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[StreetsofBeige]

Also why are people always assuming every business can afford that? Sometimes a position isn't worth 15, 20 or 30 dollars dollars an hour. People just flippantly say "pay them more" as if money falls out of the sky

Because the benchmark companies used in every wage fight war is Walmart and McDonalds. Two of the biggest companies in the world.

So every numb nut thinks if Wally and Micky D's can bump up wages $1.50/hr and still be profitable, every other business can too no problem.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Because the benchmark companies used in every wage fight war is Walmart and McDonalds. Two of the biggest companies in the world.

So every numb nut thinks if Wally and Micky D's can bump up wages $1.50/hr and still be profitable, every other business can too no problem.

There’s also the argument that higher wages are self-sustainable and just better for business.

Higher Pay -> Happier/More Productive Employees -> Higher Quality Goods/Services -> More customers and better customer loyalty -> Higher Profits

 

[StreetsofBeige]

There’s also the argument that higher wages are self-sustainable and just better for business.

Higher Pay -> Happier/More Productive Employees -> Higher Quality Goods/Services -> More customers and better customer loyalty -> Higher Profits

Possibly.

There can also be an argument that keeping wages and inflation low has lead to stable cost of living and giant profits, stock market and before covid the lowest US unemployment rate since the Beatles. Even during covid and people unemployed, many companies had record profits so it shows they might not even need low end workers. Online ordering and Ubereats take out have skyrocketed at the expense of traditional front line workers. I use kiosks myself half the time.

Low end workers overvalue their work. A long time ago, gas stations were full service or self service and you had to go into the hub to pay. They were probably the first industry to do self service pay at the pump. Everyone loves it and a typical gas station now only needs one worker. All it takes is something to prompt people to do it themselves with technology and half the front liners are out of a job, so IMO a worker with low skills I'd do my best to keep it going instead of instigating a fight where you can be outdated out of a job as the store manager decides to spend some time (like burger flippers thinking about what to do) and fast track modernize themselves.

And for many small mom and pop employers, if they go out of business, then nobody there has a job. Every small restaurant the closes is probably 15-20 FT or PT jobs gone. People with good jobs dont care. Most of us sill have a job.

And when inflation is low, so are loan and mortgage rates, which leads to higher home prices. So anyone owning a home (more people in the US than rent), the more wealth they build and are happier.

Every time costs and inflation go up (often times big oil crisis kinds of times), people lose jobs, costs go up and everyone (except oil companies) are miserable.

 

[Chankoras]

Possibly.

There can also be an argument that keeping wages and inflation low has lead to stable cost of living and giant profits, stock market and before covid the lowest US unemployment rate since the Beatles. Even during covid and people unemployed, many companies had record profits so it shows they might not even need low end workers. Online ordering and Ubereats take out have skyrocketed at the expense of traditional front line workers. I use kiosks myself half the time.

Low end workers overvalue their work. A long time ago, gas stations were full service or self service and you had to go into the hub to pay. They were probably the first industry to do self service pay at the pump. Everyone loves it and a typical gas station now only needs one worker. All it takes is something to prompt people to do it themselves with technology and half the front liners are out of a job, so IMO a worker with low skills I'd do my best to keep it going instead of instigating a fight where you can be outdated out of a job as the store manager decides to spend some time (like burger flippers thinking about what to do) and fast track modernize themselves.

And when inflation is low, so are loan and mortgage rates, which leads to higher home prices. So anyone owning a home (more people in the US than rent), the more wealth they build and are happier.

Every time costs and inflation go up (often times big oil crisis kinds of times), people lose jobs, costs go up and everyone (except oil companies) are miserable.

Too simplistic, inflation has been kept low in great part due to globalization, aka China, cheap goods, giant profits also at expense of labour due to oversupply, and new technologies. But since covid things have changed and workers are demanding a bit more since they have the upper hand in a way.
Many workers over value, not only low end, automation is coming to higher end industries as well, but in the meantime many of those jobs are important, such as food supply chains.

