't want those free games just don't click the button.
Because it's hurting them, which is a dumb tactic, their putting their eggs in a basket that doesn't benefit them and don't take care of actual tactics that benefits users and they as a company
 
I don’t care if you like Epic or not but you are a gamer and care for good artistic games you should give them mad props for financing this project.

AW2 is everything but suitable for the mass market and Epic fronting them the budget to make it this professional is impressive.

Thanks Timmy! 😘
 

Monserrat

Banned
Well one thing is clear, the people here hating on EGS (disliking is fine btw) to the point this is becoming a war of 'ethics', would clearly be in favor of central planning and communism provided they thought the central planning was going well (aka Steam). Certified gold medals in the Olympic's mental gymnastics.

It's funny how monopoly here gets redefined into "company with bad morals". That's not what a monopoly is. A monopoly simply owns majority of market so that competition can't reasonably exist anymore as competition itself is penalized.
This is what's happening here because devs have to put their games on Steam for them to be properly profitable. Because that's where the market is. There's what the market is. That's what the problem with monopolies is. And I say that as someone who likes Valve.

This particular instance is even more funny because Epic financed the game. It being exclusive to their platform is pretty normal. Where's the criticism that Fortnite isn't on Steam? Or that CSGO 2 isn't on EGS? It doesn't exist because people know this is fine.

If Tim had any proof of Valve being an illegal monopoly I'm pretty sure he would have taken Gabe to court already.
 

Edder1

Member
Nah. Remedy owns the i.p. Same as the time with Control. Same as Death Standing.
But publishing right belong to Epic, that's the most important part. This game was fully funded by Epic, it will be in contrast that it stays exclusive to their store for what I would imagine will be at least a 10 year period.
 
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How is this game? It seems like a pain in the ass. I don't actually want to sit and piece together clues to progress. If it frequent it not that bad?
 

Astray

Member
Because it's hurting them, which is a dumb tactic, their putting their eggs in a basket that doesn't benefit them and don't take care of actual tactics that benefits users and they as a company
I mean if it's hurting them they'd stop. But it's probably not hurting them at all.
 

Elysium44

Banned
Well I'm 8h in I can describe AW2 as a horror arthouse A24 film, but it's a game instead (in the best way possible). Props to Epic Games for footing the bill, because sure as shit no other big publisher would have touched it (for better or worse).

If the game is as good as the fans here say, why wouldn't any publisher jump at the opportunity?

Seems like it's another very niche game with a vocal but small fanbase which leaves everyone else cold, like the original which wasn't a commercial success. I suspect this won't be either and is more of a vanity production which wouldn't have occurred without being subsidised by Epic, which the devs seem to have tacitly acknowledged with that tweet.
 

Denton

Member
Please provide evidence, as far as I know and read the game was fully funded Epic.
Not that hard to find..


A big thank you for Alan Wake being able to be so bold in pushing our ideas further than ever before does go to Epic Games Publishing, and [publishing boss] Hector Sanchez in particular when we were pitching this game for funding, because they have been a big part of funding even though Remedy has funded part of it.
 

JimboJones

Member
I have to admit this was a good move from Epic.
I can't be mad at buying it on EGS if the game wouldn't exist without Epic. It reminds on Bayonetta 2 and 3 with Nintendo involvement.
I can still be disappointed in having to use a worse piece of software to run it. Just like you can be disappointed Bayo 2 and 3 are now trapped on Nintendo's weaker hardware.
 

Denton

Member
Sounds to me like Epic funded most of the game, if not vast majority of it. Highly doubt you'll see this on Steam for good few years.
Sounds to me like you are speculating, because they did not state what percentage each funded.

Either way, even if Remedy only funded 5%, they could have asked Epic for a possibility of steam release down the line into the contract. But I agree it is unlikely to happen in first couple years.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
If you're skipping this game on PC because it's not on Steam, I'm sorry to report but you're absolutely retarded.
I came up with the perfect solution, I'll play it on PS5, since my current PC barely scrapes the minimum requirement, then I'll buy it on PC when I upgrade, by that time I can get it on steam.

