Support NeoGAF

[Chuck Norris]

Sure, I get that. But it's also hard for someone to be "white men are the lowest on the totem pole" when they, by an overwhelming majority, control most of the world's wealth.

If life is getting harder for the average white rural male, it's because everyone else has been trying to get an actual slice of the pie, while he's been auctioning off greater slices of his pie to the super wealthy via way of conservative politicians. So of course it seems like everyone is doing better than him. He had the most to lose.

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

 

[The Kree]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

Liberals didn't divide anybody. Liberals don't sell the lie that whiteness makes one inherently more deserving of opportunity and success. Conservatives do that.

This country was FOUNDED on the idea that it's white males vs. everyone else. When poor whites were actual slaves along side Africans, it was the white slaves who were freed and given land and money so that they wouldn't form an uprising against slave owners.

They didn't politely ask to borrow this land and they didn't invite Africans over for brunch. Open a history book before you accuse the people fighting for actual equality of being divisive.

 

[WiiredShawn]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

In general, I agree about the perception issue. To the best extent possible, Democrats should be reaching out to these voters and helping them understand that they're not at war with women and minorities for scarce resources, but that the wealthiest are creating the illusion that money is more scarce than it is.

At the same time, these white males are likely not ignorant that white males control most of the wealth in the country. They can turn on TV and see that many of the richest people are white men. It's not easy to convince them that "white men are screwing you over" when they are white men. When combined with their traditional values of women being subservient and minorities being invisible, I don't know how many of them really want to cooperate. Their vote for Trump seems to speak to their belief that things just need to be good for them again.

And I say this as a white male.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Disregarding that a race that makes up the majority of the population is going to be more likely to be murdered, when discussing matters is race it's important to look at who is more likely to be murdered due to the color of their skin, and black makes win that contest.

As for the rest of your post, of course white men have problems. However, statements claiming they are on the bottom of the societal totem pole are absurd.

My issue is that countering an absurd statement with eye rolls and "white men are the ruling class" arguments are just as absurd and exactly the sort of divisive attitude that led to the election result. Of course with a topic like this it was always going to go that way. But how do we change that? How do we get white males off of gender and racial politics? It certainly isn't by reversing the racial argument and grouping all white males into styling class that has it fantastic and doesn't have real world issues that are often being overlooked

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You're still being disingenuous.

I'm no telepath so if you want to tell me what I'm really thinking you have to write it down. Perhaps it's my lack of telepathy that also makes me sceptical of headlines like this that invent what people are really thinking with data that seems inconclusive to me.

 

[Caja 117]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

Sir, as an a Hispanic living in this country dont come here to tell me that white males have equal or worst social problems as I have to go trough, because of the color of my skin and foreign background.

No one here is grouping White males as a group of bad people, but to say that White males have it worst or as bad as a Minority, not specifically in in the economic sense, but in the social sense, its absurd and completely false.

 

[Nepenthe]

You're telling me white Republican men have a persecution complex and think they're below women on the totem pole after electing a white man who grabs pussies?

What a shocker.

 

[whyamihere]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

Maybe we shouldn't treat class and race/gender as separate issues, because they are linked.

It's not the 1% versus everyone else. You're erasing the real racial and gender issues that exist within that structure. But you can't just focus on race and gender either. Not having a holistic take towards this issue is a huge mistake.

 

[jessicar]

I would say reports and baseless opinions such as these are charged upon fear and the desire to shut women up. It's not a better time to be a woman and it never will be. Unfortunately, majority of the issues women deal with on a day to day basis will never be resolved appropriately. I just hate men that can't recognise that.

 

[daveo42]

The same thing could be said about white privilege and racial inequality. If they can't see it or experience it, then it can't exist. Not a slight on religion, but you'd think these men would have a little faith in something they haven't seen with their own eyes.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Gender equity has different definitions, it's true, and we know that there is a sharp split in the educational information the internet feeds to people of different political tribes. For a right winger equality might go no further in definition than old equal pay and opportunities legislations of the past. But democrats are constantly fed stories about equality of outcome such as women being under represented in certain fields.

Old? Some of that hasn't even been achieved.

 

[TheRed]

Why are they such pussies?
Any time other groups get some progress they whine about their position.

 

[Plum]

what a bunch of pussies!

Why are they such pussies?

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to use a gendered slur implying women are weak (even if it is a Trump joke) in a scenario such as this?

 

[Toxi]

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else.

Is it only the 1% class who wants to stop women from having abortions, teach creationism in public schools, stop gay people from marrying, keep minorities out of their neighborhoods, and deport all undocumented immigrants?

Or are you going to say those issues don't matter? That it would all be hunky-dory if we just focused on getting even with the 1%? That none of the serious fucking issues with this country can be attributed to the large block of Americans who have been voting Republican since 1968?