 

[oagboghi2]

Too simplistic, inflation has been kept low in great part due to globalization, aka China, cheap goods, giant profits also at expense of labour due to oversupply, and new technologies. But since covid things have changed and workers are demanding a bit more since they have the upper hand in a way.
Many workers over value, not only low end, automation is coming to higher end industries as well, but in the meantime many of those jobs are important, such as food supply chains.

Over simplistic. What’s more oversimplistic than this?

Higher Pay -> Happier/More Productive Employees -> Higher Quality Goods/Services -> More customers and better customer loyalty -> Higher Profits

I know it’s cliche,but by your logic, why not pay them a 1000 an hour? Higher pay solves all problems apparently.

And the question remains, where is the money going to come from? Higher wages is not a guarantee your sales will soar

 

[Chankoras]

Over simplistic. What’s more oversimplistic than this?

Disagree? Am I wrong?

 

[RPS37]

Update: I quit.

 

[GeorgPrime]

Update: I quit.

Feeling better now?

 

[I_D]

Because the benchmark companies used in every wage fight war is Walmart and McDonalds. Two of the biggest companies in the world.

So every numb nut thinks if Wally and Micky D's can bump up wages $1.50/hr and still be profitable, every other business can too no problem.

Businesses should be making significantly more money than paying workers could ever possibly make a dent in. Any business which is already not stable enough to do this likely won't last much longer anyway, regardless of how much it pays its workers.

Raising Billy's salary from $10/hr to $11/hr is only an $8 difference per day.
Raising the whole day's crew's salary by a dollar per hour is probably less than a $100 difference.

If a business can't afford an extra eight bucks per worker, it's not going to last very long.

 

[Ionian]

Businesses should be making significantly more money than paying workers could ever possibly make a dent in. Any business which is already not stable enough to do this likely won't last much longer anyway, regardless of how much it pays its workers.

Raising Billy's salary from $10/hr to $11/hr is only an $8 difference per day.
Raising the whole day's crew's salary by a dollar per hour is probably less than a $100 difference.

If a business can't afford an extra eight bucks per worker, it's not going to last very long.

I remember one of my first jobs, working in a bar doing all the heavy lifting of kegs and bottles to stock it and wait tables, Got a massive £10 a night. Was one couple that always left me a pound and sure as fuck I was attentive to them. Still tried to shaft me on my last wage.

I called in sick (I was) but the bus stop to my missus was close to it. Was wearing combats and the stuttering idiot manager said he new I was in the FCA (Volunteer army). Some bastard barman told him he saw me waiting for a bus. I was heading to the mountains where she lived, not Iraq.

 

[RJMacready73]

Businesses should be making significantly more money than paying workers could ever possibly make a dent in. Any business which is already not stable enough to do this likely won't last much longer anyway, regardless of how much it pays its workers.

Raising Billy's salary from $10/hr to $11/hr is only an $8 difference per day.
Raising the whole day's crew's salary by a dollar per hour is probably less than a $100 difference.

If a business can't afford an extra eight bucks per worker, it's not going to last very long.

It's just pure greed, raising those wages won't bankrupt the company it cuts into the owners profits and that's the problem, running a few Ferrari's ain't cheap

 

[chromhound]

Restaurants are closing because of vaccine passport but some restaurants don't even check lol. Lack of employees doesn't help too

 

[PrimetimeKnight]

Lots of fast food places around me aren't exactly closing down but are running weird hours. A lot of them are closing down at 7pm and the Little Caesars just up the road is only open 3 days a week. This shit is getting ridiculous.

 

[mxbison]

Because the benchmark companies used in every wage fight war is Walmart and McDonalds. Two of the biggest companies in the world.

So every numb nut thinks if Wally and Micky D's can bump up wages $1.50/hr and still be profitable, every other business can too no problem.

If your business can't afford to pay someone $15/hr, it's shit and should close down anyway.

There is no lack of people willing to work. Only a lack of companies willing to pay properly.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Over simplistic. What’s more oversimplistic than this?
I know it’s cliche,but by your logic, why not pay them a 1000 an hour? Higher pay solves all problems apparently.

