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[ErikB]

Still too empowering.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's funny you say that, because I've always felt the labyrinthine structure and puzzle solving was the weakest part of RE. It's in fact what made me stop playing the series until RE4.

It's boring, it can be incredibly frustrating, and it takes away from what attracted me to RE in the first place: Shooting zombies in the face.

To that end, RE4 was the perfect RE. An emphasis on action and atmosphere over mazes and puzzles.

Well, RE never really nailed it, IMO, but the balance was good enough that it kept the action from collapsing in on itself due to more emphasis when it just wasn't that good to begin with. I thought that the combination of the two is what made it mostly work. Doom isn't Doom without the keycards and more complex map layouts because, just based on action alone, it would fail to be good enough to sustain one's interest for very long. I feel the same way about RE which is why I can only really stand to play RE5 in co-op as that keeps things more challenging and dynamic. It could save RE6 for me, but the action and setups don't seem to be nearly as satisfying. I also never gave two fucks about the story or characters in RE, but they were better than a vacuum of nothingness in place of lost exploration and some modicum of critical thinking for recalling where to put what with its key & lock progression.

 

[kunonabi]

It's funny you say that, because I've always felt the labyrinthine structure and puzzle solving was the weakest part of RE. It's in fact what made me stop playing the series until RE4.

It's boring, it can be incredibly frustrating, and it takes away from what attracted me to RE in the first place: Shooting zombies in the face.

To that end, RE4 was the perfect RE. An emphasis on action and atmosphere over mazes and puzzles.

This why this whole situation is so frustrating. You had people who loved RE for everything that it brought to the table and people who liked them in spite of what the games were. Now the games are made with this latter group and new players in mind. Those of who us loved everything about the games and supported the series from the beginning are the only ones being truly left in the cold. It sucks but there really isn't anything to be done about it aside from just playing something else.

 

[Riposte]

What in the world are you talking about? RE4 while certainly having more "action" was still through and through Survival Horror.

Survivor-Horror continues to be a mostly meaningless term, being two separate themes conjoined in a useless fashion. If RE4 was so "survival", then why add a whole set of melee mechanics (featuring kung-fu kicks and wrestling moves) which diminishes the need of ammo? Why make ammo quite plentiful (drops from enemies) on top of this? Why remove the limit on saves and making it one less resource to worry about? Why have a store where you could buy things?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

It was still a large change in direction, just was more of an adventure game instead of the adrenaline action fest 5 was. 5 took a large leap towards pure action but the fact remains that 4 was still a large departure in it's execution and tone than all the predecessors. The game play changes and control scheme alone make it so.

Those changes didn't fundamentally move it away from where it came from. It was the perfect balance of the roots the series came from and the more modern control scheme afforded by newer games and a brilliant camera system that was copied by everyone. The core of the series was still complete survival horror. It was still genuinely terrifying. The staples were all still there: Limited Ammo, Overpowered Enemies, Atmosphere Atmosphere Atmosphere. To succeed in RE4 just like the previous games you had to use everything at your disposal to get the upper hand and sometimes you just had to run.

Survivor-Horror continues to be a mostly meaningless term, being two separate themes conjoined in a useless fashion. If RE4 was so "survival", then why add a whole set of melee mechanics (featuring kung-fu kicks and wrestling moves) which diminishes the need of ammo? Why make ammo quite plentiful (drops from enemies) on top of this? Why remove the limit on saves and making it one less resource to worry about?

Ammo is by no means plentiful in RE4. Just in the village section alone if you don't manage your melee attacks to get guys down to get a easier headshot your screwed. Your inundated with people and the only thing you can do is run and try to separate the townsfolk so you have time to melee this one guy before the other jumps on you. Its a complete management of resources and the tension is extremely high because of it.

Survivor Horror isn't 'Meaningless' in any fashion. It very succinctly describes what the game is going for. Horror atmosphere + Low Survivability(Which can come from overpowered enemies, scant ammo...)

 

[Red Blaster]

lol. This is the kind of shit this thread needs, eh?

If the shoe fits

What does this have to do with Michael Bay? This quality of being similar in tone with a blockbuster action movie (this alone is a huge generalization) is far too common (and far too beloved) to be put in Michael Bay's name alone. The reason behind the association is clear. You think Michael Bay is BAD! And you want to say Resident Evil 6 is BAD! So you picked the laziest way to do it, one that doesn't even put into consideration the fact one of these things is a videogame (at least Call of Duty implies a comment on level design). This is why people don't say Vanquish is Call of Duty or "Michael Bay", even though it is at least as much so as Resident Evil 6 (or 5 or 4 or 3 and so on).