 

[sugarhigh4242]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

 

[Hypron]

These guys are absolutely delusional...

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Old? Some of that hasn't even been achieved.

You mean that you do not have equal pay legislation in the USA? What?

 

[alternade]

I swear if white men aren't allowed to control every aspect of society or the power exchange is shared a bit with others, they scream OPPRESSION as if its their right to rule over us all. Pathetic really.....

 

[Beartruck]

I imagine most of the men saying that are paying child support.

 

[Vicetrailia]

White men have more proper competition now.

 

[Volimar]

They're not wrong. I mean, as a man, I'll never know the joy of being grabbed by the pussy by the President of the United States.

 

[Slayven]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

 

[Meowster]

I don't know how this can be said when the most qualified candidate in the modern American era (who was a woman) lost to a sexist pig with the least experience in history. Who openly went out of his way to humiliate her. Ugh.

 

[Hazel Nut]

Ironically I just had the president of our division tell me today that his new female boss only got that position because she slept her way to it.

Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe how I felt about his remark.

 

[Demy]

The tenderest of flowers

 

[Pau]

Ironically I just had the president of our division tell me today that his new female boss only got that position because she slept her way to it.

Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe how I felt about his remark.

Just another example of how women have more opportunities! What man has the chance of getting a higher position by sleeping his way into it?

Spoiler

/s

 

[Shaanyboi]

I don't even know how someone could come up with that opinion. Are they that ignorant?

They're Republicans.

 

[pashmilla]

That heady cocktail of male fragility and white fragility is a powerful one indeed...

 

[mr jones]

[thread derail]

I just wanna say that this guy right here:

Billionaire Larry Ellison is 72 years old. Old man looks good.

[/thread derail]

 

[water_wendi]

i half expected a line like "Soon my childhood dream of having a white man in the White House will come true" to come out of his mouth lol

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Semantic point here, but asking people if they've felt "unequal" is poor phrasing because technically the person who is underprivileged and the person who's overprivileged are both having unequal experiences, it's just that one person benefits from the inequality.

That said, I doubt all 22% of republican men were considering that when they said they've felt as though they'd been treated unequally for their race.

On one hand, I always say you shouldn't discount someone's lived experiences, and on the other hand I just don't understand how that statistic could be true.

 

[midramble]

Of course.

What pair of clothing can a man wear that has the sex appeal to the opposite gender, comfort, and general public acceptance as yoga pants?

Case closed.

 

[Shadybiz]

Of course.

What pair of clothing can a man wear that has the sex appeal to the opposite gender, comfort, and general public acceptance as yoga pants?

Case closed.

That's right! These women have discovered Kryptonite, and now they can't be stopped!!

 

[MGrant]

Of course.

What pair of clothing can a man wear that has the sex appeal to the opposite gender, comfort, and general public acceptance as yoga pants?

Case closed.

 

[Mistake]

You just have to put it in a way they can understand, like how women face a lifetime of cold toilet seats.

 

[mackattk]

Well their gang leader, Beyonce, spells it out in plain english that girls run the world.. they kind of have a point...

 

[Alienfan]

While people thinking their own hardships are more significant than another groups, because they underestimate that groups oppression (as they've never experienced it) is psychology 101; I don't know if that title fits the data, as the question "is it better to be a man or woman" was never asked, it was two separate questions that seem up for interpretation. I could see myself answering yes/yes (if I was comparing to the past), or no/no if talking about gender equality in present day being satisfactory

 

[Eusis]

I don't even know how someone could come up with that opinion. Are they that ignorant?

I did have a similar thought as a teenager, but I think the nature of that thought and my own internalized response to that is very, very different from what we're seeing here, as that's more "if I want to like cute things then I can, or if some guy wants to wear a dress he should be allowed to!" rather than what is probably "these women are getting all this free money and easily getting jobs men have to struggle for, it's unfair!" when the latter isn't the case or is meant to help compensate for an innate disparity (fewer women in tech fields for instance) and the former is probably caused partially by the people claiming the latter!

EDIT: I actually probably put the above in a misleading way, I felt like women could more freely express themselves than men could, and while I learned since that might technically be true but no where near as idealistic as I'd like (see the actual discrimination being faced) but is largely the fault of the same kind of men who feel women are threatening them; those men are probably the ones who'd turn around and scold their kid for wanting a pink or purple shirt.

 

[TheRed]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to use a gendered slur implying women are weak (even if it is a Trump joke) in a scenario such as this?

I guess so but that was kinda the point. A lot of these type of people won't hesitate to call people that,but then they want to act like they're also tough when they're crying about every little thing that doesn't go their way. (Trump is a great example).