If Epic were my only choice, I would buy it there, then get it on steam later.
 

Edder1

Member
S
Sounds to me like you are speculating, because they did not state what percentage each funded.

Either way, even if Remedy only funded 5%, they could have asked Epic for a possibility of steam release down the line into the contract. But I agree it is unlikely to happen in first couple years.
It's speculation based on Remedy stating more than once that the game is only happening because of Epic, which can only mean main source of funding came from them. Two years is being optimistic imo.
 

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
If the game is as good as the fans here say, why wouldn't any publisher jump at the opportunity?

Seems like it's another very niche game with a vocal but small fanbase which leaves everyone else cold, like the original which wasn't a commercial success. I suspect this won't be either and is more of a vanity production which wouldn't have occurred without being subsidised by Epic, which the devs seem to have tacitly acknowledged with that tweet.
Well you basically answered the question all by yourself. A different 3rd party publisher might have meddled in the creative process by pushing the devs into making AW2 a more mainstream action focused experience to increase the chance of better sales and ROI. Of course, this is just a supposition, and maybe I'm wrong with this, but like I said I'm very happy with Epic providing Remedy with all the money they needed to make Alan Wake 2 true to their vision without any creative compromise.
 

Kaleinc

Banned
All the lovers of competition, how come you aren't playing Alan wake on intel arc instead of 4090 - it's good for competition.
Yeah, thought so.
Most gamers don't care about the industry and what makes things work. We have literally people saying in this very thread they don't care about devs, they only care about themselves, the consumers.
Like you care about slaves in sweatshops when you buy a phone, car or literally anything. Better and cheaper and preferably with a juicy discount too.
Authentic hypocrites
Epic is neither better nor cheaper. What competitive edge does it offer?
 

marjo

Member
Since Epic is publishing this game, I can understand why it isn't on any other launcher. But when Epic pays 3rd party games to be exclusive to their store, that's the opposite of increasing competition. There are very real reasons to prefer Steam (Family Sharing, In Home Streaming, SteamDeck support, etc.), and Epic's shitty business practices does not ingratiate them to the PC community.
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
But when Epic pays 3rd party games to be exclusive to their store, that's the opposite of increasing competition.
Oh look, NeoGAF user marjo just revolutionized decades of economic knowledge!

You have a developer that has a product to sell.
You have distribution channels like Steam and EGS that want to sell that product!
Both distribution channels offer the developer something for their product.
Developer picks the offer that makes more profit for themselves!

Now please Mr Economic Genius explains us how this ISNT competition!

There are very real reasons to prefer Steam (Family Sharing, In Home Streaming, SteamDeck support, etc.), and Epic's shitty business practices does not ingratiate them to the PC community.
Valve using illegal methods to defend their monopoly = good business practice
Epic using legal methods to attack the monopoly = shitty business practice
Black is white, and white is black!
 

marjo

Member
Oh look, NeoGAF user marjo just revolutionized decades of economic knowledge!

You have a developer that has a product to sell.
You have distribution channels like Steam and EGS that want to sell that product!
Both distribution channels offer the developer something for their product.
Developer picks the offer that makes more profit for themselves!

Now please Mr Economic Genius explains us how this ISNT competition!


Valve using illegal methods to defend their monopoly = good business practice
Epic using legal methods to attack the monopoly = shitty business practice
Black is white, and white is black!

I'm not sure if you're being disingenuous, or if you're really this obtuse, though judging from your strangely aggressive stance, I certainly suspect the later. When people talk about competition, they are referring to it from their perspective. From the consumer's perspective, this clearly limits their choice. Is it really that hard for you to comprehend? It would be as if your favourite product would only be available at Walmart when you prefer to shop at Target. It has nothing to do with legal/illegal. Nobody is claiming what Epic is doing is illegal. It's just an anti-consumer move that makes people justifiably pissed off at them.
 
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