And the question remains, where is the money going to come from? Higher wages is not a guarantee your sales will soar

Higher wages= higher prices for the goods sold and possibly the company hiring fewer employees

 

[Cleared_Hot]

These low paying jobs are not meant to be career jobs, they're stepping stones to something better in life.

If you've been working at a minimum wage job for years and years, that isn't the systems fault, but more of a you proble

Businesses should be making significantly more money than paying workers could ever possibly make a dent in. Any business which is already not stable enough to do this likely won't last much longer anyway, regardless of how much it pays its workers.

Raising Billy's salary from $10/hr to $11/hr is only an $8 difference per day.
Raising the whole day's crew's salary by a dollar per hour is probably less than a $100 difference.

If a business can't afford an extra eight bucks per worker, it's not going to last very long.

So you own a business?

 

[AJUMP23]

There’s also the argument that higher wages are self-sustainable and just better for business.

Higher Pay -> Happier/More Productive Employees -> Higher Quality Goods/Services -> More customers and better customer loyalty -> Higher Profits

There is nothing in production that says paying people more makes them more productive, and makes good better. Consumer more often than not care more about what a good cost them, and not the quality. Quality is secondary. Producing a product as cheaply as possible. A low cost to market drives profit more than quality goods. Companies care about profits, they say they care about employees but they care more about profits.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Lots of fast food places around me aren't exactly closing down but are running weird hours. A lot of them are closing down at 7pm and the Little Caesars just up the road is only open 3 days a week. This shit is getting ridiculous.

Dude, the amount of places in big cities with insane waiting times is enough to make you never eat out. There are sooo many understaffed. People are too busy on Tik tok to find a job it seems. Because people are fucking hiring and nobody shows up

 

[QSD]

There is nothing in production that says paying people more makes them more productive, and makes good better. Consumer more often than not care more about what a good cost them, and not the quality. Quality is secondary. Producing a product as cheaply as possible. A low cost to market drives profit more than quality goods. Companies care about profits, they say they care about employees but they care more about profits.

One of the biggest hurdles toward a sustainable future IMHO is this tendency to produce everything cheaply, which leads to having to buy a replacement product every few years while the old product is trashed. We really really need to figure out how to monetize durable, lifetime guarantee products somehow

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If your business can't afford to pay someone $15/hr, it's shit and should close down anyway.

There is no lack of people willing to work. Only a lack of companies willing to pay properly.

If someone isnt a moron relying on burger flipping for 30 years trying to raise a family on it, he's an idiot and should brush up their skills.

There is no lack of businesses paying good money. Only a lack of people not smart enough to achieve better and dont deserve more than $12/hr.


In life, you got to put in some effort. Nobody ever said making french fries would guarantee making ends meet. It doesnt even make high school kids ends meet and they live at home with their parents getting free food and rent.

Its not even hard to get a half decent paying job. It's not like every person making the average $52,000 wage is a brainy go getter with an IQ of 140. You can get a job in a plant doing some blue collar roles or work at the office doing boring admin working with invoices and make $50k.

For all the coders out there making $100,000+, do you consider yourself to be ultra mensa members? Or simply, you put in some effort to do tech, gun for a hot paying industry and voila! Looks good.

I do finance staring at MS Excel all day slogging through emails and spreadsheets and make good money. I think I'm a decently smart guy but no valedictorian or mensa guy. I bet lots of people on this forum could do what I do. All you got to be is good with numbers, have some business experience, know how to use MS Office and be smart enough to learn corporate programs you'd never use at home like SAP and databases (that arent Access). Its actually not that hard. Do some analysis , make some decisions, do some approvals and when things go well everyone thinks youre the smartest guy all week. I'm not. I dont even have an accounting designation.

 

[mxbison]

If someone isnt a moron relying on burger flipping for 30 years trying to raise a family on it, he's an idiot and should brush up their skills.

There is no lack of businesses paying good money. Only a lack of people not smart enough to achieve better and dont deserve more than $12/hr.