I'm being vague as this is the OT and the game is not out yet. I'm using Michael Bay as a generalized term signifying a marketing-driven, appeal-to-the-lowest-common-denominator ideology; I'm sure you knew that already though. RE6 takes after Michael Bay both literally in its boring over-the-top insanity and figuratively in its pathetically calculated design that embodies the stereotype of what the out-of-touch Japanese developer thinks appeals to the Western enthusiast gamer.

And nobody says Vanquish is Michael Bay because while it's pure cheesecake on the outside its impassioned game design more than makes up for it.

I loved RE4 and I liked RE5 even if it was rather milquetoast in its execution so I'm not one of those blaring the survival horror horn either. Everything I've seen of RE6 indicates that it'll be shit.

 

[thetrin]

Well, RE never really nailed it, IMO, but the balance was good enough that it kept the action from collapsing in on itself due to more emphasis when it just wasn't that good to begin with. I thought that the combination of the two is what made it mostly work. Doom isn't Doom without the keycards and more complex map layouts because, just based on action alone, it would fail to be good enough to sustain one's interest for very long. I feel the same way about RE which is why I can only really stand to play RE5 in co-op as that keeps things more challenging and dynamic. It could save RE6 for me, but the action and setups don't seem to be nearly as satisfying. I also never gave two fucks about the story or characters in RE, but they were better than a vacuum of nothingness in place of lost exploration and some modicum of critical thinking for recalling where to put what with its key & lock progression.

Funnily enough, I also hate the key cards in Doom. They slow down the game immensely. I love the maze like levels, but hunting for that one yellow key card in a level always killed the tension completely.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Funnily enough, I also hate the key cards in Doom.

Haha...RE4 was the last good fusion of the two elements, certainly, and the first to have a very competent action element strong enough to work on its own (see RE5 where they dumped the part you hate). So, I do see where you're coming from.

 

[Dance Inferno]

This. As i said before, i really enjoyed revelations, as for the most part it merged the best of both worlds. I don't mind the action of the series, but i'd like to the removal of chapters and them bringing back typewriter saves, chests and large areas to explore and unlock.

It dawned on me as i typed that, that it's pretty much what Dead Space is these days. Give me what Dead Space is , set in an urban environment in the resident evil world. I'd be a happy chappy.

Eh? Dead Space 2 was as linear as Resident Evil 5. For that matter so was Dead Space 1. Where are these "large areas to explore and unlock" of which you speak? I enjoy DS as well, but let's not pretend it's a semi-open world; it's always been a linear, highly-focused atmospheric game.

 

[Riposte]

Ammo is by no means plentiful in RE4. Just in the village section alone if you don't manage your melee attacks to get guys down to get a easier headshot your screwed. Your inundated with people and the only thing you can do is run and try to separate the townsfolk so you have time to melee this one guy before the other jumps on you. Its a complete management of resources and the tension is extremely high because of it.

"Just in the village section alone" misrepresents the game. If anything, especially the village scene and visibly less so as the game progresses (and you become stronger, both as a character and player). In that scene, alone, you are introduced to finding ammo, grenades, and a weapon which helps you turn the tide (if you've become good at the game then you will rock it with finesse as if you were playing the Mercenaries). As the game progresses you see more upgrades, more weapons, and so on.

What you are saying isn't exactly unique outside how early it happens (a similar scenario happens somewhat as early as RE5 too though). More importantly, it refutes nothing I've said.

Btw, someone put this in the internet law books: EVERY DISCUSSION ON RESIDENT EVIL 4 REVOLVES AROUND ONE SCENE THAT HAPPENS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME.

It is totally fine to love that scene, I love it too, but people need to be more self-aware when they compliment it.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

We need a ban on talking about how good the village scene is in RE4

We get it guys. It's good. It's probably better then any opening section in RE6.

But there's like

19 other hours worth of great game you can point to.

 

[Astral]

I'm getting the impression that the level design is bad based on what I'm reading in this thread. That kinda kills it for me. Is it that bad? Is it that repetitive?

 

[The Xtortionist]

We need a ban on talking about how good the village scene is in RE4

We get it guys. It's good. It's probably better then any opening section in RE6.

But there's like

19 other hours worth of great game you can point to.

Water Hall?

 

[Snapshot King]

Water Hall?