Also I guess in my life I've heard those words like calling someone a pussy or dick so much in a jokey manner. I didn't really think of them as gendered slurs that they are if taken seriously, my bad.

 

[Onemic]

I don't even know how someone could come up with that opinion. Are they that ignorant?

Ive met white people that said they think they face more discrimination and racism than black people today.

So yes, people are that ignorant.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Republicans keep being shitty, as always.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

Liberals have divided many white males because of racial and gender politics. They (like many in this thread) group low income white males with the ruling class and there has been a major rhetoric about the white male vs everyone else.

The real discussion should be the 1% class versus everyone else. They may be mostly white males but they don't represent the interests of most white males. Republicans have done a good job of making them think that they do, while Democrats have pushed this demographic to the side

How can you say it's Democrats being divisive when a central portion of the conservative/Republican is essentially "white men vs everyone else", "Us vs Them", and large scoopings of racism?(.

Democrats (of recent) deciding to focus on uplifting the lowest groups of Americans because that in turns helps EVERYONE isn't divisive. I'm really hating this narrative that not focusing on white men (for once) is the divisiveness. Like honestly…that's some white nonsense.

 

[Keri]

Likely focusing on what does benefit women more - incarceration rates, alimony, custody, maternity leave...things that would be solved if true equality were achieved.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the "benefits" of being a woman and I think your post (although well intentioned) exhibits this. For example, while you list alimony as a benefit of being a woman, it's not commonly awarded and it's awarded only to the lower earning (disadvantaged) spouse. Also, regardless of alimony (and contrary to the common perception) women are significantly more likely to experience poverty, following a divorce.

Next, while you mention custody as a benefit of being a woman, studies have found that fathers who ask for custody, receive it over 70% of the time.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by referring to "maternity leave" as a benefit of being a woman, but I'd remind you how limited maternity leave is in the U.S. and how much of what is protected is necessary just to physically recover from giving birth.

So many of the commonly believed "benefits" of being a woman are based on misinformation. It's a shame and it keeps people from really considering the effects of sexism.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

LOL that old man. White males are at the bottom of society's totem pole?

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I totally agree his issues are pointed in the wrong direction

BUT grouping all white males together is also extremely problematic. This kind of person does NOT feel the benefits of being a white male. As with most things all the benefits of the sort of hierarchy go to the ruling class

I don't know this guys specific situation but most retired police officers have a pretty sweet deal. Guaranteed pension on top of social security + medicare. Unless his town went through bankruptcy or something he has had social benefits that most minorities and women from that time period could only dream of.

 

[RiZ III]

Must be why we gave the most important job in the nation to the most unqualified man instead of the most overqualified woman.

 

[whyamihere]

Must be why we gave the most important job in the nation to the most unqualified man instead of the most overqualified woman.

lol, that too.

 

[Nydius]

I mean, who wouldn't want to be a woman in this new Republican dominated, Donald J. Trump world?! /s

Everything's so great for them and they never have to deal with creepy old men invading their space these days. Right? (also /s)

 

[watershed]

Ignorance personified.

 

[Christine]

I guess so but that was kinda the point. A lot of these type of people won't hesitate to call people that,but then they want to act like they're also tough when they're crying about every little thing that doesn't go their way. (Trump is a great example).

Also I guess in my life I've heard those words like calling someone a pussy or dick so much in a jokey manner. I didn't really think of them as gendered slurs that they are if taken seriously, my bad.

Sarcasm is cold currency nowadays and irony has never traveled well. I'd like to invite you to think about this less like a process where you decide whether "pussy" and "dick" are in the category called "gendered slurs" and therefore Words to Avoid Using Around Sensitive People and more like an exercise in understanding what people usually are trying to mean when they make these sorts of objections and observations.

Much of the world is gendered. Some of these associations are subtle and mild, others conspicuously uncompromising; and everything between. Sometimes these connections are or seem arbitrary, others convey easily available meaning and structure on their face.

In this case, what makes me think that "dick" and "pussy" are slurs structured around gender is not the mere fact that they refer to gendered anatomy, but that they establish an axis of comparison between complementary attributes in association to those references. Get down to the root of it--what do you use those words to mean? For me, the word named for feminine anatomy means weakness, cowardice, hesitation or lack of action where action should be. The word named for masculine anatomy means strength, action, or obstruction where the one saying it would prefer that it not be.

The relationship between these ideas is between the poles of action and inaction, success and failure. This line is a load bearing wall of the structure of our world since long before we knew it. I like it when the protagonist gets the opportunity to
dick around the villain who's been a Dick The Whole Time. There's a contextual element. On the other hand, Being a Pussy is always bad and never admirable. That's how I know that sexism isn't just something that is but something that is unfair.