In life, you got to put in some effort. Nobody ever said making french fries would guarantee making ends meet. It doesnt even make high school kids ends meet and they live at home with their parents getting free food and rent.

Its not even hard to get a half decent paying job. It's not like every person making the average $52,000 wage is a brainy go getter with an IQ of 140. You can get a job in a plant doing some blue collar roles or work at the office doing boring admin working with invoices and make $50k.

For all the coders out there making $100,000+, do you consider yourself to be ultra mensa members? Or simply, you put in some effort to do tech, gun for a hot paying industry and voila! Looks good.

I do finance staring at MS Excel all day slogging through emails and spreadsheets and make good money. I think I'm a decently smart guy but no valedictorian or mensa guy. I bet lots of people on this forum could do what I do. All you got to be is good with numbers, have some business experience, know how to use MS Office and be smart enough to learn corporate programs you'd never use at home like SAP and databases (that arent Access). Its actually not that hard. Do some analysis , make some decisions, do some approvals and when things go well everyone thinks youre the smartest guy all week. I'm not. I dont even have an accounting designation.

Your reasoning is that these jobs aren't supposed to be enough to make a living, while the companies earn massive profits which only increase every year?

Why would you defend them? Sounds straight up brainwashed.

And it's not just low level jobs paying shit, it also applies to jobs that require skills/experience/degrees. $52,000 isn't exactly hot either, good luck retiring at a somewhat reasonable age with that.

 

[PrimetimeKnight]

Dude, the amount of places in big cities with insane waiting times is enough to make you never eat out. There are sooo many understaffed. People are too busy on Tik tok to find a job it seems. Because people are fucking hiring and nobody shows up

What really baffles me is that this wasn't an issue pre-pandemic and all of a sudden no one wants to work anymore. Something about the pandemic made people lazy and now with federal unemployment bonuses gone in September its still not getting better. A lot of fast food places in my area are offering $15/hr and it still doesn't seem to be working.

I live in Michigan and the cost of living in my area isn't something I would consider very high compared to a lot of the country. I was never a big fan of the shutdown but its effects are even worse than I predicted and I am normally pretty pessimistic by nature to begin with.

 

[Davey Cakes]

It's kind of funny that people feel entitled to McDonald's at this point. Just because jobs exist, people should do them, right?

We've taken a lot for granted.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

If someone isnt a moron relying on burger flipping for 30 years trying to raise a family on it, he's an idiot and should brush up their skills.

There is no lack of businesses paying good money. Only a lack of people not smart enough to achieve better and dont deserve more than $12/hr.


In life, you got to put in some effort. Nobody ever said making french fries would guarantee making ends meet. It doesnt even make high school kids ends meet and they live at home with their parents getting free food and rent.

Its not even hard to get a half decent paying job. It's not like every person making the average $52,000 wage is a brainy go getter with an IQ of 140. You can get a job in a plant doing some blue collar roles or work at the office doing boring admin working with invoices and make $50k.

For all the coders out there making $100,000+, do you consider yourself to be ultra mensa members? Or simply, you put in some effort to do tech, gun for a hot paying industry and voila! Looks good.

I do finance staring at MS Excel all day slogging through emails and spreadsheets and make good money. I think I'm a decently smart guy but no valedictorian or mensa guy. I bet lots of people on this forum could do what I do. All you got to be is good with numbers, have some business experience, know how to use MS Office and be smart enough to learn corporate programs you'd never use at home like SAP and databases (that arent Access). Its actually not that hard. Do some analysis , make some decisions, do some approvals and when things go well everyone thinks youre the smartest guy all week. I'm not. I dont even have an accounting designation.

Hey, I never meet anyone else who uses SAP. Sounds like we are in similar lines of work.
i just hope you don't have to use P6.