DO NOT CALL ITS NAME

 

[Dance Inferno]

I'm getting the impression that the level design is bad based on what I'm reading in this thread. That kinda kills it for me. Is it that bad? Is it that repetitive?

The game isn't out, so we don't really know. Some people who have seen the stream say it's bad. Others who have seen the stream say it varies from good to bad. Until the game actually comes out though we won't know for sure.

If you're that worried about it just cancel your pre-order and wait for reviews. The only reason I have it pre-ordered is because 1) I played the everliving daylights out of RE5 and I feel like RE6 has the same DNA as that game, and 2) I ordered the Archives edition at $15 off on Newegg so I'm technically getting 4 games for $75.

 

[EloquentM]

We need a ban on talking about how good the village scene is in RE4

We get it guys. It's good. It's probably better then any opening section in RE6.

But there's like

19 other hours worth of great game you can point to.

we should ban every point of discussion you don't like.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I kick the Water Hall's ass with a good Sniper rifle. There's so many long narrow spaces you can funnel people through, and the rifles can even headshot through shields.

Now if I was playing the Water Hall with RE6 controls, Leon would probably trip over some bodies he didn't see and just finding the enemies is a fuckin' challenge.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Those changes didn't fundamentally move it away from where it came from. It was the perfect balance of the roots the series came from and the more modern control scheme afforded by newer games and a brilliant camera system that was copied by everyone. The core of the series was still complete survival horror. It was still genuinely terrifying. The staples were all still there: Limited Ammo, Overpowered Enemies, Atmosphere Atmosphere Atmosphere. To succeed in RE4 just like the previous games you had to use everything at your disposal to get the upper hand and sometimes you just had to run.



Ammo is by no means plentiful in RE4. Just in the village section alone if you don't manage your melee attacks to get guys down to get a easier headshot your screwed. Your inundated with people and the only thing you can do is run and try to separate the townsfolk so you have time to melee this one guy before the other jumps on you. Its a complete management of resources and the tension is extremely high because of it.

Survivor Horror isn't 'Meaningless' in any fashion. It very succinctly describes what the game is going for. Horror atmosphere + Low Survivability(Which can come from overpowered enemies, scant ammo...)

I don't know what RE4 you played, there was plenty of ammo for me. RE was about managing items, solving puzzles and maze like areas, on top of the action. RE4 changed all of that, it basically changed the genre. RE4 is a far different game to the originals but similar to RE5 and now RE6.

And everything you described about the village happens in RE5 as well. If you are not careful you can run out of ammo on both games.

 

[The Frankman]

What the Hell is going on here?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What the Hell is going on here?

Mourning the upcoming release of RE6 by celebrating the series' glorious past?

 

[Astral]

The game isn't out, so we don't really know. Some people who have seen the stream say it's bad. Others who have seen the stream say it varies from good to bad. Until the game actually comes out though we won't know for sure.

If you're that worried about it just cancel your pre-order and wait for reviews. The only reason I have it pre-ordered is because 1) I played the everliving daylights out of RE5 and I feel like RE6 has the same DNA as that game, and 2) I ordered the Archives edition at $15 off on Newegg so I'm technically getting 4 games for $75.

I still haven't pre-ordered it, but Amazon is giving $10 credit for pre-ordering it and I want that. If the game ends up being good, I get a good game and Persona 4 Golden for the awesome price of $29.99 once it comes out.

 

[SlasherJPC]

The thread was destined to go to shit after seeing the reactions since the first media coverage. It completely blows my mind that RE fans STILL bitch about the change to action. RE has not been a proper survival horror for OVER TEN YEARS. Code Veronica was the last time and that came out in 99-2000 ffs. It's as if all the RE fans went into cryogenic stasis for a decade and RE4 and 5 do not exist. The direction changed long ago people and if you didn't like it, why are you still here? RE is no longer for you, move along.

It's ok buddy! Some people just don't understand! From what I played...Your gonna love RE6! I know it.

 

[Dance Inferno]

I think people are forgetting some of the "tense" set pieces in RE5. The village at the beginning, while it hearkens back to the village in RE4, was plenty tense the first time the Executioner crashes through the wall of a building you were hiding out in. Or the first time you fight a chainsaw majini in what is basically an alley while other enemies pour in from all sides to bumrush you. Or the underground mines where one person had to control the light and the other person had to do the shooting. Or those damned Reapers that could one-shot you and were only vulnerable when they opened their chest as they were about to pounce on you.