 

[AJUMP23]

One of the biggest hurdles toward a sustainable future IMHO is this tendency to produce everything cheaply, which leads to having to buy a replacement product every few years while the old product is trashed. We really really need to figure out how to monetize durable, lifetime guarantee products somehow

Games as a service.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I live in a high COL area. Most places near me have functioned pretty well, except some of the low ball places like Taco Bell, Little Caesars, and a Cafe that has perpetually been hiring cooks for the last 4 years. McDonald's is paying over $18/hr starting.

I actually am suspicious that childcare is at the root of a lot of the worker shortage. The worker shortage is predominantly for female service workers; it's predominantly for lower wage workers [with the exception of nursing staff which is having issues due to travel nurses getting paid more than some physicians make]. In the face of the pandemic, and spiraling childcare costs, and the reliance on a dual household workforce in the United States, I think we're seeing an approach that shifts back more towards single income households because there isn't a cost benefit to having both parents working. In the long run, this won't matter. Automation is coming from our low wage workers, and RFID can eliminate the need for cashiers. We're at the base of a change in our our economy functions, and I won't be surprised if we have a UBI once more automation takes place.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Your reasoning is that these jobs aren't supposed to be enough to make a living, while the companies earn massive profits which only increase every year?

Why would you defend them? Sounds straight up brainwashed.

And it's not just low level jobs paying shit, it also applies to jobs that require skills/experience/degrees. $52,000 isn't exactly hot either, good luck retiring at a somewhat reasonable age with that.

I never said $52k was a hot salary. I'm just saying its the average pay.

And who ever said working a bad job or making $52k deserves an awesome retirement? Now if you want an awesome retirement wad of cash, you get a bettr paying job so you dont have to work or think about it.

In Canada when you turn 65, you get around $1000 or so per month for free already. You dont even have to work ever contributing to the pension fund. Everyone just gets it. So right there is $12k/yr in free cash. So man up and save for the rest. At 65 years old, the typical person has 40 years of work experience. Lots of time to make some money.

At my pace, my budget tracker says I'll retire worth about $3.5 - 4M if I work to 60. And there's no way I'm working past 60. And when I die, my will is going to disperse the funds to my nieces and nephews keeping the family tree with cash. Zero charity donations from me. And my siblings will probably do something similar and they got more more than do! All the kids are going to be loaded from us dead aunts and uncles!

Thats the way you keep a family tree loaded. Dont be an idiot. Work hard. Get paid and keep the money in the family. Haha.

Many of us are landlords too. Dont blame us. We just know how to make money. And if it's not for us, it's not like the condo maker is going to become a giant landlord conglomerate tracking 20,000 units and tenants. Almost all of them just build and sell and move on to a new development. And renters cant afford to buy. We can. My new property is up next year and its already worth a lot more than the starting value bought off the floorplan and I'm setting a juicy high rent day one.

 

[I_D]

So you own a business?

I have managed businesses before, yes.

I suspect they were not as successful as your strawman business, though.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

If someone isnt a moron relying on burger flipping for 30 years trying to raise a family on it, he's an idiot and should brush up their skills.

There is no lack of businesses paying good money. Only a lack of people not smart enough to achieve better and dont deserve more than $12/hr.


In life, you got to put in some effort. Nobody ever said making french fries would guarantee making ends meet. It doesnt even make high school kids ends meet and they live at home with their parents getting free food and rent.

The problem is as Jordan Peterson Points out the bell curve of IQ means there are tens of millions of americans with IQ so low they may have trouble even operating a cash register, they lack the intellect to do any complex work or get into any job with higher pay.

Its not even hard to get a half decent paying job. It's not like every person making the average $52,000 wage is a brainy go getter with an IQ of 140. You can get a job in a plant doing some blue collar roles or work at the office doing boring admin working with invoices and make $50k.

For all the coders out there making $100,000+, do you consider yourself to be ultra mensa members? Or simply, you put in some effort to do tech, gun for a hot paying industry and voila! Looks good.

I do finance staring at MS Excel all day slogging through emails and spreadsheets and make good money. I think I'm a decently smart guy but no valedictorian or mensa guy. I bet lots of people on this forum could do what I do. All you got to be is good with numbers, have some business experience, know how to use MS Office and be smart enough to learn corporate programs you'd never use at home like SAP and databases (that arent Access). Its actually not that hard. Do some analysis , make some decisions, do some approvals and when things go well everyone thinks youre the smartest guy all week. I'm not. I dont even have an accounting designation.

The problem is you don't realize there are tens of millions with very low IQ that are barely employable to do the simplest tasks.
3 min video

What really baffles me is that this wasn't an issue pre-pandemic and all of a sudden no one wants to work anymore. Something about the pandemic made people lazy and now with federal unemployment bonuses gone in September its still not getting better. A lot of fast food places in my area are offering $15/hr and it still doesn't seem to be working.

I live in Michigan and the cost of living in my area isn't something I would consider very high compared to a lot of the country. I was never a big fan of the shutdown but its effects are even worse than I predicted and I am normally pretty pessimistic by nature to begin with.

People were earning more while unemployed than when they were employed. Further they likely spent more time on the net, and found out people were making even bigger bucks with little effort.

 

[RPS37]

Feeling better now?

Much.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Lots of fast food places around me aren't exactly closing down but are running weird hours. A lot of them are closing down at 7pm and the Little Caesars just up the road is only open 3 days a week. This shit is getting ridiculous.

I can't stand dunkin donuts but several of them near me have severely reduced hours. Not open til 7 or 8.

I went into one two weeks ago to use a gift card and there was one woman working there. That was it.

 

[A.Romero]

So the problem with higher wages is burgers will be more expensive?

I don't get why people think you should be above average (in any sense) to be worthy of a comfortable retirement. Fuck that, everyone deserves to live. The system is flawed. Not saying we have experienced a better system in the past but we really need to try some other things. Inequality is at an all time high. There is enough for everyone, why not give more people access to a better life? Why do they have to be lucky or even determined to have to climb a bullshit corporate ladder to be able to afford healthcare and other basic stuff?

So we've seen the decline of communism. What if this is the decline of capitalism? I think we should challenge the status quo and look for better options. Humanity is way more advanced in many ways than in the past, why not push forward and look for new economic models as well?

I mean, I understand why people at the top are not really concerned by it but average people? Fuck, everyone should be jumping on that and pushing for change.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

I have managed businesses before, yes.

I suspect they were not as successful as your strawman business, though.

Manager equals owner now huh interesting

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I mean, I understand why people at the top are not really concerned by it but average people? Fuck, everyone should be jumping on that and pushing for change.

Because a lot of average people are scraping by and getting zero payouts or help.

Then people a rung or two down the ladder get boosts (or in the Musk/UN thread), some people advocating that poor people should get home subsidies or a free apartment to help them out.

So for many average living people, they are doing what they can and then some people doing worse get handouts and jump to the same level as them. Not really fair.

It's like the argument that some people have to keep paying off student loans because they hit a certain low threshold to keep paying. Then some guy worse off gets it waived with a clean slate.

So how can anyone tell the guy who has to keep paying rent or student loan to keep paying like a good honest citizen and then some guy below him gets free boosts?

 

[I_D]

Manager equals owner now huh interesting

You do know that many people who own businesses don't actually run those businesses, right? I was in charge of handling any and all money that went in or out of the business. Call it whatever you like; I was in charge of paying people and buying items. I was the guy who decided how much money employees get paid.

What is the point of your strawman, again?

 

[Enjay]

What is the point of your strawman, again?

Feels like the point of this whole thread is for everyone to try and convince everyone else that they're successful at... things.

 

[DeafTourette]

Because a lot of average people are scraping by and getting zero payouts or help.

Then people a rung or two down the ladder get boosts (or in the Musk/UN thread), some people advocating that poor people should get home subsidies or a free apartment to help them out.

So for many average living people, they are doing what they can and then some people doing worse get handouts and jump to the same level as them. Not really fair.

It's like the argument that some people have to keep paying off student loans because they hit a certain low threshold to keep paying. Then some guy worse off gets it waived with a clean slate.