RE5 might have been an action-heavy game but it was still able to maintain the tension in its fights.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

My point is, I don't know why people get so immersed into game ratings, I recall people being insanely angry at Gamestop for giving Skyward Sword a 6.75 or whatever, like if the review smeared the quality of the actual game or something.

Forget the 6.75. I still remember the infamous thread when Eurogamer gave Uncharted 3 8/10 and people were bashing the reviewer for that (and that was days before the game was released, so none of them even played it) :lol

It's obvious how people treat reviews: if the reviewer scores the game as the reader wants (either low or high, depends on the game), the review is good. Otherwise it is obviously biased, the reviewer is an idiot. Like you said, when Skyward Sword got 7.5/10 from Gamespot, or when IGN gave God Hand 3/10, they were comments like "IGNorance" or "lol, gaming journalism!". But now, suddenly, Gamespot became an oracle and if they really give RE6 4.5/10, then that means the game is truly shit!

We already have examples in this thread, where even after the game received few 7/10, 8/10 or even 9/10, some people, who already know that the game will obviously be shit, states that they are waiting for "true reviews".

What in the world are you talking about? RE4 while certainly having more "action" was still through and through Survival Horror.

Uhm... survival horror "through and through"? What? You had plenty of ammo (enemies dropped ammo for fucks sake), and even without ammo, knife + melee attacks were powerful enough to take care of most common enemies. The game turned you from a pray into a hunter. In previous games you very often had to dodge enemies and run away from them; here, the game encouraged you to kill them. By the end of the game you were literally a one man army.

And horror? Monsters + darkness doesn't turn the game into horror. Especially when the main character is cracking jokes left and right.

 

[MiamiWesker]

WAT. Was that the level in that Eastern European city or wherever? Where you were tailing some dude? Man that was an awesome level. I don't know why MGS4 gets so much hate on GAF, it's probably my favorite game of this generation.

Yes! Totally agree, I loved act 3. It was a total change of pace and allowed you so much freedom. If all you do is follow the the dude yeah it's pretty boring but if you explore, oh man the things you can do.

I love the fact that RE6 seems to have tons of variety. I rather a game attempt different new things than just stick to a simple formula from beginning to end.

 

[Red Blaster]

I think people are forgetting some of the "tense" set pieces in RE5. The village at the beginning, while it hearkens back to the village in RE4, was plenty tense the first time the Executioner crashes through the wall of a building you were hiding out in. Or the first time you fight a chainsaw majini in what is basically an alley while other enemies pour in from all sides to bumrush you. Or the underground mines where one person had to control the light and the other person had to do the shooting. Or those damned Reapers that could one-shot you and were only vulnerable when they opened their chest as they were about to pounce on you.

RE5 might have been an action-heavy game but it was still able to maintain the tension in its fights.

The first half of RE5 was great

It's the second half that oscillates between average to bad

 

[thetrin]

Uhm... survival horror "through and through"? What? You had plenty of ammo (enemies dropped ammo for fucks sake), and even without ammo, knife + melee attacks were powerful enough to take care of most common enemies. The game turned you from a pray into a hunter. In previous games you very often had to dodge enemies and run away from them; here, the game encouraged you to kill them. By the end of the game you were literally a one man army.

And horror? Monsters + darkness doesn't turn the game into horror. Especially when the main character is cracking jokes left and right.

And despite not being straight up survival horror, it ended up being better than every other RE game.

 

[CAVE343]

Was playing the Leon part of the demo again with laser sights and I noticed that when shooting his gun the laser turns off/disappears for a second and then comes back up. While playing with Piers his laser is always on while shooting.

Is there a particular reason for this, can't seem to recall that this was the same in RE4 and RE5. Just seemed a bit weird to me.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Oh yeah, the body trip mechanic is stupid. It seems cool the first time but then it just becomes so goofy. Try running around a body in the demo. It seems like a monty python sketch when your AI partner trips on it too.

The other problem was the dead bodies lying around. You just fucking know they'd turn into zombies, but it's so frustrating to not being able to kill them when they're not moving.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Was playing the Leon part of the demo again with laser sights and I noticed that when shooting his gun the laser turns off/disappears for a second and then comes back up. While playing with Piers his laser is always on while shooting.

Is there a particular reason for this, can't seem to recall that this was the same in RE4 and RE5. Just seemed a bit weird to me.

I believe that is a glitch.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

And despite not being straight up survival horror, it ended up being better than every other RE game.

Uhm... what's your point here? We were discussing whether or not RE4 was a true survival horror, not whether it's a better game.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I believe that is a glitch.