So how can anyone tell the guy who has to keep paying rent or student loan to keep paying like a good honest citizen and then some guy below him gets free boosts?

The average person scraping by would get helped by subsidies as well. It's more fair than the current state.

But since the BBB bill was gutted, any changes are temporary.

Until the people in charge start to care about the people more than corporate donors, the average person and below will continue to suffer.


Unless you're talking about some Canadian thing.

 

[QSD]

I never said $52k was a hot salary. I'm just saying its the average pay.

And who ever said working a bad job or making $52k deserves an awesome retirement? Now if you want an awesome retirement wad of cash, you get a bettr paying job so you dont have to work or think about it.

In Canada when you turn 65, you get around $1000 or so per month for free already. You dont even have to work ever contributing to the pension fund. Everyone just gets it. So right there is $12k/yr in free cash. So man up and save for the rest. At 65 years old, the typical person has 40 years of work experience. Lots of time to make some money.

At my pace, my budget tracker says I'll retire worth about $3.5 - 4M if I work to 60. And there's no way I'm working past 60. And when I die, my will is going to disperse the funds to my nieces and nephews keeping the family tree with cash. Zero charity donations from me. And my siblings will probably do something similar and they got more more than do! All the kids are going to be loaded from us dead aunts and uncles!

LOL weren't we talking in the Elon Musk thread about how American pride contribute to a culture of violence by being too proud and parading around their wealth...? And here you are with an ehm, somewhat obnoxious post blathering on about how much money you have...? Give it a rest, hombre.

Thats the way you keep a family tree loaded. Dont be an idiot. Work hard. Get paid and keep the money in the family. Haha.

My mum worked HARD all her life as a nurse, and now has to undergo an operation (one of many) to fix her herniated back which (if unsuccesful) will end her up in a wheelchair. Hard work doesn't always pay off man, sometimes it just fucks you up and leaves you with scraps.

Many of us are landlords too. Dont blame us. We just know how to make money. And if it's not for us, it's not like the condo maker is going to become a giant landlord conglomerate tracking 20,000 units and tenants. Almost all of them just build and sell and move on to a new development. And renters cant afford to buy. We can. My new property is up next year and its already worth a lot more than the starting value bought off the floorplan and I'm setting a juicy high rent day one.

Houses are for living in, not for making money off of, certainly not now when so many (at least in my own country) are struggling to find any affordable place for their family to live. You fattening your "family tree" has the unfortunate side effect of stripping the tree of another family free of leaves, and that's something you can be blamed for.

 

[Ionian]

There is nothing in production that says paying people more makes them more productive, and makes good better. Consumer more often than not care more about what a good cost them, and not the quality. Quality is secondary. Producing a product as cheaply as possible. A low cost to market drives profit more than quality goods. Companies care about profits, they say they care about employees but they care more about profits.

Sorry dude but can't agree with you here considering China exports.

Might die from a charger a slave built? Might explode when asleep and set your place on fire?

Most of the workers are farmland slaves trying to provide for their family.

Does Apple pay for their suicide when they jump off a balcony? Nah. It's why they put in nets to stop it.

In summary; fuck Applefans. Bloody hypocrites,

 

[A.Romero]

Because a lot of average people are scraping by and getting zero payouts or help.

Then people a rung or two down the ladder get boosts (or in the Musk/UN thread), some people advocating that poor people should get home subsidies or a free apartment to help them out.

So for many average living people, they are doing what they can and then some people doing worse get handouts and jump to the same level as them. Not really fair.

It's like the argument that some people have to keep paying off student loans because they hit a certain low threshold to keep paying. Then some guy worse off gets it waived with a clean slate.

So how can anyone tell the guy who has to keep paying rent or student loan to keep paying like a good honest citizen and then some guy below him gets free boosts?

Problem is that there always need to be a cut off. If the average people are not OK with that level they should be pushing so the average people gets benefits too, not screwing the ones at the bottom.

Why is it considered to be fair that some people grow in rich families and don't have to fight for anything? Is pretty much the same, a lot of the people are born in worse conditions than the average person, keeping them down does absolutely nothing to benefit the average person. Surviving should not be a competition in this day and age.