Well not really. It's the recoil from the gun making Leon's hand 'waver'. You need to adjust your aim a bit, or wait until it goes back to the center again.

 

[fluffydelusions]

ORC > RE6? Believe

 

[Dance Inferno]

And despite not being straight up survival horror, it ended up being better than every other RE game.

Ahem.

Long live the king!

 

[CAVE343]

Well not really. It's the recoil from the gun making Leon's hand 'waver'. You need to adjust your aim a bit, or wait until it goes back to the center again.

I understand that the recoil makes his hand waver, but why does the laser disappear completely? It should jump up, but not vanish completely I think.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Ahem.

Long live the king!

I wish they'd re-release this. I only ever played the PS1 version

 

[Riposte]

ORC > RE6? Believe

Who has said this?

 

[indigodomino]

The other problem was the dead bodies lying around. You just fucking know they'd turn into zombies, but it's so frustrating to not being able to kill them when they're not moving.

You can!
Use the alternate fire of the regular gun or the weapon of your choice and shoot them, they petrified creature will crumble and die!!

Edit: my bad, I misread it. Yeah, it sucks you can't kill those dormant zombies until they wake up!

 

[fluffydelusions]

Who has said this?

My attempt at trolling

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Ahem.

Long live the king!

*Internet high five*

Playing it on Dolphin and it's still glorious. Even with the low res backgrounds.

 

[Dance Inferno]

I wish they'd re-release this. I only ever played the PS1 version

They did kinda sorta re-release it for Wii.

Spoiler

480p lol

*Internet high five*

Playing it on Dolphin and it's still glorious. Even with the low res backgrounds.

Now THAT is how I want to play it. Sadly my computer would self-combust if I tried to run Dolphin on it.

 

[CAVE343]

Bit late, but I'll take this one if it hasn't been claimed yet

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I understand that the recoil makes his hand waver, but why does the laser disappear completely? It should jump up, but not vanish completely I think.

From what I've played the laser jumps more erratically than previous Resident Evil games.

The fact that it's hard to see the laser unless it's on an enemy doesn't help much too.

 

[Dance Inferno]

From what I've played the laser jumps more erratically than previous Resident Evil games.

The fact that it's hard to see the laser unless it's on an enemy doesn't help much too.

Are you using the laser or the dot? Switch to the laser to make your life easier.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think I'll cancer my $48 pre-order at Newegg, and get the 360 version at Amazon instead. That Mercenaries map has got to be worth $2.

 

[ErikB]

I understand that the recoil makes his hand waver, but why does the laser disappear completely? It should jump up, but not vanish completely I think.

It is probably because the game wasn't designed with the laser sight in mind. To make the laser sight they just drew a line between the gun an the laser dot. And the animations on the guns recoiling and cycling probably don't match what the laser dot does (if you had the laser coming straight out of the gun all the time). So rather than have the laser jump oddly between shots, they just turn it off.

 

[Evolved1]

Bit late, but I'll take this one if it hasn't been claimed yet

I don't think so... can't recall seeing anyone use it.

 

[meta4]

This game is going to be the John Cena of RE games.

Polarizing as fuck, booed by older vets of the RE series, cheered by the little kiddies (people new to the RE lineage), doesn't sell anything but RE merch.

Lol. There are actually some adults that cheer John Cena believe it or not.

 

[Astral]

Why is it that not a single RE character is married or at least in a relationship? They're not getting any younger. They need to start making babies. Here's hoping Leon finally smangs Ada.

 

[Dance Inferno]

I think I'll cancer my $48 pre-order at Newegg, and get the 360 version at Amazon instead. That Mercenaries map has got to be worth $2.

Your math is flawed. The $10 off is for a future purchase, so you're not getting RE6 for $50, but rather $55 if you're splitting the $10 between the two games. So you're paying $7 for one map.

It is probably because the game wasn't designed with the laser sight in mind. To make the laser sight they just drew a line between the gun an the laser dot. And the animations on the guns recoiling and cycling probably don't match what the laser dot does. So rather than have the laser jump oddly between shots, they just turn it off.

You have it backwards. The dot is just the same as the laser sight from RE4/5 except they removed the laser part. That's why the dot sometimes disappears. In RE5 for example, if you were aiming at an enemy or a breakable object, there was always a dot at the end of the laser. If you were aiming at a dead enemy or an unbreakable object, there was no dot at the end of the laser. That's what they did here - they just removed the laser, so sometimes the dot shows up if you can shoot something, otherwise it disappears.