By the way, keeping people out of the street and out of bankruptcy does have a positive impact for the economy and does represent a benefit for the average person.

 

[Nester99]

^^^
Life has never been and never will be “fair” what is this shit?

play the hand you are dealt the best you can with hard work and harder thinking. Try and create a better hand to be dealt to your offspring.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

But since the BBB bill was gutted, any changes are temporary.

Until the people in charge start to care about the people more than corporate donors, the average person and below will continue to suffer.

BBB was that the 3+ Trillion bill?

My mum worked HARD all her life as a nurse, and now has to undergo an operation (one of many) to fix her herniated back which (if unsuccesful) will end her up in a wheelchair. Hard work doesn't always pay off man, sometimes it just fucks you up and leaves you with scraps.

The problem is that they never teach about investing in the school system. Even small contributions can turn into millions of dollars if given several decades.

 

[DeafTourette]

BBB was that the 3+ Trillion bill?

The problem is that they never teach about investing in the school system. Even small contributions can turn into millions of dollars if given several decades.

Well, it was the 10 trillion bill... Then the 6 trillion bill... Then the 3.5 trillion bill... Now it's the 1.7 trillion bill...

A certain senator said he was constantly compromising but the bill doesn't reflect that... It was a certain wing of a certain party that was doing all the compromising...

But that's as far into "poli" that I'm gonna go. I like being on here. Not going any further.

 

[Fare thee well]

Tons, yea. I live in an area where there are more unique restaurants than chains, so it's especially heartbreaking to see some go.

We had one amazing wings-styled restaurant, but the supply of meat has really crashed.

 

[Lognor]

Yeah, I've been seeing it to recently. I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts the other week and was sitting in the drive thru for 5 minutes waiting for someone to take my order before I gave up and drove around to the front to see they had a sign on the door saying they were closed that day because of a lack of staffing. And the Starbucks near me just changed their hours for the same reason. Gotta pay people more though if you want them to come work for you. The antiwork subreddit is my new favorite sub. Some of these managers and owners are out of their fucking minds.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

You do know that many people who own businesses don't actually run those businesses, right? I was in charge of handling any and all money that went in or out of the business. Call it whatever you like; I was in charge of paying people and buying items. I was the guy who decided how much money employees get paid.

What is the point of your strawman, again?

So you never owned a business got it thanks.

 

[Haint]

The average person scraping by would get helped by subsidies as well. It's more fair than the current state.

But since the BBB bill was gutted, any changes are temporary.

Until the people in charge start to care about the people more than corporate donors, the average person and below will continue to suffer.


Unless you're talking about some Canadian thing.

There were no meaningful benefits or subsidies for any of the middle classes excepting those with passels of kids, which to Beige's point, does nothing but screw the people who were responsible enough not to shit out a bunch of kids they couldn't afford, or who already suffered for 18-25 years to raise theirs. What's worse, it actually sought to give objectively Elite class households obscene handouts. How the fuck does someone making $300-400K/year need up to $8600/per kid in child tax credits and day care subsidies? Middle class households would not benefit from the ACA/Medicaid expansion, they don't give a fuck about clean energy, they don't want to give a bunch of corrupt politicians and their developer/real estate buddies trillions of dollars to build a million free inner city homes, and they don't want jobs building Solar Panels or Wind Farm Turbines in Foxconn plants for 12 hours a day.

 

[RPS37]

 

[DeafTourette]

Is that satire? Because the disparity...

 

[Punished Miku]

IHopefully this leads to greater unionization, and even more "radical" ideas like employee profit sharing or partial ownership. We're coming off 40 years of destroying labor, shipping jobs overseas for leverage, cutting government benefits, all while the ownership class' wealth has skyrocketed. Just in the last year, the amount of money transferred is unfathomable. There's more than enough wealth to improve the lives of everyone, and I think people know it. Everyone can make enough to live with some basic comforts and dignity, or we can watch Bezos send another celebrity into space.